Can I borrow an expensive interconnect - pretty please!

[Accudazed]

Hi

The most I have ever spent on an interconnect is £40.

Considering my CD player new is £6k and my amp's current version near £10k the notion of connecting them with £26 XLR cables may sound ludicrous to some hifi fans! That's fair enough! To be honest though, I simply don't know.

I often wonder if another layer of information and more realism would be magically unlocked by more expensive interconnects. Am I nedlessly holding back my hifi simply because I've connected them with glorified bell wire? But then another gremlin on my shoulder wonders if well, copper is, er, copper no matter what it is wrapped in. Even silver it seems may be nothing more than a glorified industrial metal. Truth is, I just don't know. I have never tried 'decent' cables on my system in my house.

Naturally, I want to get the best out my amp and CD player and often wonder if expensive interconnects are the way to go. By the way, when I say 'expensive', I mean up to about £500. I appreciate that in the rareified world of high-end hifi £500 is not that, er, expensive. I mean, I have seen second hand 0.7m long interconnects on sale at £17000!!!!! Still, £500 is not small money for me!!

I am sure there are many AoS members who have taken the plunge and gone for more expensive interconnects and much has been written about it on the AoS. All very interesting and useful BUT - and it is a biggy - we are not comparing like for like. They aint in my system in my house with my 'test' CDs.

I've no entrenched views about expensive interconnects. Honest! If it sounds great then I don't care how much it cost or who it was made by. The sound quality is all that matters to me. If it sounds great and I can afford it, I'll buy it (with a credit card companies money!:lol:) That's always been my simple approach to hifi.

So, rather than blow a ton of cash on a cable to find the whole concept a disaster (I can't begin to imagine what my long suffering wife would think...) I was wondering if any AoS members would be prepared to let me borrow a pair of their 'high end' XLR cables? Naturally I would pay for FULLY INSURED shipping and replace any cable that I damaged (which is incredibly unlikely!!). You could even try to catch me out by popping a low quality cable in as well to make it a bit of a 'blind test'.

Anyone fancy giving it a go?:) It could change my system forever. Or not...?

Cheers

Steve

[Hudz]

Got some Achtung Audio silver litzs you could borrow Steve, Xlr connections but only 600 mm long and not run in yet.
Changed my pre and not needed, not exactly high end, bout 100 quid IRRC but your welcome to have a go PM your address if you wanna try em

[Andrei]

Good idea Steven - well worth a try! See if you can give Oyaide AZ-910 or AR-910 a go from somewhere.
By the way, how do you find your Ayon CD player compared with the others. I'm curious 'cause I just got first bit of Ayon gear?

[CageyH]

How long do the cables have to be?
I have some long Klotz MC5000 cables you could borrow as a cheap alternative to a high end cable.

[Macca]

Have some cambridge audio Xlr leads that were a ton retail. Never used, still in the blister pack. A lthough the pack has been opened. You are welcome to have a borrow.

[Yomanze]

Save your money, XLR cables don't have a 'sound'. I just use Neutrik & Canare XLR cables, which are solid, fit & forget.

...I do have some expensive RCA cables, which do make a slight difference.

[trio leo]

Hi Steven,
You have a pm.

cheers Al :)

[Stratmangler]

I find the concept of a "high end" XLR cable an interesting thing to consider.
XLR is a studio standard connection,and it's designed to not be fussy - you are after all connecting 2 legs live at 180 degrees out of phase. The out of phase thing is concerned about interference getting in there, so interference effectively cancels itself.

Studios do not expect to pay over the odds to satisfy "audiophile sensibilities", yet there are a good number of audio engineers that consider themselves audiophiles.

[Rothchild]

I'm somewhat bewildered by this, how can cable make 'night and day' differences and command ridiculous prices in an unbalanced format but 'not have a sound' if presented in a balanced format? (especially over the short distances we're talking about in terms of interconnects)

If this was actually the case why would hi end hi-fi manufacturers not take the opportunity to remove this variable from the quality of their gear and just make it all use balanced connectors?

Sorry op, I don't have a cable to lend you, but I am intrigued to see how this pans out.

[Yomanze]

I now have my Mark Grant Canare / Neutrik XLR surplus if you would like to borrow it. :)

[Yomanze]

I'm somewhat bewildered by this, how can cable make 'night and day' differences and command ridiculous prices in an unbalanced format but 'not have a sound' if presented in a balanced format? (especially over the short distances we're talking about in terms of interconnects)

If this was actually the case why would hi end hi-fi manufacturers not take the opportunity to remove this variable from the quality of their gear and just make it all use balanced connectors?

Sorry op, I don't have a cable to lend you, but I am intrigued to see how this pans out.
Read Strat's post above yours for one technical reason.

Also the most cable and materials fanatic manufacturer I know (LFD) doesn't even make XLR cables anymore.

[Yomanze]

Really though, cables only make a night and day difference if they are broken or have weird, extreme, LCR parameters.

[Macca]

Night and day is one thing but I think most of us have heard interconnects sound subtly different. And if that subtle difference is also a subtle improvement then it would appear that the change/cost was worth doing. Subtle improvements are just as worth having as night and day improvements.

XLR cables are analogue the same as RCA cables so why should they not have different, albeit subtle, effects on the sound the same as RCA cables?

If anyone is one of those folk who think all cables with LCR within the acceptable range sound identical then come round here and I will demonstrate to your satisfaction that you are mistaken ;)

[Yomanze]

A lot of it is down to RCA being a flawed connection in many ways allowing more variances to exist.

[Macca]

Fair point.

[Stratmangler]

XLR cables are analogue the same as RCA cables so why should they not have different, albeit subtle, effects on the sound the same as RCA cables?

XLR source equipment generally has higher output than single ended ended (typically twice that of CD), so you might well find that the combination of higher drive and differential signalling might well make any differences a lot less apparent.

You'll also find that impedance matching is between components will be properly implemented - Pro users do not like flakey, and kit that utilises pro connections will be built to pro specs.
Proper impedance matching is taken as a given.
If it isn't then word gets around very quickly, to the detriment of the non complying company's sales.

[Accudazed]

Good idea Steven - well worth a try! See if you can give Oyaide AZ-910 or AR-910 a go from somewhere.
By the way, how do you find your Ayon CD player compared with the others. I'm curious 'cause I just got first bit of Ayon gear?

Hi Andrei

The Ayon CD-3S is the best front end I have ever heard. It's as simple as that. To my ears it shows just how far CD players have come - just in time for everyone to move to PC/internet based audio!!

Here's what Hifi+ (September 2013) make of the Ayon CD-3S:
"This is instead one of the best sounding CD players you can buy. In fact, it’s so good, it makes you question the need to rip all those discs to a computer, when they sound this good. In 2013, audiophile CD replay needs a champion to fight for the cause. In the Ayon Audio CD-3s, I think we’ve found it."

The full article can be read here: http://www.fiaudio.co.uk/news/ayon-audio-cd-3s-cd-player-hi-fi-review.html

I'm always a bit wary of gushing product reviews but on this occasion I agree with the reviewer. My ears back up his judgements. Perhaps our ears are wired up the same!

Ayon certainly seem to have tried hard with the 3S. The build quality is amazing for a start - panel fit, polished alloy, slab sized casings, perfect paint, crisp CNC machining, etc. are all as good as anything out there. Inside there are gold plated circuit boards, 4 transformers, high end DAC chips, expensive capacitors, a hefty transport mechanism (using an easy to find Sony laser from their ubiquitous KSS series) made by another Austrian firm Stream Unlimited, neat wiring, etc. and, shock horror(!), 8 valves...We don't see many valve based CD players these days which, if the 3S is anything to go by, is a real shame.

Being a valve based CD player may give the impression that this is a machine oozing an 'analogue like' smooth sound (whatever that really is...). A sort of big cuddly soft thing perfect for warm and cozy listening sessions long into the night. Well, there is no evidence of such behaviour. The sound is entirely neutral. I suspect that 'all' you get is what has been recorded. Nothing added or taken away. So, great Steely Dan recordings for instance sound just amazing. The superb dynamic range of their recordings really give my amp a good workout - it's fun watching the VU meters going ballistic at only modest listening levels! A dense aggressive recording like Nirvana's 'Nevermind' (loudness war kings!) comes across full of rage, distortion, etc. A real mess of a recording if ever there was one but nevertheless revealed in all its brutal glory. You sit in the chair with your senses being assaulted by all that dense hard edged energy and can't help but reflect on the fact that it is being generated by warm and cuddly valves! Surely a sign of valves being within a well designed system that allows them to major on accuracy rather than colouration?

The mythical hard edged CD 'grain' is totally absent. Detail retrieval is phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. Until I got this player I had no idea just how much information is actually on a CD. With my Beyerdynamic T1 Headphones I can go so far into the mix that all sorts of incidental background stuff appears - guitar amp buzz, tiny amounts of feedback, vocal phrasing, etc. are all there and I had never heard them before. All the other stuff we enjoy, e.g. vast soundstage, bass extension, timing, space, tonality, etc, etc. are all there in spades too.

It's not all perfect though. I suppose a forensic level of detail retrieval and absolute neutrality are always going to reveal poor recordings as, well, poor. That's okay for me; frustrating, but a fact of life.

Function wise there's plenty to mess about with: built in pre-amp , PC/internet connections, inputs for other transports, etc. As I have no interest in PC audio (much of my working day is taken up by endless PC problems which I am in no rush to 'enjoy' at home...) I have no idea how the 3S deals with PC audio and high res files. The 3S does make a superb DAC though for other CD players. I run a mint £25 Technics SLPG-590 CD Player into it and the sound quality is fantastic!!! Easily the qual of a £2k turntable and £2k phonostage. My Denon CD player gets a significant boost in sound quality too. Still, that's modern high end DACs for you. They really are superb and mean that my 3S will live on long after its transport has died or become extinct! This seems unlikely though as Sony KSS lasers are everywhere. Also Ayon have a policy of providing service parts for a long time - they are keen to avoid their CD players being written off prematurely by worn out lasers. Other high end manufacturers take note. We know who you are.

If the 3S stays in one piece then I will be ecstatic! Let's hope I have more luck with it than with some of my previous CD players.

Here's a few naked piccies:

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/busaste/05.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/busaste/media/05.jpg.html)

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/busaste/07.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/busaste/media/07.jpg.html)

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/busaste/10.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/busaste/media/10.jpg.html)

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/busaste/09.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/busaste/media/09.jpg.html)

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/busaste/15.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/busaste/media/15.jpg.html)

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/busaste/12.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/busaste/media/12.jpg.html)

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/busaste/08.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/busaste/media/08.jpg.html)

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/busaste/16.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/busaste/media/16.jpg.html)

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/busaste/13.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/busaste/media/13.jpg.html)

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x388/busaste/CD3s_inside_HR.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/busaste/media/CD3s_inside_HR.jpg.html)

Hats off to Ayon then. A hifi manufacturer very much in the zone just now.

Regards

Steve

[Rothchild]

Read Strat's post above yours for one technical reason.

I don't see how that's a reason that they don't impart a sonic signature, just that they have better RF rejection (thanks to the phase cancellation of the differential signal). As I mentioned, on the distances we're generally talking about in Hifi, that's unlikely to really make a significant difference really, is it?

Next you'll be telling me that if I bought a directional audio cable it wouldn't matter which end of the cable I attach the male or female xlr barrel, or some such heresy..

[Accudazed]

Thanks for the interesting replies and offers of help. Hats off to the AoS!

It looks like this cable thing might not be that straightforward after all. Is it the case then that interconnects make a subtle difference at best? Or am I wrong? Is the person who buys an £18000 interconnect halfway to the funny farm or lucky to have such a thing?

Has anyone ever had a game changer moment with an interconnect? You know, plug in and go, WOW!

Sadly, I haven't but then I buy cheap so what should I expect?

Somebody is buying high end interconnects though. There seems to be quite an industry around this aspect of a hifi system.

Regards

Steve

[Firebottle]

Wow, wow and 'king wow.

That looks and sounds like from your description the ultimate CD replay equipment.
I did wonder when it said 8 valves, but 4 of them are rectifiers in the power supply :thumbsup:

Plus the other 4 are 6H30's, just about one of the most linear valves there is :wowzer:

If there is one item I'd spend lottery winnings on it would be this.

:)

[Andrei]

Has anyone ever had a game changer moment with an interconnect? You know, plug in and go, WOW!

No, no game changer but I am sure you will notice a difference - and for the better - with a good quality silver interconnect. I believe that the better your gear the more likely you are to hear a difference in cables.


Wow, wow and 'king wow.
Plus the other 4 are 6H30's, just about one of the most linear valves there is :wowzer:

The Ayon Eris Pre-amp has these valves as well.