What do you guys think?

[Forkbeard]

Hi guys, I would appreciate your views on the following, I currently have a Denon micro system and am about to upgrade to a proper amplifier. Sevenoaks Sound & Vision are currently offering brand new Roksan K2 BT amp and matching power amp for £799. This seems like a remarkably good deal to me as these units were a thousand quid each four years ago. Do you guys think this is a good investment for my hard earned or would my £800 be better invested elsewhere? Thanks in advance,

Phil :)

[struth]

Depends on your total budget but I am inclined to start at the speakers and work back. Good amps Roksan, but it will depend on many things as to whether they are going to be right for you....room size, and type of speakers you intend to have etc, etc.

[Forkbeard]

Depends on your total budget but I am inclined to start at the speakers and work back. Good amps Roksan, but it will depend on many things as to whether they are going to be right for you....room size, and type of speakers you intend to have etc, etc.

I have Monitor Audio Bronze B2 speakers, the lounge is average size and my TT is a Rega P3-24 with TT PSU and a Rega Bias 2 cartridge,

Thanks, Phil.

[RichB]

Depends on your total budget but I am inclined to start at the speakers and work back. Good amps Roksan, but it will depend on many things as to whether they are going to be right for you....room size, and type of speakers you intend to have etc, etc.

What he says...

I've liked Roksan stuff I've heard, speakers are very much a personal preference though. Compare them with some Regas maybe...

[archiesdad]

Can you get them home on demo? Always good to try before you buy.

[struth]

Decent speakers, but not sure if the Biggish Roksan is perhaps overkill with them... As said above it would be great to try them with your speakers, either there or better in your room. But it would be a good springboard if you intend getting bigger speakers.
\\\\personally I would go for something secondhand with a little less ooph, and save some cash; mind you I'm a cheap, mean Scotsman:D

[agk]

I'm with Grant I think. If you plan to upgrade the speakers then the Roksan kit is a worthy buy.

[Forkbeard]

I've had the speakers a while now, they will suffice for the moment but I will be buying something more suitable as funds and the wife allow, what would you guys recommend?

[Brigadoon]

Decent speakers, but not sure if the Biggish Roksan is perhaps overkill with them... As said above it would be great to try them with your speakers, either there or better in your room. But it would be a good springboard if you intend getting bigger speakers.
\\\\personally I would go for something secondhand with a little less ooph, and save some cash; mind you I'm a cheap, mean Scotsman:D

What Grant said. That's a big wodge of cash to sink into something you aren't sure is right for you on many levels. I'm going to be a bit controversial here and say Roksan is IMHO overpriced. You could pick up a very decent second hand amp for a third of what the Roksan setup would cost and still have a great system. My advice (which is worth what you pay for it)... is don't drop your hard earned on what a salesman tells you. You would be better off looking at maybe a second hand Sony QS or ES series amp, or if you must go new, look at the Marantz PM6005, or the unbelievably good VFM Onkyo A910.

[Forkbeard]

Controversial indeed, thanks Barry :)

[struth]

some of the big sonys are very good amps and underrated by many, I am using one myself now and have to say it is very good and at a fraction of the price .... Mine is a big powerful amp with a decent mm stage t'boot, and worth finding a nice one, even if you may have to re cap it in the future.
Mine is a SONY TA-FB940R

[danilo]

Seriously suggest you get one of these as Amp stage; http://www.neurochrome.com/modulus-86-rev-2-0/
And these drivers; http://www.neurochrome.com/modulus-86-rev-2-0/ (pluvias are newest most reviewed)
Combine the two and you will be into seriously good sounds.
Yess there are better.
There is Always 'better' in any Human endeavour.
But it's gonna cost you a Helluvalot more $$ to equal let alone better.
Sadly, Horses to water complications are endemic in Audio land.
G'luck

[Brigadoon]

some of the big sonys are very good amps and underrated by many, I am using one myself now and have to say it is very good and at a fraction of the price .... Mine is a big powerful amp with a decent mm stage t'boot, and worth finding a nice one, even if you may have to re cap it in the future.
Mine is a SONY TA-FB940R

+1 In fact f the FB 9XXR QS amps are all nice bits of kit. will There are currently a few on that site we love to hate, and they seem to go for around the £100 - £150 mark. I doubt you'd come close in sound quality spending that on a new amp.


Seriously suggest you get one of these as Amp stage; http://www.neurochrome.com/modulus-86-rev-2-0/
And these drivers; http://www.neurochrome.com/modulus-86-rev-2-0/ (pluvias are newest most reviewed)
Combine the two and you will be into seriously good sounds.
Yess there are better.
There is Always 'better' in any Human endeavour.
But it's gonna cost you a Helluvalot more $$ to equal let alone better.
Sadly, Horses to water complications are endemic in Audio land. :lol:
G'luck
The second linky is also to the amp...

This looks like a good basis for a DIY power-amp, although my impression is the OP is not quite ready to embark on that route (correct me if wrong Phil)

[Forkbeard]

+1 In fact f the FB 9XXR QS amps are all nice bits of kit. will There are currently a few on that site we love to hate, and they seem to go for around the £100 - £150 mark. I doubt you'd come close in sound quality spending that on a new amp.


The second linky is also to the amp...

This looks like a good basis for a DIY power-amp, although my impression is the OP is not quite ready to embark on that route (correct me if wrong Phil)

You are absolutely correct in your assumption Barry, cracking idea but a bit beyond me I'm afraid.

[Forkbeard]

But I will definitely be looking at the Sony amps, would I really be able to get very good hi-fi sound from one of these old amps?

[Michael loves music]

I have a Denon 350 SE amp sounds wonderful

[walpurgis]

I have a Denon 350 SE amp sounds wonderful

They certainly do. In a different league to the cheaper PMA-250SE. You'd need to spend a good few quid to better the 350SE.

I've used cheap amps and expensive amps, but I think the Denon is a bit of a hero in value for money Hi-Fi terms.

[Forkbeard]

Seriously suggest you get one of these as Amp stage; http://www.neurochrome.com/modulus-86-rev-2-0/
And these drivers; http://www.neurochrome.com/modulus-86-rev-2-0/ (pluvias are newest most reviewed)
Combine the two and you will be into seriously good sounds.
Yess there are better.
There is Always 'better' in any Human endeavour.
But it's gonna cost you a Helluvalot more $$ to equal let alone better.
Sadly, Horses to water complications are endemic in Audio land.
G'luck

Thanks Danilo but I never did get the hang of soldering :)

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Phil

Personally I don't think that Monitor Audio and Roksan is a good mix, you need to hear them together and if you like the mix great. For me it would be too bright and forward sounding.

[Forkbeard]

Hi Phil

Personally I don't think that Monitor Audio and Roksan is a good mix, you need to hear them together and if you like the mix great. For me it would be too bright and forward sounding.

Thanks Neill,

[walpurgis]

Thanks Danilo but I never did get the hang of soldering :)

Soldering is a very handy skill. We've just had a good thread on cable making by Oliver, who'd not done any soldering before and ended up doing some good work quickly.

Here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?42334-DIY-RCA-Cables

Why not have a bash?

[Forkbeard]

Soldering is a very handy skill. We've just had a good thread on cable making by Oliver, who'd not done any soldering before and ended up doing some good work quickly.

Here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?42334-DIY-RCA-Cables

Why not have a bash?

Cheers, I shall give it a go :)

[Brigadoon]

But I will definitely be looking at the Sony amps, would I really be able to get very good hi-fi sound from one of these old amps?

In short, Yes.

Provided the amp is n good nick, you would have to go a leg way to beat one of them for sound quality. I have been involved in 'high end' audio for nigh on 30 years as a hobbyist, installer and dealer, and I can honestly say that you're unlikely to find the level,of quality design and build of the older amps in new models unless you're ready to spend £1000's

Of course that doesn't apply to ALL older amps...there is a lot of dross out there, but essentially, if you can tick the following boxes, whatever amp you're looking at will be better than okay:

- toroidal transformer
- dual mono design
- quality capacitors
- decent speaker binding posts
- quality switches

These are normally the marks of a well designed / built amp.

Oh, and just for the record, "damping factor" doesn't count for diddly.......

[Forkbeard]

In short, Yes.

Provided the amp is n good nick, you would have to go a leg way to beat one of them for sound quality. I have been involved in 'high end' audio for nigh on 30 years as a hobbyist, installer and dealer, and I can honestly say that you're unlikely to find the level,of quality design and build of the older amps in new models unless you're ready to spend £1000's

Of course that doesn't apply to ALL older amps...there is a lot of dross out there, but essentially, if you can tick the following boxes, whatever amp you're looking at will be better than okay:

- toroidal transformer
- dual mono design
- quality capacitors
- decent speaker binding posts
- quality switches

These are normally the marks of a well designed / built amp.

Oh, and just for the record, "damping factor" doesn't count for diddly.......

Thanks Barry, I had a look about for the high end Sony discussed previously but could not see any nice examples, would you mind giving me a few pointers as to different models I should be looking out for, I like to listen primarily to vinyl if that helps, thanks,

[Dauntless]

If I were you I would have a look at Nord audio's site : - http://www.iqspeakers.co.uk/#!hypex-amps/avuyk
They are offering IPL Speakers built to a high standard which far exceed the component quality of commercial speakers in my view and sound very good in the bargin at a very good price. Also look at the Abrahamsen electronics. These used to be marketed through dealers under the Electrocompaniet label via a dealer network. All their amps power supplies are built around a 1000va transformer. Electrocompaniet have a very good reputation but were expensive. Now you can get them for what in Hi-Fi terms is pea nuts. You can get a dem of their gear but you will have to get on your bike to Cheltenham.

[Brigadoon]

Thanks Barry, I had a look about for the high end Sony discussed previously but could not see any nice examples, would you mind giving me a few pointers as to different models I should be looking out for, I like to listen primarily to vinyl if that helps, thanks,
Will do Phil, I'll post something tomorrow - I'm a bit under the kosh tonight.

[Forkbeard]

Much appreciated Barry, thanks,

[Brigadoon]

Phil I haven't forgotten - just running out of hours. I've been given the day off from rebuilding the house by SWMBO tomorrow, so I'll definitely get you some info on the morrow.

[Forkbeard]

Phil I haven't forgotten - just running out of hours. I've been given the day off from rebuilding the house by SWMBO tomorrow, so I'll definitely get you some info on the morrow.

Thanks Barry, I understand SWMBO must always take precedence :lol:

[rallye666]

Controversial indeed, thanks Barry :)

I had the Kandy LIII (model before the k2) and it was great amp.

Picked it up for 2nd hand for £300 and although I loved it, I dont think I'd pay £700 for a new one.

The K2 is very similar to the LIII so I'd be looking on the 2nd hand market if you like the Roksan sound.

I do believe your £700 would better be spent on some different speakers though.

Changing my amp from a Kandy to a Creek Destiny 2 was a subtle change.

Going from Tannoy DC6 speakers to my Kef LS50's wasn't subtle at all and made a massive improvement.

Cheers, James

[jandl100]

... if you like the Roksan sound.

Yes, I think there is a Roksan sound.
Ime, it tends to be ballsy and upfront, lacking a little in sophistication and fine nuance. Imaging tends to be 'wall of sound' rather than 3D holographic.
Great for rock and modern dance, for example, but I didn't really like it much (I tried 2 Roksan amps) for my classical music choices.

I agree with others who have said that you can get great amps at used prices for a lot less than £800.
And yes, get your speakers sorted first! I think you need to choose the amp that will suit your speakers best. :)

[Forkbeard]

Yes, I think there is a Roksan sound.
Ime, it tends to be ballsy and upfront, lacking a little in sophistication and fine nuance. Imaging tends to be 'wall of sound' rather than 3D holographic.
Great for rock and modern dance, for example, but I didn't really like it much (I tried 2 Roksan amps) for my classical music choices.

I agree with others who have said that you can get great amps at used prices for a lot less than £800.
And yes, get your speakers sorted first! I think you need to choose the amp that will suit your speakers best. :)

Thanks Jerry, I am looking around at other amps now, used ones too, any used ones that you would recommend? I will be updating my speakers when funds allow, possibly some Tannoy floorstanders.

[Forkbeard]

I had the Kandy LIII (model before the k2) and it was great amp.

Picked it up for 2nd hand for £300 and although I loved it, I dont think I'd pay £700 for a new one.

The K2 is very similar to the LIII so I'd be looking on the 2nd hand market if you like the Roksan sound.

I do believe your £700 would better be spent on some different speakers though.

Changing my amp from a Kandy to a Creek Destiny 2 was a subtle change.

Going from Tannoy DC6 speakers to my Kef LS50's wasn't subtle at all and made a massive improvement.

Cheers, James

Thanks James, I have revised my ideas now and am looking secondhand as well. I will be updating my speakers as funds allow and was thinking of some Tannoy floorstanders.

[rallye666]

I had some tannoy DC6T floorstanders. And whilst they were great, they were bettered in most respects (apart from absolute bass extension) by the LS50's.

If your looking at tannoy on the used market I'd go for at least the Precision range:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/321965596104

That looks like a bargain to me!

[Forkbeard]

Thanks James, I do like those Kef LS 50's. Are they really as good as the reviews would have you believe?

[Brigadoon]

Thanks Barry, I had a look about for the high end Sony discussed previously but could not see any nice examples, would you mind giving me a few pointers as to different models I should be looking out for, I like to listen primarily to vinyl if that helps, thanks,

Hi Phil, here are some suggestions as promised:

Sony TA FA 3ES (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-ES-CLASS-STEREO-AMPLIFIER-/111872853982?hash=item1a0c2447de:g:vVYAAOSwL7VWlQf 8)
I have one of these amps myself - very well designed and built - dual mono power amp, hefty torroidal transformer, Class A amp and phono board isolated & screened, and intelligent layout. The amp has a very decent phono stage which takes MM & MC. Sound characteristics are well extended across the dymanic range, full bass, sweet mid/upper ranges. Lovely detail and finesse, lots of power at 70W RMS and with a THD of 0.008%, I would say you'd be looking well north of £1k on a new amp to get this level of performance.

Here is a TA FA 30ES (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-TA-FA30ES-ES-CLASS-STEREO-AMPLIFIER-/111883410255?hash=item1a0cc55b4f:g:H6QAAOSwFqJWoz8 e) This is the later version of the TA FA3ES amp, basically identical specs, but not quite as well designed. I'd go for the TA3ES personally.

Another optiion is this SONY TA-F590ES
(http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-TA-F590ES-ES-CLASS-STEREO-AMPLIFIER-/111885419601?hash=item1a0ce40451:g:yWQAAOSwoydWpe6 Q) Slightly more powerful at 85 watts, but good transparency at 0.005% THD. Not as well designed as the TA3ES in my opinion, but still a very good amplifier, although the phono stage on this one is not up the quality of the earlier ES models.

Then there's this SONY TA-FB940R QS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-TA-FB940R-QS-LINEAR-PHASE-MOS-POWER-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-REMOTE-Exc-COND-/262256170920?hash=item3d0faf97a8:g:f00AAOSwUV9Wo8i 7) Spec wise veryh close to the TA FA 30ES, but not as good on the phono stage, (no MC). I have no personal experinece of this amp, but Grant (Struth) and a few others rate this one quite highly.

I have no connection to the above sellers, these are just what I found on feeBay, and any of these four will give you far more value for money than a new amp.

[Forkbeard]

Hi Phil, here are some suggestions as promised:

Sony TA FA 3ES (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-ES-CLASS-STEREO-AMPLIFIER-/111872853982?hash=item1a0c2447de:g:vVYAAOSwL7VWlQf 8)
I have one of these amps myself - very well designed and built - dual mono power amp, hefty torroidal transformer, Class A amp and phono board isolated & screened, and intelligent layout. The amp has a very decent phono stage which takes MM & MC. Sound characteristics are well extended across the dymanic range, full bass, sweet mid/upper ranges. Lovely detail and finesse, lots of power at 70W RMS and with a THD of 0.008%, I would say you'd be looking well north of £1k on a new amp to get this level of performance.

Here is a TA FA 30ES (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-TA-FA30ES-ES-CLASS-STEREO-AMPLIFIER-/111883410255?hash=item1a0cc55b4f:g:H6QAAOSwFqJWoz8 e) This is the later version of the TA FA3ES amp, basically identical specs, but not quite as well designed. I'd go for the TA3ES personally.

Another optiion is this SONY TA-F590ES
(http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-TA-F590ES-ES-CLASS-STEREO-AMPLIFIER-/111885419601?hash=item1a0ce40451:g:yWQAAOSwoydWpe6 Q) Slightly more powerful at 85 watts, but good transparency at 0.005% THD. Not as well designed as the TA3ES in my opinion, but still a very good amplifier, although the phono stage on this one is not up the quality of the earlier ES models.

Then there's this SONY TA-FB940R QS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-TA-FB940R-QS-LINEAR-PHASE-MOS-POWER-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-REMOTE-Exc-COND-/262256170920?hash=item3d0faf97a8:g:f00AAOSwUV9Wo8i 7) Spec wise veryh close to the TA FA 30ES, but not as good on the phono stage, (no MC). I have no personal experinece of this amp, but Grant (Struth) and a few others rate this one quite highly.

I have no connection to the above sellers, these are just what I found on feeBay, and any of these four will give you far more value for money than a new amp.

Thanks for taking the time out to do this Barry, much appreciated, you've given me a lot to consider now :)

I have just been looking around on fleabay and have come accross a Marantz PM 80, do you know anything about this particular amp?

[Brigadoon]

Thanks for taking the time out to do this Barry, much appreciated, you've given me a lot to consider now :)

I have just been looking around on fleabay and have come accross a Marantz PM 80, do you know anything about this particular amp?

I don't have personal experience of this amp, but it is quite highly regarded. Good specs with 0.005% THD, and it can switched between class A and A/B (20w in Class A mode IIRC)
There are three versions - the standard Pm 80, then a PM80SE fine tuned by Ken Ishiwata and better construction materials, and the revised PM80Mk II. Common opinion is that the MkII is the poorest performer of the three versions AFAIK.
Marantz has a specific sound to it - lush and warm - many people call it tube-like. Personally, and this is just my take on it, I find it somewhat contrived. I have a well tweaked. Marantz CD6000, which has languished in storage ever since I got my Sony 222ESD and Cambridge Audio Azur 640C. The reason being I find too much "colour" in the Marantz sound.

For me transparency is the ultimate measure of audio equipment performance - Peter Walkers concept of "straight wires with gain" and for this reason my tweaked Rotel RA980BX is similarly on the subs bench.

But horses for courses...and again the PM80 will deliver value for money in spades. I may be wrong but I do remember these being not the most robust of amps, so it might be worth making sure you pick up a minter if you can.

[Forkbeard]

But horses for courses...and again the PM80 will deliver value for money in spades. I may be wrong but I do remember these being not the most robust of amps, so it might be worth making sure you pick up a minter if you can.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Barry, I think you are right about the Marantz not being so robust, I have been reading quite a bit on the interweb and it appears that this particular amp suffers from a lot of reliability issues with dry joints and burnt out resistors. I am currently looking at this one,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-ES-CLASS-STEREO-AMPLIFIER-/111872853982?hash=item1a0c2447de:g:vVYAAOSwL7VWlQf 8
I think I'll see what he will take for it

[Forkbeard]

Right Guys, time for an update, after reading all of your knowledgable replies I decided to have a look on eBay for a nice pre-enjoyed :) amp. I made an offer of £180 on a Sony TA FA3ES which had been described as mint condition which the seller accepted. After parting with my hard earned plus £22 P&P I eagerly awaited the arrival of my first real Hi-Fi amp. This duly arrived about four days later and I was very impressed with the way it had been packed. Once it was out of the box I could see it was indeed in very good condition which was nice, however, I then noticed what appeared to be an oil leak coming from the volume control, this took me a bit by surprise as I did not realise volume controls had oil in them! I must admit I thought this a bit strange but onwards and upwards, I thought I would give it a bit of a wipe over with some Isoproponal Alcohol to get rid of the oil weep and finger marks, imagine my surprise when my cloth started to turn black as the alcohol started to remove the black marker pen that had been used to colour in the the scratches on the faceplate :lol:

By this time I was starting to feel a tad concerned but reassured myself by thinking that of course this amp will have a few scratches, it's probably 20 years old and if you were selling a used car you would probably nip to Halfords, buy a touch-up pen and make your car look lovely before someone comes round to look at it. So, on to the most important thing, let's get this baby plugged in and see how she sounds. I wired my speakers only and switched on with no source connected. I wanted to make sure there were no nasty noises coming from the speakers. All was quiet until I selected the phono input, at this point I noticed an earth hum coming from the right channel. I then connected my Rega P3-24 with Bias 2 cartridge and the right channel got even noisier. I put Nirvana on the turntable and it sounded awful, there was all sorts of pops and cracks coming from the speaker. I tried to eliminate all causes by changing the speakers over and changing inputs but no matter what I did it was always the right channel. At this point I decided to return the amp to the seller, he is a second-hand Hi-Fi dealer, so I emailed him and waited for a response. He replied within the hour and reassured me that the amp was fully tested before being posted and was faultless so it must have got damaged n transit. He then offered a full refund, including postage and even arranged for the courier to come and pick it up which he has just done. My Mrs has just said to me 'I told you to buy a new one' :). So here I am, back at square one, still without an amp and still unsure whether to buy new or used. :)

[Ali Tait]

Don't let it put you off. I've bought loads of the bay and never had a problem. At least he didn't quibble about giving your money back.

[Forkbeard]

Don't let it put you off. I've bought loads of the bay and never had a problem. At least he didn't quibble about giving your money back.

No, I won't, give the guy his due, he straight away offered a full refund including postage.

[Forkbeard]

Can anyone throw any light on the oil coming from the volume control?

[Macca]

Volume controls don't have oil in them so My guess would be that the seller gave it a generous squirt with some lubricant before he packed it.

There is no reason why a 20 year old amp should have any marks or scratches on it. one or two are excusable but more than that and it is normally a sign that it has not been looked after very well, so avoid anything that looks a bit battered. there are enough good amps out there that there is no need to buy a battered one.

I've not looked at what is currently available but you should consider buying an amp from the classifieds on this site. Cheaper and more reliable than eBay.

[Arkless Electronics]

In short, Yes.

Provided the amp is n good nick, you would have to go a leg way to beat one of them for sound quality. I have been involved in 'high end' audio for nigh on 30 years as a hobbyist, installer and dealer, and I can honestly say that you're unlikely to find the level,of quality design and build of the older amps in new models unless you're ready to spend £1000's

Of course that doesn't apply to ALL older amps...there is a lot of dross out there, but essentially, if you can tick the following boxes, whatever amp you're looking at will be better than okay:

- toroidal transformer
- dual mono design
- quality capacitors
- decent speaker binding posts
- quality switches

These are normally the marks of a well designed / built amp.

Oh, and just for the record, "damping factor" doesn't count for diddly.......

Au contraire...

Toroidal transformer - no better than standard E-I core transformer in any important area.

Dual mono design - Completely unnecessary at any reasonable price point and will detract from money spent on more important things elsewhere.

Quality capacitors - Like what? The main thing is that correct values and voltage ratings have been used. Different makes are much of a muchness. Even many of the Chinese brands have improved to the point where completely OK.

Decent speaker binding posts - Completely irrelevant to sound quality and again takes money from more important areas. Seems to be important to many users purely for bling factor...

On the other hand though, if all these things have been properly implemented then it shows that the amp should be quite expensive and therefore one would hope that the important areas have been well addressed..... This is not always the case though!! Most manufacturer's build stuff to meet the expectations of non technically proficient end users and therefore all sorts of features/styling etc are incorporated to give all the "correct ticks in the boxes" for whatever is trendy at the time. Making it appeal on the dealers shelf and the magazine reviews is where the manufacturers put the effort. As someone who has worked in the industry I can assure people that this is the main interest of the manufacturers and that sound quality comes WELL down the list!!!

It would be very unlikely these days for any manufacturer (well maybe except me, who doesn't "play the game" and will probably remain poor!) to for example fit cheapo looking non gold plated speaker connectors in order to spend the money saved on better op amps and capacitors in the phono stage....
The cheapo speaker connectors would make diddly squat difference to sound quality but people expect fancy gold plated ones to be present on the check list. The improved phono stage would probably make a big difference to SQ but most manufacturers would take the view that not everyone will be using vinyl and of those that do how many will be using a really good cart etc? "Nah fit the bling connectors for the magpie appeal at the hi fi dealers" would happen 95% of the time!

[Macca]

Good post Jez.

There was a time when the mags were obsessed with how chunky the speaker binding posts were, not sure if they still are. Before that it was blingy feet IIRC

[Forkbeard]

Thanks guys, I love all the varied and opposing views on this site.:)

[Ali Tait]

There is also the fact that some manufacturers deliberately downgrade the SQ of their cheaper amps so they don't compete with amps further up the range..

[Arkless Electronics]

There is also the fact that some manufacturers deliberately downgrade the SQ of their cheaper amps so they don't compete with amps further up the range..

True!

[walpurgis]

Here's a bit of lateral thinking. What about a top quality vintage amp?

Andy (johnny reggae) has offered a Luxman L-85V recently. These are gorgeous and from the 'golden era' of Japanese amps and superbly made. Great sounding too, delivering a good solid 85 watts of very low distortion sound. The two inputs on the very good phono stage could be handy as well.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?43139-WANTED-Integrated-Amp-with-phono-stage&p=728814#post728814

You might be able to twist his arm to part with it.

A piccie:

http://i64.tinypic.com/70i7au.jpg

[struth]

Yeah wouldnt mind that beaut myself.... Lurvly

[Arkless Electronics]

Here's a bit of lateral thinking. What about a top quality vintage amp?

Andy (johnny reggae) has offered a Luxman L-85V recently. These are gorgeous and from the 'golden era' of Japanese amps and superbly made. Great sounding too, delivering a good solid 85 watts of very low distortion sound. The two inputs on the very good phono stage could be handy as well.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?43139-WANTED-Integrated-Amp-with-phono-stage&p=728814#post728814

You might be able to twist his arm to part with it.

A piccie:

http://i64.tinypic.com/70i7au.jpg

Nice. That should do the trick.

[Brigadoon]

Can anyone throw any light on the oil coming from the volume control?

The seller had clearly tried to 'polish a turd' by soaking the volume control with lubricant, and covering the scratches with permanent marker. Bottom line is the amp had been hammered in a past life, and the seller was trying to pass it off as a minter. This is annoying, but fair play - at least he refunded no quibble.

Don't let this put you off. I have bought many bits on theBay, and most have been fine. The odd lemon has crept in, but that's the nature of buying used, and the reason why you can buy what would cost thousands new for hundreds.. Always an element of risk, but then so is buying new - I have had three recent instances of having to return new items (at some inconvenience) because they're faulty.

Keep up the search Phil. When you find that cracker, it'll be worth it!

[Forkbeard]

The seller had clearly tried to 'polish a turd' by soaking the volume control with lubricant, and covering the scratches with permanent marker. Bottom line is the amp had been hammered in a past life, and the seller was trying to pass it off as a minter. This is annoying, but fair play - at least he refunded no quibble.

Don't let this put you off. I have bought many bits on theBay, and most have been fine. The odd lemon has crept in, but that's the nature of buying used, and the reason why you can buy what would cost thousands new for hundreds.. Always an element of risk, but then so is buying new - I have had three recent instances of having to return new items (at some inconvenience) because they're faulty.

Keep up the search Phil. When you find that cracker, it'll be worth it!

Yes I shall carry on looking Barry but my Mrs keeps telling me to avoid eBay and visit our local Hi-Fi shop in Leicestershire. This shop is called Cymbiosis, I don't think she realises that they only sell very high end stuff such as Naim and Linn :lol:

[Ali Tait]

I'd only call those brands very high end in price..

[Forkbeard]

I'd only call those brands very high end in price..

Do tell me more Ali?

[Brigadoon]

I'd only call those brands very high end in price..

+1

Are you familiar with the story about the Emperor's new clothes...?

[Forkbeard]

+1

Are you familiar with the story about the Emperor's new clothes...?

Indeed I am Barry, is that what those brands are about?

[pgarrish]

I have Monitor Audio Bronze B2 speakers, the lounge is average size and my TT is a Rega P3-24 with TT PSU and a Rega Bias 2 cartridge,

Thanks, Phil.
I use a planar2 with bias and it worked very well with a creek wyndsor phono and a basic rotel 930ax integrated amp. I'd say get a few folk to your place with a mix of amps and see what works, but you will almost certainly get a bigger change with different speakers than changing amps.

[walpurgis]

I'd only call those brands very high end in price..

Linn and Naim are makes I've carefully avoided getting involved with. Having seen costly systems belonging to friends and heard the results.

[SLS]

Yes I shall carry on looking Barry but my Mrs keeps telling me to avoid eBay and visit our local Hi-Fi shop in Leicestershire. This shop is called Cymbiosis, I don't think she realises that they only sell very high end stuff such as Naim and Linn :lol:

Cymbiosis are a Rega dealer, which is excellent and good value. Rega and Harbeth speakers are a frequent combination. You have two Harbeth dealers within an hours drive.

I once called Cymbiosis about Linn and the chap there (Peter?) was very condescending. My dealer is a real bloke - he apparently sheds a tear listening to Leonard Cohen. Respect.

(Said dealer is only 90 minutes from you and is a Rega and Harbeth dealer)

[YNWaN]

I've had quite a few dealings with Peter Swain who owns Cymbiosis and have never found him condescending. In fact he's very honest and genuinely wants the best for his customers.

[Macca]

Not sure why we are talking Harbeth when the op has a budget of £800? That won't even buy the binding posts unless he goes s/h

In any case a Denon micro system is not going to get the best out of the existing Monitor Audios, let alone some Harbeths.

I quite like Roksan amps, they are powerful and clean sounding, quite 'hi-fi' but in a good way. If it were me I would buy the power amp only and match with a passive pre-amp.

[Forkbeard]

Not sure why we are talking Harbeth when the op has a budget of £800? That won't even buy the binding posts unless he goes s/h

In any case a Denon micro system is not going to get the best out of the existing Monitor Audios, let alone some Harbeths.

I quite like Roksan amps, they are powerful and clean sounding, quite 'hi-fi' but in a good way. If it were me I would buy the power amp only and match with a passive pre-amp.

I thought that about the Harbeth speakers as well Martin, bit above my budget :)

[Ronksley]

Very interesting thread real shame about the dud Sony keep looking buying second hand is worth doing can be a hassle think of the money your saving not buying new can be a hassle to
Do keep looking into a Sony they have made some great kit I find there sound a bit dry full of detail and more power than I need and I aint got powerful ones, but for the price I have paid I am more than happy with what i have got
More of a Marantz guy myself have a PM7200 which sounds fantastic but hums

I have two great Sony Amps I have picked up in the last year or so a FA30ES which is great
and a STR-DB795 which I paid peanuts for its a QS AV Receiver with a great FM tuner good DAC as well as being a great amp despite being all the multi channel multi function nonsense

If I had a few hundred quid I would get a second hand Sugden if I had enough a brand new one

Good hunting

[SLS]

I've had quite a few dealings with Peter Swain who owns Cymbiosis and have never found him condescending. In fact he's very honest and genuinely wants the best for his customers.

It may have been because I asked him if he new about Linn. What was I to know? Anyway, he was a little condescending and started going on about setting things up.

To be honest, I don't like products that need more than a trivial amount of setting up. My view is that if something needs fiddling with or parts upgraded, it was badly designed in the first place. Just my view, but I fully appreciate that lots of people like the fiddling side of things, whether cars, audio, whatever.

I don't do flat-pack either.

[SLS]

I thought that about the Harbeth speakers as well Martin, bit above my budget :)


Sorry about that, the mention of Cymbiosis instantly led me to believe there was no budget. Should read the thread a bit closer.

[YNWaN]

As Cymbiosis are one of the UK's most well known Linn dealers it's possible Peter thought you were tacking the Mick when you asked if he 'knew about Linn'!

F1 cars, they need constant attention and setting up - by your logic that's because they are badly designed.

[Brigadoon]

:brickwall:

[Forkbeard]

Sorry about that, the mention of Cymbiosis instantly led me to believe there was no budget. Should read the thread a bit closer.

No worries :lol::lol::lol:

[loonytunes]

Not sure why we are talking Harbeth when the op has a budget of £800? That won't even buy the binding posts unless he goes s/h

In any case a Denon micro system is not going to get the best out of the existing Monitor Audios, let alone some Harbeths.

I quite like Roksan amps, they are powerful and clean sounding, quite 'hi-fi' but in a good way. If it were me I would buy the power amp only and match with a passive pre-amp.

Well I took the opportunity to buy the Roksan K2BT with Power amp especially for this price; price of course isn't everything, you want the sound too. In my experience listening to this combo here you would not go far wrong at all (it's a MOSFET amp if anyone's interested) - it you didn't like it you could move it all on for the same price you bought it for - or as suggested, keep the power amp - lots of choice for you here. I've not heard the Sonys so can't comment, but as I said, at this price you could buy then sell it on for little if any loss if you didn't like it.