View Full Version : Utter beginners guide to digital music set up needed please !
steveinspain
15-10-2009, 20:38
So, I have a pc with lots of music stored in WAV format. I am soon to have a Caiman DAC. I also have a stereo.
I have a really bad internet connection, making listening to or downloading online music difficult.
I want to listen to the music on my pc via the stereo, and know nothing about squeezeboxes and the like.
What do I need and how do I set it all up ?
Is there some sort of guide, or can anyone help me out here ?
I do not need music all over the house, as I have a volume control and no neighbours to worry about but some sort of random play feature would be wonderful (my iRiver HP40 is wonderful for that when travelling) so can anyone tell me, in basic terms what does what, and why buy this or that.
Anyone willing to put in the time it takes to educate one as far behind the times as I am ?
The Grand Wazoo
15-10-2009, 20:51
Good post, Steve. Someone needs to write the definitive guide to this so it can go into the library.
steveinspain
15-10-2009, 21:22
Lordy - praise indeed from the man who has made me chuckle with his forum name description - having had the album way back when I had hair growing all over my head and chin, I never got the meaning of the title !
Lets hope someone can come up with some basic explaination of what and why - I certainly need the help !
The Grand Wazoo
15-10-2009, 21:57
Haha, yes a Wazoo is actually an arse!!
The computer audio thing is certainly a must have item for the forum & so are lots of other 'back to basics' items, but Nick, Barry & I can't do 'em all!!
This is exactly what some of us requested some time ago.
The problem is............ that it will be quite a commitment in terms of time, for someone to actually do this thoroughly.
Which, i suppose is the reason nobody ever did it.
steve dixon
15-10-2009, 22:18
what do you need?
well it sounds like you have everything, you just need to connect it up.
you don't mention a home network so i'll skip that bit for now.
1. put the computer somewhere near your amplifier.
2. plug a usb lead into the pc and put the other end into the caimen dac.
3. connect the dac to your amp with two regular phono leads into the aux input on the back of the amp.
4. switch on the pc, dac, and amp.
5. select the usb option on the dac.
6. select the aux on the amp
7. open your player of choice, if you don't have one download itunes for windows.
8. itunes will ask if you want it to search for music, click yes.
9. adjust the volume slider, upper left, to about halfway.
10. adjust the amp volume to about 25% usually about the 9 o-clock posn.
11. select the album you want and click play.
12. you can now adjust either itunes or amp volume till your happy.
13. sit back and enjoy.
the only problem you may have could be between step 6 and step 7 where you may have to alter the sound output settings on the computer to enable usb output, but usually it's automatically done by the computer, which is described as 'universal plug and play'.
i hope this helps and i haven't missed anything critical.
good luck
steve
2. plug a usb lead into the pc and put the other end into the caimen dac.
This needs to be an "A-B" USB lead - the sort used to connect a printer usually - something like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-PRO-Hi-Speed-Device-Cable/dp/B000EOTDPK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=officeproduct&qid=1255646959&sr=8-3 would be ideal, IMO.
Stratmangler
15-10-2009, 23:10
Just to cloud the water a bit, what about Squeezebox, Airport, Soundbridges and what have you ? All of which are server or PC based.
You then have the wonderful decision to make of "which format do I choose to rip my CD's to" ?
I personally choose FLAC - I cannot distinguish audibly between a FLAC file and a WAV file - I do not like MP3 because I can hear difference, and the MP3 is always poorer.
Another reason for my choice of FLAC is that my Squeezebox SB3 deals with it as a native format.
If you use Linn product to steam then you need to get to grips with Twonky Media, which is, I have read (no personal experience, so I could be well off the mark) a bit of an arse to have to play with.
Dunno what Naim want to play with, but they seem to be acknowledging that physical media is the direction that they too are moving away from.
Point of my post is just that there are many ways to skin a cat, and that by the time someone reads this the information in this posting will probably be out of date.
Chris;)
Fair points Chris, but Steve already said he has lots of music stored in WAV format, or are you proposing he converts it all? If not, pretty much any player will cope.
If the PC is near enough to the amp, then from my experience, a streaming device (Soundbridge in my case) is only advantageous for a clearer display, and remote control - but depending on room/equipment layout, worth considering. (Though I also remember from other posts that for Steve, money is a bit tight (same here, bud!) and so might be best avoided?)
Personally, I ended up with Twonky Media by default - it was the only server software I could find that could cope with diverse clients such as the Soundbridge, PS3, XBox 360 and other PCs/laptops - can't say I have touched the server software since I installed it 2+ years ago, set it up with the preferences I needed and it has just got on with it since - just my experience though, others may have had issues of course.
Not having a go Chris, just my opinion/experience and by no means the only valid one - as you say, many ways to skin the proverbial kitty! ;)
The Vinyl Adventure
16-10-2009, 00:27
Ok ok, this is getting a bit mixed up
linn, with twonky is easy (from experience) certainly no harder than geting bit perfect output for a USB dac!
If your getting a caiman then you want to sort out bit perfect output from the pc (pc direct via USB into caiman)
I use foobar with aiso support (aiso being the thing that suplys the bit perfect USB output)
Does this help!I'm not really sure if I'm answering that right question
steveinspain
16-10-2009, 05:45
OK, to elaborate...
I may convert my WAV files into flac, as I believe it is possible without any sacrifice in quality, and will free up space on my hard drive.
I do have a router, my Caiman and a digital interconnect are arriving soon and I would like to be able to play music without the monitor being on, thus involving some sort of interface, and this is where struggle - the computer is also not very close to the stereo, and a remote would be good, so something hand-held with a large screen(old eyes..) - As Alex says, money is tight, but I have just splashed out for a Caiman, so might be forced to starve the kids a little longer if I needed to buy something else..
Why is a USB lead needed to connect the pc to the Caiman - isn't there a digital output on most modern pc's that bypasses the circuitry ?
Many thanks to all for taking the time to reply to this - it is so nice to have helpful friendly input on a forum compared to the dull repetition favoured by some..
StanleyB
16-10-2009, 06:34
Can anyone explain to me why it is a good idea to spend time converting files from WAV to FLAC? The notion that is saves on space escapes my humble point of view. A 1TB drive can hold more than 1000 compact discs. Taking the minuscule cost and the massive time to convert WAV ino FLAC from 1000 discs, it seems a total waste of effort to me:confused:.
Can anyone explain to me why it is a good idea to spend time converting files from WAV to FLAC? The notion that is saves on space escapes my humble point of view. A 1TB drive can hold more than 1000 compact discs. Taking the minuscule cost and the massive time to convert WAV ino FLAC from 1000 discs, it seems a total waste of effort to me:confused:.
I totally agree with you Stan, the cost of storage means it's pointless going with FLAC to save space, just as it would be daft to use disk compression software nowadays, it was smart in the late 80's but not needed now.
Some people seem to want to use FLAC for better tagging but I find CUE files provide all I need. Keep it simple, I'm sticking with WAV.
StanleyB
16-10-2009, 06:58
Some people seem to want to use FLAC for better tagging but I find CUE files provide all I need. Keep it simple, I'm sticking with WAV.
I have used TAG & RENAME (http://www.softpointer.com/tr.htm) for more than 10 years and I have had no problems with tagging WAV files. I useMedia Monkey (http://www.mediamonkey.com/) for everything else such as playback etc. And in case I can't find the track name, I use SHAZAM (http://www.shazam.com/music/web/home.html) to sort that one out.
Of course, if anyone knows better, please feel free to discredit my solution and point of view:).
With the price of storage today it does seem that FLac is a waste of time, however, it does save space at a ratio of approx 2:1 so the amount of song storage has just doubled and because you are transmitting less data it *may* ease the burden on a dodgy connection between server and streaming device....especially if that connection is wireless and the rest of the family are watching Ice Age 3 on their laptops! When they should be doing their homework ;) :lolsign:
Who asked for a definitive guide? :doh: This thread and the answers are typical and seen on other forums....it doesn't and wont exist because there are many ways to skin feline pets... :)
With the price of storage today it does seem that FLac is a waste of time, however, it does save space at a ratio of approx 2:1 so the amount of song storage has just doubled and because you are transmitting less data it *may* ease the burden on a dodgy connection between server and streaming device....especially if that connection is wireless and the rest of the family are watching Ice Age 3 on their laptops! When they should be doing their homework ;) :lolsign:
When I've played with FLAC I've never managed 2:1 compression, more like 3:2. Dump those dodgy wireless connections, leave them for the kids or get a newer faster wireless connection and high gain aerial. Same argument as storage really. I spend so much time on a VPN which means that a wireless connection is a liability for me. Still horses for course as they say.
YOu can set the compression ratio on FLAC Clive, I get apporx 2:1....not all the time though. I do use a wired connection in my main system but posted about wirless as an example of where a lower data load may help.... :)
steve dixon
16-10-2009, 08:11
the o.p. does mention that his internet connection is poor, and makes no mention of a home network being in place. with this in mind i described what i think is the simplest method to get at his music IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES.
yes i know about remote, squeezebox, linn etc etc, but all are network dependent, and all the optional settings/set up parameters a network entails.
for a BEGINNER I would recommend adhering to the KISS principal.
unfortunately a computer cannot be used 'headless' without a network, i think that initially the o.p should get up and running, then explore the various bells and whistles later on.
cheers
steve
Peter Galbavy
16-10-2009, 08:20
Encoding to FLAC buys me three things over WAV:
1. Tagging. There is no established, widly implemented standard for tagging WAV files. It "works" but not as well as FLAC, which uses ogg-defined metadata and standards.
2. Bandwidth. I can make my music library available to myself whereever I am and I can just about download/upload it over my DSL line at roughly realtime. WAV would take at least x2 in time.
3. Space/backups. Taking backups takes twice as long and twice the space. Compression is good, even if storage is cheap.
Encoding to FLAC buys me three things over WAV:
1. Tagging. There is no established, widly implemented standard for tagging WAV files. It "works" but not as well as FLAC, which uses ogg-defined metadata and standards.
2. Bandwidth. I can make my music library available to myself whereever I am and I can just about download/upload it over my DSL line at roughly realtime. WAV would take at least x2 in time.
3. Space/backups. Taking backups takes twice as long and twice the space.
Compression is good, even if storage is cheap.
Tagging - more standard with FLAC but it's hardly ubiquitous but I'm really not too bothered about this, others will be I suppose.
Bandwidth- how can WAV take at least x2 time to transmit when it's only around 1/3rd larger?
Space / Backups - again not twice as long.....ok, about 1/3 longer. Do you mostly do incremental or full backups, do you watch the backups or leave them to run?
OK, to elaborate...
I may convert my WAV files into flac, as I believe it is possible without any sacrifice in quality, and will free up space on my hard drive.
I do have a router, my Caiman and a digital interconnect are arriving soon and I would like to be able to play music without the monitor being on, thus involving some sort of interface, and this is where struggle - the computer is also not very close to the stereo, and a remote would be good, so something hand-held with a large screen(old eyes..) - As Alex says, money is tight, but I have just splashed out for a Caiman, so might be forced to starve the kids a little longer if I needed to buy something else..
Why is a USB lead needed to connect the pc to the Caiman - isn't there a digital output on most modern pc's that bypasses the circuitry ?
Many thanks to all for taking the time to reply to this - it is so nice to have helpful friendly input on a forum compared to the dull repetition favoured by some..
Sorry Steve - I think we probably assumed you don't have a coax or optical output on your PC/Soundcard - IME a lot don't and you have no choiuce but to go USB, or, you might need the other inputs for other devices such as Playstation, DVD etc. So yes, if you have the input spare, I believe the preferred order for quality is Coax, Optical, USB.
The Vinyl Adventure
16-10-2009, 09:52
steve
i have dug out an old thread for you (sorry it took a while to find it was from a good while ago)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2373
take particular note of snowflakes reponse .. as this is the route i took .. i find usb conection perfectly adiquate
steveinspain
16-10-2009, 13:32
Many thanks for so many replies !
I never expected a definitive guide, but was hoping for some sort of a beginners guide, which I seem to be getting!
I don't really know what a squeezebox or any of the other things are, or what they do, and why one would be good to own. Converting from WAV to flac I believe isn't too hard using dBpoweramp, )which I have) and I think (not tried it, but seem to remember) it is possible to batch convert should space be an issue. I do have about 2500 - 3000 cd's, so freeing up some space might not be a bad thing.
Clearly, I am way behind the times in this.
Steve Dixon gave me the most simple and straight forward answer, and I didn't mention that I have a router, as I didn't know it was relevant. My internet connection is slow and flakey, meaning downloading anything is out. What he says does sound like very sound advice, but I would like to know more so that I can understand and later avoid any mistakes, unlike my normal way of doing things.
I also don't really know what a server is, but do have most of an old pc that could be used if it were of use..
Just off to look at the link posted by Hamish, then to see if I can work out what a squeezebox does..
The Vinyl Adventure
16-10-2009, 14:20
a server is the thing that supplys the music to a streaming device
thik of it like this
the computer is just the storage
the server (a bit of softwere) is the thing that librarys the media (music) info
the media streaming device (squeezebox, linn ds etc) is the thing that sends the music to your caiman
clear as mud?
Stratmangler
16-10-2009, 17:17
Just off to look at the link posted by Hamish, then to see if I can work out what a squeezebox does..
Hi Steve
You can see the Squeezebox thing here (http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/products/squeezebox-classic.html#tab1) - run through the page tabs and things should hopefully become clearer.
Chris:)
steveinspain
16-10-2009, 19:11
Thanks Chris - taking a look right now..!
YOu can set the compression ratio on FLAC Clive, I get apporx 2:1....not all the time though. I do use a wired connection in my main system but posted about wirless as an example of where a lower data load may help.... :)
Neal, I'd missed your post, thanks putting me right on FLAC and the ability to set compression, I hadn't looked into this deeply enough!
Soundhaspriority
19-10-2009, 17:37
For those who want a cheap Squeezebox kind of system, where sound quality matters less than the fact that your stereo is in another room, one solution I came up with for a friend is to get a small USB FM transmitter, they're plenty cheap, which connects to the PC and outputs a signal to any FM radio, allow you to play anything on the PC, but output to any radio.
So, I have a pc with lots of music stored in WAV format. I am soon to have a Caiman DAC. I also have a stereo.
I have a really bad internet connection, making listening to or downloading online music difficult.
I want to listen to the music on my pc via the stereo, and know nothing about squeezeboxes and the like.
What do I need and how do I set it all up ?
Is there some sort of guide, or can anyone help me out here ?
I do not need music all over the house, as I have a volume control and no neighbours to worry about but some sort of random play feature would be wonderful (my iRiver HP40 is wonderful for that when travelling) so can anyone tell me, in basic terms what does what, and why buy this or that.
Anyone willing to put in the time it takes to educate one as far behind the times as I am ?
The Grand Wazoo
17-09-2012, 21:24
From The Grave
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