View Full Version : Could I just remind folks......
....that discussion of any equipment, which predates 1990, should be posted and carried out in the vintage section, 'Past Masters': http://theartofsound.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?5-Past-Masters
I've just had to move three threads this morning, all of which should've been posted there, instead of here in Blank Canvas.
It's important that ALL members, old and new, use the various areas of the forum properly, by *reading* the description, under each 'room', of the specific topics that should be discussed there, instead of just posting new threads, willy-nilly, in any location where it suits, for laziness or quickness, thinking that if it's wrong, one of the mods or I will move it... :nono:
And incidentally, that applies throughout the forum, so please *think* and *look*, before you post a new thread, that it's being put where it should be put. It's up to YOU to get it right, as believe it or not, the mods and I have many other things to do, apart from moving threads around... ;)
Thanks in advance! :thumbsup:
Marco.
StanleyB
01-02-2016, 09:31
But not everyone could be sure of the period under which their equipment falls. If somebody got a 1210 for instance, would if be considered a pre or post 2000 product?
But not everyone could be sure of the period under which their equipment falls. If somebody got a 1210 for instance, would if be considered a pre or post 2000 product?
It's just a general guide, Stan.
There will of course be areas of ambiguity (and corrections will be made where necessary), but the important thing is that folks make an effort in the first place, and actually *think* about where topics should go, BEFORE posting them, and thus **read** the relevant options and descriptions, instead of just dumping stuff anywhere (usually in Blank Canvas), as that's the main area of the forum, with the view of: 'if it's in the wrong place, a mod will move it'.
We're going to start clamping down now on those who are guilty of such lazy thinking... Newbies have an excuse - the rest of you, don't! ;)
Marco.
We are ? Lol
With this storm building im more worried about me being here tomorrow
Audio Advent
11-02-2016, 14:52
who are guilty of such lazy thinking... Newbies have an excuse - the rest of you, don't! ;)
Marco.
I've just spotted this thread.. (I ignore all the stickies precisely because they are stickies and most of them are about 4 years old!)
It wouldn't be about lazy thinking - it would be about being unable to second-guess what YOU'RE thinking! Perhaps that is lazy, not knowing exactly what your thoughts are - I've met many people who don't realise others aren't party to their own thoughts :D
"Past Masters" to me sounds like a section for pretty old equipment but which is highly regarded (hence the "Masters" part) and so is a sub forum for people to tell others about great, older gear (much older than a recent 1999 vintage). Hence I wouldn't post in that section about general, common, hifi that is good but nothing amazing, nor about anything younger than perhaps from about 1975.
Then does this definition apply to all forums or would a 1999 or older record deck belong in the Analogue section or the Past Masters?
All sounds overly regimented and confused to me. But of course I can try to learn - you might have to add subheadings to guide people.
Arkless Electronics
11-02-2016, 14:59
I've just spotted this thread.. (I ignore all the stickies precisely because they are stickies and most of them are about 4 years old!)
It wouldn't be about lazy thinking - it would be about being unable to second-guess what YOU'RE thinking! Perhaps that is lazy, not knowing exactly what your thoughts are - I've met many people who don't realise others aren't party to their own thoughts :D
"Past Masters" to me sounds like a section for pretty old equipment but which is highly regarded (hence the "Masters" part) and so is a sub forum for people to tell others about great, older gear (much older than a recent 1999 vintage). Hence I wouldn't post in that section about general, common, hifi that is good but nothing amazing, nor about anything younger than perhaps from about 1975.
Then does this definition apply to all forums or would a 1999 or older record deck belong in the Analogue section or the Past Masters?
All sounds overly regimented and confused to me. But of course I can try to learn - you might have to add subheadings to guide people.
Agreed. To me if it uses technology that is still current, and probably looks fairly modern then it ain't vintage. Many things from 1999 are no different to a brand new one.
Flanders
11-02-2016, 15:03
Pre 2000? Vintage? But the Sydney Olympics feel like yesterday!
I still think of the Seoul Olympics as quite a recent one. When was that? 1988?
I agree pre 2000 for vintage just doesn't seem right. Pre 1990 might be better as a guideline.
Arkless Electronics
11-02-2016, 16:38
Other than the obvious of how old it is, define age in hi fi gear? Quad 405 for example came out in 1976 but it could be argued that the current dumping technology is still the most recent innovation in hi fi... class D is old hat BTW and predates current dumping by decades, even though it's only fairly recently that component improvements and cheaper manufacturing have made it fairly common.
Circuit design and parts used in some of the most advanced Jap amps from the late '80's is still pretty state of the art, and more so than in many modern amps!
Do we define an amp as vintage because it's over 25 Years old? Because it's styling is obviously from another era? Because the circuit design and parts are from another era? Because it sounds in some way "vintage" (and define that!)?
I still think of the Seoul Olympics as quite a recent one. When was that? 1988?
I agree pre 2000 for vintage just doesn't seem right. Pre 1990 might be better as a guideline.
And is it a static, or moving date? Will it be 2001 next year, 2002 the year after, and so forth?
Guys, guys, guys.... Lol! No need to overly complicate matters. All I'm asking is that a *little thought* (as opposed to sometimes no thought whatsoever) is used before posting threads, instead of just dumping them into Blank Canvas, which happens regularly, and completely defeats the purpose of us having dedicated areas of the forum, for certain topics of discussion.
All you need to do, before posting a new thread, is go through the various sections of the forum and READ the descriptions underneath of what should be posted there, and TRY and ensure that you've posted your thread in the right place.
Sometimes it's obvious where stuff should go (for example ALL cable discussions go into The Artist's Palette), so none should be appearing in Blank Canvas, nor should discussions about music streaming be posted anywhere other than in Digital Expressions, and there are other examples of where it's obvious where things should go. However, sometimes it's less obvious, and that's where you should just use your best judgement/common sense as to where you *think* they belong.
If you've got it wrong, then a mod or member of admin will move the thread to the right place later, but we want to see members using their judgement and not being lazy. It's simply about at least trying to get it right to start with, rather than just automatically piling stuff into Blank Canvas, through sheer laziness. Applying a little bit of thought and effort goes a long way! :cool:
Marco.
British high fidelity
12-02-2016, 01:19
Brother I totally understand where your coming from, but... Seriously how would a new guy know that cable discussions should be posted in artist palette, I know there are a lot of people probably posting from phones and the sub forum headings are a little confusing for new guys, especially guys with no prior audiophile knowledge
Yo Deano,
Point taken, but it's simply a matter of taking the time necessary to become familiar with the layout of the forum, reading the sub-headings, and doing your best to get it right, in terms of where threads should go, rather than just simply steaming in and making no effort at all, in that respect.
A great deal of effort, by us, was put into structuring the forum the way it is, for ease of reference to certain subjects, rather than how it often is on other forums, with everything shoved into 'audio', or whatever, so we'd appreciate it if members took a little time to use the forum as it was intended to be used.
To answer your point:
The Artist's Palette
All cable/equipment support discussion. Also mains accessories or anything which relates to the 'infrastructure' of your audio system. Info on tubes and headphones (inc. headphone amps and systems) should also be discussed here.
See text in blue. I'm struggling to see how we could make that any more obvious, even for a newbie, presuming one makes an effort to read the sub-headings in the first place...? :scratch:
Marco.
StanleyB
12-02-2016, 08:04
I'm struggling to see how we could make it any more obvious, presuming one makes an effort to read the sub-headings in the first place... :scratch:
About 10% of the population is assumed to be dyslexic. So there is a great possibility that many forum members are having problems with reading the sub-headings.
Well, that's fine, Stan. Then they have a valid excuse... Others here don't! ;)
I'm quite sure that your customers and you appreciate having a dedicated sub-forum for discussions on Beresford products, which would quickly lose its usefulness if everyone started posting Beresford threads in Blank Canvas.....
Respect the the forum's layout and structure, and do your best to HELP maintain it, is what we're saying :)
Marco.
Audio Advent
12-02-2016, 15:34
About 10% of the population is assumed to be dyslexic. So there is a great possibility that many forum members are having problems with reading the sub-headings.
Can we use photos instead of subheadings? Like a still-life style arrangement of things appropriate to each sub forum.. :)
Audio Advent
12-02-2016, 15:36
Because it's styling is obviously from another era?
Yep!
If it looks old fashioned...
Can we use photos instead of subheadings? Like a still-life style arrangement of things appropriate to each sub forum.. :)
Lol - do you have an aversion to reading simple words? ;)
I'm not sure if the software will support that, and moreover, whether we'd have the time to implement it - or even whether it would look good. Some folks just seem to want it as easy as possible for them, by putting MORE work and burden on us...!
Marco.
Lazy sods... Hey if i can manage it you can im sure..... Lie mode off:ner:
How do you define 'vintage'? Well that's simple: it's the sort of old tat that Barry still uses. :eyebrows:'
:D Some of that 'old tat', however, can be rather good. I've got a fair wedge of it myself! ;)
Marco.
British high fidelity
13-02-2016, 02:03
Marco, points well said, however using this forum from an android phone the info you state does not show in selection of sub forums for instance if I go into Sub-Forum and select artists palette then it immediately takes me into that posting area there is no Sub-Forums after that, maybe it's a tap talk problem, I think this is where people are getting confused, if like me they use a smart phone 😉
Audio Al
13-02-2016, 02:58
doing your best
I do my best and you still give me a but tanning :spank:
The problem IMO is the poncey names, which are non-intuitive. Simply re-naming 'Artist's Palette' as 'Accessories' and 'Strokes of Genius' as 'Reviews' will solve the problem and reduce the mods' workload.
The problem IMO is the poncey names, which are non-intuitive. Simply re-naming 'Artist's Palette' as 'Accessories' and 'Strokes of Genius' as 'Reviews' will solve the problem and reduce the mods' workload.
I have to say I agree. I also think 2000 is an odd choice as Jez rightly points out that much of the 90s stuff is either still going or indistinguishable from new gear.
On top of that, forum members tend to buy a lot of 80s and 90s gear, so there is a risk of most threads ending up in one category. Are we really to lump all amps, CD players, speakers, Tuners etc in ONE category because they are of a certain age. If so, I think it's the wrong choice. Surely a 90s and 21st century amp have more in common with each other that a 90s amp and a 90s CD player. I'd respectfully say the Original post needs a re-think.
Oh no .... I never even spotted that sub-forum! Now there's a whole other load of stuff to read :doh:
This site is like the flippin' Tardis ... small on the outside, but labyrinthian on the inside.
Can any one direct me to the cookery section, please? :lol:
Oh no .... I never even spotted that sub-forum! Now there's a whole other load of stuff to read :doh:
This site is like the flippin' Tardis ... small on the outside, but labyrinthian on the inside.
Can any one direct me to the cookery section, please? :lol:
Here you go ;)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?1645-Recipes-for-scrumptious-and-reasonably-healthy-food&p=705988#post705988
jollyfix
13-02-2016, 10:14
http://theartofsound.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?28-The-Knowledge
I find this area on the forum interesting, must admit don't go there that often.
Audio Al
13-02-2016, 10:27
http://theartofsound.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?28-The-Knowledge
I find this area on the forum interesting, must admit don't go there that often.
Thats the area for Black Cab trainees :)
The problem IMO is the poncey names, which are non-intuitive. Simply re-naming 'Artist's Palette' as 'Accessories' and 'Strokes of Genius' as 'Reviews' will solve the problem and reduce the mods' workload.
Poncy? :wowzer: Hush they mouth!
What, and make AoS the same as every other forum, with a generic and soulless 'IT-style' template? :nono:
The 'arty theme' is fundamental to the site's identity, so we're very focussed on protecting that, even if it means having to create threads like this every so often to remind members of how the forum should be used.
When you sign up and join our community, you're also signing up to adhering to our ethos, and part of that involves doing things the 'AoS way', such as posting threads in the right areas of the forum and respecting the deliberate arty theme, which correlates with various aspects of audio.
Doing as you suggest, although perhaps reducing our workload, would completely defeat the purpose of naming the forum 'The Art of Sound', which is where all the room names stem from. Therefore, we're determined to maintain the identity of the site, even if it sometimes means a little more work, and gently reminding our members how they should use the forum.
Even if only a handful of folk have paid any attention, then starting this discussion will have been worthwhile :)
Marco.
Hi Andy,
Thanks for your input.
I have to say I agree. I also think 2000 is an odd choice as Jez rightly points out that much of the 90s stuff is either still going or indistinguishable from new gear.
On top of that, forum members tend to buy a lot of 80s and 90s gear, so there is a risk of most threads ending up in one category. Are we really to lump all amps, CD players, speakers, Tuners etc in ONE category because they are of a certain age.
YES! That's precisely how the more 'specialist' areas of the forum are maintained and kept alive!
The point is that Blank Canvas is seen as the main hi-fi area of the forum, so if it's filled with discussions of vintage hi-fi equipment, it gives newbies and onlookers the false impression that AoS is a 'vintage hi-fi site', when that is far from the case. Therefore, modern/new and currently available equipment should be discussed in BC, in order to dilute that impression and provide a more balanced and realistic one.
Yes, we we love good vintage gear, but we're also into music streaming, modifications to equipment using the latest technology, DIY builds and all sorts of stuff - and that's precisely why those topics all have their own dedicated areas which we ask members to use. Therefore, if 'Past Masters' (the vintage section) is inundated with discussions of equipment, such as you've outlined, then so be it. It's obviously what people want to talk about :)
In any case, discussion topics tend to go in cycles, so one week it'll be vintage-orientated, next digital, then cables and accessories, etc, so soon enough, folk will post threads in Blank Canvas again about new gear, which will kick off discussion about that and diversify things again, which is exactly how a vibrant and varied forum should be - and we wouldn't want to stifle that, so that's precisely why we do what we do.
The other thing which is important, is that AoS is seen by many as a 'reference source' for various types of information (hence 'The Knowledge', etc), and so it's very important that popular topics are thus 'categorised' for ease of reference later, by those seeking that information, which is precisely why audio discussion here is separated out, and not all lumped into the one bit.
If so, I think it's the wrong choice. Surely a 90s and 21st century amp have more in common with each other that a 90s amp and a 90s CD player. I'd respectfully say the Original post needs a re-think.
Point taken (referring also to what Macca said), so consider the date for 'vintage qualification' changed to 1990! :cool:
I should also point out that, out with of Blank Canvas, which we rigidly want to keep as 'vintage free', it's inevitable that some of the specialist areas of the forum (such as Digital Expressions and Analogue Art) will become populated with discussions about both current and vintage equipment - and that's fine, as long as the *bulk* of discussion about vintage gear takes place in Past Masters.
The way to decide whether, say, topics about CDPs or turntables should be posted in either Digital Expressions/Analogue Art, or instead in Past Masters, is to know whether or not the items concerned predate 1990, and if so, they simply go into Past Masters.
It ain't rocket science, folks!
Marco.
Here you go ;)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?1645-Recipes-for-scrumptious-and-reasonably-healthy-food&p=705988#post705988
:uhho:
Hi Deano,
Marco, points well said, however using this forum from an android phone the info you state does not show in selection of sub forums for instance if I go into Sub-Forum and select artists palette then it immediately takes me into that posting area there is no Sub-Forums after that, maybe it's a tap talk problem, I think this is where people are getting confused, if like me they use a smart phone ��
Bloody smart phones! :rolleyes: ;) Good point, and as I only ever access the Internet (or AoS) via a laptop, I have no idea what folk see (or don't see) on mobile phones, with Tapatalk.
However, sub-forums aside, common sense should still dictate, when reading the main headings, that for example, a discussion about CD players, belongs in DIGITAL (there's the big clue, lol) Expressions, not Blank Canvas, which is the place to discuss topics that don't have their own dedicated sections on the forum..... :)
Marco.
:uhho:
Have you never seen the food and drink bit before, Peter? :D
Marco.
The problem IMO is the poncey names, which are non-intuitive. Simply re-naming 'Artist's Palette' as 'Accessories' and 'Strokes of Genius' as 'Reviews' will solve the problem and reduce the mods' workload.
An interesting idea but taken to it's logical conclusion it would be very odd.
I think you should put it to the test first. Write to the TV companies and suggest they do the same with the titles of their shows.
'Grand Designs' could become 'Rich People Build Ugly Houses'
'The One Show' could be re-titled 'Teatime Filler For Old People'
'Countryfile' = 'Tea-Time Filler For Old People (Countryside Version)'
'BBC News' would become 'The Establishment Propaganda Show'
and so forth.
Oh, I forgot: You don't watch the telly. :(
jollyfix
13-02-2016, 12:03
'BBC News' would become 'The Establishment Propaganda Show'
(
So true.
An interesting idea but taken to it's logical conclusion it would be very odd.
I think you should put it to the test first. Write to the TV companies and suggest they do the same with the titles of their shows.
'Grand Designs' could become 'Rich People Build Ugly Houses'
'The One Show' could be re-titled 'Teatime Filler For Old People'
'Countryfile' = 'Tea-Time Filler For Old People (Countryside Version)'
'BBC News' would become 'The Establishment Propaganda Show'
and so forth.
Oh, I forgot: You don't watch the telly. :(
:lolsign:
Hilarious!!
Marco.
So true.
Yes, sorry, little bit of politics there, but seriously though, do we really want to live in a world where Hemingway's 'A Farewell To Arms' is retitled 'Some Bloke Gets Drunk a Lot and Rambles'?
The survivors would envy the dead.
spendorman
13-02-2016, 12:18
I thoroughly agree that people should try and post stuff in the right place. I certainly have got it wrong in the past, and probably will again in the future.
Found an interesting one, Bargains on eBay is under Past Masters, but of course there are plenty of non vintage Hi Fi bargains on eBay.
Hi Alex,
Found an interesting one, Bargains on eBay is under Past Masters, but of course there are plenty of non vintage Hi Fi bargains on eBay.
Yes, good point. However, it touches upon something I've already mentioned, which is that it's inevitable certain topics of discussion cannot be rigidly 'pigeonholed' in one section, as the description of where they should go is sometimes unavoidably ambiguous.
It's again about deciding what the *bulk* of the discussion is likely to be about, and thus where threads should go. In that respect, the 'Bargains on ebay' thread will mainly feature links to quality vintage gear, which is why it resides in Past Masters :)
Marco.
Its also worth mentioning again that its better for all sections of the site to receive traffic or they can kinda die off a bit. Thats one of the reasons why bundling stuff in blank canvas for example can cause a log jam in one area and a big blank elsewhere.
The other thing I'd ask members consider, is how they decide what a topic of discussion is essentially about... For example (and this one crops up all the time), does a discussion about the process involved in making vinyl recordings go into Analogue Art or Musical Compositions?
Well, that's a tricky one, and of course open to individual interpretation. In realty, both are probably acceptable. However, the thing to always try and remember is this:
Is the topic essentially or fundamentally about software, i.e. the music itself and/or the process of producing it, or hardware, the equipment involved in reproducing the music. *That* is the judgement criteria you should use when ascertaining where threads should be posted.
Now, as 'Analogue Art' is supposed to contain discussions SOLELY relating to hardware, the 'correct' answer to the above question is that such a thread should be posted in the music room, because it's more likely that the subsequent discussion will centre around MUSIC (and the processes involved in making it), than HI-FI equipment. There are also many other examples I could provide of this type of thing.
And if thread drift occurs (as often happens here), and said discussion evolves into one more about hi-fi (the equipment/hardware), than music, then we, as admin and moderators can either step in and ask that the thread returns back on topic, or if we decide that doing so would stifle, or even end the discussion, then we simply move it to a more appropriate area of the forum. The key thing, in order to make any forum work, is always to try and PROMOTE discussion, letting things flow and getting people talking, not stifling or killing it.
That's OUR job though, not yours, and part of what running a successful forum is about. It's up to YOU GUYS, however, to use yer noggins and try to put stuff in the right place to begin with...! Hey, whoever said that you shouldn't have to sing for your supper? :eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
Its also worth mentioning again that its better for all sections of the site to receive traffic or they can kinda die off a bit. Thats one of the reasons why bundling stuff in blank canvas for example can cause a log jam in one area and a big blank elsewhere.
Spot on, Grant, which is why I'm forever on Al's case about The Show Reel! ;)
Marco.
Furthermore, Blank Canvas isn't to be used for saying 'hello' to one of your friends, or asking someone to clear their PM inbox: it exists solely to house hi-fi discussion.
Therefore, if you want to carry out the former, please use Abstract Chat :thumbsup:
Golden rule: if a topic isn't about hi-fi, it goes into one of the areas of the Off-Topic Section, entitled: 'The Aficionado's Arena', which is clearly highlighted on the site's homepage and separated from the main body of the forum accordingly.
Marco.
British high fidelity
13-02-2016, 14:41
Hi Deano,
Bloody smart phones! :rolleyes: ;) Good point, and as I only ever access the Internet (or AoS) via a laptop, I have no idea what folk see (or don't see) on mobile phones, with Tapatalk.
However, sub-forums aside, common sense should still dictate, when reading the main headings, that for example, a discussion about CD players, belongs in DIGITAL (there's the big clue, lol) Expressions, not Blank Canvas, which is the place to discuss topics that don't have their own dedicated sections on the forum..... :)
Marco.
Absolutely agree with your wisdom, I was mearly pointing out that via smart phones via taptalk lol, the Sub-Forums only allow one selection and do not branch open to alternate areas for correct placement as does the Web pc laptop version, soooooo.
Can I ask that you moderators are not to aggressive with the newbies and mobile hifi guys that may be placing wrongly with no fault of our own, Marco we don't want to be swimming wid da fishes (mafioso speak) [emoji11]
Can I ask that you moderators are not to aggressive with the newbies and mobile hifi guys that may be placing wrongly with no fault of our own
Yeah, sure. I appreciate that, and it is and always will be the case. The whole point of this exercise is to make AoS BOTH an informative and fun place to be, and so we don't want to turn contributing here into a 'chore'.
However, you join a particular forum for a reason, and most importantly remain there and take part in discussions, for a reason. And that reason, whether you realise it or not, is the forum's UNIQUE IDENTITY, or if you like, 'USP'.
Now that identity would become totally eroded and lose its appeal rather quickly if it weren't actively maintained both by the owner(s) and mods, and the members adhering to what makes a particular forum unique (the 'vibe', etc, and the chance for people to genuinely learn something interesting and new), which again as I've said before, is why we do what we do - and also like to keep things that way! :cool:
Marco.
British high fidelity
13-02-2016, 15:14
Well said...also that fun your talking about which Sub-Forum is that in lol
Heh-heh... Try 'Three Words Daily'! :eyebrows:
Marco.
I thoroughly agree that people should try and post stuff in the right place. I certainly have got it wrong in the past, and probably will again in the future.
Found an interesting one, Bargains on eBay is under Past Masters, but of course there are plenty of non vintage Hi Fi bargains on eBay.
When I started the thread "Bargains on eBay?" (and the interrogative punctuation is important), it was to discuss the (then) sale of a Leak 'Troughline' tuner, which being a vintage item of audio gear Past Masters was the correct place to put it.
Since then 'Bargains on eBay?' has taken on a life of its own; being one of the most popular and contributed to threads on AoS (along with 'Spinning Today ... '), so whilst discussion often concerns more current items of gear up for sale, the thread itself hasn't been moved, for the simple reason that vintage items still appear for sale.
walpurgis
13-02-2016, 15:44
Perhaps relocating the thread to say Blank Canvas could be worth considering. I've always though it doesn't sit quite right in Past Masters.
Hi Geoff,
No, because as I pointed out earlier, the vast majority of discussion on the "Bargains on ebay' thread is related to vintage hi-fi (as the best old gear, in terms of the SPPV it delivers, is where most of the REAL bargains are found), and so the thread is best suited to remaining in Past Masters.
What we could do, however, is start a similar thread in Blank Canvas, where the stipulation was that said 'bargains' were all examples of new, currently available equipment. If anyone wants to start it, then go right on ahead! :cool:
Marco.
Mike Reed
30-01-2020, 22:23
Well, I thought I was a little confused before reading this sticky, but now I'm not so sure.:lol: Anyway, with my blinkered approach to hifi, even 'Blank Canvas' needs to be approached with caution. Actually, come to think of it, I contribute to threads rather than initiate them, so should be relatively safe in my dotage.:)
I was concerned when you said you were 'clamping down 'on folk Marco!
I had a mental image of this !!?? :eyebrows: https://voicesinthedark.world/discover-each-mans-thumbscrew-exploring-the-48-laws-of-power-law-33/
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