Recommendations for cartridge alignment please folks

[HackneyRF]

Hi all

Back to basics question coming up. So I have in my hand a Denon DL110 waiting to fitted courtesy of Ben (Zoidburg). Thanks mate. The tonearm is the standard TP-16 on the TD160. What alignment protractor would you guys recommend I use? It's been a very very long time since I have attempted this so I'm almost starting from scratch again. I prefer not to get too bogged down with the science/physics (my brain just ain't wired that way) but I'd really like to have a go at it myself first. Thanks in advance

All the best

Loz

[struth]

Have you got any? Most work well enough tbh although some are better than others. I use a MOBILE FIDELITY GEO-DISC ! But they are fairly expensive. Never had any probs with using it and it's fairly easy once you get the knack.

[RobbieGong]

Hi Loz, You've the right idea keeping it simple and having a go yourself. I'd log onto Vinyl Engine http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/ucp.php?i=profile&mode=reg_details. They have loads of free protractors under Tools and lots of advise. You can find out which protractors are suitable for your arm and print off. Be careful to print to the specified scale otherwise you'll go mad wondering why it wont work :lol:

I've always used Baerwald mainly because having the stylus follow an arc or natural course across the record makes sense to my simple head ;) All the best :)

[HackneyRF]

Not yet Grant. Been looking at the Mobile Fidelity Geo Disc as well as cheaper ones. Don't mind spending a bit extra if it's easier and more straightforward use.

[struth]

Its the easiest probably as you don't go trying to get it spot on in two positions.. You will find that using 2 bits of tape securing the disc position after you get it lined up exactly in line with the pivot point a big help. Alignment takes 5 mins if your very fussy:D

Been using it for many years happily and am on my second after accidentally sitting on the first

[HackneyRF]

Hi Loz, You've the right idea keeping it simple and having a go yourself. I'd log onto Vinyl Engine http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/ucp.php?i=profile&mode=reg_details. They have loads of free protractors under Tools and lots of advise. You can find out which protractors are suitable for your arm and print off. Be careful to print to the specified scale otherwise you'll go mad wondering why it wont work :lol:

I've always used Baerwald mainly because having the stylus follow an arc or natural course across the record makes sense to my simple head ;) All the best :)

Thanks for that Rob. Will have a look at that. Chance to do some printing at work tomorrow! :eyebrows:

[IslandPink]

I have found this to be superior to the standard set-ups I was using before, (for 20 years or so) ; particularly for inner tracks . I have felt no need to go back :-

http://www.vacuumstate.com/fileupload/GuruSetUp.pdf
http://www.vacuumstate.com/fileupload/Guru_protractor.pdf

Allen was one of the most experienced and knowledgeable vinyl users.

[Marco]

An interesting and informative link - cheers, Mark. I particularly like the way he describes how to adjust anti-skate, which is a damn sight more effective than that gained from the use of any test disc! :thumbsup:

Marco.

[Firebottle]

+1 for the Vacuumstate approach, it's excellent.

[karma67]

this is interesting regarding the guru protractor, http://www.vinylengine.com/guru-protractor-analysed.shtml
has anyone gone from the standard alignment and used this one?

[NRG]

Sorry Mark the "Guru" :roll eyes: protractor gets a big fat thumbs down from me. Spent a couple of hours messing with it on my Logic Gemini and Datum S arm (Rega Geometry) today. Had a good listening session and couldn't put my finger on what was wrong, something was not quite right in the treble, didn't sound crisp and defined as before, sibilance at the end of the record seemed worse. I messed about with arm height, loading and bias but was still not happy.

So I dug out my old Townshend protractor to check on the tracking distortion and found this:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/Logic_Gemini/676a2340-3d0e-4222-a587-fbd23506a4d7.jpg

OK its as best as I can do visually so the figures are not absolute but when compared to the 'Conrad' generated one the "Guru" setting is far worse especially at the end of the record. Needless to say I've gone back to the original setup and harmony has been restored!

[blake]

Sorry Mark the "Guru" :roll eyes: protractor gets a big fat thumbs down from me. Spent a couple of hours messing with it on my Logic Gemini and Datum S arm (Rega Geometry) today. Had a good listening session and couldn't put my finger on what was wrong, something was not quite right in the treble, didn't sound crisp and defined as before, sibilance at the end of the record seemed worse. I messed about with arm height, loading and bias but was still not happy.

So I dug out my old Townshend protractor to check on the tracking distortion and found this:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/Logic_Gemini/676a2340-3d0e-4222-a587-fbd23506a4d7.jpg

OK its as best as I can do visually so the figures are not absolute but when compared to the 'Conrad' generated one the "Guru" setting is far worse especially at the end of the record. Needless to say I've gone back to the original setup and harmony has been restored!

Agreed. It's a wacky alignment. Has some benefits if you have a lot of records with virtually no deadwax (the inner null point is around 6 mm from the edge of the label on a typical record-most records have no information there) but at the expense of about twice the distortion across 90% of the record compared to Baerwald.

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=vinyl&n=1091756&highlight=guru+protractor&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3FForumSelect%3DSel ected%26searchtext%3Dtl404%26SelectForummagnequest %3Dmagnequest

[Desmo]

Agreed. It's a wacky alignment. Has some benefits if you have a lot of records with virtually no deadwax (the inner null point is around 6 mm from the edge of the label on a typical record-most records have no information there) but at the expense of about twice the distortion across 90% of the record compared to Baerwald.

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=vinyl&n=1091756&highlight=guru+protractor&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3FForumSelect%3DSel ected%26searchtext%3Dtl404%26SelectForummagnequest %3Dmagnequest

Thanks guys this is all very helpful, I've always stuck with Baerwald and been happy with it, but the Guru settings looked interesting. I think I'll leave things alone and just enjoy the music! :-)

[karma67]

good choice :)

[HackneyRF]

Thanks guys this is all very helpful, I've always stuck with Baerwald and been happy with it, but the Guru settings looked interesting. I'll leave things alone and just enjoy the music! :-)

Amen to that! 😉

[IslandPink]

Well I have no explanation for why you got completely different results to me, but the problems you describe are exactly the ones I found to be 'fixed' by the Allen Wright( 's mate in Australia ) system. This was with a Mayware formula IV and Denon 103R . One significant thing I noticed was the antiskate setting was a lot lower.

[struth]

My one doesn't bother with all that thankfully :D it seems to work as Ive never had a problem

[walpurgis]

There seems to be a lot of angst and maybe even obsession over cartridge alignment. I have several protractors, but always use a simple one cut out of HFN about forty years ago and never had problems.

Same goes for downforce and anti-skating. I just start around the manufacturer's recommendations and play it by ear. It's a waste of time struggling to get to within a fraction of a gram of recommendations.

[Marco]

Ditto! "Angst", yup, that just about covers it... The ratio of 'fannying about', to listening to music, is way out of sync! ;)

Marco.

[NRG]

Well I have no explanation for why you got completely different results to me, but the problems you describe are exactly the ones I found to be 'fixed' by the Allen Wright( 's mate in Australia ) system. This was with a Mayware formula IV and Denon 103R . One significant thing I noticed was the antiskate setting was a lot lower.

Maybe because the 103r has a spherical tip Mark so is less sensitive to setup. I think any Fine Line stylus though needs very carefull setup, that's what I've found so far certainly with the AT33PTG I'm using.....

Agree about the anti skate!

[walpurgis]

I think any Fine Line stylus though needs very carefull setup, that's what I've found so far certainly with the AT33PTG I'm using....

My ZYXs and Goldring Eroica LX don't cause me any set up bother and they're line contact carts. The only thing I pay a little more attention to is the VTA.

[blake]

Well I have no explanation for why you got completely different results to me, but the problems you describe are exactly the ones I found to be 'fixed' by the Allen Wright( 's mate in Australia ) system. This was with a Mayware formula IV and Denon 103R . One significant thing I noticed was the antiskate setting was a lot lower.

I am glad it worked for you although the high distortion numbers on that alignment are over the top when compared to any of the big 3 alignments.

The problems may well have originated as a result of sticking a 103R on an ultra low mass (4.5 gram!) unipivot tonearm. It is a bit of an oddball combination.

[walpurgis]

The problems may well have originated as a result of sticking a 103R on an ultra low mass (4.5 gram!) unipivot tonearm. It is a bit of an oddball combination.

Assuming the fluid damping was used correctly, the low mass of the Mayware should not be an issue with lowish compliance MCs. My low mass Mission 774 offers similar and sounds superb with every lower compliance MC (and Decca) I've tried.

[IslandPink]

The problems may well have originated as a result of sticking a 103R on an ultra low mass (4.5 gram!) unipivot tonearm. It is a bit of an oddball combination.

I'm ahead of you on this one ! - the Mayware is somewhat modified with ~10g lead headshell weighting and an extra counterweight . Agreed 103R would work quite poorly with the standard arm.