View Full Version : Epiphany Acoustics
RobbieGong
08-01-2016, 21:46
I sent an order inquiry email via their website a few days back for some Atratus lll interconnects and a followup pm from here but have heard nothing :scratch:
Epiphany Acoustics is now closed for business.
We would like to thank all our customers and suppliers for supporting us over the years- happy listening!
- See more at: http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/#sthash.VSsIF0QS.dpuf
RobbieGong
08-01-2016, 22:36
Epiphany Acoustics is now closed for business.
We would like to thank all our customers and suppliers for supporting us over the years- happy listening!
- See more at: http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/#sthash.VSsIF0QS.dpuf
Blinkin s&ds law that :steam: Does that mean I'm unlikely to get hold of a pair of the Atratus interconnects from another source ? They also need removing from the Trade section.....
Thanks for the info though Grant
TBH I didn't know they had a trade account :doh: Maybe you will find some on the bay, or put out a request here from members.:)
RobbieGong
08-01-2016, 22:42
It's an odd one Grant, their Atratus lll won all manner of accolade and award last year http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?35425-Host-of-awards-for-Atratus-III-RCA-Interconnects&p=705519#post705519 :scratch: surely its not all just ended, finito like that ?
It is Robert. Something serious must have happened obviously, either financial or personal.
RobbieGong
08-01-2016, 23:04
It is Robert. Something serious must have happened obviously, either financial or personal.
Yeah, you're likely right Grant, shame really (and just my luck)
They also need removing from the Trade section.....
Yup, that'll be getting carried out.
I knew something was up when Oliver didn't pay his trade account this year, despite numerous emails and phone calls.
It's a shame EA has ceased trading, as they made some good cables, but providing some rationale into what happened, along with ensuring that customers (and others) were kept properly informed of the situation, rather than simply winding up the business in silence, would've been useful, and also the courteous and professional thing to have done.
Marco.
I'm unlikely to get hold of a pair of the Atratus interconnects from another source ?
How long do you need them?
Audio Al
09-01-2016, 07:51
How long do you need them?
I think he wants to keep them ;)
jandl100
09-01-2016, 08:02
Epiphany Acoustics is now closed for business.
Oh shite - what a shame :( - fantastic cables the Atratus III. I'll not be selling mine! :nono:
RobbieGong
09-01-2016, 09:56
How long do you need them?
Hi Kevin, I'd sent an email for custom length of 0.75m but obviously I'm more likely to now get a 1m pair from someone which would be fine :)
hifinutt
09-01-2016, 23:11
very sad , just seen the website
wee tee cee
10-01-2016, 15:15
The wee headphone amp was a cracker, still got mine. What a shame.
Always a shame when the little guy takes a hit. :(
They did some great bits of kit.
Life happens sometimes...hope all is well at Epiphany towers.
StanleyB
10-01-2016, 16:07
It's hard going for many small businesses in the UK. Chinese sellers are able to sell things into the UK without having to worry about such things as VAT, and just about any other EU regulations. This puts local businesses at a disadvantage straight away. Running cost of a small business is quite high these days. You really have to sit on some supporting capital in order to avoid interest repayments on loans etc.
It's hard going for many small businesses in the UK. Chinese sellers are able to sell things into the UK without having to worry about such things as VAT, and just about any other EU regulations. This puts local businesses at a disadvantage straight away. Running cost of a small business is quite high these days. You really have to sit on some supporting capital in order to avoid interest repayments on loans etc.
It's hard going for many small businesses in the UK. Chinese sellers are able to sell things into the UK without having to worry about such things as VAT, and just about any other EU regulations. This puts local businesses at a disadvantage straight away. Running cost of a small business is quite high these days. You really have to sit on some supporting capital in order to avoid interest repayments on loans etc.
I just bought in the USA one of the range of products formerly sold by Epiphany. I spoke to the business owner, who sells direct online in the USA with no dealers taking a cut. He will send to the UK, but you pay the Customs handling fee as well as VAT. Speaking to him, it just was not viable to sell the product in the UK at the USA price. I assume Epiphany stopped as it was not viable in the first place.
Suggesting Chinese manufacturers are more competitive because they break the law by not paying tax is disingenuous and an excuse for high UK production and distribution costs. My wife imports goods from China, they put the UK to shame. They produce much cheaper without quality compromise, which is why 80% of European brands are manufactured in the Far East.
The last component I bought was an Auralic Aries Mini. A streamer, DAC and NAS drive with incredible software that cost £375. That includes VAT and UK dealer margin. Tell me something as capable made in the UK at that price.
UK manufacturers have to make globally competitive products and, if they cannot, they are more than likely to fail.
You cannot apply large business models to cottage industries which cannot generate the economies of scale but often produce high quality bespoke items at less than mainstream model prices especially where selling direct is concerned. From that perspective, they represent great VFM. The one valid issue that some may have is product support longer term. Many of us plan to be here for many years to come without risk of being forced to outsource manufacture to the Far East. Just as there are many well and cheaply made items in the Far East, there remain an equal number of false economy cheap and very nasty quality items also eminating from that direction too.
I would hardly accuse Epiphany of marking up all products which saw their premature end, so the comments about Chinese manufacture seem to have have no relevance here. I appreciate that you're not specifically talking about them, but this thread started about them and lumping all small businesses into one comparative model seems a little disingenuous . The reason most fail in the UK is because no one will support them or because they have been wildly unrealistic about sales or profits needed to operate a business to survive, which is in the interests of the customer. The reason no one will support many small businesses is because many people buy on brand, and more specifically, second hand sale strength of brand. There is another point in that much of Far East manufacture has been based on a bubble that is set to burst big time and pricing will start to rise (and already has in some sectors) in China. Lots of companies are relocating either back to Europe or to India.
sq225917
12-02-2016, 09:40
I wonder why he gave it up.
You cannot apply large business models to cottage industries which cannot generate the economies of scale but often produce high quality bespoke items at less than mainstream model prices especially where selling direct is concerned. From that perspective, they represent great VFM. The one valid issue that some may have is product support longer term. Many of us plan to be here for many years to come without risk of being forced to outsource manufacture to the Far East. Just as there are many well and cheaply made items in the Far East, there remain an equal number of false economy cheap and very nasty quality items also eminating from that direction too.
I would hardly accuse Epiphany of marking up all products which saw their premature end, so the comments about Chinese manufacture seem to have have no relevance here. I appreciate that you're not specifically talking about them, but this thread started about them and lumping all small businesses into one comparative model seems a little disingenuous . The reason most fail in the UK is because no one will support them or because they have been wildly unrealistic about sales or profits needed to operate a business to survive, which is in the interests of the customer. The reason no one will support many small businesses is because many people buy on brand, and more specifically, second hand sale strength of brand. There is another point in that much of Far East manufacture has been based on a bubble that is set to burst big time and pricing will start to rise (and already has in some sectors) in China. Lots of companies are relocating either back to Europe or to India.
The thread was about Epiphany closing. The product I was referring to was from JDS Labs, which I understand Epiphany rebadged. I am an accountant and it took me 10 minutes speaking to them to work out that there was no way of profitably importing into the UK. There is just no space for a dealer margin when the product is being sold direct online. There are an increasing number of such suppliers. I've been considering a passive pre-amp and all three options are direct online - Khozmo and Hattor (the same guy in Poland) and Tortuga Audio (in Florida). All such items are relatively cheap as there are no distributor or dealer margins, have been reviewed so they are likely to work, and are cheap to send internationally. Just remember to add the VAT to the price.
I also see that Epiphany tried to sell JDS Labs products on Amazon UK. My wife is an Amazon reseller. I know the costs. It is not viable. Cannot compete with buying it direct from JDS Labs online. (I bought their superb DAC for $165.)
I cannot see any future for electronics manufacturing in Europe other than volume direct sales (JDS Labs in the USA sell many thousands of units per annum) or at the very high end where price is almost irrelevant. A small cottage industry may well remain, but of no significance to the market overall.
Speakers are slightly different because they are sometimes bulky and the electronics are a relatively small proportion of the manufacture cost. Still, most are made in the Far East. I've had UK made speakers, PMC and more recently two pairs of Harbeth. The cabinets are production-line made in the same factory to a very high standard. Made bespoke would cost about three times the price. I know because I once got a quote. Curiously, the SHL5+ probably costs more to make than the PMC Fact.8, but sells for half the price. PMC market heavily, Harbeth hardly at all (they don't need to). You can't copy a Harbeth speaker because the heart of the range is the Radial 2 driver, made in-house and not sold to third parties.
The relevance of China is that I replied to a post that implied Chinese goods have an advantage through fraudulent non-payment of tax. Not true. My family made products consisting of brass hand-turned in Birmingham and coloured glass made in France (extremely difficult to make, has to be cooled over 2 days). The business was profitable for 80 years. Then the Taiwanese worked out how to make the glass, they managed to make the same product to the same quality and it arrived in UK bond at half the price. So still a third cheaper even after paying VAT and Duty. So my father closed the company.
I used to go to the brass factories as a kid. I was in Birmingham a year back - not a lot of brass turning going on.
I don't consider there to be separate business models for large or small companies. Ever since commerce started the basic principle is to generate enough gross profit to cover overheads and make a profit. It doesn't matter if you focus on high margins/low volume (UK cottage hifi, Waitrose), low margins/high volume (Japanese hifi, ASDA) or low product costs (Chinese hifi, Tesco - when Jack Cohen started he focused on buying cheap), it comes to the same thing - you need enough gross profit to pay overheads - and if anyone thinks they can cheat that system, they won't last long.
The thread was about Epiphany closing. The product I was referring to was from JDS Labs, which I understand Epiphany rebadged. I am an accountant and it took me 10 minutes speaking to them to work out that there was no way of profitably importing into the UK. There is just no space for a dealer margin when the product is being sold direct online. There are an increasing number of such suppliers. I've been considering a passive pre-amp and all three options are direct online - Khozmo and Hattor (the same guy in Poland) and Tortuga Audio (in Florida). All such items are relatively cheap as there are no distributor or dealer margins, have been reviewed so they are likely to work, and are cheap to send internationally. Just remember to add the VAT to the price.
I also see that Epiphany tried to sell JDS Labs products on Amazon UK. My wife is an Amazon reseller. I know the costs. It is not viable. Cannot compete with buying it direct from JDS Labs online. (I bought their superb DAC for $165.)
I cannot see any future for electronics manufacturing in Europe other than volume direct sales (JDS Labs in the USA sell many thousands of units per annum) or at the very high end where price is almost irrelevant. A small cottage industry may well remain, but of no significance to the market overall.
Speakers are slightly different because they are sometimes bulky and the electronics are a relatively small proportion of the manufacture cost. Still, most are made in the Far East. I've had UK made speakers, PMC and more recently two pairs of Harbeth. The cabinets are production-line made in the same factory to a very high standard. Made bespoke would cost about three times the price. I know because I once got a quote. Curiously, the SHL5+ probably costs more to make than the PMC Fact.8, but sells for half the price. PMC market heavily, Harbeth hardly at all (they don't need to). You can't copy a Harbeth speaker because the heart of the range is the Radial 2 driver, made in-house and not sold to third parties.
The relevance of China is that I replied to a post that implied Chinese goods have an advantage through fraudulent non-payment of tax. Not true. My family made products consisting of brass hand-turned in Birmingham and coloured glass made in France (extremely difficult to make, has to be cooled over 2 days). The business was profitable for 80 years. Then the Taiwanese worked out how to make the glass, they managed to make the same product to the same quality and it arrived in UK bond at half the price. So still a third cheaper even after paying VAT and Duty. So my father closed the company.
I used to go to the brass factories as a kid. I was in Birmingham a year back - not a lot of brass turning going on.
I don't consider there to be separate business models for large or small companies. Ever since commerce started the basic principle is to generate enough gross profit to cover overheads and make a profit. It doesn't matter if you focus on high margins/low volume (UK cottage hifi, Waitrose), low margins/high volume (Japanese hifi, ASDA) or low product costs (Chinese hifi, Tesco - when Jack Cohen started he focused on buying cheap), it comes to the same thing - you need enough gross profit to pay overheads - and if anyone thinks they can cheat that system, they won't last long.
We'll simply agree to differ then ;). Many small businesses selling direct do not need the profits of larger companies and that affects business model as does turnover required to stay afloat. Yes, electronic goods are certainly an example of where we cannot compete with China on productivity but there remains a variable quality issue with many goods which is undeniable. That's down to quality control and how much companies are willing to invest in it. I've seen some of the loudspeakers coming out of China and wouldn't give you tuppence for most of them...Always exceptions but you're dealing with two very different markets when trying to compare mass produced boxes of MDF to bespoke high quality pieces made to fine furniture standards. Companies tend not to mass produce those because it's uneconomic to do so and stay in competition. This brings us neatly back to the business model of smaller companies, often based upon materials costs plus hourly rates commensurate with skills involved, and not a quadrupling of manufacturing and materials costs.
It should also be noted that the Amazon rule is that any dissatisfaction is met with an immediate refund or replacement - or both. It actually works because of the volume sales Amazon can generate. In my wife's Amazon business experience, the cost of this policy is minimal. Amazon also has a rule that if the product is faulty they bear the return delivery cost, if the customer simply does not want the item the customer pays the return delivery cost.
This should be the rule for all online sellers. It makes the concept of fixing things irrelevant. It is also why I buy just about everything, including electronics, on Amazon.
The idea that the Chinese or other Far East manufacturers cannot make quality products is the oldest excuse in the book and plain wrong. It is down to the customer to specify. If you want cheap crap that has a high failure rate they will make it, if you want high quality tested close to destruction they will make it at a higher cost. Negotiating wth the Chinese is simple as you just pay for each additional process required.
There is a simple business concept. Starting on 1 January, by what date do you expect to generate enough gross profit to cover annual overheads? In my small business it is 2 February. In some of my larger competitors it is early October. If it after 31 December, then a rethink is required. I fear there are a lot of UK audio companies, or ex-audio companies, who never thought about things like this.
Whilst having a rant about bad business practices, I have always been of the view that if people are prepared to trust to luck as opposed to planning a business, they might as well go to the casino as it will be more fun and if they lose it will be over quicker.
I previously posted (possibly somewhere else) about Linn. Love them or hate them, they have a clear business strategy, they state it in their annual report, they achieve it and make a nice profit - in a highly competitive market and not necessarily with superior products. So I take my hat off to them.
Speakers are slightly different because they are sometimes bulky and the electronics are a relatively small proportion of the manufacture cost. Still, most are made in the Far East. I've had UK made speakers, PMC and more recently two pairs of Harbeth. The cabinets are production-line made in the same factory to a very high standard. Made bespoke would cost about three times the price. I know because I once got a quote. Curiously, the SHL5+ probably costs more to make than the PMC Fact.8, but sells for half the price. PMC market heavily, Harbeth hardly at all (they don't need to). You can't copy a Harbeth speaker because the heart of the range is the Radial 2 driver, made in-house and not sold to third parties.
The PMC's, these and the '20' series, are made for high profit margins for themselves and their dealers I understand, the drive units being rather 'ordinary' and 'basic' it appears. The 'H' company are doing very well indeed at present and have done for years, but this is down to fastidious and almost paranoid company management and very thorough product research, design and marketing, even if you're not keen on the finished products. Spendor also look to be back on track now after a bad time some years ago (I'm suspecting over-expensive product builds rather than lack of business) and now they own a successfully speaker cabinet maker too, they should be alright I hope.
anthonyTD
12-02-2016, 12:14
I did respond earlier, however, i decided, what's the point, in the grand scheme of things, folk who genuinely care, and appreciate products made by small companies here in the UK, will be in the minority for some time to come, However, as has been seen' time and time again, once these businesses are gone, thats it.
When you build something bespoke, on a small scale, you put a large part of yourself, and time into that product.
The idea that the Chinese or other Far East manufacturers cannot make quality products is the oldest excuse in the book and plain wrong. It is down to the customer to specify. If you want cheap crap that has a high failure rate they will make it, if you want high quality tested close to destruction they will make it at a higher cost. Negotiating wth the Chinese is simple as you just pay for each additional process required.
There is a simple business concept. Starting on 1 January, by what date do you expect to generate enough gross profit to cover annual overheads? In my small business it is 2 February. In some of my larger competitors it is early October. If it after 31 December, then a rethink is required. I fear there are a lot of UK audio companies, or ex-audio companies, who never thought about things like this.
Oh dear...there are some things that you simply cannot specify for mass production and expect to remain competitive or to retain ultimate quality control plus you lose that more personable relationship with clients for more bespoke work...this is all very relevant to small businesses like mine which you appear to totally misunderstand as understandably you probably lack experience in some of these more specialised fields. I am surprised at your attitude as with your business experience you should know better. But what the heck, no amount of reasoned discussion will sway you from your "you're wrong and I'm right" attitude. There are grey areas which appear to have past your black and white view of the world. Nothing personal but I'll bow out of this discussion now and leave you to your world of amazon ;)
I did respond earlier, however, i decided, what's the point, in the grand scheme of things, folk who genuinely care, and appreciate products made by small companies here in the UK, will be in the minority for some time to come, However, as has been seen' time and time again, once these businesses are gone, thats it.
When you build something bespoke, on a small scale, you put a large part of yourself, and time into that product.
Spot on Anthony:)
The PMC's, these and the '20' series, are made for high profit margins for themselves and their dealers I understand, the drive units being rather 'ordinary' and 'basic' it appears. The 'H' company are doing very well indeed at present and have done for years, but this is down to fastidious and almost paranoid company management and very thorough product research, design and marketing, even if you're not keen on the finished products. Spendor also look to be back on track now after a bad time some years ago (I'm suspecting over-expensive product builds rather than lack of business) and now they own a successfully speaker cabinet maker too, they should be alright I hope.
jeez, we are back in the 14th century now, owning people:ner:
PS no business model is black n white, just shades of both and occasional red
The PMC's, these and the '20' series, are made for high profit margins for themselves and their dealers I understand, the drive units being rather 'ordinary' and 'basic' it appears. The 'H' company are doing very well indeed at present and have done for years, but this is down to fastidious and almost paranoid company management and very thorough product research, design and marketing, even if you're not keen on the finished products. Spendor also look to be back on track now after a bad time some years ago (I'm suspecting over-expensive product builds rather than lack of business) and now they own a successfully speaker cabinet maker too, they should be alright I hope.
Correct in all respects. I heard some of the PMC drive units cost £12 in a speaker costing £6,500. That said, they make most of their drivers in-house and their world-renowned 15" Radial driver is in all their larger (SE) consumer units and pro units. PMC and Harbeth are two of the most successful pro studio monitor companies, along with B&W.
I think the PMC '20' range is a brilliantly conceived consumer range - very domestic friendly (a major factor in their design, my wife loved the Fact.8's), voiced for target market needs with a clear upgrade path. They are expensive relative to cost, but well marketed with many happy customers.
I love Harbeth simply because of their sound. I actually hate the look and listen with the lights dimmed most of the time. Nothing comes close to performance in my experience, particularly the retained dynamics at low volume. There is some market pressure for the BBC licensed designs to be in roughly the same price territory, but Harbeth are a bit more expensive and can't manufacture fast enough for demand. I understand the cabinets and drivers haven't changed in decades, the only changes in recent years have been modification from Radial to Radial 2 and cross-over voicing in consumer units more to consumer than pro demands.
In business terms PMC and Harbeth are small companies, started from nothing and relatively new (PMC about 1990 and Harbeth 1977, under Alan Shaw since 1986), but well managed in different ways and consistently successful and growing, pro and consumer, mostly exporting. What they have in common is a supremely good product. Without that, you have nothing.
It is also noticeable that Peter Thomas and Alan Shaw both front their companies around the world, are technically and business astute, and passionate about what they do. I have spoken to both (I meet a lot of successful businessmen) and find them both very impressive.
I was doing some research recently and recall seeing that Pioneer had sold its audio division to Onkyo. Pioneer was operating its audio at a loss. Even with their volumes and efficiencies and cheap distribution (Amazon, Richer Sounds in the UK), if they can't make a profit, the idea that some home-baked little electronics company can compete is almost laughable.
I agree it isn't quite black and white.
A large company can sell a product at a loss for a long time without going under - this may be by accident (poor cost control, bad maths) or a deliberate attempt to gain a market presence. I believe Sony used to sell some of their CD players at a loss for that reason. If they have other products that make a profit this can be kept going indefinitely.
The biggest mistake small operations tend to make is not to have enough capital to cover themselves, especially if they have contracts with larger companies who will pay when they feel like it.
There is also the issue with smaller companies in that they are started by someone who is unemployable, either because they are useless or because their personality is so extreme they wouldn't last long working for someone else. They fail because they decide on their selling price first, instead of setting the selling price at costs plus profit. Then they don't notice that isn't working until the bank freeze their overdraft facility.
Oh dear...there are some things that you simply cannot specify for mass production and expect to remain competitive or to retain ultimate quality control plus you lose that more personable relationship with clients for more bespoke work...this is all very relevant to small businesses like mine which you appear to totally misunderstand as understandably you probably lack experience in some of these more specialised fields. I am surprised at your attitude as with your business experience you should know better. But what the heck, no amount of reasoned discussion will sway you from your "you're wrong and I'm right" attitude. There are grey areas which appear to have past your black and white view of the world. Nothing personal but I'll bow out of this discussion now and leave you to your world of amazon ;)
Spot on Anthony:)
I have no problem with bespoke. I have a lot of bespoke furniture at home. It costs a lot of money and cannot be mass produced.
Most of it was made by
http://rickbakerltd.com/gallery/
Image 45 in the gallery is Rowan Atkinson's TV (the Latin inscription is rather amusing), quite a few of these images are from Roger Waters' country gaff, including his loo at image 29.
The owner of this business was getting commissions from royalty (he did work for Diana at Kensington Palace) and still ran into business difficulties. He got back on his feet and with proper financial management is still doing well 25 years later.
If he could have made me a beautiful pair of speaker cabinets that could then have sounded as good as Harbeth I would have done that. I discussed it with him. It just was not possible. It was not a matter of cost. So I have ugly speakers that sound incredible, but to me it is the sound that counts. The rest of my hifi is hidden away in a (custom-made) unit, so looks are irrelevant.
On the other hand, I had a custom electric guitar made by a luthier for my son. He makes all sorts - lutes, violins etc., many for professional musicians. He could have hand-made the body and neck, but you cannot beat on quality and price custom parts from Warmoth, near Seattle. I think the body and neck cost about $1,100. Everything else was hand-made. The cost (£2,500) was less than you could hope from Fender Custom or Gibson Custom, and his guitar is without doubt better. It's also beautiful.
For the amount of innovation in British audio over the last 80 years I despair somewhat at its present relative lack of commercial success. I look at all sorts of businesses, big and small, some well managed, some not. Yesterday I was with the ex-CEO of a FTSE 250 company that was on the point of collapse. It occurred to me that smaller manufacturers could operate through a marketing co-operative. Some industries do that in the UK, other examples are Italian wine producers.
anthonyTD
12-02-2016, 13:43
Some beautiful furniture there! :)
Your very lucky to own some of it.
A...
Some beautiful furniture there! :)
Your very lucky to own some of it.
A...
If only I owned some of that !!! Mine is a little more modest, but made to the same level of craftsmanship.
IImage 45 in the gallery is Rowan Atkinson's TV (the Latin inscription is rather amusing), .
.
'Open the doors to reveal the world'
Very good :)
I did respond earlier, however, i decided, what's the point, in the grand scheme of things, folk who genuinely care, and appreciate products made by small companies here in the UK, will be in the minority for some time to come, However, as has been seen' time and time again, once these businesses are gone, thats it.
When you build something bespoke, on a small scale, you put a large part of yourself, and time into that product.
Croft and LFD are good examples.
Is there a suggestion that people who work in large companies do not make the same level of personal investment? You can buy a brilliant network player receiver from Pioneer for under £300 because they too have brilliant people who invest themselves in their work. Just because it turns up in a box from Amazon, does not stop me recognising what an achievement that is.
And how about Xuanqian Wang and Yuan Wang? Geniuses, both. And they started their audio business from scratch less than 10 years ago. Read here.
http://www.auralic.com/en/#5
Well done.
I saw it in the workshop - a thing of beauty. No good for a 55" LED.
'Open the doors to reveal the world'
Very good :)
anthonyTD
12-02-2016, 14:18
That was not the point i was trying to make!
You seem like a sensible guy, therefore you should know better! ;)
Croft and LFD are good examples.
Is there a suggestion that people who work in large companies do not make the same level of personal investment? You can buy a brilliant network player receiver from Pioneer for under £300 because they too have brilliant people who invest themselves in their work. Just because it turns up in a box from Amazon, does not stop me recognising what an achievement that is.
And how about Xuanqian Wang and Yuan Wang? Geniuses, both. And they started their audio business from scratch less than 10 years ago. Read here.
http://www.auralic.com/en/#5
That was not the point i was trying to make!
You seem like a sensible guy, therefore you should know better! ;)
Know better about what?
The other piece of advice most businesses get from their accountant is succession planning. How many of these smaller business will die when the owner packs it in, even if successful. Croft or LFD might be one of those.
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