View Full Version : Ortofon RS-212D Help
I am considering acquiring this arm and would appreciate some help from any current users (Marco?). Specifically I am interested to know the effect of the dropped counterweight on vertical position of the stylus, as if tracking a warped record. If this were a statically balanced arm instead of dynamic then there would be an increase in VTF as the arm rises over a warp due to the lowered arm CG below the pivot. However, the RS-212D uses a spring to establish VTF so it is of interest to know if the spring helps or makes the situation worse. This is less of an issue with the AS-21S and TA-110 arms since their counterweights CG are inline with the vertical pivot.
So the following quick experiment could be performed: measure the current VTF with your stylus gauge at the record surface. Then place a small object of about 1/4 inch (corresponding to an extremely wild warp) thick under the stylus gauge, measure VTF again and note any increase.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Neil,
Welcome to the forum :) I'll try what you suggest later and report back...
One thing I would say about the 'dropped counterweight' is that you have to ensure (I do it with a little bubble spirit level), that it's sitting 100% level, and not tilted slightly to one side or the other, otherwise it affects VTF, either increasing or decreasing it, at the point of the stylus.
It's a superb sounding arm, though, and works especially well with low-compliance MCs. I'd thoroughly recommend it! :cool:
Marco.
Hi Neil,
Just tried your experiment, and with a piece of plastic (approx 1/4 inch thick), placed under the stylus gauge, it raised the VTF (from the 2.65g, with my Denon DL-103), to 3.30g.
Not quite sure exactly what it is you're getting at, though... :scratch:
Marco.
Thanks, Marco. A bit more than I expected. If you raised the stylus half the amount, which would correspond more to a real world warp, it would still cause 0.3g increase in VTF, not insignificant but the audible effect would probably depend on the cartridge's sensitivity to small VTF changes. For a 103 or SPU I would guess not much. Still, I wonder why Ortofon designed the arm with a dropped CW where there was no historical precedent (except maybe for the original RS-212 which was also dynamically balanced with perhaps only a slight amount of mass below the pivot because of its odd shape). I guess it's a way to accommodate a wide range of cartridge weights with a single CW. One other effect, as you have pointed out, is the dependence of VTF on the rotational position of the CW.
Have you ever compared this arm to a TA-110 or other 9 inch Ortofon?
Hi Neil,
Interesting stuff, I guess, and something I hadn't really considered. In all honesty, I tend not to get bogged down with details like that, and simply judge tonearms on how they sound, playing music with the cartridges I use - and the RS-212D does sound *really* good! :)
...better than any other tonearm I've used before, or tested it against (SME Vs, etc), and I've owned a few different ones.... Yes, I've compared the RS-212D with a TA-110, and whilst the latter was pretty good, it's really just a 'tarted up' Jelco SA-750, and so for me, not worth the money Ortofon want for it :nono:
I've also owned said Jelco, which the TA-110 was just a little better than, but which was considerably behind what the RS-212D was capable of.
Therefore, you can see where I'm going with this.... Basically, in my opinion, the (sadly now discontinued) RS-212D, and also the 12" version of the same, are the only Ortofon arms I would pay serious money for, simply because the fundamental engineering quality is there, which for me, is absent in most of their other arms, certainly those that are currently available.
Hope this helps :cool:
Marco.
Thanks for all your input. Yeah, I know it's all too easy to get hung up on these kinds of details, but interesting nonetheless if one is a vinyl nerd like me. Have you used your arm with any SPU?
One more thing - it would be of interest from a design standpoint to know if the VTF setting spring is contributing to the rise in VTF over warps. If you are so inclined, and I will understand if you're not, to repeat the experiment in the following manner: adjust VTF to zero with the stylus floating just at the record surface. Then move the CW forward so that the VTF is the same as before. The arm now operates in static balance. Then raise the stylus gauge and measure again as before. I have a hunch that the VTF setting spring may get wound slightly as the arm is raised thus increasing VTF. But if it is anything like a precision watch mainspring it probably would not change.
Thanks for all your input. Yeah, I know it's all too easy to get hung up on these kinds of details, but interesting nonetheless if one is a vinyl nerd like me. Have you used your arm with any SPU?
Yes, I've use the arm with a number of SPUs, the most recent of which is my (1959 vintage) G/T, which sounds superb, as indeed has every other SPU I've used with it. The RS-212D is ideally suited for the purpose, especially with having such a heavy counterweight, in order to effectively balance out the 30g mass of SPUs! ;)
Marco.
One more thing - it would be of interest from a design standpoint to know if the VTF setting spring is contributing to the rise in VTF over warps. If you are so inclined, and I will understand if you're not, to repeat the experiment in the following manner: adjust VTF to zero with the stylus floating just at the record surface. Then move the CW forward so that the VTF is the same as before. The arm now operates in static balance. Then raise the stylus gauge and measure again as before. I have a hunch that the VTF setting spring may get wound slightly as the arm is raised thus increasing VTF. But if it is anything like a precision watch mainspring it probably would not change.
I will try that, and report back, next time I carry out a cartridge change. Right now, having spent so long 'dialling in' what's right for my 103, and gotten it to 'sing', as it were, I'd rather not mess around with the arm.
Out of interest, where are you getting your RS-212D from, and how much is it costing you? :)
Marco.
About $2700 from US dealer. Price has increased significantly over the past few years. Still, the TA-110 is about $1000 cheaper which is why I wonder if the performance of the RS is commensurate with its price.
Cool... Trust me, it is - well as much as one can ever comfortably justify such a difference... That extra, significant (and desirable) few percent in performance, obtained with high-end audio equipment, always costs significant $$$ (or £££)! ;)
However, you can console yourself in the knowledge that the Ortofon is (or rather was) still rather more expensive here, as I paid £2200 for mine! :eek:
Unfortunately, genuinely class tonearms don't come cheap. Top-notch engineering never does!!
Marco.
This is the cheapest I've seen it for, in Germany.
http://www.hifi-phono-house.com/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=11678
Marco, what about the AS-212S? Any experience with it?
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