View Full Version : Best Kept Secrets?
Beechwoods
19-10-2009, 21:38
I thought it'd be intriguing to hear what 'people thought were hi-fi's best kept secrets? What's the collective wisdom on 'the next big thing', or the old stuff that's due a second chance?
Lenco turntables used to be unjustly overlooked, but they have had a revival in recent years and the prices are starting to rise (especially for the Garrard-a-like 88 and 99 armless models).
Quad amplifiers punch above their weight, and are often under-valued on the second hand market. I am extremely pleased with mine. And they have a lot of potential for improvement in small increments.
I'd be interested in what you all have to say on the subject... goo'ahn, don't be shy!
Nick you are right, the obvious contenders such as: Garrard 301’s and 401’s; anything by Quad, Radford, Leak and Lowther are already going for absurd prices.
Thorens TD124 II’s now go for > £400 and anything by EMT went through the roof years ago (The 930st fetches > £2000 today), and we all know about SP10’s.
LS3/5A’s fetch silly money even for tatty ex-BBC samples and so do SME arms (3009/II > £400, 3012/II > £1000)! The prices people will pay for old Decca and Ortofon cartridges, has to be seen to be believed.
I think the next ‘sleepers’ to be spotted might be the Ferrograph S-1 speaker and the Armstrong range of electronics. The Goldring G88 and G99 and the early Connoisseur turntables are up there as well. As for arms, the Grace 707, 714 and Audio Technica ATP-12 could be the next sought-after arms.
Some of the older speakers such as the Goodmans Magnum K, early KEF’s and B+W's might come into the frame.
And probably anything mentioned by Hi Fi World in their ‘classics’ section!
Cheers
As far as budget amps go, A&R Cambridge A60 - been mentioned on here a couple of times, and ebay prices are creeping up, as they are for the early Creek 4040.
The Grand Wazoo
19-10-2009, 23:39
I'm almost afraid to mention anything by name in case it adds to the effect of driving the price up.
Barry's completely right, of course about Hi-Fi World.
I also predict the value of FM tuners will plummet as soon as 'it' happens. (But that's hardly earth shattering news, is it?)
Sooner or later, someone's going to twig on that the very old style Meridian pre/power amps were a bit special & can be had for peanuts.
hifi_dave
20-10-2009, 09:43
As above.
Are you sure you want to start talking about products, because as soon as you do, the prices on E-Bay just rocket...:doh:
Even ten years ago we wouldn't dream of paying more than £50 for a Leak Stereo 20 or £100 for a Radford. As for dinosaurs like 301, 401, TD124 etc, they were £20 a go. Goldring's ? when I shut my shop in 2005, I threw a dozen GL75's in the skip - who wanted them ???
Just keep it all hush, hush.:eyebrows:
Rare Bird
20-10-2009, 10:02
Well i'll plug Quad cos i love the early models.
Quad 303, arnt going for that much really. Net audio are attracting a lot of attention & potential.
The Quad 50E arnt attracting & going for peanuts! why i have no idea, they have everything thing: Mono blocks, they use output transformers for the valve type sound.Will take astonishing loads, handle absolutly any speaker with ease.Were once installed in many top notch places, Abbey road etc, pink floyd used to use em.With all early Quads they are mega reliable, the amps designs never fail, if anything goes it's a electronic component.
FM-3 is a loverly looking & sounding tuner but fail to fetch high prices.
The 33 yes isnt the best pre but sound pleasant, i can live with one quite easily & do.
Static 57's fetch reasonably prices but your taking on a serious chance buying, if not working correctly can be extremely expensive to eradicate, they are a hard load to deal with unless you have a good valve amp.these aspects will put a lot off.
Quad 'II' fetch good prices but i personally don't like em.
Series 3 are timeless classics to me, that orange & green is just pure sex, a lot don't like it infact a lot hate it, i absolutly love it, the best ever looking hifi components IMHO.
Some rose tinting going on here methinks...
To Barry.Hunt - The S1 ferrogragh got rotten reviews when first launched, although I loved the look of it. At KJ in 1976, we bought around twenty five pairs of S2's, which sounded great apart from a slight "sparkle" up top (I could have bought some at "trade" for £108pr, but BC1's came along instead). I've no idea what the difference between S1's and S2's was, but I suspect the crossover got a going over..
I came into audio around the time the Armstrong 600 series was launched (1972) and they weren't very good at all, apart from the tuners. The 600 amp was slightly unstable, although London Sound claim to have a mod to fix this. My own sample "motor-boated" right from new and I soon disposed of it. In comparison with a Creek 4040 some years later, the Creek annihilated a client's 621 amp, to be honest, although I have to say that by the very end of its production life (when the last samples were being cleared out at discount via Comet etc.), it began to show it's decent true colours and a 626 receiver we had on dem around 1979 compared well with an A&R A60 IIRC.
The A60 is a great little amp and well worth buying as long as the price doesn't creep up to £100 or so. The Creek 4140 was also very good, although with modern sources, the Delta 60 may well be a better Arcam, although it's not as "relaxed" as the A60 for some reason (many amps from the late 80's onwards seemed to be set almost at the point of ringing to make them sound "exciting" and this may be the problem with the Delta 60 model, along with most Naims from the CB and Olive era anyway).
Dual turntables - OK, I own one and have had this 701 for twenty years now. The old idler models from 1216 up had good arms and a stable drive. Parts come up on fleabay regularly too and if well fettled, should sound good in the Rega class as long as the motor is well decoupled on its suspension. new-old-stock idlers can be obtained although this shouldn't be necessary. The later Duals were a mixed bag and the 700 series models replacing mine weren't as good for some reason. The 505 series isn't really a "HiFi" grade deck today, being far too "splattery" and crude, even with a better cartridge (OM20 stylus or AT95E)..
Some of the better receivers may be worth a punt, although caps will be wearing out by now. HK did some good ones in the 70's..
Other "sleepers?" - KEF Chorale, Corelli, Cadenza, Concerto, R104AB (only the AB version) all sound great on a modern system and there are others like the Concord III/Chorale III (the ones with cloth "body stockings" on).
More to come later, but I have to work now...
Dave,
When I mentioned the Ferrograph speaker I didn't know if it was the S1 or S2. I have read some good reviews of one of them; perhaps it was the S2 - whichever one it is that Ken Ishiwara of Marantz thinks so well of.
I had in mind the Armstrong valve electronics.
Would agree with you about KEF, especially the 104AB.
Regards
Rare Bird
20-10-2009, 12:40
Dave:
Hi
As far as i'm aware there was no 'S2', Maybe an improved 'S1'..The 'S1' came out about 1971 & was around 90.00 quidish..vastly esculated in price by mid to late '70's 230.00 quidish. The design was said to be a transmission line type but wasnt in reality. Bass units were Kef B139, other units Audax. I went to buy a pair of these just the other day,i think i mentioned this to Marco the mid & treble unit had been replaced so i left them.There a very big speakers & weigh a ton if anyones not seen a pair.I was shocked to find they are now on a Rubbish dump
:steam:
anthonyTD
20-10-2009, 13:54
hi all,
one line of electronics that have been over-looked by many is from the early days of kits, ie; heathkit. some of their designs eg, amplifiers were pretty good and it was a real joy to build any of their kits as they were meticulously instructed. and you can find self built and factory built versions for not a lot of money!!
A...
Rare Bird
20-10-2009, 14:39
One that don't get looked at are David Haflers ''Hafler'', these were also Sold Kit & Built..I had a 'DH220' power amp for some time was okidoki.Dynaco have a following but don't seem to fetch much..Dynaco can still be bought anyway..
Beechwoods
20-10-2009, 16:48
hi all,
one line of electronics that have been over-looked by many is from the early days of kits, ie; heathkit. some of their designs eg, amplifiers were pretty good and it was a real joy to build any of their kits as they were meticulously instructed. and you can find self built and factory built versions for not a lot of money!!
A...
My Dad had a Heathkit Tuner which I used for a while until I got my Sugden R21, and later, my FM3. It was a very good tuner - I have a load of tapes made using it as a source, with a good external aerial.
Keep em coming chaps. If you don't want to spill the beans and drive up prices, just PM me ;) I'd be particularly keen to hear about underrated monster speakers!
Rare Bird
20-10-2009, 17:10
Audiomaster Speakers
Some Tangent Speakers
Diesis Speakers (Pre Ruark)
Some old Swallow Speakers (Dalesford Units)
Original Meridian Actives.
Gale - GS401A (Chrome ends)
Very first castle Acoustic 5 way 'Howards'
ARC 101/102/103
All worth a blast.
I wonder how many Dynatron units were junked complete with Lenco 75s. I think some may even have used 401s.
Mike Reed
20-10-2009, 18:15
Dave,
I had in mind the Armstrong valve electronics.
Would agree with you about KEF, especially the 104AB.
Regards
Audio kit was perceived differently in the sixties and early seventies; fancy cables, dedicated mains, supports and w.h.y. simply weren't around, let alone de rigeur. One connected any old whichaway with any old cable/connections.
I had at least two Armstrongs and a pair of 104ABs. The former were nothing to shout about sonically c.f. then current amps. The Kefs were okay, but rather too civilised, and if my memory serves, the Leaks which followed, and especially big Goodmans home-built 3-way speakers, were much better.
The 301/401 and especially the Thorens (virtually all) deserve their renaissance (though I'm dubious about idler wheel drive). None of these compare to modern high-end decks with outboard motors and power supplies, I feel. The Goldrings were definitely a couple of steps down; then and now; in price and sonic capability.
I've recently heard a 'refurbished' and plinthed GL75 with Jelco arm and Straingauge cart. Yup, a lot better than it was in those days (through Quicksilver amps. and enormous Klipsh Jubilee horns). I bet that system would sound even better with a Michell or w.h.y.
Great fun. bringing all these audio dinasaurs into the 21st century, but don't let's get carried away with ideas of resurrecting forgotten brilliance.
Mike Reed
20-10-2009, 18:19
As above.
Goldring's ? when I shut my shop in 2005, I threw a dozen GL75's in the skip - who wanted them ???
Their lies the reason for the GL75 revival; scarcity !
Mike,
You've obviously been out of the loop for while. There are many of us who have ditched our top range Michell's, Linn's, Nottingham's etc in favour of a Garrard or even Lenco. I'm sure it's to do with the drive system. Rubber band drive simply doesn't cut it, hense the return to vintage idler and direct drives including those Technics so liked here. A resurgance in TT's driven these ways would not surprise me.
See http://www.trans-fi.com/turntables.htm
Greg
Have to agree with Greg on this and the Salvation on the Trans Fi site that Greg linked too is awesome
Dave:
Hi
As far as i'm aware there was no 'S2', Maybe an improved 'S1'..The 'S1' came out about 1971 & was around 90.00 quidish..vastly esculated in price by mid to late '70's 230.00 quidish. The design was said to be a transmission line type but wasnt in reality. Bass units were Kef B139, other units Audax. I went to buy a pair of these just the other day,i think i mentioned this to Marco the mid & treble unit had been replaced so i left them.There a very big speakers & weigh a ton if anyones not seen a pair.I was shocked to find they are now on a Rubbish dump
:steam:
I swear that it was the "S2" that we had a batch of. maybe they never went into proper production, but S2 they were, with the cruciform footed-with-castors pillar stands too. We had a good many pairs to shift and shift we did.
I can't remember where the odd review came from, but I think it was the infamous A MacK HiFi Choice book from 1976... It was, i just checked. "Cotton woolly and coloured" was one comment, although they may have damaged the crossovers in the high-power testing they did before listening tests commenced (I saw the evidence on one model they annihilated..).
Armstrong valve amps. far too early for me I'm afraid ;)
Rare Bird
20-10-2009, 21:40
Dave:
Do you have a pic of em anywhere.The 'S1' was still on sale in '76..You sure it wasnt a neal product? I have an indepth Ferro book no signs of S2!
In 1977, falling sales of the Super 7 and Logic 7 resulted in heavy financial losses for the company. In order to safeguard jobs the National Enterprise Board arranged a marriage between Ferrograph and North East Audio Ltd (NEAL). Wilmot Breedon sold the Ferrograph company for £500K. Other parts of the Wilmot Breedon were also in trouble. In January 1977, the Wayne Kerr division went onto a 3 day week "due to a run down in orders". Although short-time working at Wayne Kerr only lasted for 3 months, but the electronics division made losses of nearly £500K due partly to Ferrograph and partly to Rendar.
Neal took on the production of the whole product range except for the ARA1 cathode ray tube response unit, although this may be supplied in future under an O.E.M arrangement with Wayne Kerr.
You see the 'S1' ran upto the end of the brand..
Soundhaspriority
21-10-2009, 00:56
I thought it'd be intriguing to hear what 'people thought were hi-fi's best kept secrets? What's the collective wisdom on 'the next big thing', or the old stuff that's due a second chance?
Lenco turntables used to be unjustly overlooked, but they have had a revival in recent years and the prices are starting to rise (especially for the Garrard-a-like 88 and 99 armless models).
Quad amplifiers punch above their weight, and are often under-valued on the second hand market. I am extremely pleased with mine. And they have a lot of potential for improvement in small increments.
I'd be interested in what you all have to say on the subject... goo'ahn, don't be shy!
I would add the Sugden Connoisseur, because while weak at both extremes, if properly tuned, it has a midrange with more PRAT than I have heard from any other decks. That and anything by Richard Hay.
Stratmangler
21-10-2009, 11:20
I would add the Sugden Connoisseur, because while weak at both extremes, if properly tuned, it has a midrange with more PRAT than I have heard from any other decks. That and anything by Richard Hay.
It is a real shame to ask this question, seeing as someone does not have the right of reply, but here goes.
What tuning is recommended for this deck ?
Chris:)
Rare Bird
21-10-2009, 11:42
It is a real shame to ask this question, seeing as someone does not have the right of reply, but here goes.
What tuning is recommended for this deck ?
Chris:)
Out of the Connoisseur decks i think i'd opt for the Connoisseur 'Craftsman' Motor unit.
Stratmangler
21-10-2009, 11:46
Out of the Connoisseur decks i think i'd opt for the Connoisseur 'Classic' Motor unit.
Thanks André - I 'cede to your superior knowledge of this deck. I was thinking more along the lines of more "out there" tweaks.
Chris:lolsign:
Rare Bird
21-10-2009, 12:02
Thanks André - I 'cede to your superior knowledge of this deck. I was thinking more along the lines of more "out there" tweaks.
Chris:lolsign:
Sorry Chris my mistake meant to say 'Craftsman' not 'Classic'.. Decks like 'BD-2' have intergral arms like the Goldring 'GL-75' etc etc, not much hope really..BD-2 for example has motor mounting issues, Technical & General, London used to sort you out will all things A.R.Sugden especially the motor rubber mounts, but i don't know if they are still active..Read an article once where an italian guy totally remodled a 'BD-2' with outboard motor!
btw A.R & J.E wernt the same Sugden company
We took Ferrograph back on right at the end of the Super 7 era and we did have some F307 amps as well as the speakers, which looked identical to the S1, except for a different coloured stripey grille cloth perhaps? Our engineers knew the series 7 models as apparently, you often had to take the things apart from the rear forwards to change the speed selector mounted on the front...
From what you say above, I suspect this was a short-lived project that never went into proper production. A shame the Logic 7 didn't stay around longer. I liked this deck very much.....
We also had the restyled amps and tuner and I have a faulty tuner in the loft from this era. The bigger amp wasn't at all bad but felt cheap and nasty compared with its far eastern competition. We also had NEAL as well and the decks were very good, if "clunky."
TTFN
D
Rare Bird
21-10-2009, 12:35
Hi Dave thanks for that..
I'm guessing it was a 'S1.2' The 'S1' i know had Kef units/Audax units, but roumers are their was Goodmans units involved somwhere, maybe this ties in with this 'S2' model you mention..Nothing defined in text books about it tho.
btw the last Ferro machine was the 'Studio 8' wasnt a Ferro machine it was a sub contracted machine badged up complete with enormous price tag of a few grand...As you mentioned the amps The 20+20(F208) & even worse 60+60 (F308) asthetically matched the Studio 8..The odball was the STFM1 Tuner.
Out of all the Ferro products the F307 Mk.1/2, the Super 7 (75) & the beautiful 'Logic 7' open reels..Are my favs...The Super 7 though was technically a standard Series 7 with new body & 10.5" reels.
pure sound
21-10-2009, 12:59
Adam Smith (the Hifi World reviewer) played a pair of S1's at the Scalford Pie-Fi show earlier this year. They weren't my cup of tea but were generally well received from what I remember.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/wigwam_0382.jpg
Rare Bird
21-10-2009, 13:04
Actually the only reason i was gonna go to that chesterfields bake off was to listern to beomans 'S1' no other reason..I heard people like them aswell.
pure sound
21-10-2009, 13:14
I'd perhaps have liked to have heard them with an amp other than a Nait5 or whatever it was he used.
Rare Bird
21-10-2009, 13:15
That might have been a good idea Guy... I'm suprise you didnt recommend the not too vintage Heybrook HB-1/3 speakers!
Mick Parry
21-10-2009, 13:53
Chaps
You have all got it wrong.
New houses are being built smaller and smaller and hence everything in it will have to be small.
You talk to any antique dealer and they will confirm, small is good and big is bad. I recently bought a large Georgian bureau fairly cheaply just because it was big.
This means looking forward, anything bigger than a matchbox is due to be unwanted, no matter how good it is.
I have a Naim system, mounted in a Hutter rack and it takes up a large amount of space. My Briks also soak up carpet space. I am ok, I live in a bigger than average house but even the traditional 2 bed terrace has more space than most new builds.
So mini systems are the thing of the future and sad to say, grumpy old Ashley could end up a millionaire.
Forget your classics, just think tape measures.
Regards
Mick
Too true!! Our little Victorian sitting room looks a little dominated by the BC2's, and they were small compared with the large B&W's, 'Briks and IMF's we sold so many of, let alone the BC3 which was quite a bit bigger (not as smooth but could sound good if driven right).
I wish I'd taken some pics of our dem-room at the time, pre Linn/Naim. The S2's certainly weren't small, as, like the 'Briks, they had a B139 bass unit laying horizontally as I recall and this would dictate the width of around 14" or so.
Sorry to go on about these, but I really liked them at the time and found them enjoyable to listen to. They really need more grunt than a Nait 5, which would take off like a buzz-saw when pushed hard (well, the several I knew did anyway).
hifi_dave
21-10-2009, 16:14
Now I've had a pair of Harbeth Monitor 40.1 ensconced in the demo room for a few weeks now, everything else looks quite twee.:lol:
Chaps
You have all got it wrong.
New houses are being built smaller and smaller and hence everything in it will have to be small.
You talk to any antique dealer and they will confirm, small is good and big is bad. I recently bought a large Georgian bureau fairly cheaply just because it was big.
This means looking forward, anything bigger than a matchbox is due to be unwanted, no matter how good it is.
I have a Naim system, mounted in a Hutter rack and it takes up a large amount of space. My Briks also soak up carpet space. I am ok, I live in a bigger than average house but even the traditional 2 bed terrace has more space than most new builds.
So mini systems are the thing of the future and sad to say, grumpy old Ashley could end up a millionaire.
Forget your classics, just think tape measures.
LOL - very good. Mick! But your thinking is rather 'mainstream' and lacking a lateral perspective, old chap. How about instead we stick two fingers up to current fashions, think for ourselves, and strive to own the best we can afford, regardless? :)
Quite simply, new-build 'Wendy houses' in 'Brookside-style' housing estates are for tasteless oiks with a penchant for line-dancing and wearing a shell suit to the supermarket.
They're also a complete rip-off, offering very poor material value for money. I would never buy one. Give me period properties with high ceilings, thick walls, decent-sized rooms, and big gardens any day!
And then you can have a hi-fi system with decent-sized speakers!!
Forget new-builds and tape measures, think quality and the bigger the better ;)
Marco.
Mick Parry
21-10-2009, 17:44
Marco
You are an elderly gentleman sitting in a house which is probably paid for. You are therefore sitting pretty.
I work with a young man who is paying £1235 pm mortgage to live in his house and it is 3 stories and every room is small. It is a block of appartments and he told me that he can hear the toilet being flushed two appartments along. The build quality is crap.
The population of the UK is predicted to hit 70m+ by 2030 and property is already in short supply. Land is in short supply so houses will continue to get smaller still. The current recesion has virtually killed house building so the problem gets worse.
My brother is an Architect and his advice is to buy property, the only way for prices is up.
One interesting fact, an average house built in the year 2000 is only 66% of the size of a house built in 1950.
This means more small houses and that means smaller stuff.
Regards
Mick ... only 5ft 8" so has built in value.
Elderly gentleman? LOL!! I'm only 44. What does that make you then, old chap? :lol:
I take your point, but you don't have to buy a new-build property, no matter what age you are.
The fact is, often older properties are less expensive and offer much better value for money, especially if they're in need of attention and you're prepared to do a bit of D.I.Y - in that case they often go for a song!
Personally I really hate the way new houses are thrown up in days, willy-nilly, and how the walls are paper thin. I also hate their postage stamp-sized gardens with everyone living within two feet from each other. Bugger that!!
Also, what you're saying depends on where you live in the UK, and also whether you live in the country or in a large town or city. Here in North Wales you'd get a very large property indeed for £1235 per month - and it wouldn't necessarily need to be a Wendy house on a Brookside estate ;)
Marco.
anthonyTD
21-10-2009, 18:15
I swear that it was the "S2" that we had a batch of. maybe they never went into proper production, but S2 they were, with the cruciform footed-with-castors pillar stands too. We had a good many pairs to shift and shift we did.
I can't remember where the odd review came from, but I think it was the infamous A MacK HiFi Choice book from 1976... It was, i just checked. "Cotton woolly and coloured" was one comment, although they may have damaged the crossovers in the high-power testing they did before listening tests commenced (I saw the evidence on one model they annihilated..).
Armstrong valve amps. far too early for me I'm afraid ;)
we still have one of these amps at my dads house somewhere!!.
Rare Bird
21-10-2009, 18:22
Chaps
You have all got it wrong.
New houses are being built smaller and smaller and hence everything in it will have to be small.
You talk to any antique dealer and they will confirm, small is good and big is bad. I recently bought a large Georgian bureau fairly cheaply just because it was big.
This means looking forward, anything bigger than a matchbox is due to be unwanted, no matter how good it is.
I have a Naim system, mounted in a Hutter rack and it takes up a large amount of space. My Briks also soak up carpet space. I am ok, I live in a bigger than average house but even the traditional 2 bed terrace has more space than most new builds.
So mini systems are the thing of the future and sad to say, grumpy old Ashley could end up a millionaire.
Forget your classics, just think tape measures.
Regards
Mick
What size got to do with it
:lolsign:
What size got to do with it
:lolsign:
Andre
Any idea what the stands/trolley the Quads are mounted on, and where one could get them?
As computer speakers they would be hopeless, but I like the photo.
Regards
Hi Barry,
The set-up shown belongs to Jonathan Ribee on pfm, therefore if you need that sort of info, best ask him there :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
21-10-2009, 19:41
Hi Barry,
The set-up shown belongs to Jonathan Ribee on pfm, therefore if you need that sort of info, best ask him there :)
Marco.
Had no idea where it was from got sent it through e-mail..Does the picture need taking down Marco??
Nah, it's cool. I'm sure Jonathan doesn't mind :)
Marco.
Quite simply, new-build 'Wendy houses' in 'Brookside-style' housing estates are for tasteless oiks with a penchant for line-dancing and wearing a shell suit to the supermarket.
Marco.
Oh for God's sake, Marco! I know you probably have your tongue firmly in your cheek when saying this, but do you have to come across like a rich oik? :doh:
Yes he does. He's apparently a self-made man and it takes a certain "drive" to get that way. In Harpenden, these sort of people bought B&O and often lived in ranch-style 1970's built houses.......
He's a self-made man who worships his creator.
The Grand Wazoo
21-10-2009, 23:14
Sorry, I'm suffering from blocked ears at the moment.
Did you say:
"He worships his crater"..........?
The Grand Wazoo
21-10-2009, 23:15
.............and he did what to himself?
Sorry, I'm suffering from blocked ears at the moment.
Did you say:
"He worships his crater"..........?
When is your appointment to have your ears syringed? I said:
When is your appointment to have your ears syringed!
Regards
The Grand Wazoo
21-10-2009, 23:36
Hi Barry,
Yes, the weather is dreadful isn't it?
hehehe...........tomorrow - late pm & not before time - it's driving me up the wall.
Still I've had fun doing blind A/B tests of various different brands of olive oil poured in the lug'oles.
My vote goes to the Extra Virgin Kalamata oil I've been using tonight - unfiltered, naturally!
Hi Barry,
Yes, the weather is dreadful isn't it?
hehehe...........tomorrow - late pm & not before time - it's driving me up the wall.
Still I've had fun doing blind A/B tests of various different brands of olive oil poured in the lug'oles.
My vote goes to the Extra Virgin Kalamata oil I've been using tonight - unfiltered, naturally!
:lolsign:
Cheers
Oh for God's sake, Marco! I know you probably have your tongue firmly in your cheek when saying this, but do you have to come across like a rich oik? :doh:
Hi Peter,
You're quite right, of course... My tongue was definitely firmly in my cheek!
However, the observation had nothing to do with wealth, but rather with taste.
If I had a notional budget of, say, £350k to buy a house (where I live that would buy you a fairly decent sized detached older property or a large Wendy house in a Brookside-style estate), I'd go for the period property every time, as it would be much better built, more likely have bigger rooms (almost certainly higher ceilings), and perhaps some rather nice period features too.
It would also probably have a bigger garden with some semblance of space (and privacy) between your next door neighbour and you - and all for the same price.
I hate new-builds with a passion because they're thrown up in no time at all, and just like SPPV (sound-per-pound value) in hi-fi, they offer very poor MPPV (material-per-pound-value). You of course may disagree :)
Marco.
I don't disagree with you, but not everyone has the choice you have.
Rare Bird
22-10-2009, 09:54
Hi Peter,
You're quite right, of course... My tongue was definitely firmly in my cheek!
However, the observation had nothing to do with wealth, but rather with taste.
If I had a notional budget of, say, £350k to buy a house (where I live that would buy you a fairly decent sized detached older property or a large Wendy house in a Brookside-style estate, I'd go for the period property every time, as it would be much better built, more likely have bigger rooms (almost certainly higher ceilings), and perhaps some rather nice period features too.
It would also probably have a bigger garden with some semblance of space (and privacy) between your next door neighbour and you - and all for the same price.
I hate new-builds with a passion because they're thrown up in no time at all, and just like SPPV (sound-per-pound value) in hi-fi, they offer very poor MPPV (material-per-pound-value). You of course may disagree :)
Marco.
I call these new houses lego houses. Unfortunatly i lost my house in my divorce to first wife, ended in a flat now & see no way out, my life is a total mysery..Neighbour control your life.If i were to put my stereo on a even below decent levels the neighbour would be down the council in a flash..I honestly don't know why i bother with speakers, may aswell stick something small in the corner like 'LS3/5a' as orniments..
:steam:
Old houses are the best way especially ones with lots of corners, nothing worse than box rooms...I love Edwardian houses.
I don't disagree with you, but not everyone has the choice you have.
No, I'm afraid that's life. I'm still entitled to express my opinion, though! :)
Andre,
I completely agree. "lego houses" - LOL! Shame about the flat situation - I've been there too many moons ago, so I sympathise. I'm sure that something better will turn up - you just never know with these things :smoking:
Marco.
Steve Toy
22-10-2009, 11:56
You don't need to spend a fortune to buy a house that will accommodate a large hi-fi. I paid £120k for a 3-bed link detached house built in 1971 in the height of the boom in September 2006. At the time shoe-box 3-bed new-build town houses were going for about £140k and new-build flats were £110k.
My living room accommodates my Heco Celan 700 speakers easily and I could get Marco's Lockwoods or Anthony's Tannoy Glenairs in without any problem.
As for new-build houses getting smaller the blame for that lies with our glorious Labour government yet again. They have an immigration policy that is intended to raise our population by some 15 million since they came to power. Why do they insist on importing all these extra people?
There is an increasing need for more people of working age to pay for those already retired but if they hadn't raided the pension funds and generally taxed/borrowed the life out of the productive economy this population increase would not be neccessary. Extra bodies here put strain on our infrastructure and public services so these extra bodies aren't going to increase funds in the treasury coffers, not unless our infrastructure is going to be neglected, which of course it probably is.
"We can't build our way out of congestion" with our road network but they are happy to build our way into congestion by allowing England's green and pleasant land to be swallowed up by 3-storey shoe boxes and battery cages, in which neither a cat nor a rhythm from a decent hi-fi can be swung, covering the equivalent of the surface area of several large counties.
As all these extra bodies, each an extra carbon footprint, arrive with their need to move around the UK like everyone else, we see road space that cannot possibly be expanded being rationed instead. This rationing takes the form of congestion charging, road pricing (pricing the roadspace beyond the reach of many of those who need to use it) or variable speed limits on our motorways (the M6 between Birmingham and Manchester is currently being ruined in this fashion). The variable limits ration roadspace by slowing down the rate of progress into the section of road ahead that is already full. Installing the system costs a fortune as well as creating as much disruption as adding extra lanes which would obviously be better.
The best solution of all however would be to effectively cap the UK population at 60 million through the strict immigration controls we had in the eighties and nineties, invest in increasing our road capacity as well as high-speed rail links. This would kill the demand for more smaller and nastier housing that won't accommodate decent hi-fi.
The improved infrastructure and resulting ease of movement throughout the UK, coupled with a stable population level would reduce carbon emissions in two ways: arresting the growth in the number of bodies here would arrest the growth in the number of cars given that their number per head of population is already nearly peaked (we can all only drive one car at a time). Also the resulting reduction in congestion would reduce the amount of wasteful carbon emissions where vehicles stuck in queues making no progress are stuill belching fumes into the atmosphere.
Furthermore this improved infrastructure would encourage overseas investment in manufacturing in the UK given that we had the infrastructure to move our people and goods around more easily.
The quality of life for those now genuinely fortunate to live here would be protected, houses would remain a decent size and ADM9s would be consigned to hisory.
Or we can continue to do the total opposite and completely screw up our nation just to keep those bastards in ever greater power over greater numbers of citizens.
Beechwoods
22-10-2009, 12:05
I know where Peter's coming from re. choice. In Bristol You're looking at £450k for something period, with a garden (and I mean a small garden). You can get period property in certain areas for £300-350k but you'd find yourself without any garden, and with buy-to-lets to your left and your right, no parking, and quite likely a very limited choice in schools!
I consider myself lucky to be in a semi-detached wendy-house with a garden, parking and good schools! I could move, but couldn't bear the commute. I have my den, though :) Aaah, some you win, some you lose!
Rare Bird
22-10-2009, 12:28
Andre,
I completely agree. "lego houses" - LOL! Shame about the flat situation - I've been there too many moons ago, so I sympathise. I'm sure that something better will turn up - you just never know with these things
Trouble with me Marco is i won't committ to Morgage anymore. The present wife likes it here but i won't be dictated to by neighbours so gonna hate it..
Mick Parry
22-10-2009, 13:35
Marco
I apologise for even suggesting your are my age.
Steven
Whether you like it or not, the EU allows 100% freedom of movement within its borders and rightly so.
I see no reason not to allow total freedom throughout the world for everyone. If everyone wants to come in the UK, the price of property will rocket up, so you can sell up and buy a 10 bedroom mansion somewhere else for the price of a new build shack in wolverhampton. Everything will balance out in the end.
I must admit I like to see multi racial societies, it is good to see different cultures and our society is enriched by it.
We have loads of land to build on and more people here means more demand for everything, even for taxi fares which should please you.
Little England is dead, live with it and embrace it.
Regards
Mick
Mick Parry
22-10-2009, 13:37
Andre
Stop whinging, get out there and kick ass and make money and then buy another house. You are the architect of your own fortune and there is no point in leading a miserable life. Attitude is 90% of success.
Regards
Mick
Rare Bird
22-10-2009, 13:45
Andre
Stop whinging, get out there and kick ass and make money and then buy another house. You are the architect of your own fortune and there is no point in leading a miserable life. Attitude is 90% of success.
Regards
Mick
Mick both myself & the wife work about 120 hours a week between us & still can't afford it..Holiday kills us every few years but you have to have a break sometime..Maybe when i've clead a few outstanding debts i'm still paying off from the last marrage & a the Child support maybe i'll be a lot more flush, you know how CSA works, more you earn more they take..My wages are crap top & bottom but it's a job at the end of the day.. but 40 odd years old is it really worth taking on a 25 year morgage!
Steve Toy
22-10-2009, 13:49
I must admit I like to see multi racial societies, it is good to see different cultures and our society is enriched by it.
So do I. Race doesn't come into it. It's the sheer weight of numbers I have an issue with.
I too enjoy living in a multi-cultural society, provided everyone integrates of course.
Mick Parry
22-10-2009, 14:13
Andre
Do you want to be a mug who rents or someone sensible who takes out a mortgage in the knowledge that house prices will inevetably rise.
I made a six figure sum by being a buy to let landlord and it was all made possible by some mugs who paid me rent and I just sat back and watched the houses rise in value.
Your age is no excuse, you will be sitting on a golden cow in 20 years from now, so select a house and buy it. This is the right time to do it.
Regards
Mick
Mick Parry
22-10-2009, 14:20
Steven
No one expects total integration, you have to be a bit realistic. People will always stick with their peers.
Personally I have no objection to anyone coming here as they nearly always boost the economy and we can take 70m if we organise things right.
Regards
Mick
Steve Toy
22-10-2009, 15:21
and we can take 70m if we organise things right.
With government policy on transport alone as it, that just isn't going to happen.
Rare Bird
22-10-2009, 15:30
Andre
Do you want to be a mug who rents or someone sensible who takes out a mortgage in the knowledge that house prices will inevetably rise.
I made a six figure sum by being a buy to let landlord and it was all made possible by some mugs who paid me rent and I just sat back and watched the houses rise in value.
Your age is no excuse, you will be sitting on a golden cow in 20 years from now, so select a house and buy it. This is the right time to do it.
Regards
Mick
Can't do it Mick. Been homeless before & the really frightened me.I could buy the place i'm in buy why bother when my rent will be free when the wifes a pensioner, if there are pensions by then..I made seriously bad moves in my life..Don't wanna make another.Worked bloody hard in my life to get what i own posensions wise to loose the lot cos some bitch wants to test the water elsewhere, i'm back on my feet in the posessions postion can't risk it no more...£60K will buy a house with neighbours which is jumping out the frying pan. £100K 1920's semi which is more like it,Detatched or Bungalow no chance.. never afford the payments Mick.
Rare Bird
22-10-2009, 15:36
jesus my grammar is terrible & spellin
Marco
I apologise for even suggesting your are my age.
LOL - no problem :)
We met at the Naim barbecue in 2001 - remember? Did I look like an elderly gentleman, then? Shit it must be this Welsh air - too much sheep shit in it! :lol:
You did get one thing right, though - I own my house outright (no mortgage). I also rent out a few properties, like you used to do. It's a very nice little earner, like you say ;)
Marco.
There are two other factors here that Steven has forgotten to mention.
Firstly, there's the trend for town dwellers to buy second homes in the country, thus inflating rural house prices and pricing local first-time buyers out of the market.
Secondly, there's buy-to-letters hoovering up cheaper urban housing to rent out to students, reducing the stock of affordable property and pushing prices up. Ironically this is often precisely the type 19th century terraced property that Marco is saying people should buy!
Andre, we've ALL made bad decisions in our lives, some worse than others, but in so many ways, that's how we learn. Those who have had it too easy just become smug, sanctimonious and arrogant t*ssers to the rest of us.... I can say that having, like you, been on both sides of the prosperity fence and unless you have "friends who can help" when over 50, getting a fresh start in career life is very difficult indeed, certainly in east Suffolk.
Anyone getting a mortgage today is taking a financial gamble for future payments, even though houses will almost certainly rise in price again. The one thing that's good for us is that we own our house too, although Victorian builds can be money-pits when they want to be (ours isn't too bad, apart from a 2000 built enclosed wooden porch that needs remedial work)...
P.S. and a £12K slate roof replacement [we did know about this when we bought it and haggled accordingly...]
My best souvenirs are the ones of bad decisions and hard times.
I agree with Dave on the rest, and I would add some "who made it too fast" to the arrogant lot. They are fortunately very few and easy to avoid. ;)
I would like to add also that, buying a home is not (and should never be considered as) an investing move : it's merely an spending-(or budget-)control mechanism.
aquapiranha
22-10-2009, 17:55
Mick both myself & the wife work about 120 hours a week between us & still can't afford it..Holiday kills us every few years but you have to have a break sometime..Maybe when i've clead a few outstanding debts i'm still paying off from the last marrage & a the Child support maybe i'll be a lot more flush, you know how CSA works, more you earn more they take..My wages are crap top & bottom but it's a job at the end of the day.. but 40 odd years old is it really worth taking on a 25 year morgage!
Won't last forever Andre, I ave a couple of years left of the CSA myself so I know how you feel.
:steam:
Secondly, there's buy-to-letters hoovering up cheaper urban housing to rent out to students...
Joe, that's what we do - although I wouldn't exactly call it "hoovering up"; merely some 'light dusting', as we only have two houses that we rent out. We do own them outright though, again with no mortgage :)
Andre,
The answer is simple: move to Wrexham and I'll do you a knock-down deal on one of the houses we rent out (1930s two bedroom terrace right in the centre of town) ;)
Marco.
Best kept secret?
JLH96.
Just five transistors and it sounds stunning!
You can build it for 20 quid.
Let the audiophools buy the 300Bs..........................:lol::lol:
Joe, that's what we do - although I wouldn't exactly call it "hoovering up"; merely some 'light dusting', as we only have two houses that we rent out. We do own them outright though, again with no mortgage :)
Ah, it must be Mick who's doing the hoovering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8CTscW3dpI
Well then Quad405, blow its cover - we need more info! (Google & ebay not giving me much on JLH96 :( )
I made a six figure sum by being a buy to let landlord and it was all made possible by some mugs who paid me rent and I just sat back and watched the houses rise in value.
Just remember that with increasing frequency these days, such mugs who appear to be the perfect tenants may choose to turn your house into a cannabis factory. After the Police have smashed in your door, and finally handed the property back to you, you'll have at least a £30,000 repair bill!
I hope you did more than just sit back and watch the prices rise. You did remember to declare your rental income for tax, didn't you?
The Grand Wazoo
22-10-2009, 20:18
I made a six figure sum by being a buy to let landlord and it was all made possible by some mugs who paid me rent and I just sat back and watched the houses rise in value.
This is without doubt the most smug and arrogant statement I've read on this forum.
Beechwoods
22-10-2009, 20:21
:sofa:
Please no! Not again!
< wanders off muttering >
Covenant
22-10-2009, 20:28
Building your own house is a good alternative and easier than many people think. I bought a plot of land about 19 years ago and built a 4 bedroom detached for about £150k including the land. I should have sold after a few years and repeated the exercise but kids come along and you get settled.
[QUOTE=Andre;74205]I call these new houses lego houses. Unfortunatly i lost my house in my divorce to first wife, ended in a flat now & see no way out, my life is a total mysery..Neighbour control your life.If i were to put my stereo on a even below decent levels the neighbour would be down the council in a flash..I honestly don't know why i bother with speakers, may aswell stick something small in the corner like 'LS3/5a' as orniments..
:steam:
Andre
Your neighbours do not have a leg to stand on unless you are playing your music after 2300 hrs or before 1000 hrs - tell 'em to sod off!
I have an Edwardian terrace house (built 1901) bought for 28K in 1998. Aside from double-glazing I have never spent a penny on it. Solid brick walls, concrete floor and a 29' by 12' lounge ideal for hi-fi.
Yes, I have to put up with noise from my neighbours (two dogs on one side, both apparantly auditioning for a part in the next re-make of Hound of the Baskervilles) and they have to put up with my tunes. That is part and parcel of living in a terrace. I rarely play music loud and never after about 2230 hrs and I get on with both sets of neighbours just fine.
You can still buy these houses (unmodernised) for around 45-50K in the 'poorer' areas in the midlands and north - just look for one that has been properly 'knocked through' (i.e without the staircase down the centre of the living room). Loft apartment on a budget!
Martin
Far too much generalisation on both sides of the argument IMHO - I've owned 3 old Victorian properties, and a HUGE amount depends on how the previous owners have treated them. I moved into my first modern "Wendy house" 6 years ago, the build quality is excellent, the rooms are big, as is the plot - it's got loads of storage space, plenty of character, and it's not on an estate - (on the edge of the Marina, 250 yds from the river and a great old pub) but boy did it take some looking to find it! (Only neighbour (being on a corner plot) is 30+ feet away, so no problems with noise or cranking up the db's, either...)
The best built property I've owned was actually an early 70's flat, which was built like the proverbial "concrete convenience" and I decorated it in period style - cheesy as you like, this picture taking pride of place on the wall ;)
http://www.arts-wallpapers.com/photography/blown_away/01/blownaway800.jpg
I should have got a R2R tape deck and that Rotel RX-1603 Receiver to go with it - Oh My God - we're almost back on topic, how did that happen?! :lol:
Alex
Agree - A friend of mine owns a modern (4 yrs old) detached house not far from me and it is well built with large rooms - I do envy his freedom to roll in from the pub at one a.m and play Motorhead really loud!
If I could afford to buy one I would ( they cost about £170K round here) - but it is just too much of a stretch so I have to settle for 'bang for my buck'.
I really don't like suspended floors though - give me concrete any day!
Martin
Here you go - just to prove I wasn't making it up - notice the Orange vinyl too, just like I have purple vinyl now! (tart!) Luckily the sofas worked when we moved to the new house, as did the hifi rack too!
Just trying to work out where you live (wifey's got it I think ;))
Our last house was a 1993 build and solid downstairs, but the long and thin living room was a boom-box - suspended concrete floors to aid Radon dispersal...
Just trying to work out where you live (wifey's got it I think ;))
That probably is best kept a secret, on an open internet forum, Dave, but there is a small estate behind us on the old Brewery playing field site - though we're actually on the main road, on the corner - if you keep going up the hill you come to the Rivers estate - I'll PM you if you haven't guessed it!
Spectral Morn
23-10-2009, 13:32
I am very lucky.
Edwardian terrace 1903, two downstairs rooms knocked into one, concrete floors, good solid walls, high ceilings, and it works acoustically. Current system downstairs is the best sound I have had, but the room makes/allows it to work.
I agree with Marco, period is the only way to go, Victorian or Edwardian and at a push 1920/30's Art deco. I could not live in a modern box. My wife feels the same about it.
Does this part of the thread need to be moved ?...I don't want to kill it though.
Regards D S D L
I am very lucky.
Edwardian terrace 1903, two downstairs rooms knocked into one, concrete floors, good solid walls, high ceilings, and it works acoustically. Current system downstairs is the best sound I have had, but the room makes/allows it to work.
I agree with Marco, period is the only way to go, Victorian or Edwardian and at a push 1920/30's Art deco. I could not live in a modern box. My wife feels the same about it.
Does this part of the thread need to be moved ?...I don't want to kill it though.
Regards D S D L
Same deal as me then - its a valid upgrade! Start a new thread - Upgrade your system by downgrading your house:)
Martin
1950s houses are ok. Mine has a largish downstairs room, concrete floors. The room layout isn't perfect for audio - but I like the sound of my speakers eitherr side of teh chimney stack, adds a certain something to the sound which I like.
I moved into my first modern "Wendy house" 6 years ago, the build quality is excellent, the rooms are big, as is the plot - it's got loads of storage space, plenty of character, and it's not on an estate - (on the edge of the Marina, 250 yds from the river and a great old pub) but boy did it take some looking to find it!
Sounds really nice, Alex! :)
I suspect though that your "Wendy house" (LOL!) is not representative of the norm - well at least not in my experience... Certainly those I referred to earlier were the type stacked together like glorified doll's houses on an estate, where there is next to no space between your next door neighbour and you. This for us is a total nightmare.
I completely agree that the desirability of older properties lies largely with the condition they've been left in by their previous occupants. We did have to do lots of work to our 19th century lodge, but it's getting there and we love its period features.
How are the interior walls in your place - are they the plasterboard kind like in all modern houses? I much prefer solid brick walls throughout, especially for soundproofing reasons during those loud music sessions, if ya gets me :eyebrows:
What's very important to us though is privacy, so we would only buy a detached house that sits in its own grounds. We really hate being surrounded by neighbours, some of whom it's inevitable you won't get on with! ;)
Our experience of new houses on estates is that they are often populated by 'Hyacinth Bucket', keeping up with the Jones', types who, upon seeing you fit a new conservatory or getting a new car must then do the same, or preferably go one better! You know the sort - they do our heads in!! :mental:
Of course, that's not always the case (I'm sure you're not like that), but having experienced that nonsense before, we'd rather play it safe and be far away enough from every bugger to guarantee our much valued privacy :smoking:
Another thing we wouldn't swap for anything is our real coal/log fire in the lounge. With the dark winter's nights upon us now, there's nothing nicer than snuggling up to a roaring log fire, watching the flames flicker in the dark, whilst sipping a few glasses of wine!
Marco.
How are the interior walls in your place - are they the plasterboard kind like in all modern houses? I much prefer solid brick walls throughout, especially for soundproofing reasons during those loud music sessions, if ya gets me :eyebrows:
They're all plasterboard, but they're not stud partition walls - i.e. they're solid, but modern practice is to whack plasterboard up for speed. Proper solid walls would definitely be better, but too expensive, I guess!
Our experience of new houses on estates is that they are often populated by 'Hyacinth Bucket', keeping up with the Jones', types who, upon seeing you fit a new conservatory or getting a new car must then do the same, or preferably go one better! You know the sort - they do our heads in!! :mental:
Of course, that's not always the case (I'm sure you're not like that)
No, um, of course not, um, not like that at all! :o :lol:
I know what you mean - but the close to the side/behind is only 20 odd houses, so not too much of that goes on, but then we're miserable buggers and don't speak to anyone anyway! :ner:
Another thing we wouldn't swap for anything is our real coal/log fire in the lounge. With the dark winter's nights upon us now, there's nothing nicer than snuggling up to a roaring log fire, watching the flames flicker in the dark, whilst sipping a few glasses of wine!
Yep, you've got me there, I have to drink twice the amount of wine to stay warm! :cheers:
Here's a pic to show you how the house looks, (from a couple of years ago by the looks of my now gone car) - got a lovely big hall and landing behind the arched window, which gives it a really airy feel. Opposite (where I was taking the photo from) is part of the local park, and is all woodland that is protected, with a 17th century lodge 100yds down the hill. Not meaning to do anything other than try and show that not all modern houses have no character or space, btw!
We probably should move this, now Neil, sorry!
We have a 1980's wendy house built on the site of some Victorian terraces and as I recently discovered an old pub called the 'Who Could Have Thought It'.
This site borders an enormous area of run down, dilapidated terraces all of which has been due for redevelopment since our house was built. During the last Tory Gov. the local council were forbidden from doing anything in the way of urban regeneration. In '97 the NuLab lot came in and a sign went up designating the whole area a site of Urban Regeneration, under the direction of the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister. Plans were drawn up, meetings held etc.,action at last we thought.
Well, not quite the action we thought. Thanks to our local MP, the Foreign Secretary of the day, making promises to house any and all of the misplaced people from across the war torn Balkans and Middle East we ended up with the detritus from everywhere from Albania to Kurdistan uprooted and plonked down in what became by the turn of the century designated as the worst housing in the EU, by, wait for it, the afore mentioned Office of the Deputy Prime Minister (and the EU Parliament). The refugee situation took 5/6 years to resolve, following 2 inter-tribal killings and numerous arson attacks. Most of the housing was left unoccupied, after owner occupiers were paid to leave and the whole area gradually declined until in the early 00's we had gangs of feral youths running amock fueled by cheap alcohol and cheaper drugs setting fires and wrecking cars at will. The polices' response was to corale them in and video the proceedings, how no one was killed or seriously hurt defeats me and as far as I know no arrests were made, this happened two summers on the run and lasted weeks at a time. Eventually the bulldozers moved in the whole area was flattened. We then had acres and acres of undeveloped 'bomb site' on our door step for 3/4 years, the Office ot the Deputy Prime Ministers' sign still stood proudly proclaiming the special nature of this Urban Regeneration.
Finally, last year the re-building began (hooray) then the credit crunch engulfed us and the building stopped (boo). So now we have a couple of dozen completed houses were there should be hundreds, and Mr. Preston's sign now has a flag on it, progress. As for us, we had this house on the market for 2 years, at below market price but not one inquiry, the only way anyone has sold a house here in the last decade is by auction so if MP reads this the next time a sale comes up I'll let you know and he can bag himself a buy-to-let bargain.
Who could have thought it.
That probably is best kept a secret, on an open internet forum, Dave, but there is a small estate behind us on the old Brewery playing field site - though we're actually on the main road, on the corner - if you keep going up the hill you come to the Rivers estate - I'll PM you if you haven't guessed it!
No probs sir, wifey's the "lowcal" one :)
On topic. I'm not sure thyat the prices are low any more, but there was a UK imported HK Citation amp (11?). Not pretty, but very capable IMO.
Another from the same period is the rare (in UK) Acoustic Research amp. Almost timeless styling, very simple and elegant (like their turntable) and a novel transformer coupled output stage....
The Grand Wazoo
23-10-2009, 18:04
the rare (in UK) Acoustic Research amp. Almost timeless styling, very simple and elegant (like their turntable) and a novel transformer coupled output stage....
When AR were Teledyne AR based in Dunstable? It was made by Cambridge Audio wasn't it?
Rewind a further fifteen years...
I'm talking the "proper" US made one :)
http://www.hifisupply.co.uk/usedarchive.html
Scroll down past the turntables and classic CD players and you'll get to it.....
The Grand Wazoo
23-10-2009, 20:04
Oh, that one. Yes I guess I should've read a little more carefully, I thought you meant UK company.
I was going to say the Cambridge amp was hardly a paragon of timeless styling, but I'm more polite than that!
No, the old US one was lovely.
The Grand Wazoo
23-10-2009, 20:07
.........dat one?
http://www.alexwaterhousehayward.com/blog/uploaded_images/AR-779619.jpg
I'd have loved to have owned one, but when I started in 1974, the gadget laden far eastern products were getting the sales - from us, the Yamaha 800 and 1000 models, which sound so *dead* these days, even on the preamp circuits with tone-jump engaged...
Rare Bird
23-10-2009, 20:27
Um that AR amp aint that ace! chris are you merican cos i saw your fisher thing last nite?
The Grand Wazoo
23-10-2009, 20:31
Me from the US?
No, but I spent a while abroad when I was a kid living in communities of expats from various countries, that's where I got a taste for some of the better US gear.
Rare Bird
23-10-2009, 20:35
US dont make good gear! i'm confused
Mike Reed
24-10-2009, 08:47
Tut tut ! How inflammatory ! Is this an offshoot of the Nick Griffin effect?
Now will this provoke lively discourse or lie dead in the water?
Yup, I'd have to disagree with Andre on that one. There is plenty of American gear that I'd happily own - McIntosh amps being one :)
Marco.
The can make Fenders and Gibsons, but don't know how to make gear ? ;)
(when you think of it, Marshalls are made in Britain...)
I have a multi-national system, with components from England, Denmark, Canada, Holland, and Wales.
Rare Bird
24-10-2009, 09:46
Yup, I'd have to disagree with Andre on that one. There is plenty of American gear that I'd happily own - McIntosh amps being one :)
Marco.
:lolsign:
Aye only pulling yer legs..Good gear to me some years back that is
McIntosh as you say
ARC (Had a SP9 for some time)
Conrad Johnson
Aragon
Sumo etc etc
Some of the vintage gear is very good too... I wouldn't say no to a Day-Sequerra tuner or a Heathkit amp or receiver, either :)
Magnum Dynalab also make some serious modern tuners, although they're Canadian.
Marco.
Rare Bird
24-10-2009, 10:09
Some of the vintage gear is very good too... I wouldn't say no to a Day-Sequerra tuner or a Heathkit amp or receiver, either :)
Magnum Dynalab also make some serious modern tuners, although they're Canadian.
Marco.
You could get a Nice vintage Marantz with the Day Sequerra touch
True. There's another brand that produced some serious gear (when they were an American company and the equipment was designed by Saul Marantz himself) :)
Marco.
I also believe that most of the stuff with the KI monika should be avoided at all costs. He (they, if it's a team with a figurehead as I was lead to believe) may look as if he's the dogs doodahs, but I suspect his hearing on the budget stuff ;)
pure sound
24-10-2009, 12:56
Not really a secret as such but fabulous all the same. Will put many amps, valve or SS to shame.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i318/murrayjohnson/pm4frontcropped.jpg
Marantz have indeed made some very fine pieces. I was talking with KI about the above at the Whittlebury Show. He was with Marantz back then, late 70's early 80's. He's obviously fully au fait with what I'd regard as 'good stuff' too, but is doubtless obliged to lend his name to all manner of things in order to help market them. But I certainly wouldn't make the assumption that he doesn't know about serious audio. He definitely does.
Rare Bird
24-10-2009, 12:57
True. There's another brand that produced some serious gear (when they were an American company and the equipment was designed by Saul Marantz himself) :)
Marco.
Yep this is what people seem to forget, the American stuff is proper Marantz, the Philips take over was the end...
Stratmangler
24-10-2009, 12:58
The can make Fenders and Gibsons, but don't know how to make gear ? ;)
(when you think of it, Marshalls are made in Britain...)
Don't forget that the Marshall Amp was originally based on the Fender Bassman, only with parts easily obtained in the UK.
Chris:)
Rare Bird
24-10-2009, 12:59
Here goes Marantz '10b' pure sex
Mike Reed
24-10-2009, 22:20
Some of the vintage gear is very good too... I wouldn't say no to a Day-Sequerra tuner or a Heathkit amp or receiver, either :)
Magnum Dynalab also make some serious modern tuners, although they're Canadian.
Marco.
So is Mackintosh, I believe. Still American, though, in the true sense!
I used to build Heathkit speakers (big ones), and had a go at an amp. in the sixties. Heathkit used to have a shop on Tottenham Court Road, just up from Lasky's. Never thought it was the dog's b's though. Maybe the Yankee stuff was different.
Spectral Morn
24-10-2009, 22:23
Not really a secret as such but fabulous all the same. Will put many amps, valve or SS to shame.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i318/murrayjohnson/pm4frontcropped.jpg
Marantz have indeed made some very fine pieces. I was talking with KI about the above at the Whittlebury Show. He was with Marantz back then, late 70's early 80's. He's obviously fully au fait with what I'd regard as 'good stuff' too, but is doubtless obliged to lend his name to all manner of things in order to help market them. But I certainly wouldn't make the assumption that he doesn't know about serious audio. He definitely does.
A point I have made to DSJR on a few occasions in the past....leave KI alone.
Regards D S D L
Spectral Morn
24-10-2009, 22:25
So is Mackintosh, I believe. Still American, though, in the true sense!
I used to build Heathkit speakers (big ones), and had a go at an amp. in the sixties. Heathkit used to have a shop on Tottenham Court Road, just up from Lasky's. Never thought it was the dog's b's though. Maybe the Yankee stuff was different.
Nope...sorry now owned by DNM holdings a Jap company.
Regards D S D L
Mike Reed
25-10-2009, 09:56
Nope...sorry now owned by DNM holdings a Jap company.
Regards D S D L
They must have 'mounted' a takeover. Maybe now owned by the Rising Sun, but surely they didn't move the factory from Canada. (Actually I thought DNM was a little British company way back when: I'm obviously 'out of the loop', as someone recently suggested!)
Spectral Morn
25-10-2009, 10:10
They must have 'mounted' a takeover. Maybe now owned by the Rising Sun, but surely they didn't move the factory from Canada. (Actually I thought DNM was a little British company way back when: I'm obviously 'out of the loop', as someone recently suggested!)
No its ownership only and I think some aspects of business is in Japan now. The crazy thing is that Marantz should be doing the distribution in the UK and yet a small distributor is doing it still :doh::( The big Mac valve integrated amplifier is very good. I thought about buying one a few years ago. Heard it at the 2007 Heathrow show. The room was huge they were using Vienna acoustics speakers Mac sacd player and solid state Mac amp. While talking to the distributor I said the sound was crap (they knew this) Why not use the valve integrated I suggested they did and boy did the sound improve....very nice indeed. (see my show report for photos of this event and amplifier Link http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2111 )
Different DNM its DNM Holdings that own Marantz, Denon and McIntosh. I think the N stands for Nippon Columbia.
Regards D S D L
hifi_dave
25-10-2009, 10:31
It has often happened over the years that a large company allows a small, specialist company to take over the distribution. Usually this is because the large company knows little about specialist Hi-Fi and their reps can only talk model numbers and price breaks. Doesn't work with the high end fraternity.
Spectral Morn
25-10-2009, 10:34
It has often happened over the years that a large company allows a small, specialist company to take over the distribution. Usually this is because the large company knows little about specialist Hi-Fi and their reps can only talk model numbers and price breaks. Doesn't work with the high end fraternity.
In this case I don't think thats it.....it was I believe because of legal grounds, agreements having been made before the change over.
Regards D S D L
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