View Full Version : B&W DM16
Geoff101
08-11-2015, 17:54
These delicate little floor standers have found their way into the house today:
http://www.g32.co.uk/images/DM16.JPG
Pictured as they arrived (filthy and a bit scratched).
For comparison, there's a normal sized pair of speakers behind them.
They are quite good though. Comfortably the best pair of B&Ws that I've heard but that's not saying much since I've never heard any of the 800 series or any posh modern ones. I like them much more than the similar age DM1400 that I had.
Lots of detail but not harsh. They have reasonable depth but despite their size, they don't have a bass heavy sound.
I've cleaned them now and I'll be trying to rejuvenate the veneer a bit in the coming weeks. I think they are supposed to be walnut
Anyone else any experience of them?
dantheman91
08-11-2015, 18:23
A friend of my dad had a pair for years & years he only recently sold them after years of good use. He used to say they dont like digital due to the analogue circuitry in the xovers? Interesting set though their a rare thing today they dont often come on the market but im sure their fetching good readies.:)
very nice on the eye these,i like them.
Geoff101
08-11-2015, 20:39
Some better pictures after a wipe over:
http://www.g32.co.uk/images/DM16_2.JPG
http://www.g32.co.uk/images/DM16_3.JPG
http://www.g32.co.uk/images/DM16_4.JPG
They look factory fresh. What's the sound like?
Look in good nick Geoff... was a pair on the bay not that long ago
Geoff101
09-11-2015, 19:11
They look factory fresh. What's the sound like?
The cabinets show a fair amount of wear (fading, scratches) but no real damage so they should be fairly easy to spruce up a bit.
I've not had much time listening to them yet but for something large and old, they are surprisingly neutral. They have depth and good slam due to the big bass driver but they don't artificially inflate the bass.
Some older B&Ws I've had have been all top and bottom with a lack of mid range but these seem more even.
I need a bit more time with them yet to see if I like them enough to hold onto.
Stereoholic
10-11-2015, 14:05
I am using DM4's for a month now, a speaker built in the 70's/80's, I understand. They sound mind-boggling fine. But then again, I haven't heard the Diamonds yet either! ;)
spendorman
10-11-2015, 14:12
I am using DM4's for a month now, a speaker built in the 70's/80's, I understand. They sound mind-boggling fine. But then again, I haven't heard the Diamonds yet either! ;)
I quite like DM4's, have several pairs, on a similar theme are Rogers LS3/6's, mine have been fitted with Rogers Export Monitor bass units. These a bit of a step up on the DM4, better midrange and bass.
southall-1998
10-11-2015, 14:35
Cool looking speakers. They look a tad like Zig and Zag :)
S.
Geoff101
10-11-2015, 18:33
After seeking advice from the folks who should know, I'm going to have the crossovers out and remove the protection circuit as it can be detrimental to sound quality I'm told.
Geoff101
10-11-2015, 22:44
Busy evening. APOC circuit disabled and relay bypassed. Subjective of course (I want to hear a difference after all that) but seems to have released the mid range a bit.
Kids are in bed now though so can't see if it's done much for the dynamics!
Busy evening. APOC circuit disabled and relay bypassed. Subjective of course (I want to hear a difference after all that) but seems to have released the mid range a bit.
Kids are in bed now though so can't see if it's done much for the dynamics!
Sure it will be subtle but be interesting to see what its done when you crank up the volume a tad Geoff.
Audio Advent
10-11-2015, 23:46
I've experience with some DM16s - damned heavy!! Can't really remember what they sounded like though to be honest. Love the design though. Weakness in the design can be the base (not the bass) - I remember mine became warped so they ended up leaning forward slightly, that was from damp-ish storage for a bit as is only veneered chipboard.
Audio Advent
10-11-2015, 23:53
I quite like DM4's, have several pairs, on a similar theme are Rogers LS3/6's, mine have been fitted with Rogers Export Monitor bass units. These a bit of a step up on the DM4, better midrange and bass.
You say fitted with EXport Monitor bass units... but actually those bass units were the units specific to that model late in it's run and it was the EXport Monitor which used them as a result. In other words it is the LS3/6 driver in the Export.
I read that on the internet, a small article by the guy who took over Rogers when they were faltering. One of Roger's problems was that the LS3/6's original driver was difficult to make correctly so they wasted so much money on duff drivers to meet the BBC spec, something to do with that white surround if I recall correctly ( I could search for the article again). So they went to Dalesford to manufacture a replacement to their design.
spendorman
12-11-2015, 19:39
You say fitted with EXport Monitor bass units... but actually those bass units were the units specific to that model late in it's run and it was the EXport Monitor which used them as a result. In other words it is the LS3/6 driver in the Export.
I read that on the internet, a small article by the guy who took over Rogers when they were faltering. One of Roger's problems was that the LS3/6's original driver was difficult to make correctly so they wasted so much money on duff drivers to meet the BBC spec, something to do with that white surround if I recall correctly ( I could search for the article again). So they went to Dalesford to manufacture a replacement to their design.
The early Rogers Export monitor appears to be identical to the LS3/6 except that it used a Dalesford Bextrene bass unit with a pressed steel chassis, instead of the Rogers LS3/6 Bextrene unit with a cast chassis.
The bass units in my LS3/6 failed, so I used the Dalesford ones.
My friend has early Export Monitors which I have inspected, the cabinets, crossovers and tweeters are identical to my LS3/6's.
Later Export Monitors had different cabinets, simplified crossovers, a different version of the Celestion HF1300, and often a KEF T27 instead of the Celestion HF2000.
I also have Spendor BC1 and BC2 speakers, which are sort of relatives.
Yes, the white surround, shrinking white surround, affected quite a few speakers, early DM4s, early BC1s, BC2s, some Audax units and more.
Audio Advent
13-11-2015, 17:03
The early Rogers Export monitor appears to be identical to the LS3/6 except that it used a Dalesford Bextrene bass unit with a pressed steel chassis, instead of the Rogers LS3/6 Bextrene unit with a cast chassis.
The bass units in my LS3/6 failed, so I used the Dalesford ones.
Thinking about it, I guess they couldn't have called them the LS3/6 without the BBC spec... A friend has a pair with Dalesfords and the have quickly printed "Export Monitor" paper stickers on the back with marks where the LS3/6 plaque would have been.
Here's that article: http://www.g4dcv.co.uk/ls35a/rogershistory.html
Seems it was the Studio 1 monitor which was more of a replacement to the LS3/6 because they felt the Dalesford wasn't as good as the LS3/6 driver and it took them a while to get hold of the cone tooling for the LS3/6 driver to then make an equivalent in house. I wonder how well a Studio 1 driver would work in the LS3/6?
Audio Advent
13-11-2015, 17:06
How are the DM16 drivers related to the 801 drivers of the time? Mid looks the same, bass driver too perhaps (or is it smaller?).
walpurgis
13-11-2015, 17:12
The DM23 are fairly close relatives. Pair on eBay if anybody is interested: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-W-DM23-GREAT-BRITISH-LOUDSPEAKERS-SUPERB-SOUND-/161886020744?hash=item25b128a488:g:WOkAAOSw~bFWQRA 0
Reputed to sound rather nice. Ported enclosure on these and DW200 (DM4) derived bass/mid unit.
The DM23 are fairly close relatives. Pair on eBay if anybody is interested: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-W-DM23-GREAT-BRITISH-LOUDSPEAKERS-SUPERB-SOUND-/161886020744?hash=item25b128a488:g:WOkAAOSw~bFWQRA 0
Reputed to sound rather nice. Ported enclosure on these and DW200 (DM4) derived bass/mid unit.
Please be wary when dealing with this seller as I bought some Keswick Audio speakers which contained all non-standard drivers (Sony ,Technics and some awful pro tweeters)
They may have been unaware but I somehow doubt it
spendorman
13-11-2015, 18:53
Please be wary when dealing with this seller as I bought some Keswick Audio speakers which contained all non-standard drivers (Sony ,Technics and some awful pro tweeters)
They may have been unaware but I somehow doubt it
Did you report your wrong drive units to the seller?
Those DM23 bass drivers look like paper coned units. If so, they certainly don't sound like the Bextrene DM4 bass units.
Unfortunately had the hifi in bits for a month or so (decorating) and it took me a further couple of weeks to discover the drivers didn't match the cut-outs behind them, also the seller doesn't bother with descriptions (google for descriptions) so didn't see much point in pursuing it further and took it on the chin.
But as in the original photos they had obviously just been touched up with satin black(standing on black painted cardboard) and the internal cables were joined with "choccy blocks", I assume the seller was aware of the nature of the units
Just trying to prevent anyone from making the same stupid mistake as me
Subsequently gave them to a friend who is surprisingly pleased with them
spendorman
13-11-2015, 19:50
Unfortunately had the hifi in bits for a month or so (decorating) and it took me a further couple of weeks to discover the drivers didn't match the cut-outs behind them, also the seller doesn't bother with descriptions (google for descriptions) so didn't see much point in pursuing it further and took it on the chin.
But as in the original photos they had obviously just been touched up with satin black(standing on black painted cardboard) and the internal cables were joined with "choccy blocks", I assume the seller was aware of the nature of the units
Just trying to prevent anyone from making the same stupid mistake as me
Subsequently gave them to a friend who is surprisingly pleased with them
Well, yes I see your dilemma, complaining after six weeks or so does not look good, anyway, your friend was pleased with them, so that's good.
Well, yes I see your dilemma, complaining after six weeks or so does not look good, anyway, your friend was pleased with them, so that's good.
Well my conscience wouldn't allow me to sell them on and the house is rather full of cabs so they had to go somewhere
Audio Advent
13-11-2015, 22:55
The DM23 are fairly close relatives. Pair on eBay if anybody is interested: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-W-DM23-GREAT-BRITISH-LOUDSPEAKERS-SUPERB-SOUND-/161886020744?hash=item25b128a488:g:WOkAAOSw~bFWQRA 0
Reputed to sound rather nice. Ported enclosure on these and DW200 (DM4) derived bass/mid unit.
I'm not so sure they are close other than era - certainly not close in terms of build quality to the DM16s.
Audio Advent
13-11-2015, 22:59
The DM23 are fairly close relatives. Pair on eBay if anybody is interested: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-W-DM23-GREAT-BRITISH-LOUDSPEAKERS-SUPERB-SOUND-/161886020744?hash=item25b128a488:g:WOkAAOSw~bFWQRA 0
Reputed to sound rather nice. Ported enclosure on these and DW200 (DM4) derived bass/mid unit.
Not that there is anything wrong with buying and selling on for profit, these were bought by the seller for £18 (same serial numbers): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-W-DM23-HiFi-Speakers-/151842732420
That shows how you can get them for cheaper if it's convenient to do so (they were pick up only previously).
Geoff101
18-11-2015, 09:27
How are the DM16 drivers related to the 801 drivers of the time? Mid looks the same, bass driver too perhaps (or is it smaller?).
I can't speak for the 801, but the DM16 uses the following drivers according to the manual:
Tweeter - TW26
Mid - MK100/16
Bass - BW250
There appear to be some similarities in the crossover (at least with the early APOC equipped 801) such as having a whacking great 1000uF capacitor in series with the bass driver.
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