I get it now

[Jac Hawk]

For years I've been dead against Apple (the brand not the fruit), seeing it as nothing more than clever software running on average hardware in a pretty box, that goes for the computers, tablets, phones etc. Anyway I recently bought myself a van, the stereo in it was crap, so i decided on a replacement that linked to my phone, not only for calls but also sat nav, email, spotify basically the whole shooting match. So i chose a Pioneer as it would link to my Sony Z3 smartphone and it did in bursts of about 3 or 4 minutes at a time, other problems where that it wouldn't supply enough charge to allow me to use the sat nav for any length of time. I went on a few forums looking for advice, maybe i needed an update for the stereo, maybe I wasn't connecting it right, turned out that the mirror function that enabled me to use the features of my phone on the stereo where problematic at best and the overwhelming advice given on the forums was to use an iPhone with Air Play. So I swallowed my pride, went into the Carphone Warehouse and got one.

What a difference,it just works and without all the messing about. So then I need a new laptop, so I thought in for a penny, once again it not only links to my phone, i can use it to make calls via my phone, but it links to my new amp seamlessly, and without the head scratching that seems to come when you use a pc and want to do something a bit out of the norm, it recognised that my amp had air play and gave it to me as an option.

Am i a convert? What the hell do you think, i still maintain that you can get more for your money going down the android / windows route, but if you need it to integrate to more than just a printer, Apple is hard to beat. What do you guys think?

[mikmas]

Being an Mac owner/user for over 20 years you may think I'm biased (and who knows, I probably am) but one thing for sure is that I have never regretted buying any of the desktop, laptop and phones I've had and always got top performance and value for money from every one ... which is more than I can say for the plethora of other branded machines that have passed though our household (the other half preferred Windows). That said I have been less than impressed with their peripheral bits and bobs and stopped using Apple branded mice and keyboards years ago (these are definitely overpriced shoddy crap IMV).

In terms of software, successive Mac OS have been unbeatable - I have plenty of experience with the main rivals and none come even near in terms of reliability and ease of use. A different story when it comes to the applications they used to deliver free with each OS upgrade (such as iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, etc). They have gradually slid downhill to become so unusable for me that they no longer even enter my mind let alone the system... the only exception being iTunes but only because it's chained to syncing all the utilities on my iPhone and integrating my music collection - otherwise it would join the others in the bin*.

*edited to add that no matter what minor gripes I have with iTunes, these pale into insignificance when compared to the absolutely pants software known as Samsung Kies that I would need to use to sync my Samsung tablet - suffice to say I don't even bother .....

[Audio Advent]

For years I've been dead against Apple (the brand not the fruit), seeing it as nothing more than clever software running on average hardware in a pretty box, that goes for the computers, tablets, phones etc. Anyway I recently bought myself a van, the stereo in it was crap, so i decided on a replacement that linked to my phone, not only for calls but also sat nav, email, spotify basically the whole shooting match. So i chose a Pioneer as it would link to my Sony Z3 smartphone and it did in bursts of about 3 or 4 minutes at a time, other problems where that it wouldn't supply enough charge to allow me to use the sat nav for any length of time. I went on a few forums looking for advice, maybe i needed an update for the stereo, maybe I wasn't connecting it right, turned out that the mirror function that enabled me to use the features of my phone on the stereo where problematic at best and the overwhelming advice given on the forums was to use an iPhone with Air Play. So I swallowed my pride, went into the Carphone Warehouse and got one.

What a difference,it just works and without all the messing about. So then I need a new laptop, so I thought in for a penny, once again it not only links to my phone, i can use it to make calls via my phone, but it links to my new amp seamlessly, and without the head scratching that seems to come when you use a pc and want to do something a bit out of the norm, it recognised that my amp had air play and gave it to me as an option.

Am i a convert? What the hell do you think, i still maintain that you can get more for your money going down the android / windows route, but if you need it to integrate to more than just a printer, Apple is hard to beat. What do you guys think?

I'm sure you can do all that pretty easily with an all Google set-up - chromebook + nexus phone - and at a lower price if you want to go the all-the-same-brand route.

What people forget when going all Apple is that they are going from different manufacturers to one. Perhaps it is just that which makes a difference? Could you have gone all Sony instead? Or all Samsung or all Google like above?

I can do the phone thing with my laptop via Blackberry and Blackberry Blend software and my phone cost £120 secondhand last year, obviously using my current windows laptop - no need to spend on a new one. Audio-wise the phone can transmit audio to any aptX or non-aptX bluetooth device and it's as simple as connecting to the device in the bluetooth settings on the phone. The Neutron Player (a native BB10 and Android app) can send via wifi to upnp device too. I've not done the latter but aptX always works seemlessly.

As I see it, it all depends on the depths of your pocket.. I can get a buttler and everything in life is suddenly simple, no effort. Or I can save that money and read manuals a little bit to get things working fine. The Apple butler also has some lower standards than I - only streams AAC for example and you're stuck with built-in DACs whereas I'd rather send wav or just have a wire and use a really good, regular DAC like my Beresford via USB.

What happens when you want to change your amp? No audio connection or are you now locked into an Apple-licenced world with limited choices? Aaargh, I wouldn't even step into that world.

Don't get me wrong, I like the OS and design of their products but I don't like the eco-system. Their PCs are of course the same as any other intel based product under the skin and software too, in fact some are exactly the same with all the same chipsets (or they have been in the past at least).

[Ninanina]

Good for you Mike...:)

I used to program Windows based machines and have been around pc's since their first appearance, that makes me feel old :doh:

However since I purchased a used Mac Mini about 3 years ago I won't touch a Windows based machine; I used to help out a lot of friends with their own Windows machines but I now refuse to, and I'm very rusty anyhow

My cheapo Mac Mini has served me very well and has never missed a beat since I switched it on 3 years ago and runs just as fast today as it did from day one

Having been completely sold on the Mac I now also have an iPhone and an iPad and again both 'just work' and never have problems

I remember forever having 'to fiddle' with my various Windows machines over the last 25+ years to get them to work properly but have never touched the Mac. I think a lot of the reason that Mac OSX is so stable is what it's written in, Unix. Unix is also generally thought of as being harder to hack so less problems with viruses etc

It maybe that under the skin of any Mac lies a very similar Intel chipset to any Windows based machine but it's the OS that makes the Mac work properly. I also rarely use any 3rd party software on my Mac as it has everything (which Apple include for free) I need

So for myself, who made a good living programming Windows machines, I am a complete Apple convert....

I don't have deep pockets either... the Mac Mini was £250, I had the iPad given to me as a Christmas present 3 years ago (nice present :)) and I still have an iPhone 5s which is paid for and I won't be upgrading anytime soon... so I havn't exactly 'shelled' out much on my Apple stuff :D

[The Black Adder]

I wouldn't buy an apple device on principle. But that's just me.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Am I the only one using failed G5 macs as stands for JR149's?

[Ali Tait]

They take the piss with their prices. Not saying it's not good kit, I use an Ipad, but only got it because my other half got a discount deal through work. I wouldn't have bought one otherwise on principle, can't see any justification for the prices they charge.

[Gordon Steadman]

I think the pricing thing has been taken care of. If I look at tablet prices, they all seem about the same now. Macs have always been expensive and until recently, rightly so. Unlike the few PCs that have passed fleetingly through Chateau Nodrog, none have stopped working and have merely been replaced with later models. All the old ones are still up in the loft and work fine on their antiquated operating systems.

The OS. That is what sets Apple apart for me. Streets and streets ahead of any Windows system I have ever used. I still see friend struggling with their latest toys. Even the basics just seem hard work in comparison.

I suspect that the Apple knocking started out with geeks who pride themselves on their geekery and ability to work around the problems. As a meme, it has just spread and become public knowledge. Most of us don't want all that stuff. We just want a machine that is as easy to use as the microwave and looks as though it was actually designed rather than thrown together from a load of unconnected parts. If that makes it less special for the price then tough. The OS alone is worth extra dosh.

I appreciate that for some, good industrial design comes a poor second to cheap and cheerful but for others, and I am one, I want to have a few quality items around rather than one of everything.

I also declare a long term user bias. 30 years now and it don't seem a day too much:violin:

[Ali Tait]

Really? £450 for a 32gb Ipad 3?

You could buy a decent pc or laptop for that, or even considerably less.

[The Black Adder]

I don't know... the prices of iPad's, iPhone 6's (or whatever is 'the new one') are astronomical in comparison to other manufactures. I could spend half and spend the other half on music or something else.

I honestly shudder and shake my head in disbelief at the prices.

[The Black Adder]

Mac OS is good... but I can manage using a well sorted Windows 10 system and save a lot of money along the way. The end results will be the same regardless.

Mac's can't render or make my art work any better than a PC can.

[Gordon Steadman]

Mac OS is good... but I can manage using a well sorted Windows 10 system and save a lot of money along the way. The end results will be the same regardless.

Mac's can't render or make my art work any better than a PC can.

So can I but I would rather make something I have to do as enjoyable as possible. There is more to life than mere function.

I've looked at prices out here and there is no difference between the prices of equivalent Apple, Samsung or Sony tablets... actually not quite true, the Sony are slightly more expensive. Sure you can get a tablet for peanuts but I have tried one at a friend's house and it is just about worth the peanuts they paid.

This remains a pointless discussion as minds are made up about unimportant stuff like this and seem to get stuck in the groove. However, clearly some people get to change their minds and appreciate the finer things of life.:ner:

PS Why have expensive hi-fi when a budget system does the same job - very nearly - for a fraction of the price?

[Desmo]

I wouldn't buy an apple device on principle. But that's just me.

+1 - Would not go near any apple devices by choice. I did once work for an employer who only issued Mac books to employees - I could not wait to give the thing back when I left that company. Have not missed it at all since.

[mikmas]

The Apple butler also has some lower standards than I - only streams AAC for example and you're stuck with built-in DACs whereas I'd rather send wav or just have a wire and use a really good, regular DAC like my Beresford via USB.

Absolute nonsense - I have connected my Mac Mini to various DACs with absolutely no problems and also stream to a Pi/IQaudio combo .... and this includes WAV should I so wish. FLAC requires a workaround but as I don't use them this is a non-issue for me


What happens when you want to change your amp? No audio connection or are you now locked into an Apple-licenced world with limited choices?

That also makes no sense at all - how is an amp in any way bound to a Mac or PC ????

[mikmas]

I've looked at prices out here and there is no difference between the prices of equivalent Apple, Samsung or Sony tablets... actually not quite true, the Sony are slightly more expensive. Sure you can get a tablet for peanuts but I have tried one at a friend's house and it is just about worth the peanuts they paid.

I have had a Linux tablet and two from Samsung (running Android). The Linux one was a cheap joke and the Samsungs both suffered from the appallingly poor support offered by Samsung in terms of updates and interface software (Samsung Kies is probably the worst piece of software I have ever some across in every respect) I have used Mac tablets at work and they left all 3 miles behind at the starting gate in every aspect.

[Gordon Steadman]

All this angst about the choice of a piece of consumer goods:rolleyes: You couldn't make it up.

Apple are no different to any other big company. They try to make money, it's called business. The way they work is also no different and they use the same factories employing slave labour in China as every other big company in the world today. Yesterday it was Microsoft at the top so they were hated, now it's Apple. Nowt so queer as folk.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

All this angst about the choice of a piece of consumer goods:rolleyes: You couldn't make it up.

Apple are no different to any other big company. They try to make money, it's called business. The way they work is also no different and they use the same factories employing slave labour in China as every other big company in the world today. Yesterday it was Microsoft at the top so they were hated, now it's Apple. Nowt so queer as folk.

Which is why Linux exists for consumers to start making intelligent decisions, instead of being misled and paying through the nose and further if that's possible.

[Gordon Steadman]

Which is why Linux exists for consumers to start making intelligent decisions, instead of being misled and paying through the nose and further if that's possible.

You are still doing it. We live in a consumer society. OK it's good to have the choice but all big companies can do is lay their product in front of the public and let them choose. Accusations of gullible public etc etc are a nonsense as it is applicable to every area of life like food, hi-fi and cars to name a few. Quite why people get so intense about the whole thing is a mystery. If you want it to change you will have to change society. Good luck with that.

[The Black Adder]

PS Why have expensive hi-fi when a budget system does the same job - very nearly - for a fraction of the price?

lol.. I'm not against anyone buying an Apple device, it's just that I wouldn't.

My Hifi does a different job entirely, sonically than a new budget system would do. So I see that as a benefit in terms to cost. An Apple device for me wouldn't make that same leap of importance or difference so it's money down the swanny.


:ner:

[Gordon Steadman]

lol.. I'm not against anyone buying an Apple device, it's just that I wouldn't.

My Hifi does a different job entirely, sonically than a new budget system would do. So I see that as a benefit in terms to cost. An Apple device for me wouldn't make that same leap of importance or difference so it's money down the swanny.


:ner:

You used the important two words:)

[The Black Adder]

Indeed... :)

[struth]

Scots computers are crap:lol:

[Gazjam]

Overpriced Shite.


Sent from my Ipad.

*irony*

[mikmas]

Which is why Linux exists for consumers to start making intelligent decisions,

I didn't know Linux made computers - where can you buy one?

[Jac Hawk]

I think i might have opened a can of worms here. My problem wasn't that my old Sony phone was a bad phone, poorly made or even broken, it was the fact that the mirror view function on the phone and my van stereo didn't work as it should. Yes in store for a couple of minutes link it worked, but in the real world it was a pain in the backside, requiring the phone and stereo to be turned off and then on again before the link could be reestablished, it was not only inconvenient but dangerous and to be honest the android link wasn't fit for purpose.

I know Apple is expensive, very expensive, but it just works, i can buy other equipment and be confident that if it has the Apple air play logo on it, my Mac and iPhone will connect to it without any issues, that can't be said about Android and to a certain extent Windows too. i think the problem is that most of us have grown up with pc's and expect to get software and hardware that is about 90% functional (cast your mind back to vista) we expect the first release of anything made by microsoft to be riddled with bugs, it a standing joke, you buy a new laptop and it's stated battery life is 4hrs, yes with the screen turned off it might be, but through normal use probably less than half that time. On the flip side my Mac's stated battery life is 10hrs between charges, guess what that's exactly what i get.

All i can say is i use a pc at work and it's fine in the office environment and if you'r ready to piss about with hardware and software at home, go for it, but if like me, you've been working with computers all day, the last thing you want is more of the same when you get home, i don't want to be going backwards and forwards to the shop where i got my latest bit of kit, cos it won't connect to my pc properly, in short i don't want the hassle, if i have to pay a bit extra so be it.