Mission 774 arm rewire

[Bigman80]

Hi,

Had a few spare hours this evening so I thought I'd have a go at rewiring my spare wand.

Never done it before so it's a maiden voyage into the unknown

I'll keep it short but sweet

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160203/94473bfdf7c46f025db32d092040c5cb.jpg

Popped the sticker off with a sharp Stanley blade
Mhttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160203/da9bb81b72a6b134a23c37cf02fa9e80.jpg

Removed old wiring and fished an on guitar string through.

Made a hook at the end then soldered the new wires together at on end

Pulled the new wire through

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160203/29a7184373d177a050994ffb5cddcdd3.jpg

Colour coded them with felt pens. 99.9999% silver in silk.

Added some Cardas cartridge clips

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160203/005da871c27c6dbb904434601a99aa11.jpg

Fished the earth wire to the headshell

Terminated the other ends into the 4 pin connector

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160203/cb44a947626d8dd809d07f7a753a8cf5.jpg

I connected the ground to the r- wire as the original wiring diagram shows. Didn't have enough wire to go to the base plate which is a shame

Still need to connect the earth/ground at the headshell and put the sticker back on.

If this works it'll be a miracle lol

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160203/385ee624f03e7c0724e22aef2018bf31.jpg

Enjoyed trying though.

[Bigman80]

Should mention, I flat braided the wire because I had no ability to litz braid. [emoji1]

[walpurgis]

There are arguments that any cable/wiring weave should be pretty random and somewhat loose and that anything looking like a tidy braid is not the way to go. Check it out.

[Oldpinkman]

If this thread had existed 2 years ago life could have been so different. I took mine to a friend to do and ended up with a funk f5 instead because he had no time, and found aos googling for information about the f5.

Actually, having written that, I'm being daft. Without failing to rewire a 774 I would never have discovered hifi forums :scratch:

[Bigman80]

There are arguments that any cable/wiring weave should be pretty random and somewhat loose and that anything looking like a tidy braid is not the way to go. Check it out.

I've seen a few pages worth of info on braids. One says don't flat braid, one says dont litz braid and others say it should or shouldn't be braided at all. The braid is only from the tube exit to plug so if it isn't right or sounds poor it can all be undone or redone or shielded etc. Very much a suck-it-and-see type of situation.

[Bigman80]

If this thread had existed 2 years ago life could have been so different. I took mine to a friend to do and ended up with a funk f5 instead because he had no time, and found aos googling for information about the f5.

Actually, having written that, I'm being daft. Without failing to rewire a 774 I would never have discovered hifi forums :scratch:

F5, from what I've read, is a fantastic arm but I've taken what dowser did on pink fish forum. I only attempted this because of the thread he put on there.

It's all about sharing !!! [emoji1]

[Oldpinkman]

Oh don't get me wrong - I was very happy with the F5 and even more so the opportunity to upgrade to FXR. If not I would have insisted on getting my 774 back and finding someone else to rewire it. Might even have found your thread and given it a go (things moved slowly back then)

But the 774 is a class act, well worth rewiring and keeping if you don't have a lazy (busy) mate with F5's to give away ;).

I used mine for around 15 years, and it has no faults in my view. Just a few things can be done a bit better by more costly arms.

:cool:

[Bigman80]

I love it so far. A very solid, tight and full of good tone. Not getting the best out of it yet but hopefully the new cartridges will be here soon !!!!! Looking forward to trying the rewired wand out too, providing I can finish it today......

[Bigman80]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160204/cc70639ddc80ac654d781f0e4c3a95f9.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160204/5ecf71f37772281accd1436791b431cb.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160204/0279a6c1f21144d010a9c0137d4080f1.jpg

So the arm is done, on and sounding ridiculously good. I may have soldered R+ and L+ onto the wrong pin but that's an easy fix

I have to say the Shure M75ej now sounds rather good

Shimmering cymbals and the bass in now kicking the speakers off the wall. Can't believe the difference in clarity and space.

It's a massive difference compared to the stock wiring. Need to do the other one now !

[walpurgis]

All coming along famously then Oli. Looks good! :)

Here's a tip. Look out for a genuine NOS Shure M75ED II stylus (if you can find one) or the Jico equivalent. I can't speak for the Jico item, as I've not used one, but the reports on these are very favourable. With the M75ED II stylus there'll be a noticeable step up in sound quality, with more detail depth and clarity and likely better tracking. The tracking downforce is lower too. It's a straight swap for the EJ item.

[Firebottle]

Good one!

(no hum then :sofa:)

[struth]

Just from his feet:D

[Bigman80]

All isn't quite tickety boo.

I've been playing for an hour or so and sonically it's beautiful. I was changing a record and when I switched the TT back on I noticed a microscopic buzz. I turned it off and it stopped. Back on and it was there again. I believe I'm picking up a electro-magnetic signal (< that might be nonsense.)

I touched the wiring towards the clip and a massive crackling came through the speakers.

I believe this may be down to the braiding. I don't think the silk is insulating the wire enough to be braided

Also as its a single wire (not stranded) I'm meeting a small amount of resistance from the arm movement. It won't stay where I put it when cueing.

Going to remove the braid and see what that does.

[Bigman80]

All coming along famously then Oli. Looks good! :)

Here's a tip. Look out for a genuine NOS Shure M75ED II stylus (if you can find one) or the Jico equivalent. I can't speak for the Jico item, as I've not used one, but the reports on these are very favourable. With the M75ED II stylus there'll be a noticeable step up in sound quality, with more detail depth and clarity and likely better tracking. The tracking downforce is lower too. It's a straight swap for the EJ item.

Great tip, I've set up a saved search alert on eBay and Google. [emoji106]

[Oldpinkman]

All isn't quite tickety boo.

.

I knew there was a reason I took mine to Arthur - and it wasn't the speedy turnaround :)

[dowser]

Nice work. Is it stiff wire then? Can't remember the stuff I used, cheap stuff off eBay, but very flexible. If the silk is not insulating properly then I'd be cautious regardless of whether you braid or not - I note you have not re-inserted rubber protection tube at pivot end arm cable exit, if insulation is not good it will almost certainly short at that point at some time.

With regard to setup - I found using a longer pivot to needle distance than standard gave better alignment of the cartridge.

[walpurgis]

All isn't quite tickety boo.

I've been playing for an hour or so and sonically it's beautiful. I was changing a record and when I switched the TT back on I noticed a microscopic buzz. I turned it off and it stopped. Back on and it was there again. I believe I'm picking up a electro-magnetic signal (< that might be nonsense.)

I touched the wiring towards the clip and a massive crackling came through the speakers.

I believe this may be down to the braiding. I don't think the silk is insulating the wire enough to be braided

Also as its a single wire (not stranded) I'm meeting a small amount of resistance from the arm movement. It won't stay where I put it when cueing.

Going to remove the braid and see what that does.

The braiding makes the combined wires stiffer. Undo it and try gently coiling the wires as per original wiring. That should do the trick.

If there was no crackle or buzz before, something has changed. Are your tags still tight on the pins? I hate those type of tags by the way. I bought a set of these to go on mine (still to do). http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-Silver-Plated-1-20-mm-Cartridge-Wires-Tags-Clips-For-Turntable-Headshell-/331416292313?hash=item4d29f34bd9:g:PGgAAOSw7ThUjtP r

[walpurgis]

Take a look at this picture of my TT. You should just about be able to make out the way I've coiled the wires at the back.

http://i68.tinypic.com/3096hhv.jpg

[Bigman80]

There wasn't a rubber insulator on that wand, i did notice that id probably need one but as it was a first time effort i wasnt overly concerned. The silk isnt isolating as well as maybe silicon etc would.

I believe the braiding has stiffened the wire considerably so i shall unwind it and try to match what you've done Geoff.

[Bigman80]

I'm sure Arthur's the muts but for guys like me, DIY is affordable and brings an enjoyment to the sound knowing that I'VE done that rewire...... That said, I'll probably send the other one away to be done lol. One thing is for certain.....I'm not going back to copper !!


I knew there was a reason I took mine to Arthur - and it wasn't the speedy turnaround :)

[walpurgis]

The silk isnt isolating as well as maybe silicon etc would.

The silk covering should be fine as long as it's treated gently.

[walpurgis]

If you want to protect the wires where they pass though openings in the tube. You could try coating the silk on each wire at that point with a very thin layer of clear silicone sealant and allowing it to dry before putting the wires back in position. The sealant should be hardly noticeable once dry. The £1 shops sell it in small tubes.

[Bigman80]

thats not a bad idea !

I forgot to mention that im not pleased with the Cartridge CLips either, I have the type Geoff mentiond but theyre gold. I'll put them on when i get 5

[Bigman80]

Looks like the Ground has come off in the headshell. Annoying little bleeder. Soldering in the arm tube appears impossible. Any suggestions ?

[danilo]

Shame that,.. Not surprising though.
I've had carts lose their wiring connections to the pins . Even had pins come off in my fingers. Some fun :-)
Also the wee clips that slip onto Cart pins are imo Crap. Had bespoke silver ones .. once... they fared no better than Cheap Ass gold plated ones, once they saw their 3rd B'day.
IF serious... solder those wires on ;)
Also found that recycled deceased/outdated Mouse wires... Yup :-) Are pretty darned good wires.. when all is said and done.
Silver aficionados ignored.

[dowser]

Looks like the Ground has come off in the headshell. Annoying little bleeder. Soldering in the arm tube appears impossible. Any suggestions ?

There was an eBay seller offering new wands as a worst case. There should be a pin in the headshell to solder to from memory - if that's gone, is there a hole there? Try and get a tight fit pin into it if yes, and a very hot soldering iron...although you may end up damaging external paint.

[Bigman80]

No pin unfortunately. As I tried to get the arm tube hot enough to solder, the glue? Around the head (hard to explain) started to bubble. I can understand why the guy before glued it down !

I'll try to post a pic shortly.

Any link to the new wand guy ?

Any suggestions for a new pin material ?

[Firebottle]

Maybe an off field suggestion. At the head where the wire was originally crimped under the end of the tube - scrape some paint off then attach the wire with some conductive paint, the type that is used to repair car rear screen demister tracks.

[Ali Tait]

Scrape some paint off where the wand is clamped to the base of the arm. That'll ground the wand and you won't need the wire.

[walpurgis]

If you're a bit handy and careful, connecting an earth should not be too much of a challenge. Personally, I'd pull the label off again drill a small hole into the front of the head block, poke a wire with the end stripped of insulation in and wedge it in the hole with a short piece of copper, aluminium or brass rod, If necessary file a small groove to recess the wire behind the label first.

[Bigman80]

Three very different suggestions there. I will have a think and update accordingly

[Ali Tait]

Are you getting any hum?

If not, just leave it disconnected.

[Bigman80]

no hum but there is a slight buzz ( very feint ) especially audible through earphones. Its also quite sensitive to touch so i get a buzz when i touch the head/cartridge

[Bigman80]

Thinking slightly outside of the box.......what about a piece of cork, wedged in and holding the ground in place a bit like how the rega is done ?

[Bigman80]

Also slightly unrelated ive just bought this for the second wand......

https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/superflex.htm

All the way from Y'america !!!

WIll take a bit longer over this one and wire it as closely to the original design as possible.

Pics and such to go with it !

[walpurgis]

Thinking slightly outside of the box.......what about a piece of cork, wedged in and holding the ground in place a bit like how the rega is done ?

That could be OK. Why not use a small silicone rubber stopper. Less likely to eventually compress and loosen as cork can. You might find something suitable under laboratory equipment on eBay.

[Bigman80]

I like it !!!! I'll have a look. Might mould my own !

[Bigman80]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160215/7ec7a6bf5ab73e2c24388eb59f3c0f3a.jpg

These arrived from KAB in the old USA today

Superflex copper wire for my original wand.

Ready to do my second ever arm rewire now !!!!

I'll put some pics on as I go along. Going to keep this one wired as close to the original wiring as possible.

[walpurgis]

'Practise makes perfect' mate (hopefully :D ;))

[Bigman80]

'Practise makes perfect' mate (hopefully :D ;))

Hopefully !!!!

Very excited about these superflex wires.

Will they be better than the silvers ????

[walpurgis]

Keep us posted.

[Bigman80]

Will do

[Bigman80]

Thought I'd make a start since I'm up with the kids !!!!

Removed the original wiring and sticker

There is a welcome sight, a brass pin !!!

I tried to keep the yellow ground attached but as I realised previously, the old wiring is quite brittle. So all new wiring it is. As stated I'm going to keep this one as original as possible so looks like I'm twisting the wire all through the wand too.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160216/f5974e985b4fee3ae1297dd7d909014a.jpg

[Bigman80]

Quick pic so I remember which way round the wires go. Got this wrong when I did the silver wire !!!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160216/d0968cb8640b9be71976cdf8e840c8a1.jpg

[DSJR]

Were these pipes hollow then? I could have sworn being told they were foam filled.

My 774 was selected from the very first production batch and collected from Farad's Kensignton pad (twelve arms for us, twelve for Knightsbridge Audio) - we were so self-important back then :rolleyes: I know the arm changed a bit over it's life with more carefully set bearings, better finish and lastly, the heavy thick exit cable that killed it on an LP12 - the better made Ittok had come along by then so attention diverted :(

Old wiring apart, it's nice that this arm was before its time in many ways, as the decks it was fitted to weren't as advanced as today. I remember being stunned by an AT95E in one, fitted to a Systemdek III - that bloody cartridge has been around too long for many of you to take notice, so you mess around with antique M55E's instead, but believe me, one day you'll actually hear one in a proper deck and then realise what I'm going on about :lol:

M75-EJ? Are you chaps serious? :eek: - Yes, I have the identical (internally) M93-E - bloody awful thing, tried and abandoned it not long ago, thumpy bass and dull as ditchwater - obsolete even when the 774 came out... SURELY you can find something better than that to use? An SAS stylus should help sort things out..

P.S. The heatshrink actually went into the arm wiring-hole to help stop chaffing and in a way added some strength too. that wire you have, if I recognise it correctly, is all too easily damaged. maybe I'd look out for the pre-woven Cardas stuff. Not many cartridges are wired with silver, so a half metre of stranded copper shouldn't make any difference.

[Bigman80]

Were these pipes hollow then? I could have sworn being told they were foam filled.

My 774 was selected from the very first production batch and collected from Farad's Kensignton pad (twelve arms for us, twelve for Knightsbridge Audio) - we were so self-important back then :rolleyes: I know the arm changed a bit over it's life with more carefully set bearings, better finish and lastly, the heavy thick exit cable that killed it on an LP12 - the better made Ittok had come along by then so attention diverted :(

Old wiring apart, it's nice that this arm was before its time in many ways, as the decks it was fitted to weren't as advanced as today. I remember being stunned by an AT95E in one, fitted to a Systemdek III - that bloody cartridge has been around too long for many of you to take notice, so you mess around with antique M55E's instead, but believe me, one day you'll actually hear one in a proper deck and then realise what I'm going on about :lol:

LOL, i know what youre saying about an AT95e i had one fitted to my old Sony ps-x70. It sounded tremendous. I have read that if you fit the SAS needle its a real world beater but i opted to go for an Acutex 410e which hasn't disappointed to be honest. In fact at £45 for two (yes two) they are probably my favorite cart so far and i have owned a few budget to higher priced budget carts.

Both of my Wands are hollow. There is a difference between the two though. What i believe to be the original wand that came with the sme plate etc has a brass pin for earthing purposes and there is a definite difference in the finish too. The OG is a thicker finish. the other wand may be a later or after market version but its finish is thinner and there is no brass pin so grounding was difficult.

[Ali Tait]

Be interesting if you can hear any difference in the wiring, still deciding what to rewire mine with.

[Bigman80]

Be interesting if you can hear any difference in the wiring, still deciding what to rewire mine with.

I'm hoping for a more transparent sound with the Superflex compared to the original wiring which sounded very heavy and dark.

The silver wire I used was mind blowing in comparison to the original wiring. Clarity, deep deep bass and shimmering treble. I'm really impressed with it. If the Superflex gets close to that, I'll be happy. The silver wire cost £12 and the copper has cost £25 but £12 of that is postage from USA

[struth]

Were these pipes hollow then? I could have sworn being told they were foam filled.

My 774 was selected from the very first production batch and collected from Farad's Kensignton pad (twelve arms for us, twelve for Knightsbridge Audio) - we were so self-important back then :rolleyes: I know the arm changed a bit over it's life with more carefully set bearings, better finish and lastly, the heavy thick exit cable that killed it on an LP12 - the better made Ittok had come along by then so attention diverted :(

Old wiring apart, it's nice that this arm was before its time in many ways, as the decks it was fitted to weren't as advanced as today. I remember being stunned by an AT95E in one, fitted to a Systemdek III - that bloody cartridge has been around too long for many of you to take notice, so you mess around with antique M55E's instead, but believe me, one day you'll actually hear one in a proper deck and then realise what I'm going on about :lol:

M75-EJ? Are you chaps serious? :eek: - Yes, I have the identical (internally) M93-E - bloody awful thing, tried and abandoned it not long ago, thumpy bass and dull as ditchwater - obsolete even when the 774 came out... SURELY you can find something better than that to use? An SAS stylus should help sort things out..

P.S. The heatshrink actually went into the arm wiring-hole to help stop chaffing and in a way added some strength too. that wire you have, if I recognise it correctly, is all too easily damaged. maybe I'd look out for the pre-woven Cardas stuff. Not many cartridges are wired with silver, so a half metre of stranded copper shouldn't make any difference.

Got one(at95) with a jico shibata in it and its incredibly good.... But dont knock a 55e. On a nice dd deck it sounds rather good...surprisingly good actually..

[Bigman80]

Got one(at95) with a jico shibata in it and its incredibly good.... But dont knock a 55e. On a nice dd deck it sounds rather good...surprisingly good actually..

I gave away my M75EJ. It really paled in comparison to the acutex. To the point where I knew I'd never use the Shure again.

[Bigman80]

P.S. The heatshrink actually went into the arm wiring-hole to help stop chaffing and in a way added some strength too. that wire you have, if I recognise it correctly, is all too easily damaged. maybe I'd look out for the pre-woven Cardas stuff. Not many cartridges are wired with silver, so a half metre of stranded copper shouldn't make any difference.[/QUOTE]

It is delicate stuff and over handling would cause problem but so far other than the braiding causing resistance to arm cuing it hasn't been a problem.

The Superflex does look quite delicate to but I'm assured by KAB that's it's tougher than it looks.

We shall see. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

[struth]

Lol.. I sold the acutex i had AFTER i got a 55e.:eyebrows: tbf to acutex i had only tested it with a couple of tracks to make sure it worked then reboxed it.. My mc is gathering dust at moment

[Bigman80]

Lol.. I sold the acutex i had AFTER i got a 55e.:eyebrows: tbf to acutex i had only tested it with a couple of tracks to make sure it worked then reboxed it.. My mc is gathering dust at moment

Lol hmmm

The acutex is a bit harsh at first but one it settles down its a great performer. Never tried a mc so maybe that's next on the list with a Firebottle phono stage.

[Ali Tait]

I'm hoping for a more transparent sound with the Superflex compared to the original wiring which sounded very heavy and dark.

The silver wire I used was mind blowing in comparison to the original wiring. Clarity, deep deep bass and shimmering treble. I'm really impressed with it. If the Superflex gets close to that, I'll be happy. The silver wire cost £12 and the copper has cost £25 but £12 of that is postage from USA

Interesting you note such a difference. Sounds like silver is the way to go, particularly as I'm using a Yannis silver i/c cable.

[Bigman80]

Silver all through would be the nutz. Silver cartridge clips, ic's etc. It was night and dAy difference. It made the Shure (that I previously disliked) sound good. I wanted to give silver a try and I'm not disappointed. If I were to do it again I wouldn't braid it. It's single strand so braided it becomes quite strong. I'd avoid the silk wrapped stuff to as I found it unpleasant to work with but my skills are at beginner level. Someone with experience may offer a different experience ?

[Bigman80]

All the wires are in. I usually go for a single wire at a time but this stuff so soft the draw wire marked the surface of the silicone insulation so if you use Superflex I'd go for all four at once. I did the last three in one go to prevent any damage.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160216/03fa3ce5a04ad6be38f33e4b4ae583cd.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160216/1a84cbbae1917c5facc9f9339f5c84ed.jpg
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http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160216/6d227af8cf03baa06c8ef01748aa118f.jpg

At the point where I need to pull a ground wire through then it's on to soldering the cart clips on and soldering the ground on to the brass pin

The rubber sheath that went into the arm disintegrated as I tried to remove it so it looks like I'm going to have to wedge some heat shrink in to protect the wires.

[Bigman80]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160216/38f1781a57f9aeacbf8e673566d81a70.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160216/7fea4d836eaae5ee3e9d0885bfd28ac9.jpg

Heat shrink is wedged into the wand with a larger diameter piece around the entry preventing it getting pull into the wand. Still need to do the cartridge end but it's going well. [emoji3]

[dowser]

Umm - does the 5th earth wire not need to stay in tube at headshell end and be soldered to the pin? :)

[Bigman80]

Umm - does the 5th earth wire not need to stay in tube at headshell end and be soldered to the pin? :)

The ground (black) is soldered to the brass pin then attaches to the cartridges ground pin. It's only a couple of inches but that's how the original was done.

Black wire will be twisted together with the blue and both will connect with the Left - on the cartridge. The ground then runs through the left - as is the case with rega arms. Original wiring diagram confirms this is how the 774 is done.

[Bigman80]

Cartridge clips are on and looking tidy.

Not sure if you can see but the black wire is soldered to the brass pin.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160216/4b727839a95c29abc62b738c5694f9bb.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160216/574e329d989554b3de82e3b153ea7eaa.jpg

[dowser]

The ground (black) is soldered to the brass pin then attaches to the cartridges ground pin. It's only a couple of inches but that's how the original was done.

Black wire will be twisted together with the blue and both will connect with the Left - on the cartridge. The ground then runs through the left - as is the case with rega arms. Original wiring diagram confirms this is how the 774 is done.

OK - I think mine had earth lead running all way back to red connector, but maybe mine wasn't original. Job looks good :)

[Ali Tait]

It's a common mod done on these.

[Bigman80]

Yep. Did that on the silver wired wand.

All went well until I attached a cartridge. Got buzzing noise and when I checked the connections I Pulled a cartridges clip off doh !

Got the multimeter on it and I don't seem to have any conductivity on the blue wire (carries the ground and L-) I will investigate further tomorrow. At work early so best get some rest !

[Bigman80]

So back to it

Tested again today with the multimeter after a bit of soldering and BOOM conductivity is excellent. Reattached the cartridge clip to the L+ and plugged it all in.

NO BUZZ !!!! Lol.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160217/631f821778a7033078cf4a4137af9b95.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160217/66968abba7a06aa1c9a5a2646b87f233.jpg

As you can see from the pics, I've only lightly twisted the "loom" to keep them together and everything works a treat.

Had a listen to a couple of songs I know well and had a compare to the silver wired wand.

The sound is more............warm? Less blunt? I'm not really sure how to explain it but it's not as sharp or clinical as the silver wire. There is a definite advantage in midrange over the silver wire but at this point I'm swaying toward the silver as my favourite. This is not to say the KAB copper is bad. In fact if this had been the first upgrade is have been bowled over with the performance over the stock wiring. I'd go as far as saying it's the best copper wire I've heard. I've had Cardas copper installed on a rega and whether it's the arm or the wire it just doesn't compare to the KAB/Mission combo.

£25 for two feet of wire posted from the US and it arrived within 8 days. Great to work with and had no issue with damaging them. Very light and flexible as the name suggests.

[walpurgis]

Good work. And you can now alter the tonal balance a bit to suit different cartridges.

[Bigman80]

Yep. I've put the silver one away lol. The copper one seems to have opened up a bit and I've lightened it from 2g to 1.8g. Sounds a lot better now

[Bigman80]

Good work. And you can now alter the tonal balance a bit to suit different cartridges.

Thanks [emoji4]

[Bigman80]

Disaster !!!!!!!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/5662ca5430802f0cdb68987bc579f380.jpg

Swapping cartridges and the head sheared off

Had to drill through. I'm absolutely gutted.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/297171fcb73aaf1ba7222442309e4087.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160221/2be8ea38b77ceb9ebc5dc08e3184ca1c.jpg

I'm that gutted I'm thinking of selling the whole lot. Arm And Turntable.

[karma67]

bugger,a shame that,but alot of people have drilled through as the thread in the block is imperial, i wouldn't have been so hasty and tried to remove the remainder of the bolt first.

[walpurgis]

Never mind mate. You'll find an arm that's drilled through can be handy. It's certainly not worth losing heart over. Anyway, the odd spare arm wand comes up for sale and you can grab that if need be.

[Bigman80]

bugger,a shame that,but alot of people have drilled through as the thread in the block is imperial, i wouldn't have been so hasty and tried to remove the remainder of the bolt first.

I did try ! Not got the most precise tools at my disposal but it wasn't budging. The thread on that wand wasn't very good to be honest. Seemed to have been cross threaded at some point so I should've expected it.

[Bigman80]

To be honest I used a 3mm drill bit and 2.5mm bolts so that little bit of play in the holes has allowed me to align the cartridge slightly better. The other wand I have is still in original condition so all is not lost.

[Ali Tait]

Makes it more useable, you can mount any cartridge now.

[Bigman80]

True. Sure there was a 2m blue for sale lol

[mikeyb]

True. Sure there was a 2m blue for sale lol
mmmmm I wonder who's selling that [emoji57]

[Ali Tait]

Plus, you can now add a fingerlift if you wish.

[Bigman80]

mmmmm I wonder who's selling that [emoji57]

Haha. Can't afford it at the minute but I'd have been on it if I could

[Bigman80]

Plus, you can now add a fingerlift if you wish.

Hmmmm I like that idea.

[walpurgis]

You now have an arm that is perfect for use with good MCs or even a Decca, so why mess about with 'budget' MMs like the 2M Blue? Put your pennies aside and get 'the real thing'! :)

[Ali Tait]

This is the one I used-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-ject-Project-Debut-III-Replacement-Tonearm-Lift-/390923492363?hash=item5b04db1c0b

[walpurgis]

Plus, you can now add a fingerlift if you wish.

I do the opposite and remove them from my arms where I can. They resonate and add colourations.

[Ali Tait]

Can't say I hear any difference.

[Bigman80]

You now have an arm that is perfect for use with good MCs or even a Decca, so why mess about with 'budget' MMs like the 2M Blue? Put your pennies aside and get 'the real thing'! :)

It's not just getting a MC cart. I'd need either a phono stage for MC or SUT. Would I need a new amp?. Is a NAD 312 good enough for a Decca cart ??? Then there is the £100 speakers I'm using. The 4mm speaker wire I got cheap off eBay ???? Will they get the best performance from the cart ???

It's a big jump in quality and price and I don't have the budget.

A 2m blue (new) is out of my range at the minute ! so I'm always lurking at the bargain barrel end of the scale. When funds improve id like to upgrade most of the components except TT obviously.

Of course, if you'd like to lend me one to see if the gear I have would be sufficient?? I'd be open to the idea lol [emoji1]

[Bigman80]

Just done a quick search for a decca cart and a amp that has a MC stage (cheaper than a phono stage ?) £500 ! I suppose when you look at it if you spent on the 2m blue that's a fifth of the money. Still I don't have £50 let alone £500 !

[walpurgis]

You don't need an MC stage for a Decca. It works into an MM stage. So do high output MCs. The better the phono stage, the better the sound obviously. :)

[walpurgis]

Now, it's not for me to tell you what to buy. But, if I wanted a lucid, transparent, dynamic and highly musical amp that offers twice the power of your NAD and includes an excellent phono stage for peanuts money, I'd get this Denon: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?43067-Few-items

I've had a few of these and they are astonishingly good! If you didn't see it driving the system, you'd think you were listening to a £1000 worth of amp. :)

[Bigman80]

Ooooooo denon. I'm a bit unsure of going to an amp that doesn't have tone controls ? Is that ridiculous?

Didn't know decca could run through MM stage ! That is interesting. So HOMC carts or a Decca. Maybe a denon amp too. Best get some extra days at work !!!

[karma67]

If you go for the demon amp make sure the phono stage is working as it was an optional extra at the time of manufacturing.

[Bigman80]

If you go for the demon amp make sure the phono stage is working as it was an optional extra at the time of manufacturing.

Ok. Thanks. Do I need to worry about tone control ????

[Ali Tait]

Nah.

[walpurgis]

Ok. Thanks. Do I need to worry about tone control ????

No. If the rest of your gear is well chosen, you should get a nice big sound from the Denon.

[Bigman80]

Ok. how exactly do I choose well. I've only ever picked up bargains so I've never matched a system. I presume denon carts would work well with a denon amp ???

[karma67]

Ok. Thanks. Do I need to worry about tone control ????

Nope I have them turned off as well

[Bigman80]

Nope I have them turned off as well

Oh ok. Just tried that with my NAD. sounded pants lol

[Ali Tait]

Try it like that for a week, then see if you prefer it the original way or not.

[walpurgis]

I haven't used 'tone controls' for over thirty years. There haven't been any on my gear and I wouldn't buy an amp with them.

[walpurgis]

I presume denon carts would work well with a denon amp ???

High output MC types like the DL-110 will.

[Bigman80]

Challenge accepted. Just turned them off. Won't switch them back on for a week and see what I think

I may look into the denon combo in a few weeks.....when I've tried the NAD with tone defeat for a week or so

[Bigman80]

Ok. I get it. No colouration. As it was recorded and nothing else is the aim. [emoji106]

[karma67]

Oh ok. Just tried that with my NAD. sounded pants lol
My first amp sounded pants as well,I always liked full treble on the controls, it wasn't until I bought my Sony 700es that it sounded good with deafeat on. Now I can't bear full treble :)

[Bigman80]

My first amp sounded pants as well,I always liked full treble on the controls, it wasn't until I bought my Sony 700es that it sounded good with deafeat on. Now I can't bear full treble :)

Yep that's what I find with the NAD. I like the treble up a bit. Gives it some space between instruments. All seems a bit close now.