View Full Version : Should Donald Trump be refused entry to the UK?
MPs to debate calls to ban Donald Trump (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35238349)
This is going to be debated in Parliament, as the petition is now at over half a million.
The debate is scheduled for 18 January 2016, should we bar him? I expect some of the Scottish Mafia may not be so keen on our Mr Trump!
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/trump_zpsmdwnocpc.jpg
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114003
Arkless Electronics
06-01-2016, 17:24
Of course we should bar him!! He's a far right nut job one step removed from Hitler!
Audio Advent
06-01-2016, 17:50
People have been banned from entry for less. Some misogynist creapy guy giving classes on how to bully women into likeing you, a rapper because of songs containing misogynyst violence but written from the point of view of a "character", not the rapper's own views necessarily.
Trump is worse and covers more bases. Banning him would show consistancy at least. Not banning him would lead to calls of double standards for the rich and super rich. But we all know that's the case anyway don't we? Saudi royals are a great example...
I'd like to see him banned just in order to cause a "patriotic" backlash which then causes more stupid people to back and vote for him, causing more turmoil in the US.. not sure why, but perhaps it will help lead to a breakdown of the neo-liberal status-quo sooner somehow? It would really fit with a history of the fall of rome too, having a crazy emporer of the US empire/industrial-military complex.
walpurgis
06-01-2016, 18:28
Of course we should bar him!! He's a far right nut job one step removed from Hitler!
Sounds like just the chap we need. Get Katie Hopkins in as his policy advisor and give him free reign to run the UK! :eyebrows:
Oldpinkman
06-01-2016, 18:29
People have been banned from entry for less. Some misogynist creapy guy giving classes on how to bully women into likeing you, a rapper because of songs containing misogynyst violence but written from the point of view of a "character", not the rapper's own views necessarily.
Trump is worse and covers more bases. Banning him would show consistancy at least. Not banning him would lead to calls of double standards for the rich and super rich. But we all know that's the case anyway don't we? Saudi royals are a great example...
I'd like to see him banned just in order to cause a "patriotic" backlash which then causes more stupid people to back and vote for him, causing more turmoil in the US.. not sure why, but perhaps it will help lead to a breakdown of the neo-liberal status-quo sooner somehow? It would really fit with a history of the fall of rome too, having a crazy emporer of the US empire/industrial-military complex.
But what about all that investment in golf courses for the Jocks? I wonder where Jimmy Crankie (Nicola Sturgeon) stands on that one. It would be nice if he could be banned, and if we could stop all nasty people from being horrid (there is a president in Syria and a bloke letting off fake hydrogen bombs in North Korea on my list) - but of course the debate the petition has triggered is a committee of parliament, and not government, so there is nothing it can do except rubber stamp it off its desk anyway
"Bother" said Winnie the Pooh
archiesdad
06-01-2016, 18:31
Why bother, it's not like we will get a vote for him, or even go listen to him, he may be a publicity seeking gobshite but so far he hasn't attacked anyone with a machete ytried to get anybody else to that for him. If he doesn't float your boat turn the telly over when he's on and don't read about him in the newspapers or here, banning him might give another reason to rant to his disciples?
daytona600
06-01-2016, 18:45
allow him into the country only if he removes his syrup for his stay
“The ultimate form of censorship is assassination. ”
― George Bernard Shaw
Old George
07-01-2016, 02:42
Why bother, it's not like we will get a vote for him, or even go listen to him, he may be a publicity seeking gobshite but so far he hasn't attacked anyone with a machete ytried to get anybody else to that for him. If he doesn't float your boat turn the telly over when he's on and don't read about him in the newspapers or here, banning him might give another reason to rant to his disciples?
EXACTLY. As usual the more 'liberal' elements seem to have both short and selective memories. We have allowed terrorists and their supporters into the country over the years, so what's the problem? Trump is just another windbag kitted out with one of Frankie Howard's old 'syrups'. He looks a tw*t and sounds a tw*t. Get over it.
Of course we should bar him!! He's a far right nut job one step removed from Hitler!
Why is Hitler 'right wing' and Stalin 'left wing' when in practical purposes they were exactly the same? And why does right wing mean believing in small government and the freedom of the individual unless you are also a racist in which case you become 'right wing' even if you believe in left-wing ideas such as a large, controlling State and a planned economy (like the BNP for example)?
Trump is an idiot, nothing more. Now I'm all in favour of banning idiots from entering the country but that would cut down drastically on the number of people entering the country, including many British nationals just back from their holidays.
He's nothing like as bad as McGuinness or Adams in that he is not responsible for murdering any children, and we let them be elected to Parliament.
I think this is more a case of 'I don't agree with this man's views so let's censor him'. That is what Hitler would have done.
Trump is an idiot, nothing more.
Yup, agree with that Martin.
Good post by the way.
Anyone got a link to what he said or is supposed to have said?
...he is a di k, as his antics re the golf complex showed, but barring access is pretty severe unless he actively pushed for violent actions or something like that. Sometimes think such actions are counter productive
He suggested that all Muslims be banned entry to the USA. Impractical and a bit crazy but not exactly worthy of invoking Godwin's Law.
Agree Martin.. Nothinv that bad tbh and surely he is entitled to his opinion even if wouldnt solve anything. He never demanded that violence be turned on current residents.
As much as i disagree with yahoos like Trump, if you try and stop folk voicing opinions(non violent ones), then the free world becomes what we hate... A controlled one
Exactly. People have the freedom to talk rubbish, we have the freedom to disagree. If you prevent people from voicing their opinion it will not change their opinion they will just voice it privately meaning it will not be subject to any counter argument.
Trump's current popularity in the USA seems to be more down to the low calibre of the other contenders than anything else.
'But the right to freedom obviously includes the right to be foolish. If what I say must be passed over for its sagacity by censors, however wise and prudent, then I have no free speech. And if what I may believe - about gall-stones, the Constitution or God - is conditioned by law, then I am not a free man.'
H L Mencken
Arkless Electronics
07-01-2016, 14:15
He is guilty of spreading racial and religious intolerance for a start and that, in my books, makes him an undesirable visitor to our country.
As a socialist egalitarian I personally find him and his type deeply offensive (although I concede that my personal opinion on this is not a reason to ban him). He basically espouses the view that unless you are white, christian, WEALTHY and American then you are worthless and to be exploited, ground down, denied health care etc and to me this makes him lower than fleas on a snakes belly.
It's also a criminal offence in the UK to incitement racial hatred.
It will be a very interesting Commons debate for sure that will clearly divide opinion. Whether banning him is going to make a difference or the right thing to do I don't know - just interested to see what peoples views were here, as I have just come back from the States and he's a hot topic over there, as you can imagine.
Suppose it depends on whats classed as racial hatred. Saying dont let muslims into the country is not really hatred in itself even if thats how he feels. Saying dont let foreign animals(Like ones that say may have an ill effect on the peoples health for example) into the country doesnt mean you hare or are inciting people to hate said animals.
Not that it matters much i guess... The us president may well have the last word...they usually do;)
It can't be racial hatred as Islam is not racially based. Anyone of any race can become a muslim.
Incitement to religious hatred is also an offence in the UK so technically you could use that; it would depend on the interpretation of the law. Banning members of a religion from entering your country is not technically inciting people to hate them, but at the same time it is singling them out for disapproval.
it would depend on the interpretation of the law.
Yup, in a nutshell there Martin.
Thanks for debating this guys, interesting topic, well for me it is. The views expressed so far are pretty much mirroring dinner table conversations in the US.
Audio Advent
07-01-2016, 20:23
But what about all that investment in golf courses for the Jocks? I wonder where Jimmy Crankie (Nicola Sturgeon) stands on that one. It would be nice if he could be banned, and if we could stop all nasty people from being horrid (there is a president in Syria and a bloke letting off fake hydrogen bombs in North Korea on my list) - but of course the debate the petition has triggered is a committee of parliament, and not government, so there is nothing it can do except rubber stamp it off its desk anyway
"Bother" said Winnie the Pooh
I don't think that's a response to my post to be honest - seems a general point and you've picked my post at random as a quote. UK government should be consistent with their banning but then it is also consistent to ignore the misdeeds of anyone who might bring money in. In other words there is no real moral / legal stance being adhered to, only what suits lobbiests and party donors (all parties in government, though less likely Labour under Corbyn's leadership).
Audio Advent
07-01-2016, 20:26
He suggested that all Muslims be banned entry to the USA. Impractical and a bit crazy but not exactly worthy of invoking Godwin's Law.
Also says that all muslims should be singled out and put on a register - like jews in Nazi Germany.
Meanwhile, a rapper IS banned from entry due to a character in one of his songs advocating mysogenist behaviour. Not the rapper himself expressing his view, but a character in a song expressing, their fictional views.
If you will ban entry of the latter then the former should be automatic.
Audio Advent
07-01-2016, 20:35
It's also a criminal offence in the UK to incitement racial hatred.
It will be a very interesting Commons debate for sure that will clearly divide opinion. Whether banning him is going to make a difference or the right thing to do I don't know - just interested to see what peoples views were here, as I have just come back from the States and he's a hot topic over there, as you can imagine.
He's also inciting racial hatred towards Mexicans in the US, saying something like they are all criminals, drug dealers and rapists. ALL Mexicans.
The ironic thing is that the discussion makes people think about the case and err on the side of caution and not overreacting, when some people are automatically banned because they are nobodies and it looks good on the Home Secretary's CV that they did something morally correct, no discussion entered into at all...
Those with most influence are allowed in whilst those with much less sway are banned without question because there will be no backlash or embarrasment for the government. Much like how bit part players in banking crimes are pursued but no-one cares about mass fraudulent behaviour by commanded by the CEOs. Toothless, weak behaviour - governments too scared of annoying powerful people.
Obviously playing to white America .... I take it he is a Republican :doh: bet he doesnt go against the gun club though;)
Audio Advent
07-01-2016, 20:38
Swap "muslim" for "jewish" and Trump would be immediately banned - strong pressure/influence on government from the israeli and jewish communities there but no attention paid to pressure from muslim communities..
It is a different country with different attitudes and much bigger devides though. According to a National Geographic survey, 77 percent of all Americans “believe there are signs that aliens have visited Earth” which is more than believe in Jesus.
There are lots of crazier folk, ans more dangerous folk walking our streets than Trump tbh......
There is the Tory party for a start :lol:
archiesdad
07-01-2016, 21:56
If Trump is banned, will the powers that be then ban/deport those preachers of hate that are already here, if so, tear up Trump's passport now, something tells me that'll never happen.
I've often said that there is no case for calling anti Islamic speeches as racist as it is open to all Races,shouldn't it be defined as Bigotry as it is a religion, as already mentioned before, nice to see that.
. Toothless, weak behaviour - governments too scared of annoying powerful people.
Interesting that you would distinguish between governments and powerful people.
As though the governments would like to do the right thing but are prevented. The governments exist for the powerful people and are composed of them; is how I see it.
Firebottle
08-01-2016, 10:56
Maybe I'm taking a simplistic view on this but isn't Trump being subject to the 'soundbite' type of journalism/knee jerk response.
I seem to recall that the actual statement was 'Ban all Muslims entering the country until we know what the hell is going on'. To me that means he wants to know how many are or might be extremists within the Muslim community, in order to 'know what's going on' as far as any threats are concerned.
Audio Advent
08-01-2016, 14:26
Maybe I'm taking a simplistic view on this but isn't Trump being subject to the 'soundbite' type of journalism/knee jerk response.
I seem to recall that the actual statement was 'Ban all Muslims entering the country until we know what the hell is going on'. To me that means he wants to know how many are or might be extremists within the Muslim community, in order to 'know what's going on' as far as any threats are concerned.
Maybe... but most people (including me) don't have time to delve into all the details! I'm happy just reading the soundbytes because they confirm the thoughts I had of him already :)
But that hasn't stopped people calling for the banning of others on the same depth of evidence and that banning then being imposed.
That is my personal point here.
Audio Advent
08-01-2016, 14:32
If Trump is banned, will the powers that be then ban/deport those preachers of hate that are already here, if so, tear up Trump's passport now, something tells me that'll never happen.
Trump has a British passport to rip up? I didn't realise...
There is a massive difference between banning non-citizens from entry and somehow removing people with citizenship within the country. There aren't the same laws to apply ... so that answers your question as to whether you can just do as you say as if laws are made up on the spot. Preachers of hate from overseas with no citizenship are removed from these shores often.
Audio Advent
08-01-2016, 14:35
Interesting that you would distinguish between governments and powerful people.
As though the governments would like to do the right thing but are prevented. The governments exist for the powerful people and are composed of them; is how I see it.
I think you are wrong. So it's not interesting I would distinguish between the two - I think most people would take it for granted they are different and they would be correct.
Why would powerful people weigh themselves down with intrinsic ties to governments when they can be completely separate and still wage their influence regardless via money and personal contact. On a basis of pure efficiency of effort, your theory is a bit fanciful.
So you wouldn't consider an MP or a Lord as a powerful person? Or a high-ranking Civil Servant? I agree it is a sliding scale but those in the upper echelons of government not only have influence in their own right but also associate with those people who have influence in the media, in industry and in finance. These are circles the ordinary folk have no access to.
It might be nice to think that the government want to do the right thing but are compelled not to, and that might actually happen on the odd occasion. But in general they are only too happy to assist their associates; and consequently are assisted in return. It is, in the words of the Bard, 'A right old stitch-up.'
And this applies to all sides of politics in all countries; and even if we had a people's revolution and took the lot of them out back to the car park and shot them it wouldn't take long before the new regime became identical to the old and we would be back where we started.
Arkless Electronics
08-01-2016, 17:12
So you wouldn't consider an MP or a Lord as a powerful person? Or a high-ranking Civil Servant? I agree it is a sliding scale but those in the upper echelons of government not only have influence in their own right but also associate with those people who have influence in the media, in industry and in finance. These are circles the ordinary folk have no access to.
It might be nice to think that the government want to do the right thing but are compelled not to, and that might actually happen on the odd occasion. But in general they are only too happy to assist their associates; and consequently are assisted in return. It is, in the words of the Bard, 'A right old stitch-up.'
And this applies to all sides of politics in all countries; and even if we had a people's revolution and took the lot of them out back to the car park and shot them it wouldn't take long before the new regime became identical to the old and we would be back where we started.
Indeed. The blatant nature of much of the governments corruption is mind boggling on occasions! Like giving knighthoods to their mates in return for favours received... and HS2 which is nothing to do with improving railways and lots to do with multi billion pound contracts for companies run by their pals!
I've always said if you want to understand how it all works all you need to do is buy the box set of Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister, watch them, and read Private Eye occasionally. All will be revealed!
And read Anthony Trollope's 'political' novels if you think any of this is unique to the 21st century. He thought the country was going to the dogs back in the 1860s.
walpurgis
09-01-2016, 11:12
And read Anthony Trollope's 'political' novels if you think any of this is unique to the 21st century. He thought the country was going to the dogs back in the 1860s.
He was right. :)
He was right. :)
Yeah they should never have repealed the corn laws! ;-)
Back on topic - Trump's a chump and I don't want him in the country.
Have to say I don't see what difference it makes to anything whether he is allowed in or not.
Have to say I don't see what difference it makes to anything whether he is allowed in or not.
Because he's currently running for President in case you had not noticed. It would make a clear statement that we don't approve of his policies. The lies that he tells about the situation in Britain should also not be acceptable, and he needs to know that.
...and if the unlikely happened and he won.? He would take revenge I guess and we would be in the wilderness.."hey thats not a bad idea:D
Trump?
God help us...He'll be "accident-ed" though before stepping anywhere near the big white house...
Meanwhile, lets have a laugh.
YNvR5HwsBEc
Trump?
God help us...He'll be "accident-ed" though before stepping anywhere near the big white house...
Meanwhile, lets have a laugh.
YNvR5HwsBEc
Theyvesaid that about a lot of folk... Some made it..
I recall the world was supposed to end when Reagan took office. Thing about US Presidents is they can generally do sweet FA except talk due to the separation of powers. Especially since they stopped them going to war without Congressional approval.
Audio Advent
09-01-2016, 16:23
So you wouldn't consider an MP or a Lord as a powerful person? Or a high-ranking Civil Servant?
Not an MP, not a civil servant. A Lord COULD be rich and powerful - depends on the individual.
Yes MP and PM were not real hahaha! Yes there is some element of truth in the way they are always there in the background and a bit of an old boys network but they are the doers, they are not calling the shots in my view. The shots are called by the rich and powerful who then seek to use them to get what they want.
It doesn't have to be some consipracy theory either. All it takes is for someone like Trump to say they're going to withdraw investment and then people lower down move to protect some profit making opportunity and get their mates to help out and lobby and manipulate MPs and civil servants.. But it is the guy at the top calling the shots e.g. Trump.
It's not a strict hierarchy, it is a network. Everyone plays their part and is essential to some part of it otherwise they are not in the network.
Some MPs and Civil Servants are extremely wealthy. And they will have specific doors they can open for others. That's power.
I doubt that Trump is at the top of his particular pyramid either. He must have backers, although I have not looked into it at all.
Audio Advent
09-01-2016, 16:32
Here's a good example of the hatred he can incite and is really running his own campaign on being banned ..
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-silent-protest-woman-ecorted-out-of-campaign-rally-a6803636.html
Would banning him from Britain adversely effect his campaign in any way? Might it not help to give him more credibility amongst those who might potentially vote for him?
It seems to be the trend nowadays to do things because 'it is the right thing to do' - meant in a moral sense. The trouble with making decisions on a moral instead of a pragmatic basis is the law of unintended consequences.
Jez,
Hitler was not far right he was a socialist ,vegetarian and anti tobacco.
Hitler was far closer to Obama in politics than Trump.
Read a history book.
The above was a response to Jez from the first page.
Jez,
Hitler was not far right he was a socialist ,vegetarian and anti tobacco.
Hitler was far closer to Obama in politics than Trump.
Read a history book.
He had a few other dislikes too;)
Obama is just a politician and his primary concern is Obama. That you can deal with. Hitler and Trump were/are crusaders. Crusaders are far more dangerous and unpredictable. Only thing worse than a crusader is an idealist :)
Would banning him from Britain adversely effect his campaign in any way? Might it not help to give him more credibility amongst those who might potentially vote for him?
I expect he would milk it for all it was worth, as evidence that the UK is 'controlled by Muslims'.
Indeed. And the banning would attract acres of coverage in the press and on TV, especially on a slow news day pushing the Trump campaign to the fore and giving it credibility.
Why do people these days think that all you have to do is ban something and it will go away? When in history has that ever worked?
Why do people these days think that all you have to do is ban something and it will go away? When in history has that ever worked?
You don't get much bear-baiting these days.
Because he's currently running for President in case you had not noticed.
Strictly speaking, he's running for the Republican nomination.
You don't get much bear-baiting these days.
Not in this country but only because there is a shortage of bears. Dog fights and such still go on.
Not in this country but only because there is a shortage of bears. Dog fights and such still go on.
Indeed. Just look at yer average hifi forum (though actually they're more bitch-fests than dog fights).
You often see calls to ban cable discussions because of it. Similar mentality at work? We all know the cable fights would just go underground where they could not be monitored or controlled :)
The answer is to
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160110/5478e6daa7e66f95f30aa26329e22214.jpg
:eyebrows:
You often see calls to ban cable discussions because of it. Similar mentality at work? We all know the cable fights would just go underground where they could not be monitored or controlled :)
Yeah, you'd have Faraday Cage fights.
A Crusader...
I really don't think you get Donald Trump.
And I kinda get why, It would be hard to understand living in the U.S. over the years and the changes and challenges we are facing here.
Donald Trump is the Republican front runner but the dirty little secret and what has been a huge surprise to the Democrat party is that Trump is popular among working Democrats and has taken over 20% of there vote. He is the independent front runner too.
We are paying taxes that would kill England in a week, our debt is sky Rocketing and we gave enough money to Iran to buy everyone here a new car just to sit down and make a deal that only benefits them.
The immigrants that come here don't want to be Americans they want America to be like where they came from.
We have students who have migrated here who stand on the toilet seats, wipe there bums and toss the used paper on the floor.
One asked our counselor what is collage? Never went to school a day in there life till they came here, almost non of them have a job.
We are sending money to half the world, bringing the other half here ,sending company's and jobs over seas because our corporate taxes are noncompetitive.
And everyone knows someone who has lost a job to a company leaving of folding up.
Then we have to live in fear, being called the Great Satan in our own home towns by people who came here to change us to Surya Law and spread islam.
Mosques popping up all over. And most people think islam is just another religion same as any other, but no other religion promises peace under the sword, when every knee shall bend to islam.
Or clearly tells a follower what three things they can do to an infedal one is cutting off there head.
It is also ok to rape, lie or kill if it benefits the spread of islam.
We can no longer even just board an airplane it's a major screening now.
We are also being over run by our southern border, There are just to few of us left here paying in to keep things going and most foreign owned small family business keep 2 sets of books to keep from paying taxes and the IRS are hands off with them, also the tax credit problem where Hispanics are declaring family members in mexico and get thousands more back in taxes then they paid in under the child tax credit refund $3,059.00 per child!
People here like Trump because he speaks his mind like a man, and doesn't fear political correctness .
He doesn't take several polls to see what way the wind is blowing before he speaks, He just is who he is love him or hate him and that is a good enough reason for me to vote for him.
Jeff you have said nothing there that I haven't heard from many people here in the UK.
I just don't agree that Trump is the solution. For one he isn't smart enough to have the solutions. Anyone can point at the problems, that's the easy part.
A Crusader...
I really don't think you get Donald Trump.
And I kinda get why, It would be hard to understand living in the U.S. over the years and the changes and challenges we are facing here.
Donald Trump is the Republican front runner but the dirty little secret and what has been a huge surprise to the Democrat party is that Trump is popular among working Democrats and has taken over 20% of there vote. He is the independent front runner too.
We are paying taxes that would kill England in a week, our debt is sky Rocketing and we gave enough money to Iran to buy everyone here a new car just to sit down and make a deal that only benefits them.
The immigrants that come here don't want to be Americans they want America to be like where they came from.
We have students who have migrated here who stand on the toilet seats, wipe there bums and toss the used paper on the floor.
One asked our counselor what is collage? Never went to school a day in there life till they came here, almost non of them have a job.
We are sending money to half the world, bringing the other half here ,sending company's and jobs over seas because our corporate taxes are noncompetitive.
And everyone knows someone who has lost a job to a company leaving of folding up.
Then we have to live in fear, being called the Great Satan in our own home towns by people who came here to change us to Surya Law and spread islam.
Mosques popping up all over. And most people think islam is just another religion same as any other, but no other religion promises peace under the sword, when every knee shall bend to islam.
Or clearly tells a follower what three things they can do to an infedal one is cutting off there head.
It is also ok to rape, lie or kill if it benefits the spread of islam.
We can no longer even just board an airplane it's a major screening now.
We are also being over run by our southern border, There are just to few of us left here paying in to keep things going and most foreign owned small family business keep 2 sets of books to keep from paying taxes and the IRS are hands off with them, also the tax credit problem where Hispanics are declaring family members in mexico and get thousands more back in taxes then they paid in under the child tax credit refund $3,059.00 per child!
People here like Trump because he speaks his mind like a man, and doesn't fear political correctness .
He doesn't take several polls to see what way the wind is blowing before he speaks, He just is who he is love him or hate him and that is a good enough reason for me to vote for him.
TBH, the UK is in a parallel situation, and many attitudes are the same. Not sure what the answer is, and doubt Trump is that solution, but something will need to be done in this world, sometime, if it is not to explode into ww3, which imo, is a strong possibility. I do, of course, hope I am wrong
Super volcano, big asteroid, super virus - will only take one of them and it will all be finished and the survivors can start again, and no doubt cock it all up again :)
Too may genies are already out of the bottle and we can't go back. Managing the situation and just keeping the ship off the rocks is the best of the available outcomes. Messianic leaders are always bad news but they appeal to the disenfranchised - and those who see themselves as disenfranchised even if the reality is they are not.
As for Islam my prediction is that those muslims in the western countries will, over several generations, mostly lose their faith as the majority of Christians have already done.
I think Trump is a little smarter than he is being given credit for, he has saved a lot of businesses from failing.
He is not afraid to ask questions if he dosent know an answer, but most importantly he has not taken a dime of super pack money from anyone more importantly foreign country's!
No one owns him, Do you think Hillary can say that? She is so dishonest even people voting for her dont trust her.
Either he is not very smart or he has no real expectation or intention of actually running for President. Candidates who present radical or extreme solutions to problems are unlikely to win.
I hear you about Hillary but her being bad doesn't make Trump good.
Martin,
You are missing something huge here, because you are not here.
Trump has defied political conventional wisdom, he is the un politician.
I seem to remember some one from England that said a lot of extreme things, liked to drink too .
But stood by his guns and didn't apologize to anyone for being himself.
Winston Churchill ...
I wish you had him now.
Trump is so popular because he dose what he says he will do and doesn't give a Ratz butt if some one disagrees with him.
He is not only running but is so far out in front of everyone else, he would have to eat a live puppy on camera to fall in the poles.
Well I was wrong about Obama, I didn't think he would get in. So my recent track record is not very good :)
Anthony K
12-01-2016, 12:04
Trump is an arse , but is entitled to free speech while it is still allowed ( and he is saying what the masses want )
The American interest in the east has always been the same , MONEY. After years of taking from countries they have to give something back , hence the mass allowance of migrants. The usual problem - solution tactics, It will not have any economic effect on rich C@%ts like Don Trump, the bastards probably invested heavily in those war torn places.
Europe is facing a serious problem and this year I feel it will come to a head - the outcome....fuck knows , but probably the screws being tightened on everyone everyhow
Arkless Electronics
12-01-2016, 13:33
I'd ban anyone stupid enough to vote republican from the U.K as well.
I'd ban anyone stupid enough to vote republican from the U.K as well.
So much hate,shows you are in ignorant person.
I am Republican, and very proud of it.
Do you hate Blacks too?
Do want me to apologize for our party for having freed slaves, expecting the U.S. to act financially responsible and not giving in to political correctness .
And for believing the individuals freedom is more important than the power of an all mighty government?
If everyone in the U.K. thought like you who would want to go there? ASS!
Arkless Electronics
12-01-2016, 14:43
So much hate,shows you are in ignorant person.
I am Republican, and very proud of it.
Do you hate Blacks too?
What by denying them medical care and allowing them to be shot with impunity by gun wielding KKK cops? No. :wanker:
I genuinely hate right wing politics and all who espouse it. So I guess that includes you. It's all about greed and selfishness, keeping the poor down, inequality, maintaining the cream of everything only for those who already have it and I'll fight that, literally, where ever I see it.
I'm a proud socialist who will be out campaigning for Corbyn in the next election.
What by denying them medical care and allowing them to be shot with impunity by gun wielding KKK cops? No. :wanker:
I genuinely hate right wing politics and all who espouse it. So I guess that includes you. It's all about greed and selfishness, keeping the poor down, inequality, maintaining the cream of everything only for those who already have it and I'll fight that, literally, where ever I see it.
I'm a proud socialist who will be out campaigning for Corbyn in the next election.
None has denied anyone medical care, and Obama care doesn't kick in till you have spent $60,000 it's for things like cancer (Catastrophic ) and it's stupid expensive and not working .
The problem is it's no longer insurance when you buy it after your ill? A private company would not wright a policy for some one with pre existing conditions be cause they can't recoup the loss.
It's no longer insurance at that point but government forced transferred wealth.
And no one sick in the U.S. is refused medical care how stupid are you, even if you don't have insurance and can't pay, walk into any hospital and it is illegal for them to turn you away.
Cops here 1 in a thousand are bad but not to just blacks, bad cops are bad to all races.
There is no KKK police force here, just media with a horrible agenda, and a large group of race- baters who earn a living by stirring up hate, and screaming racism every time, now even when a black officer shoots another black man.
The problem with Socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money to spend. Margret Thatcher.
The problem also is Socialism will always resort to communism because once you take away the carrot the only power left is the stick.
Here in America we believe in achieving accomplishment by incentives and the creation of wealth not in the stick forcing people to work because they are left with no motivation.
I believe in the freedom to succeed, we call Capitalism. Socialists are lazy people who take from the hard working .
You really are ignorant.
Gentlemen, if you are going to discuss politics please keep it civil.
Sorry Martin but being called stupid, then making stupid statments is more ignorance than I could take.
Well the democrats are not exactly 'socialists' in the way any UK socialist would recognise so only banning Republican voters would probably not be enough for them in reality...
Martin,
it's sad after decades of Churchill and Thatcher,years of self reliance and keeping a stiff upper lip.
Now look at the entitlement crowds growing in numbers.
There will never be enough people willing to work hard and take risks to create enough wealth to support them all.
An entire generation of selfish people, demanding what others have worked and sacrificed to build.
Arkless Electronics
12-01-2016, 16:04
I'll bow out of this as I would need to take a shower after every correspondence with this right whinger.... the stench of capitalist greed is not a pleasant one.
Martin,
it's sad after decades of Churchill and Thatcher,years of self reliance and keeping a stiff upper lip.
Now look at the entitlement crowds growing in numbers.
There will never be enough people willing to work hard and take risks to create enough wealth to support them all.
An entire generation of selfish people, demanding what others have worked and sacrificed to build.
Honestly.... you could not make this up!
If you had actually lived in this country during the Thatcher years you would have a very different perspective. She was widely despised (and I'm being polite here).
A lot of people disliked Thatcher but still voted for her. I wouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that there was some sort of overwhelming majority that hated her because that simply isn't the case, like it or not.
I'd also like to point out that not being a socialist does not make one automatically greedy and selfish. Some of us do believe, and with good reason, that socialism is not best way to improve the lot of the poor.
I am not referring to everyone, this is not a broad brush statement here,
Just people who look for the government to support them from cradle to grave and there numbers are frightening.
There is a lot to be said for individual responsibility for ones on life.
walpurgis
12-01-2016, 16:17
Just as well I'm not commenting here. :eek:
A lot of people disliked Thatcher but still voted for her. I wouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that there was some sort of overwhelming majority that hated her because that simply isn't the case, like it or not.
Now you know full well that only her constituents voted for her. We don't have a presidential system here. People may have voted for the party, that's not the same thing. As to an overwhelming majority of people hating her - depends where you lived at the time. I was in Scotland, hard to find a fan of hers there!
A lot of people disliked Thatcher but still voted for her. I wouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that there was some sort of overwhelming majority that hated her because that simply isn't the case, like it or not.
I'd also like to point out that not being a socialist does not make one automatically greedy and selfish. Some of us do believe, and with good reason, that socialism is not best way to improve the lot of the poor.
True and also being a Socialist does not make you a Comunist either. Churchill although a great orator and wartime pm was not much cop. As much as I liked him, I know all too well his dramatic failings..Dont start me on Maggie lol
Now you know full well that only her constituents voted for her. We don't have a presidential system here. People may have voted for the party, that's not the same thing. As to an overwhelming majority of people hating her - depends where you lived at the time. I was in Scotland, hard to find a fan of hers there!
They ain't exactly thick on the ground here, either! I think a fair viewpoint is that, overall, she was a mixed bag. I do think those folk who blame the failure of their entire lives on her do need some sort of counselling/reality check, though.
No doubt the terrible option that labour of the day was a big influance on her or the Tory vote. Initially she was good for the country but as her power increased her true nature and intent became evident I,m afraid. Many of her policies both put me on the dole and kept me there for longer than i wish to remember. Trade unions had gone too far one way but she did worse the other way in retribution.
walpurgis
12-01-2016, 16:53
she was a mixed bag.
Just a bag I'd have said. Shame nobody bumped her off.
I was on the dole on the Thatcher era too. Looking back we had no money but we still somehow managed to have a good time all the time. And there was no stress from the dole to get a job because there just weren't any jobs going at all.
walpurgis
12-01-2016, 17:07
I was on the dole on the Thatcher era too. Looking back we had no money but we still somehow managed to have a good time all the time. And there was no stress from the dole to get a job because there just weren't any jobs going at all.
The politics of greed and self interest were a disgrace back then. Just as they are now, dressed up as 'the need for austerity'! Whilst the powerful get more powerful (and richer).
The problem there is not capitalism but corruption, we have it here too.
BTW my wife and I are far from rich.
Or home is a very old 2 bedroom condo not worth much and still we give to others.
Proven by tax returns Conservatives donate to the poor and other charity's far more than Democrates.
Even very rich demo, Hollywood types.
They never give there own wealth just put on events where they recoup everything they spend and ask others to donate.
Greedy, those who know us would never accuse us of that.
BTW look where the money went from live aid.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Ali Tait
12-01-2016, 17:49
Rich enough to spend 15,000 on your truck mods though..
More than most of us pay for a whole car.
I sold my car after being left the truck, and finished the rest after having paid off our condo after years of payments and don't feel bad about it at all.
Still sending money over seas to people who have nothing.
Ali Tait
12-01-2016, 19:02
Just pointing out that whilst you may be far from rich, you are also far from poor.
Not sure what that has to do with working hard.
And trying to create wealth.
Some people think there is a limited number of dollars and if some one gets more someone else by default is getting less.
It shows they don't understand basic economics .
Wealth is both created and lost every day.
Our economy expands and contracts.
The hard to except but true fact is more people have money because of people like a Donald Trump not less.
Ever get a good job from a poor person?
Even Russia and China are beginning to see the light slowly.
They are both rewarding entraponurship and now big world traders making more money and improving there nations .
Do you know the first colonists tried plato utopian socialism and it failed missarably.
Then William Branford created capitalism and our country flourished.
Some would rather us all be equally dirt eating poor than see someone else succeed and that is truly selfish.
Take way incentive to create and build from those who have been successful and we all suffer.
Some people think there is a limited number of dollars and if some one gets more someone else by default is getting less.
It shows they don't understand basic economics .
.
Very good point.
Just pointing out that whilst you may be far from rich, you are also far from poor.
Good point Ali, on a global scale we are all rich and have relatively easy lives. There's 5 billion people in the world without a flushing toilet, let alone the latest smartphone. I think we forget that our way of life isn't what most of the world would consider 'normal', and who on a daily basis spend most of their time worrying about food and water.
Subjective I know, but when you travel a lot it does tend to refocus your mind somewhat.
Old George
13-01-2016, 12:23
...........
Some would rather us all be equally dirt eating poor than see someone else succeed and that is truly selfish.
Take way incentive to create and build from those who have been successful and we all suffer.
Very good point.
Good point Ali, on a global scale we are all rich and have relatively easy lives. There's 5 billion people in the world without a flushing toilet, let alone the latest smartphone. I think we forget that our way of life isn't what most of the world would consider 'normal', and who on a daily basis spend most of their time worrying about food and water.
Subjective I know, but when you travel a lot it does tend to refocus your mind somewhat.
Excellent point Tim - and one of the reasons I travel a lot.
I have just come back from Cameroon (my girlfriend is French-speaking Cameroonian) and there are large differences in living standards there with some living in mud-brick homes without running water or electricity, to those who having made money, build themselves 20 bedroom homes in gated compounds and to salve their conscience go and build an ostentatious and extravagant church to show how charitable they are. Mind you a few do give back to their local community by having a local fresh water network installed.
Ali Tait
13-01-2016, 14:16
Good point Ali, on a global scale we are all rich and have relatively easy lives. There's 5 billion people in the world without a flushing toilet, let alone the latest smartphone. I think we forget that our way of life isn't what most of the world would consider 'normal', and who on a daily basis spend most of their time worrying about food and water.
Subjective I know, but when you travel a lot it does tend to refocus your mind somewhat.
Yes indeed. I lived in Africa as a child, I've seen real poverty.
But now we have 'relative poverty' which ensures the poor are always with us no matter how wealthy they get.
If refused entry, Trump has threatened to stop buying up huge swathes of Scotland to turn into golf course for the mega-rich.
... so keeping him out is really a win-win situation !!
- Scotland gets to keep some of its areas of outstanding natural beauty unscathed, and Rab C Nesbitt (off of the Hamlet advert) retains his title as 'UK King of Comb-overs' :lol:
Some would rather us all be equally dirt eating poor than see someone else succeed and that is truly selfish.
Take way incentive to create and build from those who have been successful and we all suffer.
I have nothing against filthy rich capitalist swine exploiting the humble downtrodden worker at every opportunity - as long as they pay their f*cking dues like the rest of us and stop pretending they are so badly done to by a tax system needed to finance the simple pleasures in life like an army, police, hospitals and schools.
There should be no place to hide for tax evading scum at that level ... except prison (which they also need to cough up for !!!)
I have nothing against filthy rich capitalist swine exploiting the humble downtrodden worker at every opportunity - as long as they pay their f*cking dues like the rest of us and stop pretending they are so badly done to by a tax system needed to finance the simple pleasures in life like an army, police, hospitals and schools.
There should be no place to hide for tax evading scum at that level ... except prison (which they also need to cough up for !!!)
I have no problem with a flat tax where everyone pays 10% to 12%, I have no problem with with any tax system where everyone pays the same equal amount.
Right now the top 5% are paying 90% of of the taxes, because our country has such a high percentage of people who get back more than they paid in at the lower income brackets and that hurts the economy and kills the shrinking middle class. They are now including people who make $200.000 a year in the middle class to prove the middle class still exists. My wife and I don't make even half that.
Look how the dollar has fallen compared to the pound.
In the U.S. we used to celebrate success now I hear people they cheated and made it on the backs of the poor. No they employ people who would other wise be out of work.
Let me give you some personal incite.
For ten years I was a construction laborer , I got a job as a custodian now I am a head custodian (Janitor if you will) I also worked a night job most of my life detailing cars.
My work week was close to and some times over 80 hours. I met my now sister in law who introduced me to my now wife on line. I worked hard took 4 weeks off and went to Pakistan and married my with it took 3 attorneys, while sending her money to live on there and paying my mortgage and bills here to get her here and thousands of dollars, then I had to pay all over again to get here a 10 year visa, now I am paying again to get her citizenship. She is going to school now. With both of us working like hell we saved tome money, my wife dose eye brow threading and henna tattoos.
We also sell Indian jewelry and some cloths.
We went on on this store with my sister in law, so we are just part owners. We now have 2 part time worker, we have had employees in the past rip us off for a lot of money but we got back on our feet.
Both of us work had raising our son my wife has no education, i was born with water on the brain and ceribrial palsy, I have had a lot of surgery to be in this good of shape.
And every day I see lazy whiny people who sleep till noon bitching why life is so unfair.
In my opinion so meany are there own worst enemy.
Problem with a flat tax is the poor pay a huge amount of their earnings while the wealthier pay a pittance in comparison. It was done here with a poll tax by Maggie. Doesnt work well for anyone bar the richer folk...interestingly they are the ones who wanted it lol
Anthony K
13-01-2016, 17:32
Donald Trump has had many companies which he then liquidated leaving investors broke , I believe there was a number of suicides involved due to that selfish son of a twats decision making. Capitalism has proven to be fucking murder literally.
Quite frankly I would not give 2 shakes of a Llama's plonker if the U.S.A sunk like Atlantis, my gripe is that they choose to fuck over anyone that disagrees with their capitalist agenda. My other gripe is that being first cousins of Great Britain , we , the brits end up getting into all kinds of fuckery supporting their arses. The US government is so corrupt it is truly scary. Not to mention the continual fucking over of its own people.
In this day and age it is getting harder just to live an average life , Average , nothing la-di-fuckin-da-di , just getting by with basic human expectations. The USA blueprint of greed has infected the entire world. Now goraman , you have given a fair statement regarding your hard work to get to where you are but I have news for you, SO WHAT? most families I know or have known have done as much as you and far more. That was your life decisions. Regarding immigration to the US , your country is not etting them in for nothing. Most are coming in due to foreign investment in the said country of origin or the fact that the good old US has bombed the shit out of their said country and now wants to make out they are fucking saints. Know the history , now I have not read all of the input here but, Capitalism stinks, your very Barack Obama requested the treasury to print up more dollars to bomb the middle east and got the go ahead to do so, all the while Panama , El Salvador , Cuba , Brazil , were told to kindly fuck off by the world bank on the same request to save its people from poverty.
The USA told its people that anyone can be anything , they could have the world, they fucking lied and the natives are angry. No more steak and apple pie while the rest of the world goes hungry. US government = SHIT , the actual average working person I truly feel sorry for. The same is rapidly happening here.
Right now the top 5% are paying 90% of of the taxes,
Now you really are avin a larf - have they not heard of accountants?
:lol:
Donald Trump has had many companies which he then liquidated leaving investors broke , I believe there was a number of suicides involved due to that selfish son of a twats decision making. Capitalism has proven to be fucking murder literally.
Quite frankly I would not give 2 shakes of a Llama's plonker if the U.S.A sunk like Atlantis, my gripe is that they choose to fuck over anyone that disagrees with their capitalist agenda. My other gripe is that being first cousins of Great Britain , we , the brits end up getting into all kinds of fuckery supporting their arses. The US government is so corrupt it is truly scary. Not to mention the continual fucking over of its own people.
In this day and age it is getting harder just to live an average life , Average , nothing la-di-fuckin-da-di , just getting by with basic human expectations. The USA blueprint of greed has infected the entire world. Now goraman , you have given a fair statement regarding your hard work to get to where you are but I have news for you, SO WHAT? most families I know or have known have done as much as you and far more. That was your life decisions. Regarding immigration to the US , your country is not etting them in for nothing. Most are coming in due to foreign investment in the said country of origin or the fact that the good old US has bombed the shit out of their said country and now wants to make out they are fucking saints. Know the history , now I have not read all of the input here but, Capitalism stinks, your very Barack Obama requested the treasury to print up more dollars to bomb the middle east and got the go ahead to do so, all the while Panama , El Salvador , Cuba , Brazil , were told to kindly fuck off by the world bank on the same request to save its people from poverty.
The USA told its people that anyone can be anything , they could have the world, they fucking lied and the natives are angry. No more steak and apple pie while the rest of the world goes hungry. US government = SHIT , the actual average working person I truly feel sorry for. The same is rapidly happening here.
The cat says it all for me in your Avatar.:mental:
Now you really are avin a larf - have they not heard of accountants?
:lol:
Yes but he is right like it or not. That hospital over there and that school down the road - It's all paid for by taxes taken from the wealthy and the big corporations.
Anthony K
14-01-2016, 23:26
Likewise with that big gas guzzling truck :D
Truck flattens pussy cat, I WIN.
Anthony K
15-01-2016, 11:02
Typical American attitude , if you don't like you kill
Thinking of banning a successful business man who will be the next U.S. president with 24% of the vote of the opposing party now! Yes, almost 25% Democrats are supporting him too.
For speaking his mind,is that Typical British attitude ?
If it is What the Hell is going on over there?
Sadly there is a significant minority in the UK who think they have the moral right to censure any opinions or views they do not agree with. They have been spurred on in recent years by the success of Political Correctness. It wouldn't be so bad if they were right but they are generally wrong about everything including the bit about having the moral right.
We are talking here about people who think the novel '1984' was an instruction manual; rather than a warning.
Anthony K
16-01-2016, 12:51
I did not say he should be banned , I just pointed out he is a complete twat.
I hope your patriotism stands firm when the US goes into Packistan to clean up the so called terrorists.
Trump wanted to stop Muslims from entering the country , will that help? Most of the trouble has been from nationals who have converted.
The U.S already went into Pakistan to clean up the terrorists. They whacked Bin Laden in Pakistan IIRC.
Thinking of banning a successful business man who will be the next U.S. president with 24% of the vote of the opposing party now! Yes, almost 25% Democrats are supporting him too.
For speaking his mind,is that Typical British attitude ?
If it is What the Hell is going on over there?
No-one is really thinking of banning Trump from the UK.
The idea was suggested as a response to his call to ban muslims entry to the USA. It was suggested by an MSP who is a muslim, as she pointed out that Trump wishes to ban her (an elected representative) from entering the USA. She also pointed out that the Home Secretary has used her discretion to ban people from the UK before for crimes such as hate speech etc, and it was argued that Trump could easily be accused of the same.
About the the idea of Trump as a "successful businessman" - there was an article in the London Review of Books recently that pointed out that this is actually far from the truth. He inherited a fortune and his business endeavours have eaten into that fortune, rather than adding to it. There has been no sign of any lawsuit from Trump over this widely reported article, and as he is so litigious where his wealth is concerned we can infer that the facts are accurate. (When Timothy O’Brien, a New York Times journalist, suggested in Trump Nation (2005) that Trump probably wasn’t a billionaire at all, he was sued for libel. The case was eventually thrown out):
‘I have made myself very rich,’ Trump says (over and over again). ‘I would make this country very rich.’ That’s why he should be president. He insists that he’s the ‘most successful man ever to run’, never mind the drafters of the constitution or the supreme commander of the allied forces. Bloomberg puts Trump’s current net worth at $2.9 billion, Forbes at $4.1 billion. The National Journal has worked out that if Trump had just put his father’s money in a mutual fund that tracked the S&P 500 and spent his career finger-painting, he’d have $8 billion.
Full piece here:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n20/deborah-friedell/tycooniest
I'd ban anyone stupid enough to vote republican from the U.K as well.
Anthony is right it was Jez who made that comment banning republicans too.
Arkless Electronics
16-01-2016, 20:26
Quite right too. Take our Tories with you while you're at it :lol:
I did not say he should be banned , I just pointed out he is a complete twat.
I hope your patriotism stands firm when the US goes into Packistan to clean up the so called terrorists.
I have been to Pakistan,Married my wife there.I have family there.We have land there, farm land!
The U.S. has put in new roads and highways with traffic lights that count the time, better than we have.
The U.S. was dumping money into there economy, and at the same time Keeping Osama Binladin right across the street from the busiest military base in Pakistan.
In a walled up compound that was once a house retro fitted for him!
It is well known that a good number of Mosques are just ammo dumps full of guns and IED's.
I read the Koran way back in 95 way before 911.
Before George Bush (not my favorite president) warned us that Islam was a religion of peace it was ok to discuss Mohammad's vision of life of peace under the sword.
It dose say a follower of Islam may lie,rape or kill if it benefits islam, If you are a Muslim you must practice Jihad, if you do not you are an apostate and apostates are killed.
When encountering a non Muslim they can tax him,cut off his head or let him go IF it benefits Islam.
Islam has it's own complete government called surya law. That is in complete conflict with western life and our own governments.
Over night the U.S. has seen it's Muslim population grow.
, they are not assimilating to our culture,most do not even like our country.
Trump says it is not in the best interest of America and the PC Sheeple scream shrilly Raciest!
The people here are voting for Trump because he says what 90% of Americans say to each other.
At some point we have to face that there is a massive global religion more dangerous than the Manson family was.
I do believe that most Muslims wish this stuff was not in the Koran and would like to live a peaceful life but they are under constant threat of being declared an apostate by the minority.
Inviting Islam to a free republic is like inviting cancer. It spreads fast and threatens your life unless you convert and live by it's laws.
Sal am dose mean peace, PEACE WHEN EVERY KNEE BENDS TO ISLAM.
Too many Americans have no clue what the word Caliphate even means, A Caliphate is an Islamic State under complete authority of a all powerful Caliph to spread Islam around the world by the sword.
By Definition we are facing an Islamic Caliphate now that the world has an Islamic State,credit for that go's to the U.S. under the 44th president.
I agree with the assimilate to our way of life entirely. I dont expect them to discard their religion but if it is in contradiction to our way of life then they should change or not come. Thats my take on emigration. If you wish to live in another country then you have to live by their rules if you cannot manage that then you both shouldn't go or be allowed to enter.
I would expect the same if I were emigrating
Read the quote in the big blue box.
https://www.truthorfiction.com/roosevelt-immigration/
Read the quote in the big blue box.
"We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language"
Well I guess that, living in California and all, you are shit out of luck with that one.
DING DING DING,WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
Robert, You have no idea how truly right you are.
DING DING DING,WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
Robert, You have no idea how truly right you are.
Rapists and murderers all.
Shame that many of them can vote though, eh?
Rapists and murderers all.
Shame that many of them can vote though, eh?
You don't have to be a rapist or a murderer to be bad for the country, you just have to support the ideology that encourages it.
Arkless Electronics
17-01-2016, 01:56
Paddle faster..... I hear banjo's... :eyebrows: :D
Jez,A little know fact about your Avatar, Lenin wet his bed well into his twentys.
My Avatar invented soft serve ice cream actually had a job in here life.
Arkless Electronics
17-01-2016, 12:41
Jez,A little know fact about your Avatar, Lenin wet his bed well into his twentys.
My Avatar invented soft serve ice cream actually had a job in here life.
Quite an irony when you think of how many people lost their jobs due to the witch! 100's of thousands! She would have done the world a great service by sticking to ice cream. BTW do they not have spell checkers in murica? Or teach basic grammar?
Stratmangler
17-01-2016, 12:49
BTW do they not have spell checkers in murica? Or teach basic grammar?
That's below the belt Jez - Jeff could be dyslexic for all you know.
There are plenty on here that are dyslexic, and plenty of others that are lacking in basic grammar skills, and you don't have a go at them for it, so why are you singling Jeff out?
Stratmangler
17-01-2016, 12:52
And in answer to the original post, this is the answer to the question http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35337622
Come on lads... Less of the nasty or personal stuff please... No need for it.
Wilfred of Ivanhoe
17-01-2016, 13:25
Hot issue. I'm in this country because I LOVE live here: the way of life, the history, etc., same when was in Usa.
When met guy that "hate" to live in Europe I use ask them why they don't move back: no answer given.
And in answer to the original post, this is the answer to the question http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35337622
LOL 'Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said he would invite Donald Trump along to a mosque if he came to the UK.
I'm sure he would be awake the night before with the excitement.
Where would you take Donald Trump? Could you show him a better day out than Corbyn? I know it's not much of a challenge.
My Avatar invented soft serve ice cream .....
Actually that's just an urban myth - she didn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_serve
Stratmangler
17-01-2016, 14:28
LOL 'Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said he would invite Donald Trump along to a mosque if he came to the UK.
I'm sure he would be awake the night before with the excitement.
Where would you take Donald Trump? Could you show him a better day out than Corbyn? I know it's not much of a challenge.
I was referring to the question and answer at around 40 seconds in on the video .....
With regard to your question, I'm not sure that Donald Trump would appreciate slumming it going to see Manchester City playing at home, although we could fit in going to Grandma Pollard's (http://www.grandmapollards.co.uk/) for a decent fish & chip supper before the game if it's an evening kick off.
First thing I'd do is take Trump for a late breakfast of egg and chips in one of our many delightful greasy spoons. Then over to the bookies to put our bets on. Maybe a quick look in Rubber Soul Records, if he's into his vinyl, which I'm sure he is. Over to the 'Staff' for a couple then back to the bookies to see how the nags do. After that maybe a swift half in the White Star, take him down to see the canal and the D-road. Then back to mine via the Agra and the off-licence, curry, a few beers and put a decent film on. Probably 'A Bridge Too Far', since it's a good watch and has Americans in it so he will be able to relate.
Now that's a day out. 'Take him to a mosque', indeed!
Arkless Electronics
17-01-2016, 15:16
That's below the belt Jez - Jeff could be dyslexic for all you know.
There are plenty on here that are dyslexic, and plenty of others that are lacking in basic grammar skills, and you don't have a go at them for it, so why are you singling Jeff out?
'Cos as a far right republican in a petrol gorging vehicle of hideousness and mass pollution, probable red-neck, probable supporter of the NRA, he stands for everything I detest and wish to change.... probably drives past food banks yelling scroungers whilst not thinking for one second that they may be unemployed because one of his GOP big business heroes (like Trump) outsourced all their jobs to China for a quick buck. Lou Reed's "New York" painted with eloquent vitriol a seedy picture of just what's wrong with right wing corporate America. A small sample.
"Give me your hungry, your tired, your poor I'll piss on 'em
That's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses
Let's club 'em to death
And get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard
Get 'em out on the dirty boulevard"
As a socialist I believe in people before profit. Right whingers tend to believe in the law of the jungle, something one would hope we, as human beings, have managed to evolve out of as one of the things that sets us apart from the animal kingdom. A right whinger will often take the view that if someone has no money and food, even though it's through no fault of their own, that they are "a loser" and a burden on those who have plenty. A socialist can see that circumstance (and probably the machinations of the greedy and cunning) have landed the unfortunate in their plight and can see that those who have more than enough should contribute to the welfare of those less fortunate for the general good of society. You know, SOCIETY, that thing that Thatcher claimed no longer exists and did her best to wipe out where she saw it. As someone from the North East and living in an ex mining town I assure people that she is still hated with a rawness.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing (and say nothing).
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing (and say nothing).
But what if you think Socialism is evil? Or is it only Socialists who get to decide what is good or evil?
Arkless Electronics
17-01-2016, 15:43
But what if you think Socialism is evil? Or is it only Socialists who get to decide what is good or evil?
Ask the unemployed miners, steelworkers, shipyard workers. The refugees from wars started over oil who shiver in tents in Calais.....
All victims of the greed of those who already have more than plenty but for whom it's never enough...
'Cos as a far right republican in a petrol gorging vehicle of hideousness and mass pollution, probable red-neck, probable supporter of the NRA, he stands for everything I detest and wish to change.... probably drives past food banks yelling scroungers whilst not thinking for one second that they may be unemployed because one of his GOP big business heroes (like Trump) outsourced all their jobs to China for a quick buck. Lou Reed's "New York" painted with eloquent vitriol a seedy picture of just what's wrong with right wing corporate America. A small sample.
"Give me your hungry, your tired, your poor I'll piss on 'em
That's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses
Let's club 'em to death
And get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard
Get 'em out on the dirty boulevard"
As a socialist I believe in people before profit. Right whingers tend to believe in the law of the jungle, something one would hope we, as human beings, have managed to evolve out of as one of the things that sets us apart from the animal kingdom. A right whinger will often take the view that if someone has no money and food, even though it's through no fault of their own, that they are "a loser" and a burden on those who have plenty. A socialist can see that circumstance (and probably the machinations of the greedy and cunning) have landed the unfortunate in their plight and can see that those who have more than enough should contribute to the welfare of those less fortunate for the general good of society. You know, SOCIETY, that thing that Thatcher claimed no longer exists and did her best to wipe out where she saw it. As someone from the North East and living in an ex mining town I assure people that she is still hated with a rawness.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing (and say nothing).
I just realized this man has never met a right winger.
He doesn't have the first clue what the Hell he is talking about, He is full of hate due to his own personal failures and has made a group of people his escape goat.
hr is in fact a Mad Hater, Republicans are in fact big givers,there would be no food banks here with out our donations.
It's us right wingers that go to church and when the collection plate comes around the 2nd time to help the poor it is far from ignored, it is use republican business owners who sponsor caned food drives and donate heavily. And our kids are taught to be charitable. Did it ever occur to him that donations are are from people who have succeeded in life and wish to help others.
Socialism is the little brother to Communism the one of the biggest Evil's on the planet.
'Cos as a far right republican in a petrol gorging vehicle of hideousness and mass pollution, probable red-neck, probable supporter of the NRA, he stands for everything I detest and wish to change.... probably drives past food banks yelling scroungers whilst not thinking for one second that they may be unemployed because one of his GOP big business heroes (like Trump) outsourced all their jobs to China for a quick buck. Lou Reed's "New York" painted with eloquent vitriol a seedy picture of just what's wrong with right wing corporate America. A small sample.
"Give me your hungry, your tired, your poor I'll piss on 'em
That's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses
Let's club 'em to death
And get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard
Get 'em out on the dirty boulevard"
As a socialist I believe in people before profit. Right whingers tend to believe in the law of the jungle, something one would hope we, as human beings, have managed to evolve out of as one of the things that sets us apart from the animal kingdom. A right whinger will often take the view that if someone has no money and food, even though it's through no fault of their own, that they are "a loser" and a burden on those who have plenty. A socialist can see that circumstance (and probably the machinations of the greedy and cunning) have landed the unfortunate in their plight and can see that those who have more than enough should contribute to the welfare of those less fortunate for the general good of society. You know, SOCIETY, that thing that Thatcher claimed no longer exists and did her best to wipe out where she saw it. As someone from the North East and living in an ex mining town I assure people that she is still hated with a rawness.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing (and say nothing).
I just realized this man has never met a right winger.
He doesn't have the first clue what the Hell he is talking about, He is full of hate due to his own personal failures and has made a group of people his escape goat.
He is in fact a Mad Hater, Republicans are in fact big givers,there would be no food banks here with out our donations.
It's us right wingers that go to church and when the collection plate comes around the 2nd time to help the poor it is far from ignored, it is us republican business owners who sponsor caned food drives and donate heavily. And our kids are taught to be charitable. Did it ever occur to him that donations are from people who have succeeded in life and wish to help others.
Socialism is the little brother to Communism the one of the biggest Evil's on the planet.
By the way Margret Thatcher was an intellectual Giant compared to Lenin, she could kick the crap out of that shinny twit on any given Saturday Afternoon just for general principals too.
Arkless Electronics
17-01-2016, 18:40
More backing for banning Trump http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35338395 from a nice socialist Scotsman :D
Has anyone got a link to a site where I can buy me one of these escape goats?
Stratmangler
17-01-2016, 22:50
Has anyone got a link to a site where I can buy me one of these escape goats?
That's below the belt Unfuckingpronouncable - Jeff could be dyslexic for all you know.
There are plenty on here that are dyslexic, and plenty of others that are lacking in basic grammar skills, and you don't have a go at them for it, so why are you singling Jeff out?
You're just out for cheap shots and cheap thrills, just like Jez.
That's below the belt Unfuckingpronouncable - Jeff could be dyslexic for all you know.
There are plenty on here that are dyslexic, and plenty of others that are lacking in basic grammar skills, and you don't have a go at them for it, so why are you singling Jeff out?
You're just out for cheap shots and cheap thrills, just like Jez.
Bollocks
Thought I said to play fair ... any more of it and posts will be deleted. ;)
Yeah, Robert, in particular, rein it in, as your recent posts here are verging more and more towards the confrontational, which isn't conducive with the relaxed and friendly vibe we like here on AoS.
Marco.
Stratmangler
17-01-2016, 23:11
'Cos as a far right republican in a petrol gorging vehicle of hideousness and mass pollution, probable red-neck, probable supporter of the NRA, he stands for everything I detest and wish to change.... probably drives past food banks yelling scroungers whilst not thinking for one second that they may be unemployed because one of his GOP big business heroes (like Trump) outsourced all their jobs to China for a quick buck. Lou Reed's "New York" painted with eloquent vitriol a seedy picture of just what's wrong with right wing corporate America. A small sample.
"Give me your hungry, your tired, your poor I'll piss on 'em
That's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses
Let's club 'em to death
And get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard
Get 'em out on the dirty boulevard"
As a socialist I believe in people before profit. Right whingers tend to believe in the law of the jungle, something one would hope we, as human beings, have managed to evolve out of as one of the things that sets us apart from the animal kingdom. A right whinger will often take the view that if someone has no money and food, even though it's through no fault of their own, that they are "a loser" and a burden on those who have plenty. A socialist can see that circumstance (and probably the machinations of the greedy and cunning) have landed the unfortunate in their plight and can see that those who have more than enough should contribute to the welfare of those less fortunate for the general good of society. You know, SOCIETY, that thing that Thatcher claimed no longer exists and did her best to wipe out where she saw it. As someone from the North East and living in an ex mining town I assure people that she is still hated with a rawness.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing (and say nothing).
I didn't question your political stance Jez.
You have very clearly avoided answering my question with your tirade, so my question still stands.
That's below the belt Jez - Jeff could be dyslexic for all you know.
There are plenty on here that are dyslexic, and plenty of others that are lacking in basic grammar skills, and you don't have a go at them for it, so why are you singling Jeff out?
Yeah, Robert, in particular, rein it in, as your recent posts here are verging more and more towards the confrontational, which isn't conducive with the relaxed and friendly vibe we like here on AoS.
What posts have been so confrontational that you feel you need to point this out to me in public, Marco? Are you taking exception to my standing my ground against the deluded and patronising nonsense that has been written in the climate change thread, or that I pointed out that there seemed to be a lot of videos of shit and piss being posted (that aren't conducive to the relaxed vibe)?
"Escape Goat" is a pretty fine example of a malapropism. It isn't dyslexia or bad grammar. It is a malapropism, and it is funny. To be accused of singling someone out as if I am bullying a grown man by making a light joke about something that is self-evidently funny was, I felt, nonsense. So I replied in kind. Jeff certainly talks big enough to appear fit to fight his own battles, even if I do suspect he is trolling us a little.
So please tell me what else I have said that is so confrontational that it needs a public rebuke?
'Damp squid' is good. I also like 'towing the line'; 'one foul swoop' and 'off your own back'.
What posts have been so confrontational that you feel you need to point this out to me in public, Marco? Are you taking exception to my standing my ground against the deluded and patronising nonsense that has been written in the climate change thread, or that I pointed out that there seemed to be a lot of videos of shit and piss being posted (that aren't conducive to the relaxed vibe)?
"Escape Goat" is a pretty fine example of a malapropism. It isn't dyslexia or bad grammar. It is a malapropism, and it is funny. To be accused of singling someone out as if I am bullying a grown man by making a light joke about something that is self-evidently funny was, I felt, nonsense. So I replied in kind. Jeff certainly talks big enough to appear fit to fight his own battles, even if I do suspect he is trolling us a little.
So please tell me what else I have said that is so confrontational that it needs a public rebuke?
Well, your comment to me yesterday about being "delusional" is an example. I let that slide (as it was probably tongue-in-cheek), but some of your posts this evening, not so much in terms of content, but how they've been expressed, have left a little to be desired, and where you have gotten a little personal.
Anyway, and this applies to EVERYONE: please keep your arguments/points of view STRICTLY about the topic of discussion, and not directed at the poster [i.e play the ball, not the man]. Any further personal remarks, made by ANYONE, will be deleted without further warning.
Marco.
What posts have been so confrontational that you feel you need to point this out to me in public, Marco? Are you taking exception to my standing my ground against the deluded and patronising nonsense that has been written in the climate change thread, or that I pointed out that there seemed to be a lot of videos of shit and piss being posted (that aren't conducive to the relaxed vibe)?
"Escape Goat" is a pretty fine example of a malapropism. It isn't dyslexia or bad grammar. It is a malapropism, and it is funny. To be accused of singling someone out as if I am bullying a grown man by making a light joke about something that is self-evidently funny was, I felt, nonsense. So I replied in kind. Jeff certainly talks big enough to appear fit to fight his own battles, even if I do suspect he is trolling us a little.
So please tell me what else I have said that is so confrontational that it needs a public rebuke?
Seconded
... to be honest I support Robert wholeheartedly on this having also been called by a moderator for being 'sarcastic' on the GW thread despite the clearly provocative stance being taken by another poster (who is also a moderator) that passes unremarked. I am also quite frankly getting really put off this site by the level of playground 'potty' banter that seems to be something of a fashion.
I thought Robert's 'Escape Goat' joke perfectly harmless and clearly in fun
I am also quite frankly getting really put off this site by the level of playground 'potty' banter that seems to be something of a fashion.
Well, don't read it then, simples! :)
There's plenty of stuff that I don't like (including political discussions like this, which generally always end in acrimony), so I just ignore it and any other of the site's content that doesn't interest me, and concentrate on what I do like. I suggest you do the same.
I thought Robert's 'Escape Goat' joke perfectly harmless and clearly in fun
Clearly then "fun" is subjective, as whilst I can't dispute that Robert didn't mean it in a bad way, it didn't come across like that, as Chris pointed out.
Marco.
Clearly then "fun" is subjective, as whilst I can't dispute that Robert didn't mean it in a bad way, it didn't come across like that, as Chris pointed out.
Maybe if he'd used a smiley or two ....?
Lol.... But yes, more seriously, that always helps! :)
Marco.
Well, don't read it then, simples! :)
Marco.
If only life were indeed that 'simples' Marco but as there is absolutely no way of knowing in advance when the next dose of double-entendre or anal inference will be dumped into a totally unrelated thread perhaps the 'simples' solution would be to ignore the lot ...
Perhaps the Mods could spend some time designing a 'smut icon' that members can add to their post to warn of impending verbal defecation :lol:
I am going to stop posting this thread it is becoming toxic and no good is going to come from it.
Just to clear things up, I am not Dyslexic, I do have difficulty with spelling as when synapses where making connections while in the womb, I was suffering Hydrocephalus due to Cerebral Palsy.
It affects a number of functions like fact memory for example spelling, times tables , the mechanics of math are not a problem but retrieval of memorized data id difficult, I spell much better when I am actually writing than typing for some odd reason, also it messed up my sense of balance, I leaned forward when walking and walked on my toes for years till in my late 30's when I had a pretty invasive leg surgery where I now have 6 inches of Teflon just above my ankles. I had surgery before 6 months on my wrists, hands legs and head. My doctor to this day calls me a medical miracle as in 2007 I was told I would be able to walk but would NEVER be able to return to work or be as physically active. Well I am still working years after being told I may be able to for a couple years after returning for 6 months. Well here I am still riding my bike, working and I just got back from hiking up a hill in 3 ft. snow on Donner summit, The snow was up passed my knees, my legs hurt, i'm tired but it was cool to get to the top.
So yes, I do have some dysfunctional processes going on but my mind is clear thinking even if I am a little crazy but that is not a defect it is just me.
Arkless Electronics
18-01-2016, 01:20
The first internet sport we had on this little isle was "yank baiting".....
Yeah lets call a truce and just enjoy the music.
Music can exist and enlighten beyond all politics folks. I couldn't watch this till the end: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06vkbcs/leningrad-the-orchestra-that-defied-hitler it was too upsetting.... but also showed the power of the human spirit, and how music can continue to inspire against the best efforts of the (identical) Hitler and Stalin combined.
I'm guessing you may have a "hog" to ride alongside that truck Jeff? Honda CBR1100 here :)
twickers
18-01-2016, 18:58
Seconded
... to be honest I support Robert wholeheartedly on this having also been called by a moderator for being 'sarcastic' on the GW thread despite the clearly provocative stance being taken by another poster (who is also a moderator) that passes unremarked. I am also quite frankly getting really put off this site by the level of playground 'potty' banter that seems to be something of a fashion.
I thought Robert's 'Escape Goat' joke perfectly harmless and clearly in fun
It's all Marco's fault. He's the worst out of everyone. The mods need to have a word with him and give him a good spanking.(smiley faces).
They won't because they know I'd like it! :D :lol:
Marco.
aye!, and look at me now :doh: and I'm only 40 ;)
What's that, your trousers? :D
Marco.
Trump may well be wrong but how else do we start to get a handle on the murdering scum that hide among the peaceful Muslims?
twickers
18-01-2016, 21:52
Trump may well be wrong but how else do we start to get a handle on the murdering scum that hide among the peaceful Muslims?
Did you change that blatantly racist post or did a mod remove it?
I think the mods need to lock this thread.
Did you change that blatantly racist post or did a mod remove it?
I think the mods need to lock this thread.
The fact he removed it and posted again shows he himself felt it wrong. It doesnt need highlighing. Thanks
twickers
18-01-2016, 22:38
Yeah, you're right. Let's cover it up and pretend it never happened.
It wasn't racist in any case.
twickers
19-01-2016, 14:04
It wasn't racist in any case.
That's comforting to know for any muslim who might read this site that " they shouldn't let anymore in and should send the rest home" isn't in any way racist because macca said so. I'm paraphrasing because the original post was taken down. Most strange. Try using it as a headline in a newspaper and see what reaction you'd get.
The Black Adder
19-01-2016, 14:23
Of course it was racist, Macca... It was inflammatory and in insult to muslims. To even suggest to seperate and tar a race of whom are law-abiding, peaceful people in such a context is I believe a racist remark.
It was something I could imagine being said in the 1970's - It's not the 70's anymore, socity has changed and because of wanker Trump enciting seperation in such a gung-ho, warhammer way I can only say this... IF he ever does become president of the USA, this world will be at war within months.
He's been called a racist, homophobic biggot and I have to agree, his money buys him anything he wants from the people who are bent on greed and have no scruples or morals, THAT is a recipe for disaster. He has no fears, all he cares about is his own fucked up vanity and bank balance.
In a lot of ways he reminds me of Farage in what he says, but in a more scary regime kind of way.
Did anyone see his introduction on US TV the other day? It was sickening.... he's a complete greed driven fuck-wit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fStuXKAR8pk
Perhaps more folk should have this in their hearts
Old George
19-01-2016, 15:18
Of course it was racist, Macca... It was inflammatory and in insult to muslims.
.
Just a polite question, what race are Muslims?
walpurgis
19-01-2016, 16:06
Is there some confusion on this thread as to the difference between an observation mentioning race/creed/ethnicity and what constitutes a racist comment?
What happens when mods disagree? Is the point settled by arm-wrestling, handbags at dawn, or a bitch-off?
twickers
19-01-2016, 16:34
I reckon' naked wrestling. Smothered in turntable bearing oil with a few blasts of de-oxit for those with creaky joints.
walpurgis
19-01-2016, 16:43
What happens when mods disagree?
We moderate each other. In moderation of course. ;) :D
Is there some confusion on this thread as to the difference between an observation mentioning race/creed/ethnicity and what constitutes a racist comment?
I'd have thought the two were more or less interchangeable, really. If I make a derogatory observation relating to a particular race/creed/ethnicity then I'm making a racist comment in the eyes of the law. (Of course if the observation was positive rather than derogatory, I doubt anyone would notice or care).
Just a polite question, what race are Muslims?
Ah! At least someone gets it!
what makes me laugh is the amount of vitriol poured on Catholics and the Catholic church in threads passim - someone explain to me why that is okay but Islam is out of bounds?
I reckon' naked wrestling. Smothered in turntable bearing oil with a few blasts of de-oxit for those with creaky joints.
Surprisingly accurate....
I'd have thought the two were more or less interchangeable, really. If I make a derogatory observation relating to a particular race/creed/ethnicity then I'm making a racist comment in the eyes of the law.
Indeed, Anti-Discrimination law protects people on the basis of their race, gender and/or religious beliefs, so derogatory statements on any of these aspects would effectively be treated as equal under law. It should also be said that statements to the effect that people (or peoples) of a certain religious affiliation should be 'sent back where they came from' is also effectively implying a division based on race and/or ethnicity so any attempts at 'hair-splitting' on this issue are on dangerously thin ice.
I am sure The Sun has very good lawyers to prevent any of their more notorious columnists stepping over the boundary but I for one would not feel confident moderating a public forum in this area without some serious legal back-up .... also worth bearing in mind that deleting a comment does not of itself constitute any real protection from complaints or potential consequences :(
Old George
19-01-2016, 18:56
I'd have thought the two were more or less interchangeable, really. If I make a derogatory observation relating to a particular race/creed/ethnicity then I'm making a racist comment in the eyes of the law.
(Of course if the observation was positive rather than derogatory, I doubt anyone would notice or care).
And as we know Joe, the law is an ASS. Open to interpretation and manipulation.
Ah! At least someone gets it!
what makes me laugh is the amount of vitriol poured on Catholics and the Catholic church in threads passim - someone explain to me why that is okay but Islam is out of bounds?
Cos it aint PC Martin. Muslims have been 'flavour of the month/year/decade' with the more rabid elements of the PC brigade, notice how the previous 'flavour of the month' black community have been moved to the back burner?
The law may well be an ass, but if I was a forum owner/moderator I'd be erring on the side of caution.
Of course it was racist, Macca... It was inflammatory and in insult to muslims. To even suggest to seperate and tar a race of whom are law-abiding, peaceful people in such a context is I believe a racist remark.
It was something I could imagine being said in the 1970's - It's not the 70's anymore, socity has changed and because of wanker Trump enciting seperation in such a gung-ho, warhammer way I can only say this... IF he ever does become president of the USA, this world will be at war within months.
He's been called a racist, homophobic biggot and I have to agree, his money buys him anything he wants from the people who are bent on greed and have no scruples or morals, THAT is a recipe for disaster. He has no fears, all he cares about is his own fucked up vanity and bank balance.
In a lot of ways he reminds me of Farage in what he says, but in a more scary regime kind of way.
Did anyone see his introduction on US TV the other day? It was sickening.... he's a complete greed driven fuck-wit.
:clapclapclap:
well said that woman.
And as we know Joe, the law is an ASS. Open to interpretation and manipulation.
Cos it aint PC Martin. Muslims have been 'flavour of the month/year/decade' with the more rabid elements of the PC brigade, notice how the previous 'flavour of the month' black community have been moved to the back burner?
Indeed. If they are anything it is inconsistent. But then that is inevitable if your position is illogical to begin with.
I'm not sure that I see much value in allowing this discussion to continue. Anyone care to convince me differently? These types of threads are certainly not ones I seek to encourage.
Marco.
I think closing the thread would play into the hands of the politically correct. The one thing that terrifies them more than anything else is that there should be an open debate about anything. People might come to the 'wrong' conclusions. Which is why they want to ban Trump from coming here; instead of allowing him in, debating with him and demolishing his arguments publically.
Well as the OP, I agree Marco, it's run it's course now so I'd be happy to see it closed?
Not sure anyone would have much to add and it's served it's purpose now.
Its opened my eyes to some folks behaviour... I would say its passed its sell by date. As maybe have I
Well as the OP, I agree Marco, it's run it's course now so I'd be happy to see it closed?
Not sure anyone would have much to add and it's served it's purpose now.
The whole US election process has a good way to run yet, so I imagine there will be more to be said as it goes on. The endorsement just yesterday from professional halfwit Sarah Palin for example, has to be able to provide either some extra comedy, or at least some general dismay. The thread seemed to mainly break down over the last few posts due to a distraction about whether something was racist or not. Trump clearly is (or is affecting to be for electoral gain) racist. His comments about Mexicans being rapists and murderers leave no question about that. His comments about banning Muslims entry to the US also back that up (and yes I know Islam is not a race) because the idea that he was pandering to was of the "raghead", the Iraqi, Afghan or the Syrian etc. I suppose the problem with him (for those of us who abhor him and everything he represents - which I think I am safe in saying includes most people in the UK, if not indeed everywhere outside the US) is that these things that he is saying seem to be actually increasing his support.
I am not sure what closing the thread would achieve other than causing a new one to pop up at some point, but on the plus side it would mean at least that we could stop hearing about this idiot of a man, and helpfully for forum relations not have to face up to views of other forum members that differ so drastically from our own.
Here is an interesting article about his supporters:
An article about statistical analysis of support for Donald Trump. (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-2016-authoritarian-213533)
I was a bit disappointed that after I linked to a very well written article about him in the LRB (which pointed out that the idea of him as the greatest businessman is just a complete lie) not one person commented on it. This illustrates Trump's power - he appeals to a part of the brain that has no need for facts, only the gut feeling, and some people like what he says and so will not even notice that it is all a con and that they are the mark.
Here is the article again, for anyone who is interested in a well-informed, intelligent piece of writing.
‘I have made myself very rich,’ Trump says (over and over again). ‘I would make this country very rich.’ That’s why he should be president. He insists that he’s the ‘most successful man ever to run’, never mind the drafters of the constitution or the supreme commander of the allied forces. Bloomberg puts Trump’s current net worth at $2.9 billion, Forbes at $4.1 billion. The National Journal has worked out that if Trump had just put his father’s money in a mutual fund that tracked the S&P 500 and spent his career finger-painting, he’d have $8 billion.
Full piece here:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n20/deborah-friedell/tycooniest
Rob, I did read the article you linked to at the time but I didn't really think it contributed anything worth commenting on. I think it is pretty much common knowledge that he inherited his fortune rather than being self-made.
I would prefer that all views are aired. If it is the case that those views are so different from others' that it makes them uncomfortable then so much the better. The way to deal with views that you consider wrong is to present coherent argument against them rather than demand that they be supressed or censored.
Rob, I did read the article you linked to at the time but I didn't really think it contributed anything worth commenting on. I think it is pretty much common knowledge that he inherited his fortune rather than being self-made.
The bit I thought was interesting is that his business career has lost him half of his fortune, yet he sells himself as "the most successful man ever to run".
I would prefer that all views are aired. If it is the case that those views are so different from others' that it makes them uncomfortable then so much the better. The way to deal with views that you consider wrong is to present coherent argument against them rather than demand that they be supressed or censored.
I agree with this largely, whilst admitting that arguing on the internet about such things is generally not going to change anyone's point of view, although it can be fun.
My own opinion is that Trump is a hateful man, a vain man, and that his supporters also seem to be hateful and vain, nor do they seem to grasp what a disaster he would be for their country were he ever to make it to the White House.
My big hope for world politics is that Bernie Sanders wins the Democrat nomination, and then the election. ((Cat>>Pigeons))
The first quote is to sow confusion in the mind of any Trump supporting patriots:
"Not only must we fight to end disastrous unfettered free trade agreements with China, Mexico, and other low wage countries, we must fight to fundamentally rewrite our trade agreements so that American products, not jobs, are our number one export."
"There are a lot of smart honest, progressive people who I think can be good presidents."
Bernie Sanders
:)
I would prefer that all views are aired. If it is the case that those views are so different from others' that it makes them uncomfortable then so much the better. The way to deal with views that you consider wrong is to present coherent argument against them rather than demand that they be supressed or censored.
I have to agree. *However*, if you don't want the thread locked, then from now on ensure that there isn't even the merest whiff of anything which could be construed as a racist remark, and that you target the arguments of your 'opponent', as it were, NOT him or her.
In short, NO personal remarks and no racist inferences. Stick strictly to the topic of the discussion, and treat each other with due respect and civility. Any veering from that will result in the thread being locked, without further warning - and that applies to EVERYONE.
Marco.
Did you change that blatantly racist post or did a mod remove it?
I think the mods need to lock this thread.
I changed it. Because I knew small minded folk would consider it racist.
I changed it. Because I knew small minded folk would consider it racist.
Andrew, did you read my last post? What did I say about personal remarks?? Enough!
Next person to make any personal remarks on this thread, or take the discussion down a confrontational path, will be banned for a week - and I mean it. I don't issue warnings for the good of my health!
Marco.
Let's bring this back to music with a bit of Woody Guthrie, who manages to slide on in to the subject...
https://theconversation.com/woody-guthrie-old-man-trump-and-a-real-estate-empires-racist-foundations-53026
Light Dependant Resistor
22-01-2016, 01:40
Hi
Many so called leaders, have managed in the past to attract attention from
outlandish behaviour. Mr Trump, is just like a predecessor Ronald Reagan, a actor.
What drives people to be attracted to this type of acting behaviour is disturbing, akin to TV
watching disorders.
The causes by those acting centre stage, are always centred in forms of mental illness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalomania the moments where acting stops and
real behaviour takes over, are in the case of such people, rarely if ever seen.
The film Fahrenheit 9/11, exposed along with many things, the ability of Americans to
tilt elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_9/11
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2000#Florida_ recount
Also disturbing is the percentage of person's who do not vote, something which Frank Zappa
always alerted his audiences to. It would appear little as changed, as voting is still not mandatory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oaw_jGiGdy4
For me, it is very worrying that Trump has gotten this far along the road to being President.
I keep hoping that the American public will see sense.
This advert increases my hope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0pO9VG1J8
If he wins they are all going to a camp:D
For me, it is very worrying that Trump has gotten this far along the road to being President.
I keep hoping that the American public will see sense.
This advert increases my hope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0pO9VG1J8
Trump (and Sanders, for that matter) has gotten as far as he has because Americans are desperate for change. We haven't had any real meaningful government reform in over two decades. Voters are disillusioned because they thought they were voting for real change eight years ago with Obama. Voters know they will get real change with a guy like Trump (for better or worse).
Voters know they will get real change with a guy like Trump (for better or worse).
but this is exactly what I, and others (hopefully enough others in your country ) are worried about.
Look at him. listen to what he says and the manner in which he says it.
To me he comes across as mentally unstable. A loose cannon. Is that really what your country is going to vote for......... for him to lead you !!
It is the "worst " that you talk off that is the worry. It is just far too risky.
but this is exactly what I, and others (hopefully enough others in your country ) are worried about.
Look at him. listen to what he says and the manner in which he says it.
To me he comes across as mentally unstable. A loose cannon. Is that really what your country is going to vote for......... for him to lead you !!
It is the "worst " that you talk off that is the worry. It is just far too risky.
He's just not a slick politician, he's more of an every-man. Americans are passionate about their politics and most people burst out into anger when talking about issues important to them. It's a subject matter that's generally avoided here.
I see this as just the beginning really. Both party platforms are way out of touch with young people. They've ignored them for so long since Gen-Xers don't vote and there's so many baby boomers.
Light Dependant Resistor
15-10-2016, 06:54
He's just not a slick politician, he's more of an every-man. Americans are passionate about their politics and most people burst out into anger when talking about issues important to them. It's a subject matter that's generally avoided here.
I see this as just the beginning really. Both party platforms are way out of touch with young people. They've ignored them for so long since Gen-Xers don't vote and there's so many baby boomers.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-15/donald-trump-calls-accusers-%27sick%27-liars-as-new-claims-surface/7935672
Just waiting for some men to similarly comment. :D
I know what I'd like to do to that idiot ;)
Marco.
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