New cantilever????????

[Floyddroid]

a couple of years ago i snapped the cantilever off my Lyra Delos cartridge. As you can well imagine i was gutted. Anyhow, i shoved it in a box and forgot about it. Today i decided to see how much it would be to have a ne cantilever/tip put on so i contacted North West Analogue. I nearly pooped me kaki catchers when i was quoted £700. I could buy a brand new one for £825. WTF? Is it me just being tight or old fashioned or does that not represent good vfm?:scratch:

[southall-1998]

Sounds a bit rip-off!!

Have you tried that other place based in Surrey?

S.

[Floyddroid]

Sounds a bit rip-off!!

Have you tried that other place based in Surrey?

S.

What do they call them Shane?

[walpurgis]

Get onto 'Cool Gales'. They take obsolete or broken Lyras in P/X against new ones at discounts. Could be worth looking into. Decent dealer too, I bought one of my ZYXs there and they were very friendly to deal with.

http://www.coolgales.com/analogue-hi-fi-equipment/stylii-mc-exchange/lyra-cartridges-upgrades

[YNWaN]

Goldring did a really fantastic job of fitting a top Gyger stylus and ruby cantilever to one of my Troikas, that cost £350. £700 soundz 'excessive'.

[Floyddroid]

Goldring did a really fantastic job of fitting a top Gyger stylus and ruby cantilever to one of my Troikas, that cost £350. £700 soundz 'excessive'.

Got any contact numbers or email links Mark?

[Floyddroid]

Given the cost, time and hassle involved would It be better just to buy a brand new Denon DL103 R ?

[Audio Al]

Here you go

http://www.goldring.co.uk/cartridge-repair.htm

:santa:

[Ali Tait]

Given the cost, time and hassle involved would It be better just to buy a brand new Denon DL103 R ?

If you have a broken one lying about, I've just been listening to a VDH retipped one. More than a new one, but a boron cantilever and VDH tip are fitted, and it bettered a standard 103r in my system. Cost is £432 in total. Has even more boogie factor, better bass(!) and a smoother treble.

[hifi_dave]

a couple of years ago i snapped the cantilever off my Lyra Delos cartridge. As you can well imagine i was gutted. Anyhow, i shoved it in a box and forgot about it. Today i decided to see how much it would be to have a ne cantilever/tip put on so i contacted North West Analogue. I nearly pooped me kaki catchers when i was quoted £700. I could buy a brand new one for £825. WTF? Is it me just being tight or old fashioned or does that not represent good vfm?:scratch:

If you enjoy the many fine qualities of the Delos, why not p/x against a new one for a substantial saving ?

You know what you will be getting with no guessing about the quality of this or that cantilever and stylus.

[blake]

a couple of years ago i snapped the cantilever off my Lyra Delos cartridge. As you can well imagine i was gutted. Anyhow, i shoved it in a box and forgot about it. Today i decided to see how much it would be to have a ne cantilever/tip put on so i contacted North West Analogue. I nearly pooped me kaki catchers when i was quoted £700. I could buy a brand new one for £825. WTF? Is it me just being tight or old fashioned or does that not represent good vfm?:scratch:


Contact Andy Kim at:

http://www.phonocartridgeretipping.com/contact.html

His work is impeccable and for around $400 U.S. or 270 GBP he will install a new boron cantilever with microridge stylus (very similar to or quite possibly exactly what was originally on the Delos) and will also rebuild the suspension if necessary in that price.

I've had Peter Ledermaan at Soundsmith do a number of cartridges with ruby cantilevers for a little bit less than this with no suspension work (he doesn't do it) but am currently running an Ortofon MC 20 Super that I had Andy totally rebuild and retip with the boron/microridge mentioned above and it was a substantial improvement over the aluminum cantilever and FG that was originally on the cartridge. I would highly recommend him.

Turnaround time will be about 3-4 weeks.

[sq225917]

Holy shit £700, ha ha ha, he flatters himself at those prices. Anyone would think he'd been trained at the world's best cart manufacturers. Has Dom ever received formal training?

[stevied]

Holy shit £700, ha ha ha, he flatters himself at those prices. Anyone would think he'd been trained at the world's best cart manufacturers. Has Dom ever received formal training?

Must admit his prices are hard to believe sometimes!

[Marco]

Holy shit £700, ha ha ha, he flatters himself at those prices. Anyone would think he'd been trained at the world's best cart manufacturers. Has Dom ever received formal training?

Well...

Did Yoshiaki Sugano go to night school, to learn how to design cartridges? Where was he 'formally taught'? ;)

Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Holy shit £700, ha ha ha, he flatters himself at those prices. Anyone would think he'd been trained at the world's best cart manufacturers. Has Dom ever received formal training?

It's ok to quote those prices if you don't want any business, that's his business model.

[oldius]

Expert stylus will fit a sapphire cantilever with paratrace tip for about £350; they're very good too.

It's not that long ago that dom quoted me £250 for a retip with a fritz geiger s tip; the lesser geiger tips were all cheaper.

[sq225917]

I wonder what's technically more difficult, removing and fitting a stylus or just replacing a canti with stylus ready fitted.

Marco, there was a long piece in one of the mags several years ago covering Sugano San's cartridge apprenticeship, he did study under another maker before making his own.

David at Goldring was similarly trained, Expert Stylus main business is diamond cutters for fibre optical cables.

Maybe expecting premium prices to equate to premium training and experience doesn't match up in the hifi world...

[walpurgis]

I don't recall anybody complaining about Dom's work. As far as I'm aware it's very good. The photo's I've seen show nice looking jobs. He did an inspection and clean on one of my ZYXs a while back and charged me £60 which was certainly cheaper than some would charge.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I don't recall anybody complaining about Dom's work. As far as I'm aware it's very good. The photo's I've seen show nice looking jobs. He did an inspection and clean on one of my ZYXs a while back and charged me £60 which was certainly cheaper than some would charge.

Nobodies complaining about his work, just the cost.

[dmckean]

I wonder what's technically more difficult, removing and fitting a stylus or just replacing a canti with stylus ready fitted.


It's much, much easier just to replace the whole canti and it will always be more expensive to retip your existing one.

[Marco]

Marco, there was a long piece in one of the mags several years ago covering Sugano San's cartridge apprenticeship, he did study under another maker before making his own.


Indeed, but that was simply a case of gaining some practical experience in his field of expertise - not quite the same as 'formal training', which suggests the attainment of a relevant academic qualification before one is considered as competent.

Artisans, such as Sugano-San, have a natural aptitude or God-given skill for performing certain tasks, which is very difficult, or impossible, to be formally taught. Who taught Picasso how to paint, or Pavarotti how to sing? You've either 'got it' in the first place, or you haven't :)

Marco.

[walpurgis]

It's much, much easier just to replace the whole canti and it will always be more expensive to retip your existing one.

Can that be right?

With an aluminium cantilever for instance, unless the new cantilever is shanked or sleeved onto part of the old tube, which is undesirable. The only way to do this is to remove the coil assembly and drill out the remains of the old tube for the fitment of the new cantilever. Quite a lot of work. Presumably grinding off the old diamond and bonding a new tip in place instead would be simpler.

In the case of the Delos the cantilever is a Boron rod carrying a top quality Japanese line contact diamond tip. I assume a replacement job would entail provision of a new coil assembly too. After all, how would you remove a piece of broken Boron cantilever from the existing tiny coil assembly without damaging it? There's also the likelihood that an impact bad enough to break the Boron rod, will have trashed the coils. Perhaps that could explain the £700 quote.

[YNWaN]

It doesn't in my book as I know Goldring also rewind the coils. £700 is, by far, the most I have ever heard quoted for a stylus and cantilever.

[walpurgis]

£700 is, by far, the most I have ever heard quoted for a stylus and cantilever.

Yes. It's a lot Mark. Perhaps if we saw a copy of the quote, there could be a clue as to why? Assuming this figure is correct of course.

[dmckean]

Can that be right?

With an aluminium cantilever for instance, unless the new cantilever is shanked or sleeved onto part of the old tube, which is undesirable. The only way to do this is to remove the coil assembly and drill out the remains of the old tube for the fitment of the new cantilever. Quite a lot of work. Presumably grinding off the old diamond and bonding a new tip in place instead would be simpler.

The new cantilevers come with the diamonds already attached. Grinding off the old and bonding a new tip is tedious work and it's very, very easy to damage the cantilever in the process, it's much easier to tear the cart apart and mount a new one.

[blake]

Can that be right?

With an aluminium cantilever for instance, unless the new cantilever is shanked or sleeved onto part of the old tube, which is undesirable. The only way to do this is to remove the coil assembly and drill out the remains of the old tube for the fitment of the new cantilever. Quite a lot of work. Presumably grinding off the old diamond and bonding a new tip in place instead would be simpler.

In the case of the Delos the cantilever is a Boron rod carrying a top quality Japanese line contact diamond tip. I assume a replacement job would entail provision of a new coil assembly too. After all, how would you remove a piece of broken Boron cantilever from the existing tiny coil assembly without damaging it? There's also the likelihood that an impact bad enough to break the Boron rod, will have trashed the coils. Perhaps that could explain the £700 quote.

As dmckean has pointed out it's much easier for cartridge repair services to replace the entire cantilever/stylus assembly than to graft a new stylus onto an existing cantilever and the price on this work is reflected by the prices for both repairs (higher to graft a new stylus onto existing cantilever).

Having done 4 different cartridges over the years I have no problem with a new cantilever being attached to part of the old tube; in every case I've experienced a grossly improved cartridge with this type of repair although I must admit that I believe I've improved both the cantilever material and stylus profile on all 4 repairs.

Soundsmith and Phonocartridge Retipping definitely do the vast majority of their repairs/retips in this fashion and it would certainly appear from online photos that Expert Stylus does work in this manner as well, although all 3 will definitely graft onto an existing cantilever at a higher price. My experience is that there is no need to view it as "undesirable" if it is done properly.

I would say it would be rare that coils would be damaged by a broken cantilever, although it could be possible. Only one of the retips I've done involved coil work and it was highly unlikely IMO that was a result of any impact to the cantilever. Even with the replacement of the entire coil, an entire rebuild of the suspension and a new very high quality boron cantilever with microridge stylus (very likely Namiki which Lyra uses on the Delos), the full repair came in at 370 GBP at current exchange rates and resulted in a vastly improved cartridge.

As I pointed out earlier, if the coil work is not necessary, as in most cases, the job can be very well done for well under 300 GBP.

[Wakefield Turntables]

This argument could rumble on and on. Ortofon charge £750 for a full rebuild of my Ortofon Cadenza black, which, when new costs £1750. Now am I going to send my prized cartridge to a guy that's made a hobby into a business and probably learned as he's gone along :no:or do I send my cartridge to a company with a near 100 years existance and many decades in audio R&D and decades in cartridge repair and design? :exactly:.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Indeed, but that was simply a case of gaining some practical experience in his field of expertise - not quite the same as 'formal training', which suggests the attainment of a relevant academic qualification before one is considered as competent.

Artisans, such as Sugano-San, have a natural aptitude or God-given skill for performing certain tasks, which is very difficult, or impossible, to be formally taught. Who taught Picasso how to paint, or Pavarotti how to sing? You've either 'got it' in the first place, or you haven't :)

Marco.

Hmmm, how's Dom learned his trade? Could it be via learning of the net, reading journal articles, or studying others work? It all boils down to the same point. Someone has already written the knowledge down for it to be passed on to others so that the skills can continue, in this instance the repair work of cartridges. This is gained practical experience from second hand knowledge and is not the same as learning from one who has first hand EXPERIENCE. You can read books all you like but experience and intuition play a much greater part in the development of an individual skill and this can only be gained from others who have performed said similar skills and can teach others how to avoid errors. There is no "academic" qualification, is called learning on the job, just like an apprentice. Try peforming surgery without formal training, see how far that gets you :rolleyes:. The word "Artisan" is bumph and used by smart execs to flog cartridges. Sugano-San had an aptidude for making carts, it's as simple as that he hit upon his niche, exploited it and made a business from it.

[struth]

Some tbings you can learn by trial and error and others from a book but there is no experience like the hands on type. Someone showing you initially how you do it and then holding your hand initially is the best way to gain the confidence to then do it your way

[Wakefield Turntables]

Some tbings you can learn by trial and error and others from a book but there is no experience like the hands on type. Someone showing you initially how you do it and then holding your hand initially is the best way to gain the confidence to then do it your way


:yesbruv:

[Marco]

Someone has already written the knowledge down for it to be passed on to others so that the skills can continue, in this instance the repair work of cartridges. This is gained practical experience from second hand knowledge and is not the same as learning from one who has first hand EXPERIENCE. You can read books all you like but experience and intuition play a much greater part in the development of an individual skill and this can only be gained from others who have performed said similar skills and can teach others how to avoid errors. There is no "academic" qualification, is called learning on the job, just like an apprentice. Try peforming surgery without formal training, see how far that gets you :rolleyes:. The word "Artisan" is bumph and used by smart execs to flog cartridges. Sugano-San had an aptidude for making carts, it's as simple as that he hit upon his niche, exploited it and made a business from it.

I think we'll have to (quite strongly) agree to disagree on that one, Andy.

When it comes to professions involving the practice of an art form, there's very little you can learn from textbooks. You certainly can't apply the same rules there, as you would to a scientific profession, such as surgery. Art is different, as it doesn't conform to the binary rules of academia, and performing cartridge design or repair (especially the former) to a professional standard, definitely involves the applying of more art than science.

Another example would be the designing of musical instruments. Speak to someone, for example, who makes violin cases, and ask them how much of their expertise/artistic talent was gained from reading text books or 'formal training'. It's largely a skill you are born with, which involves a degree of judicious judgement that simply can't be taught, and those people are genuine artisans and experts in their field. I could be 'taught' by such an expert till I was blue in the face, but there's no way I'd be able to do what they do, as I don't possess the required skills.

The discipline involved with cartridge design is very similar to that involved in the making of musical instruments, as you have to have an ear for it (and the tuning/voicing of the final result) - and that's simply an ability you're either born with or not. It's not something that can easily be analysed or quantified by science.

I can't comment on the £700 that was quoted by Dom for said cartridge repair, but knowing him there would've been a good reason for arriving at that figure, as he's a perfectionist, so very much of the school of 'do it right or not at all', with no cutting corners. That's not to say, of course, that others mentioned, who would carry out the work for less, wouldn't do just as good a job, but Dom will have quoted a price based on what he considered was appropriate to make the job viable for him.

I also think that others and you are vastly underrating his skills in this area, as anyone who can design a moving-coil cartridge from scratch, as he did with the DH1, is certainly capable of repairing a broken cantilever, or whatever! ;)

If you read my review below (and the rest of this thread), you will see how impressed I was with the DH1, which remains as one of the finest sounding MC designs I've ever had the pleasure of listening to: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?30300-Gathering-at-NWA&p=523059#post523059

Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I think we'll have to (quite strongly) agree to disagree on that one, Andy.

When it comes to professions involving the practice of an art form, there's very little you can learn from textbooks. You certainly can't apply the same rules there, as you would to a scientific profession, such as surgery. Art is different, as it doesn't conform to the binary rules of academia, and performing cartridge design or repair (especially the former) to a professional standard, definitely involves the applying of more art than science.

Another example would be the designing of musical instruments. Speak to someone, for example, who makes violin cases, and ask them how much of their expertise/artistic talent was gained from reading text books or 'formal training'. It's largely a skill you are born with, which involves a degree of judicious judgement that simply can't be taught, and those people are genuine artisans and experts in their field. I could be 'taught' by such an expert till I was blue in the face, but there's no way I'd be able to do what they do, as I don't possess the required skills.

The discipline involved with cartridge design is very similar to that involved in the making of musical instruments, as you have to have an ear for it (and the tuning/voicing of the final result) - and that's simply an ability you're either born with or not. It's not something that can easily be analysed or quantified by science.

I can't comment on the £700 that was quoted by Dom for said cartridge repair, but knowing him there would've been a good reason for arriving at that figure, as he's a perfectionist, so very much of the school of 'do it right or not at all', with no cutting corners. That's not to say, of course, that others mentioned, who would carry out the work for less, wouldn't do just as good a job, but Dom will have quoted a price based on what he considered was appropriate to make the job viable for him.

I also think that others and you are vastly underrating his skills in this area, as anyone who can design a moving-coil cartridge from scratch, as he did with the DH1, is certainly capable of repairing a broken cantilever, or whatever! ;)

If you read my review below (and the rest of this thread), you will see how impressed I was with the DH1, which remains as one of the finest sounding MC designs I've ever had the pleasure of listening to: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?30300-Gathering-at-NWA&p=523059#post523059

Marco.

I like good debate and banter. Now we have our own opinions and thats fine, I have no issues with that. Science is Art and Art is Science, the two are very much interlinked. I'm merely introducing the idea that sometimes an individual has to use intuition to get a result, i.e. using taught and gained knowledge alongside experience. Now whats so different to an "artist" using the same skills in producing the piece of art they want, tuning a speaker, or making a musical instrument?

[sq225917]

Marco are you seriously implying cartridge rebuilding is more art than science? I think the word you are looking for is 'luck'. I don't want a cart repaired by an 'artisan' I want it fixed by someone with a steady hand and the ability to rebuild my cart to the original manufacturers spec, that means measured parts and measured performance.

I doubt there's any art in it beyond the feel required not to snap windings. Coil winding, alignment. Calculation of resonant frequency and moving mass is all science.

If you can't measure it, then it's art.

[Marco]

Marco are you seriously implying cartridge rebuilding is more art than science? I think the word you are looking for is 'luck'.


Like any other piece of hi-fi equipment, cartridges, especially bespoke-made 'exotic' moving coils, have to be listened to (extensively), as well as measured - and that's where the 'art' comes in.

Dom told me that his DH1 was designed by approximately 10% measurement and 90% listening/'tuning by ear' (the art part). Having been blown away by how it sounds, (and I'm not easily so impressed), I can certainly appreciate (and hear) the benefits of that approach. It sounds like no other MC cartridge I've had experience of, and is indeed a rather special thing.

That is also probably why cartridges which have simply been measured, and not also 'tuned by ear', often sound rather sterile and 'hi-fi', which pretty much sums up the majority of the output these days from Ortofon [amongst others], and why many other cartridges produced today possess that sterile and 'forensic' type of sonic signature. They just aren't musically satisfying in the way that they should be.

That's why I use an SPU! ;)


I don't want a cart repaired by an 'artisan' I want it fixed by someone with a steady hand and the ability to rebuild my cart to the original manufacturers spec, that means measured parts and measured performance.


Well, Dom does all that too, and I can certainly attest to the steadiness of his hands, as I've watched him at work, but he's also a big believer in the principle that only by listening and tuning by ear, as well as measuring, can you get a cartridge to replicate recorded music in the most lifelike and believable way. That's certainly also been my experience.

Aside from that, you're of course entitled to choose whom you want to repair or re-tip your cartridges. I'd happily give Dom the job, as I know from experience what I'd get back would likely be better than what I had originally :)

Marco.

P.S Andy, I'll get to your post later - bit busy right now!

[Marco]

I like good debate and banter. Now we have our own opinions and thats fine, I have no issues with that. Science is Art and Art is Science, the two are very much interlinked.


To a degree they are, but it's not quite that simple, otherwise there wouldn't be endless debates on forums, for example, about whether 'audio mains cables' sound different from a bog standard 'kettle lead'! ;) Therefore, clearly there are instances where art and science diverge, in terms of their ability to create something or analyse the existence of a phenomenon.

We're back to the old argument of there are certain things that ears can clearly hear but, as yet, science can't measure. And that applies, say, to the genuine audible differences between a mains lead, which has been properly designed for hi-fi purposes, and a standard 'kettle lead', as much as it does an artisan tuning the sonic presentation of cartridges by ear, and a commercial manufacturer producing them solely through measurement, in that the crucial difference, in terms of how realistically both final products reproduce recorded music, can't currently be measured.

And it's the ability of the artisan to create that difference, *musically*, which makes their products unique and special, in a way that wouldn't have been achieved by the use of science alone.


I'm merely introducing the idea that sometimes an individual has to use intuition to get a result, i.e. using taught and gained knowledge alongside experience. Now whats so different to an "artist" using the same skills in producing the piece of art they want, tuning a speaker, or making a musical instrument?

Not quite sure what you're getting at there, but I'm all for using intuition or gut instinct, learning through practical experience, and not just through reading text books or participating in formal academic training, so if you're saying the same, then on that we're in agreement.

My point was that such formal training, relating to the production of any piece of equipment, which is designed either to play or reproduce music, only takes you so far.

The rest is about judiciously utilising the God-given talents you were born with, many of which in that respect are fundamental in allowing one to design something truly special, but currently in the field of audio, aren't recognised by science - and *that*, my friend, is the art :)

Marco.

[sq225917]

I guess my point is that id expect some formal training, in fact any would be a good start.

[Ali Tait]

It's interesting to note that it's often said of top end carts that there is sample variation in how they sound. This being the case, it would appear to suggest that there is indeed a large art component in how they are made, given that if they were made with parts that measured similarly, it would follow that they would all sound similar.

[NRG]

It's quite one thing to disagree with somebody's pricing model (if you don't like it just don't buy it, simples) but another entirely to openly deride somebody for the lack of formal training....that just come across as churlish.

The lack of formal training never stopped the late and great George Daniels from producing some of the greatest time pieces every made. Pure artistry married with clever and precise engineering and science to produce some of the most exquisite time pieces ever made.

Going further back the lack of formal training (there was none) didn't stop John Harrison from solving the Longitude problem back in the early 1700's. Incidentally the book about his achievement 'Longitude' is work seeking out....not bad for a carpenter! ;)

[Marco]

I guess my point is that id expect some formal training, in fact any would be a good start.

Why? Surely all that matters is that the job is carried out to the highest standard by a competent individual? I don't get your mania here for 'formal training'? Let the final results speak for themselves is what I say!

In that respect, Dom's work to date does precisely that :)

There are plenty of folk around doing jobs which they've been formally trained in, but still manage to royally fuck it up! ;)

Marco.

[Marco]

The lack of formal training never stopped the late and great George Daniels from producing some of the greatest time pieces every made. Pure artistry married with clever and precise engineering and science to produce some of the most exquisite time pieces ever made.

Going further back the lack of formal training (there was none) didn't stop John Harrison from solving the Longitude problem back in the early 1700's. Incidentally the book about his achievement 'Longitude' is work seeking out....not bad for a carpenter! ;)

Excellent points, well made, Neal. Long live the self-taught inventors, artisans and free-thinkers of this world! :exactly:

Marco.

[struth]

I guess it depends on someones idea of formel training..I dont regard going to school or uni as formal training per say. Just that i usually find someone who can take a person under their wing and give them the benefit of their hands on knowledge and experience. That way the person has a basis then to go show his artistic bent. Cant speak for others but thats my take on it. It is of course possible to learn without that but i am more comfortable in doing something myself or have others do a task for me if an expert has at least shown the person the ropes

[walpurgis]

Since when is it mandatory that a person offering this service should have formal 'qualifications'? In this case, what is on offer is very specialised and I assume there is no qualification standard to be met. Just skills to be gained and reputations to be built. Seems to me there has been an element of 'sour grapes', leading to a negative approach. Judgements being offered, presumably from people who are also not qualified in the subject.

[Marco]

Absolutely, Grant. I completely agree that it's always best when an expert shows you the ropes, but the point is you don't always need a formal academic qualification to indicate that you're competent to do what you do. For me, thinking otherwise smacks of sheer intellectual snobbery!

Some of the most accomplished audio designers I know were largely self-taught (after receiving a little guidance from someone experienced), and possessed no formal qualifications that I'm aware of. Here's a pertinent example of a very capable audio designer, whose natural flair and passion for building amplifiers was the main reason for his success (we recently auctioned one of his amps for charity): http://www.retrosellers.com/features577.htm

Also, as far as I know, Anthony (Matthews) learned how to build amplifiers from his father, who used to repair old radios, and got to where he is now through having a natural aptitude for electronics, but no 'formal training', as such. That hasn't stopped him from building some of the finest equipment I've heard. There are bound to plenty of others like them. How did Glenn Croft, I wonder, get to where he is now?

The point is, in the field of audio design, you don't need to have formal (paper) qualifications coming out of your arse, to be any good at what you do!! ;)

Marco.

[Marco]

Since when is it mandatory that a person offering this service should have formal 'qualifications'? In this case, what is on offer is very specialised and I assume there is no qualification standard to be met. Just skills to be gained and reputations to be built. Seems to me there has been an element of 'sour grapes', leading to a negative approach.

Precisely (on all counts). For some reason, Dom seems to get unfairly targeted by the sour grapes brigade....

Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hmmm. The debate has moved on from last night.

[Marco]

Nice grapes... Are they Merlot or Cabernet Sauvignon? ;)

Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Nice grapes... Are they Merlot or Cabernet Sauvignon? ;)

Marco.

Not sure as my palette is about as delicate as a sledge hammer, nice you can see the humour behind the new Avatar!

[Marco]

Lol - I'm always up for a giggle! :D

Marco.

[sq225917]

Why would anyone in this thread have sour grapes, I don't think any of us are budding cartridge repairmen. I think I'm perfectly entitled to an opinion on the subject, I've seen the many retip pictures just as you all have, I've heard carts he's repaired. Based on that exposure I wouldn't consider using him to work on my cart. He's free to charge whatever he likes.

[walpurgis]

I'm perfectly entitled to an opinion.

Of course you are. :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Geoff, love the Avatar! Very funny (meant in a nice way of course). ;)

[walpurgis]

Geoff, love the Avatar! Very funny (meant in a nice way of course). ;)

I dare say a bit of leg pulling does no harm. Although there may be a few who have trouble organising a sense of humour. ;)

[Wakefield Turntables]

I dare say a bit of leg pulling does no harm. Although there may be a few who have trouble organising a sense of humour. ;)

Can you really take this hobby too seriously?

[walpurgis]

Can you really take this hobby too seriously?

Of course. And some probably do. But all that matters is having an opinion. It doesn't have to be right. :)

[Floyddroid]

I seem to have unintentionally opened a rare old can of worms here. Once again many differing views on this matter. Dom's reputation is without doubt unquestionable and my original point was that of diminishing returns. For another £125 I could have a brand new cartridge even less trading in my current cartridge body.
Skill and qualifications were never an issue with me as I know many tradesman and university graduates that possess all the skills of a warthog. Such skills akin to a watchmaker are indeed as much an art as they are a technical proficiency and in my humble opinion transcend formal qualification.
My take on all of this as someone who at the moment finds them unsure of the outcome is to be cautious. I'm afraid I'd does come down to price. So, my plan is to buy a Denon DL103R in the short term and to send me Lyra to the states for a new cantilever in the long term. Thanks for all your views on the matter.