View Full Version : Will I notice a difference?
I have some old Cable Talk 3.1 (AKA Linn K20 & Naim NACA4 ?) that I have just fitted in my system.
I was thinking of getting some Cable Talk - Talk 3, but is it really worth spending cash on something that is likely to give me a marginal difference in sound?
How much better is it likely to be?
Failing Talk 3 being an upgrade, what speaker cable would you recommend? I don't want to spend loads on a chunk of copper dressed up in glad rags.... :eyebrows:
brian2957
16-11-2015, 09:11
Kevin , there is no resemblance whatsoever , physically or audibly , between the two cables . Talk 3 is much better in all areas IMO . :)
Gordon Steadman
16-11-2015, 09:16
I've just junked an old Flymo Keven. I could rescue the nice orange cable from the dechetterie for you if you want:eyebrows:
Has it been burnt in Gordon? :eyebrows:
I have some cheap copper speaker cable that I tried, smaller section than yours, and the Talk 3.1 sounded better to me.
I may swap some QED SA in and see if that makes a difference before I buy any more cable.
Gordon Steadman
16-11-2015, 10:30
Has it been burnt in Gordon? :eyebrows:
It seems likely as the mower was smoking nicely just before it shuddered to a halt! As ever, everything seems very system dependent and especially speaker dependent. My thick cheap stuff suits the Quads, KEFs and Bitsas so I just stick with it and enjoy the music when I can hear it. Anyway, I have more important stuff to do now like preparing cars for the international races in Bordeaux next June:hotrod:
wee tee cee
16-11-2015, 12:38
What length are you using with the frugels? I found them pretty fussy cable wise.
The cheap stuff recommended for the 57s has worked really well-they dont seem to be that fussy.
If you are still close coupling the propius amps then you can have a bit of experimentation without breaking the bank.
Very system dependent IMHO.
Tony, it's for the Firebottle AIR.
I need about 8m of cable, so trying loads of different options is out of the question.
Gordon Steadman
16-11-2015, 13:30
Tony, it's for the Firebottle AIR.
I need about 8m of cable, so trying loads of different options is out of the question.
We know that 'my' cable works with the AIR and, as with Tony, it has to be worth a go at £12 for 10 metres!! here is the link again http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270370467142?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Thanks for the link Gordon.
The Talk 3.1 is not much different. I am tempted to try something solid core (think 2.5mm mains cable) as Steve from Electric Beach says that this works better with the speakers.
BilliumB
16-11-2015, 14:21
Have you given up on the Belden stuff that you were using?
Yes. I have changed my speakers and amplification since.
I think it will be overkill for my current speakers, but I am tempted to try some RG6 cross-connected speaker cable.
wee tee cee
16-11-2015, 16:25
When Steve built mine he left wires in place to let me wire direct to the driver. Might be an idea to see if Steve still makes cables for the Frugels. The solid core stuff they are wired with is thin and quite brittle, I broke the ends a couple of times.
I tried loads of different cables in jumper length. Steves hard wired cable even saw off TQ ultra black!!! I eventually settled on doubled up TQ black-more than lightly colouring the sound to my preference.
As Alan said the basic copper stuff is no nonsense cable-well worth a punt. I terminated them with Mark Grant banana plugs,the copper just fits and no more bar the odd wee straggler that got trimmed.
Oldpinkman
16-11-2015, 17:42
What's wrong with that lovely QED cable you have spare in your box? :D
I'll post it to you Richard. I have some spare. :ner:
It actually seems ok with these speakers and the AIR. I guess a 25W 4" driver does not need much in the way of cable to make it work ok.
Back to back testing is difficult on my own. Blind testing almost impossible.
I just don't seem to get a lot of time at the moment. Too busy looking after my ladies.
One is on crutches, and the other..... :dummy:
Oldpinkman
16-11-2015, 18:11
That's the right priorities Kevin.
:)
Mark Grant
16-11-2015, 20:55
We know that 'my' cable works with the AIR and, as with Tony, it has to be worth a go at £12 for 10 metres!! here is the link again http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270370467142?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
The description says ''Conductor type - OFC Copper Clad'' which suggests it is some metal other than copper that has been coated with copper,
Probably CCS (Copper Clad Steel) or CCA ( Copper Clad Aluminium) which is why it is cheap as copper is expensive.
Good marketing though as they are selling plenty.
Gordon Steadman
16-11-2015, 21:00
The description says ''Conductor type - OFC Copper Clad'' which suggests it is some metal other than copper that has been coated with copper,
Probably CCS (Copper Clad Steel) or CCA ( Copper Clad Aluminium) which is why it is cheap as copper is expensive.
Good marketing though as they are selling plenty.
Good sounding too:)
We know that 'my' cable works with the AIR and, as with Tony, it has to be worth a go at £12 for 10 metres!! here is the link again http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270370467142?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Thanks for the link Gordon :)
This is well worth a try doubled up http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291614662789 can't recall who posted this link originally (Orbscure?) but it topped TQ Black, Supra and some homebrew cat5 in my system
brian2957
18-11-2015, 17:48
This looks interesting Martin . I've just ordered 10m . Thanks for the link :)
Ali Tait
18-11-2015, 18:12
S'what I'm using, good cable Brian.
This is well worth a try doubled up http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291614662789 can't recall who posted this link originally (Orbscure?) but it topped TQ Black, Supra and some homebrew cat5 in my system
got some of that stuff in shed I think.. need to have a hunt around for it sometime. got lots of cables to sort out and decide what to get shot of ;)
brian2957
18-11-2015, 19:07
1 run or 2 per channel mate ?
Not made up as anything. Just a length I got it when I was gonna make cable up but used the Doncaster instead.
brian2957
18-11-2015, 19:29
OK Grant , no probs mate .
Think it was the plan to make one long one single run and if it was ok turn it into two.. if not then double up and try that. Then buy more cable if needed. It was gonna be a trial that never got done. Might try it if I can find it. Or look for that thick stuff you were telling me about
brian2957
18-11-2015, 20:05
Can't remember mate:mental:
Can't remember mate:mental:
van damme 6mm I think:) ...honest I aint crazy
brian2957
18-11-2015, 20:34
Ah I remember now :) You are a little bit though , just like most of us :ner:
It's a bit of an eye opener Brian, nothing at all like that horrid silver QED stuff.
Gels quite nicely with your ICs
1 run or 2 per channel mate ?
Tried it with one and it was a little bit thin sounding, 2 per channel deffo put more meat on the bones, was gonna try 3 but my plugs won't take it
Its only 2.05mm or so thick
brian2957
18-11-2015, 21:30
Thanks Martin . I will try it with one run initially and go from there :)
brian2957
18-11-2015, 21:32
It's a bit of an eye opener Brian, nothing at all like that horrid silver QED stuff.
Gels quite nicely with your ICs
That's good to know Martin . :)
That's good to know Martin . :)
if I can find that length Brian you can try it if you want and see if its any good to you. :) Going to order a set of Rocnrollers for my new cd player I think. quite like the set under the amp:)
anyone got any 6mm van damme to try?
brian2957
18-11-2015, 22:08
Rockin'Rollers rool mate . They're good aren't they :D What lenght of speaker cable do you need again mate . I have a 2m set of VD 6mm ( the clear pink ones ) you can try .
What CD player have you got now Grant .
Rockin'Rollers rool mate . They're good aren't they :D What lenght of speaker cable do you need again mate . I have a 2m set of VD 6mm ( the clear pink ones ) you can try .
What CD player have you got now Grant .
Not heard of the pink ones ;) will go well with me crinoline frock ;) got a sony 930 in transit and due to land shortly :eyebrows: Going to run it without a dac. less cables and use its own dac. ......2mtr set would be fine to try mate.
R&R's on order now
Thanks Martin . I will try it with one run initially and go from there :)
Got about 9m spare Brian if you need it for a second run, free gratis
brian2957
18-11-2015, 22:27
Martin , you're a gentleman . I've ordered 10m ( 4x2m runs ) because I thought a single run would do . I was starting to get the feeling that I would have to order some more to double this up . Could I trouble you to send me the 9m run which you have as this would save me mucking around and I could go straight to the double run . I have PMd you my address .
Nay bother, have to go to the postie tomorrow so I'll pop it in the post, no charge, as a thank you for the IC's
brian2957
18-11-2015, 22:35
Fantastic Martin , thanks again .
brian2957
18-11-2015, 22:37
Not heard of the pink ones ;) will go well with me crinoline frock ;) got a sony 930 in transit and due to land shortly :eyebrows: Going to run it without a dac. less cables and use its own dac. ......2mtr set would be fine to try mate.
R&R's on order now
Aye and yer handbag and shoes not to mention yer unmentionables :lol:
I'll give you a bell mate :)
oooha, crin knicks :eek: Sold the monarchy dac by the way.... part of the thinning out process
brian2957
18-11-2015, 23:09
Oooh ! Well done mate . Somebody got a very nice piece of gear there :) What's your next project now that you've got a big wad ( excuse the pun :) ) . Spill the beans , go on go on go on :D
Looking forward to hearing the new Sony CD player . It's years since I heard one , I was always a Marantz man
. The speaker cable I'll be bringing across is this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-2x6mm-Hifi-Speaker-Cable-per-metre-268-506-000-/171963179757?hash=item2809cde2ed:g:iHMAAOSw9mFWF5I x
Got a new TT on order too... its a direct drive jobbie. a sort of stable platter lol. The classic and stunning Thorens may have to go :( although fortunately I doubt anyone would want it so :carrot::carrot::rfl:
brian2957
18-11-2015, 23:18
When is that coming then . Is it brand new ?
not new but nice condition. be a couple of weeks I think and looking forward to it. Its possibly my 2 final itches shall I say. ....well maybe a nice switch box too. Should be able to go down to 1 rack now too so one of mine will likely be available(not sure yet which one though)
It makes sense at this point in my life to get a simple but good system with a few replacements to slot in should I need or want. Ive chased the HiFi road and now know what I want/need.......... I feel chilled about it:)
brian2957
18-11-2015, 23:33
Excellent mate . The simpler the better :D
Thanks for the link Gordon.
The Talk 3.1 is not much different. I am tempted to try something solid core (think 2.5mm mains cable) as Steve from Electric Beach says that this works better with the speakers.
I tried some solid core mains cable between a Quad 303 and a pair of B&W speakers for a while. Didn't really notice any difference than with decent multi stranded cable except it was a right bugger to route anywhere - so bloody inflexible :steam:
Martin , you're a gentleman . I've ordered 10m ( 4x2m runs ) because I thought a single run would do . I was starting to get the feeling that I would have to order some more to double this up . Could I trouble you to send me the 9m run which you have as this would save me mucking around and I could go straight to the double run . I have PMd you my address .
I found my length of this stuff and have cut it into 4*2.5m lengths... then twisted 2 together and then 4 together.... it only gives me 1 speaker cable once I get it terminated and sheathed, so Ive ordered an other length and will make a pair of doubled up, sheathed and going to use my nice nakamichi plugs/ will take a set off another cable as I only have 4 left
will let you know how it goes mate
I will say this for it, it sure takes a twist well:eek:
I found my length of this stuff and have cut it into 4*2.5m lengths... then twisted 2 together and then 4 together.... it only gives me 1 speaker cable once I get it terminated and sheathed, so Ive ordered an other length and will make a pair of doubled up, sheathed and going to use my nice nakamichi plugs/ will take a set off another cable as I only have 4 left
will let you know how it goes mate
I will say this for it, it sure takes a twist well:eek:
When the second length came it turned out it wasnt the same at all:doh: so ordered yet anothet length which hopefully will be here soon... Becoming an expensive trial.lol. so need to start again:D. Its all Brians fault
Thats one made and just needing plugs etc
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/26/075d0678253f3555ef2702af406c323f.jpg
brian2957
26-11-2015, 14:44
When the second length came it turned out it wasnt the same at all:doh: so ordered yet anothet length which hopefully will be here soon... Becoming an expensive trial.lol. so need to start again:D. Its all Brians fault
Hah! Cheeky boy :lol: This makes fantastic speaker cable . Well worth the effort Grant . The wire pictured looks like the stuff I have .
Hah! Cheeky boy :lol: This makes fantastic speaker cable . Well worth the effort Grant . The wire pictured looks like the stuff I have .
How did you finish yours Brian? and how does it sound mate? Ive got the other length and enough bits n bobs to make a set up; was also going to make up a shotgun van damme set for a trial too. Just need to get some weather where I can get out and do it....maybe I need to set myself up inside lol...
brian2957
30-11-2015, 22:31
I just doubled it up and terminated it via grubscrews into banana plugs mate . Just finished it off with some heatshrink . I've been using it for a few days now and it will probably be staying put in my system :D
I just doubled it up and terminated it via grubscrews into banana plugs mate . Just finished it off with some heatshrink . I've been using it for a few days now and it will probably be staying put in my system :D
Nice one... Looking forward to it getting finished now:)
hope you made them blindfold;)
brian2957
30-11-2015, 23:00
Blindfold :scratch:
Better than the talk 3 then?
wee tee cee
01-12-2015, 17:20
Spill the beans Brian!!!
Ive been mucking about with speaker wire....the bog stock van damme 2.5mm blue stuff with the 57s and temple mono blocks just sounds right to me. Will get my talk 3 loaners back and give them a whirl.
TQ BLACK sounds awfull in this set up!!!
buy the stuff that conducts electricity and put your money to buying better equipment or a holiday xx
Arkless Electronics
07-12-2015, 19:03
I've just junked an old Flymo Keven. I could rescue the nice orange cable from the dechetterie for you if you want:eyebrows:
I remember Quad using just that to demonstrate the ESL63's when they first came out!
Thankfully we've made some progress since then! :eyebrows:
Marco.
I just doubled it up and terminated it via grubscrews into banana plugs mate . Just finished it off with some heatshrink . I've been using it for a few days now and it will probably be staying put in my system :D
hi brian,how does the cable sound? id like to try this,im using shotgun van damme ofc at the moment.
Ive got some in the make sort of speak Jamie. its nice stiff cable but you need a fair amount. Brian says its fabulous sounding, so I must get mine finished
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/10/de1b11ab7311bd0edca7b5588c4042e8.jpg
cheers grant,so whats the deal? if you need to make a 3 meter run is it a case if using 4 3 meter lengths twisted together?
do you use a cordless drill to do the twist or is it done by hand?
id like to give it a try but a bit un sure of how you go about it.
cheers grant,so whats the deal? if you need to make a 3 meter run is it a case if using 4 3 meter lengths twisted together?
do you use a cordless drill to do the twist or is it done by hand?
id like to give it a try but a bit un sure of how you go about it.
yes, but per speaker as its single core; also if your twisting you will lose a little in length
brian2957
10-12-2015, 19:02
IMO this cable is excellent in all areas Jamie . I've had it in my system for a couple of weeks now and it's going nowhere . I use 2 runs per channel , so for a 3m set you would need 24m of the cable . I braided it today and I believe that it was worth the effort . Twisting is also perfectly acceptable . You do loose a little from the total length if you do either , as Grant says , so take this into consideration when ordering the cable . The Ebay seller will sell you any length you want , just send him a message . What length of cables are you making up as the braiding process is a right PITA .
Or do as Brian did, and get your Houseboy to look after your braiding needs.
IMO this cable is excellent in all areas Jamie . I've had it in my system for a couple of weeks now and it's going nowhere . I use 2 runs per channel , so for a 3m set you would need 24m of the cable . I braided it today and I believe that it was worth the effort . Twisting is also perfectly acceptable . You do loose a little from the total length if you do either , as Grant says , so take this into consideration when ordering the cable . The Ebay seller will sell you any length you want , just send him a message . What length of cables are you making up as the braiding process is a right PITA .
brian2957
10-12-2015, 20:41
No houseboy mate , you applying for the job . Me and Grant can share you :lol:
cheers grant,so whats the deal? if you need to make a 3 meter run is it a case if using 4 3 meter lengths twisted together?
do you use a cordless drill to do the twist or is it done by hand?
id like to give it a try but a bit un sure of how you go about it.
I did first one by machine ; yes a drill but tbh I think doing it by hand would have been better and will do it that way on second run...just realised Ive only done one so far.:doh:
How did you find the shotgun van damme blue?
Audio Advent
11-12-2015, 19:17
What length of cables are you making up as the braiding process is a right PITA .
You COULD do it mechanically if doing enough of it.. Just need to make a couple of crosses which interlock like cogs and at the ends of the cross something to hold the wire so that as one 'cog' turns the other, so the wires cross over each other. That's just an instant moving picture in my head and might need a tweek to get it working properly..
Audio Advent
11-12-2015, 19:19
I did first one by machine ; yes a drill but tbh I think doing it by hand would have been better and will do it that way on second run...just realised Ive only done one so far.:doh:
How did you find the shotgun van damme blue?
I wonder if the key to making it work well is actually holding the ends further apart at the drill end.
I have all these images in my head from watching some late night open university program about rope making when I should have been getting to sleep for school the next day - problem/benefit of a tv in a teenager's bedroom.
brian2957
11-12-2015, 19:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ8ZrkMcnKU :D
Bunch of fairy's....
do this...proper man braiding, and by hand too.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/jpg/triplet_1.jpg
mmm, Mine's pink ducky, what's yours?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Nrp4pFmeL._SL1066_.jpg
brian2957
11-12-2015, 20:02
mmm, Mine's pink ducky, what's yours?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Nrp4pFmeL._SL1066_.jpg
Here ! that might work :) I'm off upstairs to have a rake about , I'm sure I saw something like that upstairs . I thought it was an implement of torture :eek:
Here ! that might work :) I'm off upstairs to have a rake about , I'm sure I saw something like that upstairs . I thought it was an implement of torture :eek:
Its in your sock drawer Brian...
Its in your sock drawer Brian...:lol::lol::lol::lol:
brian2957
11-12-2015, 20:37
Nah mate , she binned it . Said it didn't work on hair :rolleyes:
Bunch of fairy's....
do this...proper man braiding, and by hand too.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/jpg/triplet_1.jpg
D'ye braid yur baw hair, too? :D
Marco.
brian2957
11-12-2015, 22:17
Its in your sock drawer Brian...
You been raking through my smalls BTW :ner:
Last time I let you go upstairs yourself :lol:
Audio Advent
12-12-2015, 02:42
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ8ZrkMcnKU :D
:eek: very nice mechanism! I had the movement right in my head but not the swapping over bit..
Audio Advent
12-12-2015, 02:44
Bunch of fairy's....
do this...proper man braiding, and by hand too.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/jpg/triplet_1.jpg
Pah, that's the same braiding but just with two wires of cat5 at once.
Got one cable finished and started the second; doing all the twisting and taping. got a bit chilled out there; its colder than I thought lol
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/12/03b077f0878cc7614214cfdb635ddc1a.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/12/d5a09650b958a6fc1de8ba9b5a0d10b1.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/12/763b8e7a25221f6883f43d9c67185dd3.jpg
[QUOTE=struth;710878]mmm, Mine's pink ducky, what's yours?
Ducky! now there's a name i haven't heard since the 70's :)
brian2957
12-12-2015, 17:43
Got one cable finished and started the second; doing all the twisting and taping. got a bit chilled out there; its colder than I thought lol
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/12/03b077f0878cc7614214cfdb635ddc1a.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/12/d5a09650b958a6fc1de8ba9b5a0d10b1.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/12/763b8e7a25221f6883f43d9c67185dd3.jpg
Looking good mate , well worth the effort in my system . I haven't got round to covering mine with braid yet , too busy enjoying the music .
Have a dram to heat yersel up .:)
could have been tidier tbh but not as dexterous these days. I'm not at your level of work, but they should do ok and lets face it they aint really seen much.... got lasagne and chips in oven, so that'll put a heat in me. have a glass of vintage Port wine to wash it down....not opening a bottle of vino just for me....lol thats why Ive go so much left; wish I could do that with bourbon :nono:
brian2957
12-12-2015, 18:09
Hah ! You haven't seen my attempts at cable braiding Grant :lol:
Enjoy your dinner mate , a glass or two of nice port sounds just the job :)
Got one cable finished and started the second; doing all the twisting and taping. got a bit chilled out there; its colder than I thought lol
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/12/03b077f0878cc7614214cfdb635ddc1a.jpg
Nice job Grant, sure they will sound great too. :)
Arkless Electronics
12-12-2015, 18:31
Will I notice a difference? = Very probably.
Is there a difference? = No.
:ner:
Arkless Electronics
12-12-2015, 18:34
:D
brian2957
12-12-2015, 18:34
:D:ner: O ye of little faith :D
Nice job Grant, sure they will sound great too. :)
Ive got some nice shrink on order so may top them off with this to improve the look. also keep people from finding my secret coating inside:D
walpurgis
12-12-2015, 19:00
Ive got some nice shrink on order so may top them off with this to improve the look. also keep people from finding my secret coating inside:D
It's Marmite. I'll bet! ;)
It's Marmite. I'll bet! ;)
close :D
brian2957
12-12-2015, 19:06
I'm scared to ask :lol:
Finished mine... :eyebrows: As ive finished a week or so before xmas i will call them white narcissus xmas cables:scratch: hmm just awaiting the wee white van to take me away[emoji3]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151216/dd2e2c8086b74bf257f8d5963496d858.jpg
Fisual plugs by way too.....these cables aint cheap to make by way
brian2957
16-12-2015, 16:01
Looking good Grant . First impressions ?
Looking good Grant . First impressions ?
Not had chance to try them yet Brian...and just going out. Literally just finished doing them...think i melted a bit of my old cd player while i was shrinking..damned gun is big and i think nozzle must have touched fascia...bugger...lol
Ive marked them and gonna use them directional for the hell of it
After a bit of mucking about and finding one connection not up to standard ive redone them and got it in...1st immpressions are VERY favourable.
Make that very very very favourable..:D
cool ! just so im clear,this is the cable you used yes? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301659644883?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Yes thats it. Wired double run per connection
He does different lengths.
Reckon mine cost me about 55 quid all in to make
just finished making mine up,boy my fingers are sore!
first impressions are it's bloody damn good!
well worth a punt for the money.
cheers Grant and Brian for the advice :cool:
still loving these cables,i unbraided mine and i swear they sound better!
im tempted to try 3 runs per input :)
unfairlane
17-05-2016, 10:03
still loving these cables,i unbraided mine and i swear they sound better!
im tempted to try 3 runs per input :)
I used to run four 12awg pr run to the woofers way back thinkin I was overdoing. Then a friend (using the same config) introduced me to a set of 3x9awg solid core (+12awg to the tops). Oboy what a slam. Like getting a new amp. Tryed even 1x7awg later but it didn`t outplay 4x9awg pr run for woofers. Pure copper, no plating here. Needs a short hour of loud burn-in. And you need good terminals..
thanks :)
ive now got some nva ls5 on its way to try.
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