View Full Version : A bloody cable.
sq225917
03-02-2016, 21:10
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1506/24799914225_848e35bfb4_b.jpg
Oh i understand the irony.
A steel cored, copper clad, silver plated central conductor in a miniature coax intended for RF duties in the MHZ range. Married up to solid silver pinned KLE RCA sockets and liberally sprinkled with a heavy dose of N52 Neodymium magnetism. It doesn't sound like anything else I've ever heard, you could swear it was pushing the signal into my amp rather than just letting it find its own way there.
The joy and vivacity of the thing..
Is this something you've made, Simon? If so, out of interest, how much was the cable itself? :)
Marco.
sq225917
03-02-2016, 21:58
I didn't make it
Thats about the thickness of the dig stuff Geoff makes, which is very good.
I didn't make it
Who did, then? What exactly is it made of? Where can you buy the cable itself? How much does it cost...?
Can we have some more info, please, otherwise threads like this simply smack of: 'oh look at what I've got, isn't it wonderful?', and lacks both substance or having potential benefit for anyone else other than the OP. As such, it's not a proper review, or something members could potentially gain from.
Ta! :cool:
Marco.
sq225917
03-02-2016, 22:59
I don't know what the cable is beyond the description I gave. They are something mark has been working on
I don't know what the cable is beyond the description I gave. They are something mark has been working on
Ok Simon. Please re-read what you posted.
Then what Marco posted.
Mark who?
Ok, ta. Then perhaps Mark can supply answers to the questions asked?
No offence, but you see what I mean, don't you... What's the point mentioning something that no-one other than the person who owns it/built it knows anything about, and can benefit from?
The whole point of Strokes of Genius, or indeed any recommendations made on AoS, is that what's reviewed by someone, can also be bought and/or made by other members, hence why we need more info! :)
Otherwise it's just a meaningless exercise in ego-stroking. Sorry....
Marco.
Ok Simon. Please re-read what you posted.
Then what Marco posted.
Mark who?
Hi Steve,
He'll be talking about Mark (YNWaN). It's all rather vague, though....
Marco.
Ali Tait
03-02-2016, 23:40
SLIC anyone? :lol:
Spectral Morn
04-02-2016, 00:02
Tripped over some slippery conjecture and ribbing about this 'elsewhere'. The gist of that was that these are heavily influenced by ideas embodied in High Fidelity Cables products.
More I can't say, but I agree with Marco, Strokes of Genius is supposed to be the place where fully formed, illustrated reviews are posted. Not exactly like magazine reviews, but at least more than a few words and a picture.
Indeed, and it should *always* be something that other folks can either buy or make themselves, and therefore FULL details should be provided by the OP, in order to facilitate that.
There's nothing worse than reading about something that's (supposedly) great, but that you can't get, because its details are 'cloaked in secrecy', or the item in question is only for the use of a select few! :doh:
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
04-02-2016, 00:59
:popcorn:
It's not a very helpful opening gambit for sure
Firebottle
04-02-2016, 06:16
A steel cored, copper clad, silver plated central conductor in a miniature coax intended for RF duties in the MHZ range. .
Sounds and looks like the cable is RG-316, similar to that used in the Sound Cord.
;)
sq225917
04-02-2016, 08:45
That sounds like the stuff. I genuinely don't know what the cable is, here's a fuller review- from the other place.
"'I'm loathe to say this but these do sound significantly different to my Blue Jeans LC1 cables.
I left them on all last night between dac and amp and then plugged them into my Paradise and settled down for a few hours of listening before doing some back to back. It's all sighted, so all biased and utterly unscientific.
I'm not sure which wire Mark has sourced for these but I believe it to be one that he looked hard and long to find. It's a strange combinations of materials and features. It's essentially a steel cored, copper clad, silver plated, miniature coax with an extruded FEP sleeve.It's intended for microwave duties so the steel core doesn't matter to them as skin effects all but completely takes over for its intended duties. For our purposes the steel core acts a magnetically permeable conductor onto which magnets can be attached in such a way that one end of the cable becomes magnetically saturated.
Now Mark didn''t come up with the concept of magnetic plugs, the whole cable is basically a functional work-around of the uber expensive cable brand that's doing the round, they use magnetic centre pins to achieve much the same effect- though they don't to my knowledge use magnetically permeable signal wire, so in that respect I believe this cable implementation is unique. Originally Mark had built two sets of identical cables, one with magnets and one without. They were identical in every way except the magnets, even down to using the criminally poorly built and massively quality variable, cheap Neutrik RCA plugs. These were awful, so sharp that they gouged my silver RCA sockets. They really have no place in hifi. For my cables we chose to use the new KLE Pure plugs. These are the latest Keith Eichmann designs and I selected the versions with solid silver centre pins and solid silver ground pins. They are plastic bodied and large enough inside to accommodate a series of N45 Neodymium ring magnets that polarise the conductor in the wires at one end.
I must say Mark has made a lovely job of soldering them up. I'm the most anal soldering guy in the world- a joint can never be too neatly flowed for me and all excess solder is the Devil's work. (The only thing I hate more than excess solder is hot glue!) Anyway, the plugs are neatly finished they apply a nice even pressure to the RAC sockets when I plug them in and the grommet on the back of the sockets looks like it was made solely to be used with this thin, metal cored, RF miniature co-ax cable. It really is lovely cable I'm surprised it doesn't get used more often.
I settled down with a selection of my favourite and best known test tracks and let rip. Initially I was somewhat disappointed with the sound I thought it a little reticent and hollow sounding, thinned around the edges and suffering perhaps form a frequency imbalance that sucked a little of the life out of the music. It seemed tonally bleached and dynamically stifled. Confused by what I was hearing vs what I'd heard previously from Mark's earlier samples I got up and swapped the cables round so that they were now magnet ends at the amp, rather than at the phono stage side. I sat back down and was presented with a totally rejuvenated sound. The presence was back, the mid-hall seat position was gone. Dynamically the whole thing was sharpened with greater attack and bite to sounds and a seamless sense of musicality that was starkly at odds with the sound of the previous orientation.
I'm actually pretty much an anti-cable guy, certainly I don't come within a hundred miles of being a 'cables are directional' guy buy for me these are breaking new ground and sweeping away my expectations. It's fair to say that they are bringing me closer to the music and enhancing my enjoyment; not just of the test tracks I sat down to listen to but everything I've placed since. From Mingus, to Mazzy Star, Go-Go Penguin to penguin Cafe Orchestra, they're an absolute revelation. My preconceptions of how things sound and what effect cables can have on the quality and enjoyment of music replay in the home have been well and truly smashed. I couldn't have imagined that my my pretty hard line objectivist viewpoint could have been so resolutely turned around.
When i get the time I shall investigate them further with the benefit of double blind testing, until then I'm going to sit back and thoroughly enjoy these simple and quite unique cables."
I'm sure Mark (Ynwan) will be only too happy to make a set up for anyone who wants a set. I might even put these out into the field as a loaner pair.
Ok, now we're getting somewhere. However:
That sounds like the stuff. I genuinely don't know what the cable is, here's a fuller review- from the other place.
Which "other place"? Why not just spit it out! ;)
Now Mark didn''t come up with the concept of magnetic plugs, the whole cable is basically a functional work-around of the uber expensive cable brand that's doing the round...
Again, I have no idea what you're referring to... Which "expensive cable brand", "doing the round" where exactly?? The above presumes that folks here are 'in the know', when that's not automatically the case.
I'm sure Mark (Ynwan) will be only too happy to make a set up for anyone who wants a set. I might even put these out into the field as a loaner pair.
That sounds good. However, you'd need to confirm the former with Mark, before doing the latter. Otherwise there's no point.
In future though, Simon, it would be best if you refrained from posting reviews like this until you have all relevant and necessary information about the product being reviewed, and were a little less vague about that.
Cheers :cool:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
04-02-2016, 09:49
The cable review comes from the audioflat forum run by Mark.
Ah, right... Why didn't Simon just say that in the first place! :doh:
It's not somewhere I look at very often (almost never), so would have no idea about what's being discussed. Ok, so which cable is he referring to as the "uber expensive cable brand that's doing the round"?
Marco.
Quote Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
A steel cored, copper clad, silver plated central conductor in a miniature coax intended for RF duties in the MHZ range. .
Sounds and looks like the cable is RG-316, similar to that used in the Sound Cord.
Sounds like something you hold up the Forth road bridge with
Is the "uber expensive cable brand that's doing the round" something from NVA?
Marco.
The 'other place' that Si refers to is the AudioFlat Forum (which is indeed partly run by me) and I did indeed make this cable. The uber expensive cable brand referred to is also High Fidelity Cables* and this is an experiment to investigate the USP of this brand - specifically the application of magnets and a magnetic field to the cable. The HFC's do have some patents associated with them but this is not a commercial product and no patent has been infringed as the magnetic field is applied in a slightly different manner to that cited. The cable is a form of RG-316 which suits this application because of the makeup of the central conductor. I've only made a few of these so far but I do have two cables identical other than the application of the magnets and it is from comparing these that Si decided he would like a set. As Si suggests, I could make these up for others if requested to do so (time permitting as they are a bit fiddly). There's no great mystery to any of this, there's quite a big thread regarding it on the AF forum.
* not the most imaginative name but that's what the company is called: http://www.highfidelitycables.com/
They gone up market?;)
Someone Said sound cord so i guess it could be... As i say, try geoffs stuff if youve not done so.. Its wierd stuff but sounds bloody good with decent gear
Thanks for the clarification, Mark. If only we'd been told all of that in the first place. Never presume that what you consider as 'common knowledge' is actually such for everyone else... That one's for Simon ;)
There's no great mystery to any of this, there's quite a big thread regarding it on the AF forum
Indeed, presuming that is, one reads AF. Unfortunately, these days, I only get time to follow what happens here, and occasionally a look at pfm.
Anyway, I shall follow developments with interest. So how much are we talking about for you to supply and make up, say, a 1m pair, fitted with the same plugs as yours have? :)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
04-02-2016, 10:17
I think The other cable Simon is referring to is the high fidelity magnetic cable although I could be wrong.
Yes, he's just confirmed that. I'd never heard of it before, or indeed was aware of any 'big discussion' of it elsewhere.
For those interested, the discussion concerned (and original review from the OP) can be found here: http://www.audioflat.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=539&start=120
Marco.
Indeed, presuming that is, one reads AF. Unfortunately, these days, I only get time to follow what happens here, and occasionally a look at pfm.
Yes I appreciate that, I'm just saying that it's not a 'secret' thing sprung from nowhere.
Anyway, I shall follow developments with interest. So how much are we talking about for you to supply and make up, say, a 1m pair, fitted with the same plugs as yours have?
It depends is the unintentionally vague answer - my preferred RCA plugs are the KLE ones and they start at £45 for four. Then there are the rare earth magnets and it depends how many of those one chooses (just working on that now) - the cable itself is the least expensive bit. Si's cable would be about £150 but that uses Pure Harmony version of the KLE plugs and they are well up the price range. One made up with the Copper Harmony plugs would be more like £100.
Ok, no worries. So, to the most pertinent piece of information folks, interested in trying these cables, will want to know:
...how much are we talking about for you to supply and make up, say, a 1m pair, fitted with the same plugs as yours have? :)
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Marco.
Scratch that. I've just noticed that you've included your reply in the text you've quoted from me (above), accredited to my name, which is why I didn't see it...
Ok, I'll sort it out, so as to make things clear:
It depends is the unintentionally vague answer - my preferred RCA plugs are the KLE ones and they start at £45 for four. Then there are the rare earth magnets and it depends how many of those one chooses (just working on that now) - the cable itself is the least expensive bit. Si's cable would be about £150 but that uses Pure Harmony version of the KLE plugs and they are well up the price range. One made up with the Copper Harmony plugs would be more like £100.
Cheers! :thumbsup:
Seems decent value for the (claimed) performance on offer.
Marco.
Oh yes, sorry about that, I was distracted - error has been corrected.
Conversely, one might simply punch the BIN button on these http://www.highfidelitycables.com/products/adapters/rca/
Retaining the use of ones current RCA cables of choice!
Yes, though that would cost $550.00 for one set of cables and of course there would be import duty to pay on that and HFC don't start using rare earth magnets till the $5K per metre level!
If you read the HFC patent application it is somewhat odd to see that these adaptors have been produced as they do rather contradict some of the ideas hypothesised in said application.
I would be grateful for a link to the HFC patent application document as It was my understanding that rare earth magnets are utilized within the barrel RCA body of all the range, from CT-1 upwards, the 5k and upwards range buys you ever more and larger magnets contained within the large cylindrical 'wave guide' situated betwix the RCA's.
I'm sure there is a link to the patent application in my AF forum thread (I don't have it to immediate hand I'm afraid). The patent doesn't cover specific cables in the range though, it's a more conceptual document than that. If you look at the manufacturers website they specifically state about the 'CT-1 Ultimate' (third in the range) "The magnetic technology found in the connectors is more powerful than those in the CT-1 and CT-1E" (though that could well mean that there are just more magnets used than in the cheaper options). They do also include mid-cable 'wave guides'.
A reasonable summary of the construction of the entry level CT-1 and CT-1E cables. As per my last, the 5k and upward cables in the range utilize a midway array of ever stronger RE magnets contained within increasingly larger wave guide cylinders that enhance the effect of the rare earth mags contained within the barrel of all the RCA cables in the range.
From Stereo Times.
"Rick Schultz holds a patent for a “Magnetically Enhanced Electrical Signal Conduction Apparatus and Methods,” or what he describes as “magnetic conduction.” There are both magnetic as well as conductive paths for the signal to pass through the cables. The magnetics make the signal with its full resolution flow more easily through the system. One sees a coaxial, silver colored cable with unusually long RCA plugs. Both ends have different pole magnets, which are part of the secret of the design. If you look closely, you will also notice that the center pin of the RCA has a bulge at the top, which assures a tight fit into the RCA jack. This is called a “PinLok.” The conductor itself uses a proprietary highly permeable alloy (mostly known as “Mu metal”) and is integral to the patent, as it is connects to the PinLoks at either end. There is no long linear crystal silver or gold wire in these cables."
Yes I quite accept that the more expensive cables have further magnets mid length. I've not tried this yet but will be doing so shortly.
HFC have obviously invested significantly in the production of custom cable and connectors. What I have done is not a copy but it is a reasonable analogue of the theory and does use components that comply with the suggested theory.
It would appear that there is a dealer representing these cables in the UK, perhaps they have a demo cable available for comparison purposes ?
sq225917
04-02-2016, 18:42
Yeh, because that's in his best interests. I can see Lotus falling all over himself to have his multi-thousand pound cables bested by ten minutes with a soldering iron and some rinky dinky magnets.
I've actually had a friend come round with one of the cables, the CT-1E; the plugs on them are ridiculously tight.
Yeh, because that's in his best interests. I can see Lotus falling all over himself to have his multi-thousand pound cables bested by ten minutes with a soldering iron and some rinky dinky magnets.
Firstly, How would said dealer become aware?
Secondly, Even were he to be aware I would imagine that the dealer would have enough confidence in his product to be unconcerned, It is hardly an unusual circumstance that a dealers wares are to be compared with the incumbent equipment of an potential customer!
Thirdly, Unless you have personal experience of the retail cables how can you possibly comment upon the efficacy of that cable in comparison with the DiY version?
Fourthly, You come across as a Tad defensive! For some reason known only to yourself.
jandl100
04-02-2016, 20:48
Mark - if you wanted another opinion on the cables you could always send a pair my way! ;)
Ah yes, good idea, consider it done mate.
I'll send you my 'with and without' comparison sets :).
jandl100
05-02-2016, 05:53
Yay. :)
brian2957
05-02-2016, 08:17
Don't get if you don't ask :lol: These sound promising :)
jandl100
05-02-2016, 08:18
Don't get if you don't ask :lol: These sound promising :)
Exactly my thinking. :D
Blueflash
05-02-2016, 08:50
It is worth looking at what is available cable wise, at the RG179 small diameter 2.5 -3 mm cables.
They all seem to be silver plated steel or copper. Some have used them in analogue interconnects with great success :-)
sq225917
05-02-2016, 09:14
Roger, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet with me, this thread, I shall refrain from replying to you any further.
Roger, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet with me, this thread, I shall refrain from replying to you any further.
Absolutely not the case Simon, I have no recollection of any prior communication with you. Perhaps upon reflection of your post, and points 1-3 that I made in response, I would hope that you might recognise the validity of those points, as for point 4, It was not my intent to transgress the spirit of the thread, merely to point out a number of misconceptions being made regarding the construction and design of the High Fidelity RCA, In that regard I felt that the tenor of your response was seemingly out of proportion.
Floyddroid
05-02-2016, 12:06
I have a drawer full of cables some smooth some bright. Some bass heavy some not. The better ones are the ones without a dealer weighted price tag on them. Cryo, magnets, bullets.... where does it end? Ssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Wakefield Turntables
05-02-2016, 17:04
I have a drawer full of cables some smooth some bright. Some bass heavy some not. The better ones are the ones without a dealer weighted price tag on them. Cryo, magnets, bullets.... where does it end? Ssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Some people just like to experiment and see it as part of the hobby. Some people like to collect rare vinyl and arn't too bothered about the equipment. Horses for courses really.
brian2957
05-02-2016, 18:54
Good point , I experiment regularly with new cables and plugs .
Wakefield Turntables
05-02-2016, 18:58
I'm more into the vinyl aspect of things now but I still like to tinker, I'm interested in how these cables pan out. I've had a few sets of IC's over the years and I've been lucky enough to see an improvement every time I've swapped.
As long as it doesnt infringe any patents then its going to happen that folk copy the basics of an idea. Dunno if the will be of benefit but as someone said, if folk didnt experiment then new cables like Brian's Klotz wouldnt have come out for the members. Personally I prefer the vinyl ;)
It is worth looking at what is available cable wise, at the RG179 small diameter 2.5 -3 mm cables.
They all seem to be silver plated steel or copper. Some have used them in analogue interconnects with great success :-)
RG316 cable is not the only cable that uses a stainless steel inner core. Both RG174 (50 Ohm) and RG179 (75 Ohm) cables also have a steel inner core.
I have used cables made from RG174 connected between the phonostage and preamplifier to good effect (but then I'm AoS's resident cable sceptic!).
The patent is surprisingly specific which is unusual as they usually try to cover every possible permutation and/or possibility. No infringement is being made in this case but as it is not a commercial product it is a moot point anyway.
The patent is surprisingly specific which is unusual as they usually try to cover every possible permutation and/or possibility. No infringement is being made in this case but as it is not a commercial product it is a mute point anyway.
But your reply (post #27), suggests you might be offering to manufacture and sell something similar, if not a clone/copy, following ideas covered by a patent.
As you have suggested a price, it would be seen as a commercial product.
Ali Tait
05-02-2016, 19:54
Moot. :-)
Stratmangler
05-02-2016, 23:38
Moot
As in them moot swans? :ner:
Yes, moot.
I only mentioned a price because Marco asked specifically. However, as I wrote earlier, it makes no difference either way.
I've now posted the cables off to Jerry - two identical sets except that one has the added magnets (same cable, same plugs, same solder, made up in the same way. same length etc.); I look forward to reading his views.
This is all a bit of fun to experiment with the unusual ideas proposed by HFC.
tubehunter
06-02-2016, 12:29
happen to be making some cables up with rg142 and noticed this thread.
are the magnets these or similar
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-Pack-N48-Neodymium-Cylinder-Disc-Magnet-23mm-dia-x-20mm-Central-Hole-6mm-Hole-/221622076806
i'm going try some anyhow
happy days
Not actually those but similar, smaller inner diameter hole (3mm). In my case there are five at each end (but I'm about to experiment with more).
I'm a bit confused. Are we putting magnets on cables now? Or affecting them with magnets in some way?
Have we decided upon the benefits of this or has the bus left and I wasn't on it?
Lol... Well, much like with the Slic fiasco, I think I'm going to bypass this particular 'bus', as I'm happy with my MC-5000s, and generally prefer to use broadcast-type/studio cables, as I like their simple, 'no nonsense' nature, and the 'transparent sound' that they generally produce.
Having said that, I've got some Sommer cables, on the way, from CageyH, which I'm going to try, and then compare with the Klotz, but that's about as far as I'm planning on going with cables. At some point, you have to put all the faffing around to bed, select something you like, then call it a 'done deal' and just enjoy the music! ;)
Good luck though, to all who try and enjoy using this "bloody cable" :)
Marco.
You can try the A/B pair after Jerry if you like Marco - it's not a 'closed shop' thing, nor is it a product launch. It's intended as an interesting experiment to look at the ideas hypothesised by High Fidelity Cables and see if there is any justification in them. Those who have heard the experimental sets so far seem to believe something is going on which in itself is interesting.
I don't know which bit is confusing Rich as such, I thought it was reasonably clear what was being done. On the thread you linked to it's all explained in black and white, there's no magic mirrors or secret potions. I don't know what 'bus' you are both referring to either - is it the one to the Wam show ;)? Anyway, I've ordered some more cable and magnets and am intending to make up another cable to try but with more magnets - so I'm still enjoying my bus ride. To be honest, I rather wish Si had never started this thread. Frankly the suggestion that this is related in any way to the Slick fiasco is rather insulting. That was a £500 product wrapped in secrecy. This isn't a product and all the information needed to build ones own has been openly supplied from the outset (assuming people bother to read it). I made up A and B samples for myself and loaned them to some friends (not members of AoS but then, rather like you, I have a life outside of this forum). Si tried them and asked if I would make him some so I did - that's it.
There are a number of posts on this thread that seem to look down on 'faffing about' (as you put it) and seek to remind us that 'it's all about the music' as if to do so is to claim some sort of higher ground. Obviously it's about the music - surely that doesn't need stating; but as this is a hi-fi forum it's hardly surprising that hi-fi is also 'what it's about' - the two aren't mutually exclusive. If one isn't interested in experimenting and 'faffing' then you just need a 'music' section and a 'what I'm thinking of buying' and 'what I've just bought' section.
You can try the A/B pair after Jerry if you like Marco - it's not a 'closed shop' thing, nor is it a product launch.
Sure, if someone wants to send me some, then go ahead - I'll have a listen to anything... I'm a bit of a 'tart', that way! :D
Marco.
Perhaps you will find yourself 'faffed out' after your Sommer experience.
Lol... Who knows? Only one way to find out, I guess? :)
Marco.
eisenach
06-02-2016, 18:30
I tried some Sommer cables and they killed the sound stone dead. Flat as a pancake !
sq225917
06-02-2016, 19:27
I found the Sommer cables cables had a lighter, warmer tone, with more brightly lit highs.
Or was that summer.
Very droll! :D :doh:
Marco.
I tried some Sommer cables and they killed the sound stone dead. Flat as a pancake !
Ha - ok, we'll see what happens here, then! There are, of course, many different ones....
Marco.
tubehunter
06-02-2016, 19:43
Just thinking
Axially magnetised or diametrically magnetized and why?
eisenach
06-02-2016, 20:50
I found the Sommer cables cables had a lighter, warmer tone, with more brightly lit highs.
Or was that summer.
Same thing, of course, if you're a German speaker. ... and they are German, I think ! :)
sq225917
06-02-2016, 21:00
In marks cables the conductors run through ring magnets, each has a N/S pole on either face, so they are through magnetized, hence you can stack em with no issues. The magnets are effectively slide on as a stack of ten, then split in half with five pushed towards each plug. SO the tip of one plug is N the other S.
Curiously I'm listening to a lot of jazz this week, not sure what's going on here...
Mmm - that's rather worrying... Panic, when you start developing a penchant for bri nylon pants.
Marco.
At some point, you have to put all the faffing around to bed, select something you like, then call it a 'done deal' and just enjoy the music! ;)
Amen 😃
sq225917
07-02-2016, 14:48
When I 'start' ?
Lol....
Btw, I should point out that I'm not against experimenting with stuff (heaven forbid, I do it all the time myself), and reporting the results here. Indeed, I would seek to encourage such activity; merely stating that messing around with cables is no longer where 'my head is at', as it were.
Quite simply, because there is such a huge multitude of different cables around to choose from, I feel that it's dangerous getting too obsessed or bogged down with the 'what if?/grass is always greener' demon, unless you want to spend more time (yes, 'faffing around') with cables, than listening to music! ;)
That's not to denigrate worthwhile and valuable experimentation, for those of a mind to do so, but simply to say that, in my view, with cable selection, it's best to try and put the matter to bed as early in your 'hi-fi journey' as possible, lest it becomes an unhealthy obsession, and in turn causes more system dissatisfaction, than satisfaction :)
Marco.
sq225917
07-02-2016, 18:46
Yeh, it's a late resurgence for me. i was never a big cable guy, and for the past 8 years they haven't figured on the radar at all.
wow bugger wow bugger bugger .........thats turned 20 years of cable making on its head. I've had a 2500m spool of 2.5 mm spccs coax in the loft for several years ....initially tried as an ic but was not impressed. So having read this thread I ordered a set of magnets and built a pair of ic's ... As you can see my initial impression are relatively positive. Thanks a bunch [said with irony]
now try increasing the flux density .........
British high fidelity
04-03-2016, 11:21
And then turn up the flux capacitor and hit 88mph and let me know what year you end up in
Do you remember Virtual Dynamics cables, that was Rick S as well magnets we are used in a very similar vien
Yes, I do have a recollection of Virtual Dynamics. Wasn't there a bit of fuss around them being hose pipe and vastly over priced for the components used? I didn't realise he was doing the magnet thing then too - do you have any further details?
Edit: Ah, I've found this from Stereotimes:
Schultz found that by passing the conductor through the center of a powerful Neodymium magnet designed at both ends of the Master Series cables, the sound became faster, livelier and more transparent..
Mark
There are quite a few cables in the US using magnets in various locations and guises even one which keep the conductors apart with magnetic force using air as the dielectric that sounded quite something to.
Nothing new here just trying to look for a different spin on the same theme imho
Does it work, as I can say is they produce a sound which is very distinctive, again purely down to individual preference
Now where did my coopers pair go?
Well that is interesting and possibly explains why the HFC patent is so specific (others may have patents on alternative geometries/applications).
I was intrigued by the idea that magnets should do anything at all and so made up these experimental cables. What's even more intriguing is that they should have any effect on a copper cable rather than a steel cored one.
So, am I right in understanding that you think the magnets do do something to the sound (irrespective of whether that something is good or bad).
If you have any links to designs that use magnets I would be very interested.
krugdoktor
09-03-2016, 11:01
Interesting reading (and not very encouraging!)
http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-159#vQRTZAzBGzHxJD9W.97
Yes, I've seen that - as you say, not very encouraging :).
Wasnt the clearest conclusion ive read:scratch:
Spectral Morn
09-03-2016, 14:24
Wasnt the clearest conclusion ive read:scratch:
No it wasn't + quick plugging in and out goes against the way the cables work - would have been better to plug in leave with a signal playing for a day then listen to them, then remove, and try then.
Have to say despite liking Art's writing last wee while I think he isn't up to snuff, this review and the Oracle review are....well..... below par.
I quite like his conclusion which I interpreted as 'makes very little difference and what difference I did hear I didn't like' - I don't particularly rate him as a reviewer though.
And then turn up the flux capacitor and hit 88mph and let me know what year you end up in
yes and yes ...oh but you've no idea are we to assume you've made yourself a set or are we poking fun from a position of ignorance ...just asking !
Spectral Morn
09-03-2016, 14:40
I quite like his conclusion which I interpreted as 'makes very little difference and what difference I did hear I didn't like' - I don't particularly rate him as a reviewer though.
I think his methodology let the review down and I suspect has effected the conclusion. I could be wrong, it could be even in an ideal situation the result would be the same, but if the transformer coupling means its not compatible then all it says is it doesn't work with his pre - that's it. He should have tried it with some other gear, and run in.
I've some similar sized silverplated copper coax ....I'll knock up a set with and without and see if theres any effect .
Well the core of the cable I used wasn't copper and specifically because it wouldn't otherwise comply with the specs of the HFC patent. Please do experiment or just poke fun - either is fine.
tubehunter
10-03-2016, 17:30
Well it's been awhile for me to see if these cables I made up with the neodymium rare earth magnets fitted work.
I had been using some homemade silver interconnects which I've been happy with for the last 10 years. I'm not really a cable guy but I do believe everyone finds the right cable for themselves that fits in with there own system.
I find the initial response is right ok is that it.
But if after awhile you go back to your standard cables you really feel something is missing and you need to re install.
Hard to quantify, I really like what they do.
Happy Days
Does not the manufacturer state that his products need several hours, undisturbed in situ, for the magnetic affect to implement as designed ? Certainly not your usual plug, evaluate, swap, repeat, topology cables, the reviewer would seem to have employed just such a methodology!
Well that is interesting and possibly explains why the HFC patent is so specific (others may have patents on alternative geometries/applications).
I was intrigued by the idea that magnets should do anything at all and so made up these experimental cables. What's even more intriguing is that they should have any effect on a copper cable rather than a steel cored one.
So, am I right in understanding that you think the magnets do do something to the sound (irrespective of whether that something is good or bad).
Hi Mark
From the experiences we have logged over the years from various different sources and products I would suggest that magnets may well have some form of an effect, though the variables are large from cable material, dielectric, length of material proximity to other electronic equipment, size and shape of magnetic field, where the magnetic force is applied on the cable.
Hypothesis for you, depending on the type of cable, intensity of the signal passing through it it will generate a magnetic flux of its own, again at varying intensities *possibly* the external magnetic force you are applying may manipulate the MF that is present in the cable while in operation, again all pure conjecture
Borrow a Gauss meter as well makes for very interesting head scratching!
Though will cables be debated with the same ferocious vigor when the nano-carbon tubes become available at sensible pricing?
Answers on a postcard to Caltech/MIT/Imperial Collage, now did I put my Robin hood outfit :scratch:
walpurgis
10-03-2016, 18:01
Does not the manufacturer state that his products need several hours, undisturbed in situ, for the magnetic affect to implement as designed ?
Would there be a point in doing this anyway? The molecular structure of the metals will not change regardless of what magnets are used or where and the flowing electrical signal will vary anyway and disappear when turned off, not hanging around for magnets to work anything on. Or are we looking at something at the quantum level?
I would think a Densen disc kinda does this to your whole system cheaply . just saying like :D
Would there be a point in doing this anyway? The molecular structure of the metals will not change regardless of what magnets are used or where and the flowing electrical signal will vary anyway and disappear when turned off, not hanging around for magnets to work anything on. Or are we looking at something at the quantum level?
The point I was attempting to make W, is that it would appear that the reviewer did not conduct his testing methodology in line with the manufacturers design ethos or instruction.
walpurgis
10-03-2016, 18:26
Ah. I was asking about the product rather than the review. :)
Spectral Morn
10-03-2016, 20:28
Does not the manufacturer state that his products need several hours, undisturbed in situ, for the magnetic affect to implement as designed ? Certainly not your usual plug, evaluate, swap, repeat, topology cables, the reviewer would seem to have employed just such a methodology!
Exactly my point re Art's review.
Spectral Morn
10-03-2016, 20:31
Would there be a point in doing this anyway? The molecular structure of the metals will not change regardless of what magnets are used or where and the flowing electrical signal will vary anyway and disappear when turned off, not hanging around for magnets to work anything on. Or are we looking at something at the quantum level?
It matters, there is a cumulative effect. Why ? No idea.
I would think a Densen disc kinda does this to your whole system cheaply . just saying like :D
Would you - how do you think it would do that then - and what do you think it does?
Hi Mark
From the experiences we have logged over the years from various different sources and products I would suggest that magnets may well have some form of an effect, though the variables are large from cable material, dielectric, length of material proximity to other electronic equipment, size and shape of magnetic field, where the magnetic force is applied on the cable.
Hypothesis for you, depending on the type of cable, intensity of the signal passing through it it will generate a magnetic flux of its own, again at varying intensities *possibly* the external magnetic force you are applying may manipulate the MF that is present in the cable while in operation, again all pure conjecture
Borrow a Gauss meter as well makes for very interesting head scratching!
Though will cables be debated with the same ferocious vigor when the nano-carbon tubes become available at sensible pricing?
Answers on a postcard to Caltech/MIT/Imperial Collage, now did I put my Robin hood outfit :scratch:
Thanks Tony for your input on this. Initially my interest was in looking at the validity of any of the ideas put forward by HFC in their patent application. What is most surprising to me is that adding magnets does anything at all in a subjective sense but perhaps it is just because it is like adding an RFI blocking bead. In this case I intentionally used a steel cored cable to closer emulate the HFC patent but unfortunately I think it is the limiting factor and its weaknesses as an audio conductor rather outweigh any other advantages/ effects which may be taking place.
Hypothesis for you, depending on the type of cable, intensity of the signal passing through it will generate a magnetic flux of its own, again at varying intensities *possibly* the external magnetic force you are applying may manipulate the MF that is present in the cable while in operation, again all pure conjecture
Borrow a Gauss meter as well makes for very interesting head scratching!
I can probably borrow a Gauss meter and will give it a try :).
Regarding the hypothesis you propose, surely the magnetic field is too weak and/or localised whilst the variation in the signal intensity is also too minor....?
Thebiglebowski
14-03-2016, 11:29
Well the core of the cable I used wasn't copper and specifically because it wouldn't otherwise comply with the specs of the HFC patent. Please do experiment or just poke fun - either is fine.
So you are planning on selling them?
How do you conclude that? I ask because nothing in the post you have quoted suggests anything of the sort.
my phone has a gauss meter of sorts .....I was using the compass app to get the north south orientation ..flux lines flow from south to north through the annuls...the gauss meter went into the red if I approached too close to the magnets but didn't look at the actual values ..will check what they are when I get time
Well a Gauss meter does measure magnetic fields so it's not surprising it should react strongly to the presence of a strong neodymium magnet. I suspect Tony is suggesting that the meter may show that the magnetic field is propagated along the length of the cable - perhaps not though.
this is the plain data measured by my phone app for my listen room..
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [these numbers have shifted left ....can't be arsed to fiddle and get them to line up ]
A 50 52 49 50 49 52 50 52 53 50 A
B 51 50 51 50 50 50 50 51 50 50 B
C 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 C
D 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 D
all readings taken at 1m above floor level and at approx 0.5m intervals
A-A closest to partition wall along which hifi and tv are situated. D-D wall behind listening position. numbers 1-10 for grid location
we can see A2 and A9 correspond to the speakers ..A4 hifi A 6 tv.
magnetic field strength [MFS] of 186uT was measured at 5cm from and parallel to the magnet cylinder ...the ic connecting pre at A4 to power amp at A10 was measured at points along it length where I could get the phone within 5cm ..all four readings gave 57uT . A length of the cable laided out in C5 to C7 gave only the background reading of 40uT....
so its clear the IC's central conductor has a higher MFS than background.....
approaching closer to the magnet block the MFS exceeds 300uT [approx 3cm and parallel to it ]
Late to the party (as usual) but I have to confess I'm very interested in these, as I've had an eye on HFC's cable designs for a while. Any thoughts on the sound? The science in the patent looks to be 'a trifle dodgy' (I think that's the phrase) which doesn't make it any the less interesting. I've been thinking about making up a set of something similar for a while -haven't got around to it yet though, so a few more thoughts on the performance would be good. :)
I think the performance of the ones I made up is hindered by the inherent limitation of the cable used. However, the magnet equipped cable did sound better than the non magnet equipped one so that suggests something is at work.
As you say, the science in the patent is distinctly 'dodgy' - interesting though.
Fair enough -I can well believe it makes a difference. I might have to give something on these lines a go.
Yes, give it a try, it's not expensive to experiment.
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