What's best FM tuner to buy ?

[Michael loves music]

I think I can improve on my old Nad 4225 tuner what's the best tuner to buy my budget is up to £100 I like radio 2 local radio etc Thankyou for your help I look on eBay regular

[Arkless Electronics]

Hitachi FT5500 and the MkII version take some beating for the price... Many of the top of the range Japanese tuners from the late 70's and early 80's were very good but are going up in price. NAD tuners from higher in the range with the "Schotz" circuitry were well thought of also. If you fancy going vintage British I have a Sugden R21 for sale just in your budget ;)

[Michael loves music]

Thankyou for the reply I use a rabbit ears t pole ariel stuck to the wall indoors get great reception we look over fields all signal lights light up on Nad so I'd like to use this ariel with another tuner

[Michael loves music]

Would a creek T40 be a step up from the Nad I wonder ??!?

[Spectral Morn]

This is a no brainer, for about your budget, with postage.

I have one, and it pisses over many well regarded tuners, no dials, or VU meters, boring black Jap box, but stunning.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kenwood-KT-5020L-High-End-Tuner-Zubehor-12-Mon-Garantie-/121824704788?hash=item1c5d517914:g:SbEAAOxyzqdTdOD M

This is what the Tuner Info Network says....

'Kenwood KT-5020 (1990, $269, photo, user manual, service manual) search eBay
The KT-5020 is an unassuming black digital tuner that, amazingly enough, has sound quality that many believe challenges that of the all-time best tuners. Our contributor Bill Ammons tested quieting, separation and distortion on an unmodified KT-5020 and exclaimed, "Holy potatoes, this is a sleeper!" Our panelist Jim provides lots of technical and operational info on the KT-5020 on our Shootouts page, where you can also see how one KT-5020 sounded in comparison to other top tuners. Our contributor Hank B., who owns many top tuners, chimes in: "Jim, skeptic and tin ear that I am, I had to go reread your Shootout on this fellow before committing my admittedly short-term listening impressions to paper. Suffice it to say that stunned hardly describes my reaction. Without exception, this guy excels in every realm that for my purposes is important: 1- Within literally five minutes it was obvious that its sensitivity elevated it to within the top four tuners I own; 2- Its selectivity in its unmodified and unaligned state is magnificent; 3- Though I've neither the test equipment nor the expertise to verify the operation of the multiplex demodulator or the audio section, my ears tell me that if they're not perfect, they're mighty damned close. The soundstage has the spaciousness of a good concert venue a la Carnegie Hall or the Boston Symphony Hall and the sound itself is seductively natural and lifelike; and 4- My personal 'acid test' is long-term listening and this, for me, is what ultimately separates the men from the boys. Many a fine tuner which excels in one or another realm has had its mask ripped off here. Not this Kenwood. The biggest problem I encountered was trying to keep myself listening to the tuner and not the music--it's really that good. And I don't know if all 5020s are like this one, but in it I can hear absolutely no difference in audio quality between the 'Wide' and 'Narrow' modes. How many tuners do you know of that can make that claim?"

Our contributors Tim and Ann write, "We found a KT-5020 in a pawn shop two weeks ago. We happened to have a stock McIntosh MR 78, fresh from a McIntosh labs alignment/refurbishment, that we borrowed from a dealer friend, so we compared the KT-5020 to the stock MR 78 and to the MR 74 we use as our standard tuner. From a sound quality perspective, the Kenwood CREAMED the MR 78 and was very close in sound quality to the MR 74. Compared to the KT-5020, the MR 78 was very two-dimensional and 'transistory' sounding on live Public Radio broadcasts. We were pretty surprised, as the KT-5020 is certainly no 'looker' and the MR 78's appearance suggests that it would eat the KT-5020's lunch, but such was not the case. Even the Narrow selectivity setting of the KT-5020 was identical, in our listening environment, to the Super Narrow setting of the MR 78, and the KT-5020 sure sounded much better in its Narrow setting than the stock MR 78 did in its Narrow or Super Narrow setting." Our panelist Eric, a longtime FM DXer, agrees that the KT-5020's sensitivity and selectivity exceed what one might expect and rival his top tuners for DXing and audio quality.

Our contributor Todd adds, "I have done some standard audiophool things to the KT-5020 (clean connectors, dampen the thin chassis, mount transformer on o-rings) but nothing electrical, and I've got to tell you that in comparison, my Magnum Dynalab FT-101A with the Signal Sleuth sounds much thinner, with less body on instruments. One could almost say 'Where did the drums and bass go?' The Kenwood's noise floor is quieter and has much better 'room feel'; with the FT-101A, the instruments sound like they are recorded in an anechoic chamber, with little reverb or depth. My comparison was done with headphones to be able to get down to the smaller details." And our contributor Greg adds, "In terms of accuracy of timbre, sound stage and HF extension, the KT-5020 certainly beats many other solid-state tuners I have. I must also agree with Jim's indirect hint that the KT-5020's bass might need to be just a touch more powerful. Like Jim says, the bass depth is there, but not quite the bass power. Of course we're not trying to imply that the KT-5020 is the equal of a L-02T, but I think the KT-5020 offers great performance for the price." See the KT-3050 entry above for more of Greg's KT-5020 findings. See the DIY Mods page for information on DIY audio section mods for the KT-5020, and read about the performance of a modded KT-5020 on the Modified Tuner Report page. Since early 2005, eBay sale prices have generally ranged from lows in the $200 area in 5/09 to a high of $504 in 1/08. Exceptions include one that sold for $103 in 11/08 for no discernible reason, a misguided $49 "Buy-It-Now" in 12/08, and one that sold for $710 in 4/06 when two lunatics ran the price up from $421. That is just plain ridiculous. [BF][EF][JR]'

Link to review page http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/kenwood.html

The 5020 is ranked number 10 in their reviews. http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/shootouts.html


The Kenwood 3050 - pretty rare these days is nearly as good.

[Michael loves music]

Many thanks Neil

[Spectral Morn]

Many thanks Neil

No worries Michael, its a great tuner, and if you end up not liking it, you would have no problem selling it on.

[vinylspinner]

Hello Michael,

How about a Sony ST-SA3ES series tuner, very good tuner for the money, can let you have my spare one for £50 plus a little for postage.

Nigel

[Michael loves music]

Many thanks for replies very interesting indeed

[Nick_G]

I'll also throw in the Denon TU-800L. A fantastic tuner which is also excellent at picking up hard-to-find signals. It's streets ahead of the ubiquitous TU-260. They should be had for less than £100.

[Michael loves music]

Thanks Nick will look at reviews cheers

[Michael loves music]

Just won a Nad 4300 for £20

[Michael loves music]

Expecting Nad 4300 in post tomorrow will tell you what the sounds like ????

[Audio Advent]

You could try to find a Lynx FM tuner for under £100 - supposed to be good. Also Meridian's 104 and face-lift MFM with digital display might be found for under £100. Just those need a long search for, the 104 probably being relatively easy to find.

104 is high up on the whole FM tuner info website shoot-out list.

[Arkless Electronics]

The thing with tuners is they tend to be made from the same IC's and use the same quadrature coils (to turn the signal into audio) from one manufacturer to the next. No wonder they can sound much of a muchness until you splash out for something special. The top of the range Japanese tuners from the late 70's and early 80's are still the state of the art in tuners, and will never be beaten now that digital radio is being foisted on us...

[DSJR]

The 4225 after the first batch, which went wrong I remember, were absolutely superb and only suffered because of their styling and lack of 'bling.' The performance in sound and as a 'radio' was superb as I remember and the tuner set new standards in low cost models. Don't dismiss it out of hand just because it's grey coloured and thirty years old ;)

Do PLEASE note fellas, FM radio in the UK is rather compromised and I understand it now shares the DAB feed (not sure if it has the decoded 192 or less digital stream or if it comes before the MPEG conversion). The once wonderful FM quality we enjoyed in the 70's is behind us to a large extent, although the sound can e stunning on rare occasions in my opinion.

I have two tuners on the go right now. One is an old Cambridge T55, which is superb on radio 4 and 3 (on a good day). it overloads on high-level compressed stations though (a criticism of its performance at the time - sounds a bit like sibilant mis-tracking of a pickup cartridge) and although at the time it wasn't really an issue, it is now due to high sound levels and brick-wall limiting of many/most music stations. The Arcam Delta 80 I usually use is far better from loud to quiet and both offer low background noise. I also have a serviced Quad FM3 and this is fine too as long as the signal is strong enough to achieve full 'quieting' of background noise.

[Spectral Morn]

Just won a Nad 4300 for £20

£80 shy of the better tuner, Nad is fine, but compared to the Kenwood its a less good choice, in my opinion, and the Tuner Info Network.

[Audio Advent]

Quad FM4s go for about £80 and look good.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Quad FM4s go for about £80 and look good.

But usually the internal battery has leaked, and in worst examples corroded the
circuit board. With my own I removed the battery altogether and did what is known
as the manual tuning modification. Quad also know this problem very well and
can provide a better integrated circuit, that does not require the battery.

If you do not need the front panel push button tuning, the manual tuning
modification works very well. If buying a FM4 unseen, be prepared to
fix it, and as batteries are corrosive with gloves and usual safety precautions
like disconnecting the power cord.

Cheers / Chris

[Michael loves music]

The 4225 after the first batch, which went wrong I remember, were absolutely superb and only suffered because of their styling and lack of 'bling.' The performance in sound and as a 'radio' was superb as I remember and the tuner set new standards in low cost models. Don't dismiss it out of hand just because it's grey coloured and thirty years old ;)

Do PLEASE note fellas, FM radio in the UK is rather compromised and I understand it now shares the DAB feed (not sure if it has the decoded 192 or less digital stream or if it comes before the MPEG conversion). The once wonderful FM quality we enjoyed in the 70's is behind us to a large extent, although the sound can e stunning on rare occasions in my opinion.

I have two tuners on the go right now. One is an old Cambridge T55, which is superb on radio 4 and 3 (on a good day). it overloads on high-level compressed stations though (a criticism of its performance at the time - sounds a bit like sibilant mis-tracking of a pickup cartridge) and although at the time it wasn't really an issue, it is now due to high sound levels and brick-wall limiting of many/most music stations. The Arcam Delta 80 I usually use is far better from loud to quiet and both offer low background noise. I also have a serviced Quad FM3 and this is fine too as long as the signal is strong enough to achieve full 'quieting' of background noise. the Nad 4300 is expected today but I will keep my 4225 as a spare I've read very good reports of the 4300 and at £20 I think it's a bargain it's had the preset cap replaced a common problem etc will let you know how it sounds later today

[eisenach]

In response to original post:

Tag McLaren T32R. Simply superb, both on FM and DAB.

[Michael loves music]

Nad 4300 all set up with my rabbits ears ariel pinned to the wall 3 green lights lit up and sounds amazing on radio 1 radio 2 and my local radio Leicester I'm in a bungalow with farm fields to the rear and get very good reception hence I've never had a roof ariel ! I suppose with a roof aerial the 5 green lights would light up ?? Anyone know what the narrow button is for ?

[Arkless Electronics]

Nad 4300 all set up with my rabbits ears ariel pinned to the wall 3 green lights lit up and sounds amazing on radio 1 radio 2 and my local radio Leicester I'm in a bungalow with farm fields to the rear and get very good reception hence I've never had a roof ariel ! I suppose with a roof aerial the 5 green lights would light up ?? Anyone know what the narrow button is for ?

Usually IF Narrow. IF is Intermediate Frequency. It would take too long to explain technically but it can help in bad reception/interference conditions. Wide gives the best sound quality.

[Michael loves music]

I wonder how much that Nad 4300 was in 1992 when new ? I've read it's top of the Nad tuner range ?

[DSJR]

Couple of hundred?

I think 'narrow selectivity' is just that - and the best I can describe from memory is the ability to discriminate between two radio stations if they're very close together in frequency and of similar strength. The wider the better if at all possible I think was the rule.

[Nick_G]

Glad you found a decent tuner Michael.

AFAIK the feed to the FM transmitters is digital, but it is NOT the 128-192k DAB feed - it's PCM 14-bit IIRC so near-CD quality in theory.

Back to tuners, I also managed to snag a Kenwood L-1000T for about a ton a year ago. It will need a bit of tweaking to perform at its best but with a good BBC broadcast it already sounds stunning! This one definitely did not use the common off-the-shelf ICs. It weighs about 10 kg and you can see why when you look inside. Definitely a lucky find.

Regards,
Nick

[Michael loves music]

Nick I'm just listening to Ken Bruce on radio 2 sounds amazing I think I got a very good find and I think the Nad 4300 is as rare as hens teeth ! I have dab in the car and dining room and the Nad FM sounds much better imho

[pitadavespa]

I have a NAD 4225 (I think this is the right model), a Sansui TU-S9 and a Pioneer F-757 MK2 .

I love the NADs simplicity and design. I just works fine. No problems, good reception.
The Sansui is great, probably the best among them. Very, very nice tuner, good construction and good features!

I received the Pioneer just a week ago. I had fancied about one for a while, since I have 2 Pioneer A-757 MK2 (yes, two :) ) and this turner matches the amp. I wasn't expecting the Pioneer to be better than the Sansui, but the fact is I'm really enjoying it!
It sounds more alive than the Sansui, a bit more bright and fresh and reception is also a bit better. I really wasn't expecting this! And I even got the Sansui aligned a few months ago.

I bought the Pioneer for €20, so it was an incredible good buy! :D

I'll take the Sansui to where I now have to NAD and compare them. I think I'll and up replacing the NAD.


Cheers,
Luis

[Michael loves music]

I shall ke p my Nad 4225 as a spare in wardrobe

Photos added

http://i65.tinypic.com/9a3ji1.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/t9tcte.jpg

[albertan]

A modest tuner with a killer antenna and a decent cable between them will smoke a great tuner with a set of cheep bunny ears and a ratty cable every time. The cable is cheap and an antenna is a lot less money than a new tuner. You will need a good antenna to get the most out of a killer tuner anyway.

[danilo]

Sigh I have Sony Tuner (wasn't inexpensive) best descriptor is: Junk.
Have a early 70's Sherwood 'receiver' It works quite well and sounds good.. albeit for FM.

[Michael loves music]

A modest tuner with a killer antenna and a decent cable between them will smoke a great tuner with a set of cheep bunny ears and a ratty cable every time. The cable is cheap and an antenna is a lot less money than a new tuner. You will need a good antenna to get the most out of a killer tuner anyway. is a loft FM Areil as good as a roof FM Areil ?? Will the 5 green lights show with a roof Areil ?? How much is a FM Areil ??

[Arkless Electronics]

A roof aerial is best by far.
It's impossible to say if the 5 leds will light. Signal strength meters on tuners are notoriously inaccurate and should generally be ignored. The usual issue is them showing all or nearly all leds lit when in fact the signal needs to be 10 times stronger for best results.
They are not expensive and the cost of having the installer come and fit it properly will be much more than the aerial itself.

[mikmas]

Had one fitted recently - cost me just shy of £100 but that included removing some old clutter from the chimney stack first (two aerials - both suffering from metal fatigue...)

Advantage of having someone skilled do it is having it set up for best reception (and also not scrambling around tiles two floors up)

[Michael loves music]

I have 3 out of 5 green lights lit up on my favourite stations sounds lovely but I'm sure with roof Areil will sound even better ? I'm in a bungalow would it be around £100 fitted ?

[eisenach]

How far are you from a main transmitter ? A loft aerial might do it. It's something you could try yourself. Get yourself up in the loft, make up the aerial and connect the (decent quality low loss co-ax), put a temporary run of cable to the tuner, get a friend / wife / dog to check the tuner lights / sound whilst you wiggle the aerial around in the loft. It a good idea to have some idea which direction the transmitter is in, so you get off to a flying start (see links below). If it works, all you have to do is find a way of running the cable neatly and fixing the aerial properly. If not, time to dismantle the aerial again so you can get it through the hatch and call an installer.
In the end, my Ron Smith aerial went up on the roof, but I'm 60 miles from Sutton Coldfield, and the weaker relay transmitter on Ridge Hill (between Hereford and Gloucester) really didn't sound good at all.

Here's a BBC pdf listing the FM transmitters: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/reception/pdfs/FMradiotrans.pdf (It says "main transmitters in red", but as it's a black and white document (!), I think they mean in italics !)

and a map: http://tx.mb21.co.uk/mapsys/fm/

Accurately pointing the aerial in the right direction matters, the bigger the aerial, the more so.

[Michael loves music]

Many thanks for your advice

[legb4rsk]

My old Sony ST SE700 has a digital display with a signal strength display function in db which is very useful when setting up the aerial.
I have an FM aerial in the loft & can get over 70db on some of my stations which is the max on the display. The manual recommends over 50db for good stereo reception. Same rules apply to tuners as to other hifi :rubbish in rubbish out.

The manual also rather pointedly says you can use the supplied ribbon aerial temporarily until you get an FM aerial installed.

[Michael loves music]

I'm going to move the wire rabbit ears to see if all the green lights light up ??

[Michael loves music]

Can't get 5 lights up will get roof Areil fitted

[eisenach]

... but what does it sound like ? There could be other reasons why not all the lights come on, ranging from blown lights to it needing an insanely high level to get them all to light up.
I had/have a Technics tuner that shews signal strength in dB. I never got it to move much, even when connected to the big aerial on the roof, but it sounded much better when connected to a proper twig, even if the display didn't shew so.

[Michael loves music]

I will try with headphones tomorrow sounds lovely just lights worrying me

[Michael loves music]

I've moved rabbit ears indoor Areil now get 4 lit up lights on local radio and radio 1 but only 2 lights on radio 2 why is this ? Thankyou for your help

[PaulStewart]

Michael, for the best results you need a good quality roof aerial, end of story. You are I think based in Leicestershire, in which case their may be more than just two (IBA & BBC) transmitters covering your area. I have no commercial connection with this company, but have been recvomending Ron Smith Aerials of Luton for over 35 years, since they installed a system for me at the old JVC UK headquaters in London. They also put in a specialist 23 element rotating system for me in Stoke Newington, that let me get Europe 1, from Paris in perfect, low noise stereo.

They are in my opinion, the best aerial designers in the world. They are also very competitive, pricewise. Sadly, Ron rotated off to a place of perfect reception some years ago, but his son still runs the company, give them a call and ask for their recommendations I don't think you will go far wrong.