View Full Version : ZU Denon 103
Anyone got one, heard one, are they worth considering rather than a standard 103?:scratch:
I have three, a standard Zu 103 Mk2, a Zu 103R Mk2 and a Zu 103R mk1. They sound excellent and IMO well worth it. It solves all of the issues with the stock Denon DL-103:
1. Gets the generator out of the stock plastic body that is completely undamped and causes unwanted resonance.
2. The new aluminium body adds extra height to cartridge making it compatible with more turntable/tonearms setups.
3. The new aluminium body also adds much needed 8.5g extra mass to the very low compliance cartridge.
The sonic results of all this is fantastic. The bass is tighter and everything is much more focused. There's really just all around more clarity than the standard cartridge Denon. I've also read where number of guys have sent away their Zu's to ESCCO for a Paratrace after the stock stylus wore out with great results.
Floyddroid
20-01-2016, 11:55
I have a 103 in a heavyweight alloy body in need of a cantilever I am selling if you are interested?
Floyddroid
20-01-2016, 11:59
I have a 103 in a heavyweight alloy body in need of a cantilever I am selling if you are interested?
It was The Analogue factory version. Very good it was too. It addressed all of the problems with the stock cartridge as the Zu version.
jandl100
20-01-2016, 12:24
I've had the Zu and the Analogue Factory 103 - both are significant upgrades on the standard body 103, imo.
They are a bolder, more solid sounding, more articulate cartridge. Well worthwhile.
Echoed.
I have the Zu Dl-103 grade 2 and it indeed is significant step up compared to the stock one. Just please remember to use proper arm suitable for the cart and also same with the SUT, if using one..
For me, apart from the improvements in overall SQ, the added weight of the aluminium block it a big benefit having a low/medium mass arm. It may therefore have a better chance of working effectively with my system.
I think I am zoning in on this as my first choice for MC cartridge but the ZU 103 version in particular.
Judging from other posts dotted around the AOS forum I gather almost any SUT on the planet works well with this cartridge including the Denon HA500, Auditorium A23, K&K Audio, Fidelity FRT-3 Albarry Head amp, RFC head amp, Denon HA1000 Cinemag SUT,s, Haufe SUTs, Partridge SUT, Budgie SUT - bloody hell the list is endless.
So which would be the best bet to go for into a valve MM phono stage? :scratch:
Firebottle
20-01-2016, 17:21
So which would be the best bet to go for into a valve MM phono stage? :scratch:
The fact that you are into a valve stage shouldn't make a scrap of difference James, the input characteristics are going to be virtually identical to any MM stage.
:)
For me, apart from the improvements in overall SQ, the added weight of the aluminium block it a big benefit having a low/medium mass arm. It may therefore have a better chance of working effectively with my system.
I think I am zoning in on this as my first choice for MC cartridge but the ZU 103 version in particular.
Judging from other posts dotted around the AOS forum I gather almost any SUT on the planet works well with this cartridge including the Denon HA500, Auditorium A23, K&K Audio, Fidelity FRT-3 Albarry Head amp, RFC head amp, Denon HA1000 Cinemag SUT,s, Haufe SUTs, Partridge SUT, Budgie SUT - bloody hell the list is endless.
So which would be the best bet to go for into a valve MM phono stage? :scratch:
The DL-103 is the most popular LOMC in existence so almost everyone that winds MC SUTs has made one suitable for it. I've tried the Denon AU-300LC, Cinemag CMQEE-3440A, Jensen JT-44KDX and Haufe T-7883 and liked the Haufe the best but it was close and I'm sure there's still better out there. The Lundahls that Marco is currently using cost significantly more than any of those option and have fancy cores. There has to be at least 15-20 transformers out there that are suitable for it.
The Lundahls that Marco is currently using cost significantly more than any of those option and have fancy cores. There has to be at least 15-20 transformers out there that are suitable for it.
Yet the K&K SUT unit itself [incorporating said Lundahls] is very attractively priced, and costs considerably less than the much vaunted A23 - and, IMO, is better sounding, too! ;)
Marco.
The fact that you are into a valve stage shouldn't make a scrap of difference James, the input characteristics are going to be virtually identical to any MM stage.
:)
Yes, but the best MM valve phono stages are, in my experience, intrinsically superior to anything I've heard that's solid-state.
Also, in my considerable experience of using DL-103s (on and off since 1982, in a multitude of different systems), they seem to respond best to valves, sonically, producing an addictive synergy/musicality, which simply doesn't happen with the SS phono stages I've heard - and I've heard plenty!
Marco.
Hi Jim,
To answer your question, the Zu-103 is a massive upgrade on the stock 103, and could be the very thing you need, as apart from the added mass of the body-shell used, Zus have a more 'upfront', slightly brighter presentation that the wooden-bodied modified varieties, but not in a fatiguing way.
Therefore, it might just give you the wee bit extra top-end 'sparkle' you said that you wanted, in order to counteract the slightly 'tame' presentation of your speakers, in that area. I think it's a good move. Compliment the Zu with a K&K SUT, and you'll be in vinyl heaven! ;)
Marco.
The fact that you are into a valve stage shouldn't make a scrap of difference James, the input characteristics are going to be virtually identical to any MM stage.
:)
Ok thanks Alan.:)
Firebottle
20-01-2016, 19:11
Yes, but the best MM valve phono stages are, in my experience, intrinsically superior to anything I've heard that's solid-state.
Absolutely agree Marco, but the underlying question I think was is the performance of the SUT dependant on what follows. As most MM inputs have virtually identical characteristics then the simple answer is no.
:)
Yeah, from an electrical point of view, sure :)
Marco.
The DL-103 is the most popular LOMC in existence so almost everyone that winds MC SUTs has made one suitable for it. I've tried the Denon AU-300LC, Cinemag CMQEE-3440A, Jensen JT-44KDX and Haufe T-7883 and liked the Haufe the best but it was close and I'm sure there's still better out there. The Lundahls that Marco is currently using cost significantly more than any of those option and have fancy cores. There has to be at least 15-20 transformers out there that are suitable for it.
That's good to know,thanks for your recommendations. I have spoken with Zu and they are manufacturing some more 103,s soon so I will be on their next order.
Hi Jim,
To answer your question, the Zu-103 is a massive upgrade on the stock 103, and could be the very thing you need, as apart from the added mass of the body-shell used, ZUs have a more 'upfront', slightly brighter presentation that the wooden-bodied modified varieties, but not in a fatiguing way.
Therefore, it might just give you the wee bit extra top-end 'sparkle' you said that you wanted, in order to counteract the slightly 'tame' presentation of your speakers, in that area. I think it's a good move. Compliment the Zu with a K&K SUT, and you'll be in vinyl heaven! ;)
Marco.
I am putting a ZU103 on order tonight :)
walpurgis
20-01-2016, 20:06
I am putting a ZU103 on order tonight :)
I don't know the price of the ZU 103, but I'd imagine it's approaching the £400 mark. If that is so, you may want to consider the ZYX R50 Bloom H which costs little more. I can't see a re-bodied DL-103 coming anywhere near the abilities of the ZYX, which is an astonishing MC for the money..
Just a different type of sound, Geoff. Depends on what you're after :)
Marco.
I'm not after the analytical Hifi sound of a 2M or some of the MC,s I've heard.
I am looking for a richer full bodied sound especially in the midrange which is where I believe the 103 excels and it is there where all the best stuff happens in my system. :)
Well, a 103 it is then. Honestly, mate, you simply won't get those particular qualities that you seek (to the same degree) with a modern cartridge. Trust me, I've been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt - 100 times!! ;)
Marco.
I'm not after the analytical Hifi sound of a 2M or some of the MC,s I've heard.
I am looking for a richer full bodied sound especially in the midrange which is where I believe the 103 excels and it is there where all the best stuff happens in my system. :)
Good NOS DL103D or a knackered one rebuilt by Goldring ;)
Well, a 103 it is then. Honestly, mate, you simply won't get those particular qualities that you seek (to the same degree) with a modern cartridge. Trust me, I've been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt - 100 times!! ;)
Marco.
Just had a reply from the guys at ZU Audio and I asked them about them SUTs they found best compatible with the 103.
Jensen, Lundhal(K&K Audio) and Cinemag ( Bobs devices).
So it looks like it will be a K&K Audio as I know someone in the UK who has had good experiences with one of these.;)
Cheers Marco:cool:
That's good to know,thanks for your recommendations. I have spoken with Zu and they are manufacturing some more 103,s soon so I will be on their next order.
They alternate between batches of 103s and 103Rs and they just released a batch of 103Rs about two weeks back.
Just had a reply from the guys at ZU Audio and I asked them about them SUTs they found best compatible with the 103.
Jensen, Lundhal(K&K Audio) and Cinemag ( Bobs devices).
So it looks like it will be a K&K Audio as I know someone in the UK who has had good experiences with one of these.;)
Cheers Marco:cool:
No worries, mate. You've got a Croft MM phono stage too, so you can't really go wrong. With a Zu-103 and K&K SUT 'at the helm', you'll soon be enjoying the rewards of rediscovering your record collection...
Best prepare yourself for the forthcoming sleep loss! :eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
They alternate between batches of 103s and 103Rs and they just released a batch of 103Rs about two weeks back.
I like the MK2 body they are now using, also a different bonding material for potting them. Both apparently tweek the cartridge to another level.
They alternate between batches of 103s and 103Rs and they just released a batch of 103Rs about two weeks back.
Yup. Also, Jim, while you're at it, get one with balanced output on both channels. Zu will give you that option, at a slightly higher cost. That makes a surprising difference! :)
Marco.
Yup. Also, Jim, while you're at it, get one with balanced output on both channels. Zu will give you that option, at a slightly higher cost. That makes a surprising difference! :)
Marco.
Mm mm think it might be worth it whilst I'm at it. Dave in an earlier reply mentioned these.
Must admit although I have been enjoying the M55e very much indeed but my ultimate intention has been to replace the 2M with a MC all along.
This has been on the back burner for a long time and expect it will be a month or so before I get all the bits ordered and delivered to me here in the UK.
In the meantime just as a matter of interest I have another cartridge project on the go, just waiting for it to arrive from Japan. This is very left field,risky and a bit of a long shot. Something from the dim distant past which could be very interesting indeed or a complete horror story.:lol:
It's not an MC or really a MM but something more akin to a Decca! :eyebrows:
Mm mm think it might be worth it whilst I'm at it. Dave in an earlier reply mentioned these.
Must admit although I have been enjoying the M55e very much indeed but my ultimate intention has been to replace the 2M with a MC all along.
This has been on the back burner for a long time and expect it will be a month or so before I get all the bits ordered and delivered to me here in the UK.
In the meantime just as a matter of interest I have another cartridge project on the go, just waiting for it to arrive from Japan. This is very left field,risky and a bit of a long shot. Something from the dim distant past which could be very interesting indeed or a complete horror story.:lol:
It's not an MC or really a MM but something more akin to a Decca! :eyebrows:
Sounds intriguing, so spill!
Good move on the balanced output thing. Honestly, it's worth it :)
Marco.
walpurgis
20-01-2016, 21:26
It's not an MC or really a MM but something more akin to a Decca! :eyebrows:
Yes. I'd like to know too.
Yes. I'd like to know too.
You've had a few of these in your time I think Geoff. :)
ADC.
walpurgis
20-01-2016, 21:57
You've had a few of these in your time I think Geoff. :)
ADC.
I still have. Let us know how you get on with it. (is it a TRX?)
I still have. Let us know how you get on with it. (is it a TRX?)
XLM MKii Improved.
walpurgis
20-01-2016, 22:08
XLM MKii Improved.
That's a fine sounding cartridge. Quite high compliance, can't recall the exact spec. Probably around 35/40cu. Not as mad as the 60cu of the 26 though.
(I hate to say this, but it will give your ZU a serious run for its money. My ADC 10E Mk.IV was every bit as good as my DL-103R. Quite similar sounding too)
That's a fine sounding cartridge. Quite high compliance, can't recall the exact spec. Probably around 35/40cu. Not as mad as the 60cu of the 26 though.
Yes the Original ADC XLM was mad high compliance so they reduced it on the Mkii. This will be a tricky white knuckle set up as not sure my tonearm is lower enough mass and these cartridges because the way they are constructed are liable to collapse if the rubber has perished. Also the magnets can drop off:eek:
However the one I am getting looks mint and hardly used with some magnificent photos of it on the Jap website.
I have been told by some very enthusiastic Decca users there is something about its delivery that has similarities although there is nothing on the planet really like a Decca.
By the way I do have an opportunity to buy privately a number of Decca cartridges but the one I want is heading towards £1000.
walpurgis
20-01-2016, 22:30
I have been told by some very enthusiastic Decca users there is something about its delivery that has similarities.
Dunno who told you that. The Deccas and ADCs would have a job to sound less alike. The Deccas have the kind of sound some might expect from a good digital source, being tight, fast, extremely open and clean (mostly). The ADCs have comparatively refined, but powerful sound with great poise and excellent transparency and detail. The bass is tighter with the Deccas, but deeper with the ADCs. I couldn't really say which I like best.
Hi All
hmm interesting thread this
I have a fairly new 103R and was rather disappointed to find that i prefer my old Shure V15 III and even the Nag MP11.
Am prepared to get my 103R 'upgraded'
What can i do?
Send it to Zu?
What are my options?
Thanks
walpurgis
21-01-2016, 00:43
Why do you prefer the V15 III to the DL-103R?
I've heard both and am a bit puzzled by your findings. Does your system lean towards the 'bright' or 'lean' side of things?
Or could this be a symptom of the choice of phono stages? Neither of which would allow a good MC to really show its abilities.
I've tried the TubeBox SE and TubeBox II and found them not exactly the most revealing. The Cambridge stages are great as budget units, but nowhere near good enough for the DL-103R.
Why do you prefer the V15 III to the DL-103R?
I've heard both and am a bit puzzled by your findings. Does your system lean towards the 'bright' or 'lean' side of things?
Or could this be a symptom of the choice of phono stages? Neither of which would allow a good MC to really show its abilities.
I've tried the TubeBox SE and TubeBox II and found them not exactly the most revealing. The Cambridge stages are great as budget units, but nowhere near good enough for the DL-103R.
i remember that the V15 was 'clearer' on AB testing.
I found the 103R was 'harsher'
V15 was (is ) is the graham 1.5 and the DL103R was in the 3012
Both arms have had good restoration jobs.
Agree that both my phonostages are pretty budgetty
In the end i put the Nag in the 3012 and tend to use that straight into the inbuilt phono of the AU111 - it sounds a bit brighter than V15 thru Cambridge.
Overall i would say my system is on the warmer side.
So i have this 103R that i dont particularly like!
btw it was in the Graham earlier but that sounded worse as there were tracking issues !
maybe something is wrong with it ! i bought it new from quite a reputable seller on eBay
If you don't like the sound of the base 103R, getting it re-bodied isn't going to magically transform it.
Out of interest, is the ADC XLM III any good, and what would I expect to pay for a lightly used one?
Out of interest, is the ADC XLM III any good, and what would I expect to pay for a lightly used one?
The ADC XLM MKiii has a different stylus to the XLM MKii and I believe does not sound quite as good but still a great cartridge. The one yo get is the ADC XLM MKii improved, it actually says it on the body. Lightly used go for about £120.
Thanks for the info.
Looking forwards to hearing your thoughts on the Zu 103 when it arrives.
Anyone got one, heard one, are they worth considering rather than a standard 103?:scratch:
Just to throw in a curved ball you might also consider my appraoch - see: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?40262-Northwest-Analogue-DL103-first-impressions
Steve
Just to throw in a curved ball you might also consider my appraoch - see: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?40262-Northwest-Analogue-DL103-first-impressions
Steve
Fantastic stuff Steve but a bit too pricey for me at the moment.
Thanks James - no harm in giving Dom at NWA a call to discuss your "needs" - IME there will be no pressure to buy just advice and suggestions
walpurgis
21-01-2016, 10:59
Out of interest, is the ADC XLM III any good, and what would I expect to pay for a lightly used one?
Yes the XLM III is well worth looking for. It sounds excellent and is less fussy about which arms it is used in. I had one working just fine in a Pioneer PL-12D many years ago.
As for price. Well it could be anything these days, but upwards of £60 would be realistic.
walpurgis
21-01-2016, 11:31
If you don't like the sound of the base 103R, getting it re-bodied isn't going to magically transform it.
I agree. The intrinsic character of the cartridge will remain the same. I found the DL-103R a pretty good MC myself. It's a comparative bargain at the new price. Certainly more revealing and more refined than the base DL-103.
Certainly more revealing and more refined than the base DL-103.
Mmmm... :hmm: :hmm:
:ner:
There are a few caveats I could cite, which would dilute the veracity of that somewhat absolutist statement! ;)
Marco.
walpurgis
21-01-2016, 12:00
OK Marco. I could have added 'in my system'. :D
Hehehehe.... Yup.
As an aside, it would be an interesting one to demonstrate at a show, with the test system (and T/T, with detachable headshell arm) fitted with either a stock 103, or 103R, pre-mounted in suitable headshells, and then both assessed with SUTs/head amps able to fully showcase their respective abilities - then let the punters decide which one they preferred! ;)
Marco.
walpurgis
21-01-2016, 12:26
I'll bring a ZYX along. That'll cause some ripples! ;)
Yeah, a 'cartridge shoot-out room' would be a great thing to do at a show. You could also bring your Deccas and ADCs - or anything else you rated. The key requirement would be that they're all pre-mounted in headshells, so swaps can be done fairly quickly.
Then all you would need is a good T/T and MM phono stage, (to use with any partnering SUTs/head amps), to show off all the cartridges properly :cool:
Marco.
walpurgis
21-01-2016, 12:43
Could be tricky. The MCs and some MMs would be OK. But the Deccas require their own arm and the ADCs need a low mass item. Nice idea though.
Yes true, although I've had excellent results with Deccas, installed on a Jelco SA750, which is not too dissimilar from my current Ortofon.
One belonged to Barry (a Gold), which he brought to my place pre-mounted in a headshell, fitted with the required 'pod', and it sounded superb. Also, Croft phono stages (with Glenn being a major fan) are 'voiced' to suit Deccas :)
ADCs, however, being so high-compliance, are indeed a different matter, and so would require the use of a different tonearm. An SME Series III would be ideal!
Marco.
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