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View Full Version : Frank Spencer moment - a warning



Gazjam
07-10-2009, 22:09
A series of stupid choices by me meant I have lost all the Data on my 1TB external hard drive.
Had I backed the data up? RECENTLY I mean?
Uhm.......


#1
Sitting my subwoofer on top of my PC case under the desk and NOT on the floor - bad idea.

#2
Sitting my external USB Hard drive on the floor under thedesk...BESIDE my PC case - bad idea.


As I'm running two PCs, I just swapped the 3.5mm audio from either PC into the socket on the front of my subwoofer, (Aego 2 speaker system)
Last night, whilst swapping over Audio cables between PCs I wasnt particularly watching what I was doing and I accidently tipped my Subwoofer off the top of my PC case and onto the floor.

Or rather...onto my hard drive.

Realised after this it was making Chug Chug Chug noises which you DONT want to hear, I spent hours last night tracking down ideas online to fix it, but none worked.
I tried data recovery software, repairing the partition table - the works.
It rattled when I picked it up - not a good thing.
Its knackered - gone.

The drive was used for my Music collection in Flac, backups of applications, pictures and various stuff I had downloaded from Bittorrent.
I had backed up a couple of months ago, so all I've lost really is Stuff I'd downloaded from Bittorrent - which was a lot to be honest, but nothing I cant get back.

Thing is there was a lot of stuff on there that I CANT remember what it was, so I reckon if I cant remember it it cant be that important.

Everything else (INCLUDING 800GB of Flac!!) was backed up somewhere else.

I had meant to back up recently but I thought it could wait - not important.

Wish I had now.

Basically my Squeezebox/Dac source can only be used for online stuff and not my Flacs until I can get a replacement external HDD, but its not the end of the world.
Could have been a LOT worse - could have lost all my music
but thats me had my warning.
Never again.

Stratmangler
07-10-2009, 22:18
Hi Gaz

Thanks for recounting your tale of woe to us all. I'm sorry for you that it had to happen at all. However, I second your wish that everyone learns from your mistakes and mishaps, and backs their data up.

Chris:(:(

Stratmangler
07-10-2009, 22:19
Well go on then, put the original post back - it makes a very odd reading thread otherwise.

Chris;)

Gazjam
07-10-2009, 22:24
Yeay Chris, thats why I posted it here.

So other folks could think - that Guy's a diddy!
Then realise they hadn't done it either! :)

Stratmangler
07-10-2009, 22:32
There is a possibilityof browser issues occurring here Gaz, 'cos your original post has disappeared as far as I can see. I've seen it, and it's now gone. Saw it just before your double post comment. It's not here now, at least I cannot see it with Firefox 3.summat .

Chris;)

Gazjam
07-10-2009, 22:59
Done!

The Vinyl Adventure
07-10-2009, 23:12
if it an external hdd there is a small chance the damage has been done to the usb interface. inside the case there is a standard hdd with more than likely either standard sata or ide conection. take it out the case and mount it directly in your pc case. if this doesnt work then there are companies who can extract the disks them selves and read them in a sealed environment.

The Vinyl Adventure
07-10-2009, 23:13
p.s i recently lost 5 years worth of old photos due to a failed hdd and failed on line back up service (carbonite are shite)

i now have 2 1tb drives and use a peice of back up softwear to sync one with the other on a sheduled weekly basis

Gazjam
07-10-2009, 23:25
Cheers for that Hamish,

Its not cost effective to pay to get the data back - What I can remember being on there I can probably get back, and what I cant remember couldn't have been that important anyway.

Personal stuff (Photos, docs etc) all copied elsewhere, and 99% of the music on there (800odd gig!) is also backed up elsewhere, albeit a 2 month old backup, so some stuff lost.

Major PITA is that my Squeezebox is resigned to Online duties only till I can pick up and set up another external HDD.

Ah well...

Oh, your backup solution sounds good Hamish, what Software is it?
Ta.

twelvebears
08-10-2009, 05:43
If it's got a rattle, it's either a shattered platter, in which case it's Ronnied, it the read had which has snapped off, in which case the data COULD be recovered.

BUT

A friend had to get a data recover company to rescue some irriplacable (and not backed up) pics of his baby nephew for a dead drive and the cost?

£500!!

And that was one of the better prices.....

NRG
08-10-2009, 06:25
Well in my 25+ years working in the disk drive and computer storage industry I've yet to see or hear of a platter being smashed let alone a head being ripped off ;) Most likely you've suffered a head crash and the head has bounced on the platter surface damaging it and the surface plus knocking it out of alignment. The chug-chug-chug noise is the sound of the drive seeking across the platter surface....

Gazjam
08-10-2009, 07:38
So that chugging sounds the Death Rattle really?

NRG
08-10-2009, 08:37
'Fraid so, no off the shelf s/w is going to fix a hardware failure, sorry.

Themis
08-10-2009, 09:35
'Fraid so, no off the shelf s/w is going to fix a hardware failure, sorry.
Same opinion here.

Anyway, back to the theory:
Collections of critical data need (basically) two/three things :
1. Prevent data lost (of any type) : Being able to restore some (or any) data lost or corrupted whatever the condition.
2. Assure service availability (well, this depends on each one's needs) : this means for how long (after certain data losses) can the data remain unreachable.

When we consider point #1, there's another question to ask ourselves: what is the maximum interval where data loss is "acceptable".
For instance:
1a. The maximum acceptable data loss interval is two days (I accept to lose any update made during the last 48 hours)
1b. No data loss is acceptable. (because these data exist only in one copy).

Possible causes of data loss (we'll say "disasters"):
A. Partial hardware failure (single HDD failure, for instance)
B. Global hardware failure (all the data disks are accidentally destroyed, for instance).
C. User error (accidental data replacement/deletion)

Two/three different mechanisms exist:
-- Normal backup/restore.
This addresses point #1. The delay of #1a depends on the backup interval.
It prevents disasters A, (partially) B and C (if a backup of the data exists)
If disaster B needs to be globally prevented, then the backup media should be physically located elsewhere (in another house, for instance).

-- RAID (hardware or software)
This addresses point #2 and partially #1.
It prevents disaster A.

-- Operating systems
Some operating systems, allow preventing disaster C (this is the case of late windows versions) by keeping a copy of (about) 10 latest versions of all data.
Check your operating system for this feature.

webby
08-10-2009, 09:46
I can recommend the Western Digital MyBook drives Gary.

ZebuTheOxen
08-10-2009, 10:12
The only real way to safely store data is to have it in (relatively) remote locations.

I have my main computer, a Popcorn Hour A-110 (Waiting on the C200) in the living room then a Windows Home Server (5TB at the moment, about 40% full) upstairs.

All important documents (Insurance, important work emails etc.) are r-synced to a geographically remote server.

The chugging sound is a head crash, similar to the 'IBM Deathstar' hard drives of the early 00's. No way back unfortunately. You may be able to recover something, but if the substrate is damaged it's unsalvagable without some very expensive equipment and expertise.
Sounds like the rare earth magnet has degraded and no longer moves the armature as speedily as it should.

I've also never encountered a shattered platter in the real world, though there are plenty of horror stories on the net ;)

The Vinyl Adventure
08-10-2009, 11:04
Cheers for that Hamish,

Its not cost effective to pay to get the data back - What I can remember being on there I can probably get back, and what I cant remember couldn't have been that important anyway.

Personal stuff (Photos, docs etc) all copied elsewhere, and 99% of the music on there (800odd gig!) is also backed up elsewhere, albeit a 2 month old backup, so some stuff lost.

Major PITA is that my Squeezebox is resigned to Online duties only till I can pick up and set up another external HDD.

Ah well...

Oh, your backup solution sounds good Hamish, what Software is it?
Ta.


its called "syncback" - a guy who i am in business with did a good bit of research (after he had a near miss), he tried a lot of expensive softwear but still found the free version of this to be the best
http://www.2brightsparks.com/downloads.html#freeware
aparently the pro version does some pretty nifty stuff but i for one dont need it
very self explanitory too!

there is a lot of nay-saying going on here, and it might well be right! but you have nothing to loose by cracking that box open and plonking the drive directly inside your computer. usb is a slower interface than ide or sata so you might find something happens when its plugged directly. im sure all these people are correct in what they say.... but my hdd chugged and wouldnt let me do anything via usb... but it let me retrive some stuff pluged directly!! not all of it... but some!
it should also be pointed out that the method i have just mentioned is the first thing any data recovery company would do using the air tight room!

also, some data is priceless, so £500 is cheep - photos/letters of passed relatives for eg...

last thing... if you have decent business insurance, it is likely that data recovery i coverd on that. it might even be the case for home contents... it costs nothing to ask!!!

Jason P
08-10-2009, 11:50
I'm with Hamish on this one, with an added thing - some people have had sucess in placing said drive in the freezer (in a sealed bag) for a few hours before connecting it up. For some reason this can have an effect on the drive and render dead drives live for a while - but this is only a stopgap and you need to copy any data off ASAP if the drive rescusitates!!

Just my 2pth!

Jason

Gazjam
08-10-2009, 22:00
Tried the Freezer trick: No dice.
Drive not being read in the Bios, nevermind Windows.

Ah well, you live and learn. :(

Glad I have a two month old backup, think I'd break down crying if I lost 800odd Gig of my music in Flac.

Gary's new Mantra: Backup,Backup,Backup! :)

Themis
08-10-2009, 22:11
Gary's new Mantra: Backup,Backup,Backup! :)
I know it's of no help, but I once spent three weekends ripping/tagging on my first crash (600 albums). :( I was glad when it was over, believe me.

Peter Stockwell
09-10-2009, 07:15
On my mac, I have my music files on an external drive, and another external drive for backup.

The backup drive is partitioned into 3 logical drives, one for document backups, one for system backups, and one for media file backup.

I use "Time machine" for document backups, SuperDuper for System and mediafile backups. I schedule sytem and mediafile backups for alternate days.

I used to have a Drobo to protect against mediafile damage, but I feel it's overkill, and the way I have things organised now is about the right size for my 600 or so albums.

Gazjam
09-10-2009, 07:25
Cheers Peter,
I had my Media on the external HDD and a backup on an internal drive on my other (non music server) PC.

Think though the idea of two external HDDs is a beter idea though, as I can store one at another location.

Paranoid? Overkill?

Would have said so, but not after it happens to you.
Still as I said, have a two month old backup, so not the END of the world, just a pain in the as I guess....

electric beach
09-10-2009, 11:55
I have a radical solution!

Put each album seperately onto a CD! You can even use one of those new-fangled players to listen directly!! I keep the original as a library and use a copy disc day to day, replacing as necessary. :doh:

Sounds like something from Viz - but it works!!! :scratch:

twelvebears
09-10-2009, 12:00
The only real way to safely store data is to have it in (relatively) remote locations.

I've also never encountered a shattered platter in the real world, though there are plenty of horror stories on the net ;)

M smashed platter/head possibility is rather unlikely, but then I don't know how big Gazjam's sub is! :)

As for data protection, multiple drives help with drive failure, but possibly not if the drives are in the same device and Frank drops a sub on your head! In that case, only back-up at a safe difference saves the day.

For me, my solution is a Drobo in a falling-sub-free location, with REALLY irreplacable stuff (i.e. photos) stored on-line.

Personally I can't wait until bandwidth and storgage cost allow EVERYTHING to be kept the 'cloud' rather than locally.

Gazjam
09-10-2009, 13:14
I have a radical solution!

Put each album seperately onto a CD! You can even use one of those new-fangled players to listen directly!! I keep the original as a library and use a copy disc day to day, replacing as necessary. :doh:

Sounds like something from Viz - but it works!!! :scratch:

You win £5 :)

Here,
Irony of ironies....
I sold off most of my CDs and bought amongst other things....

An Aego 2 speaker and subwoofer set for the PC! :doh:


(Round, Round, Round we go....) :)

Gazjam
09-10-2009, 13:15
M smashed platter/head possibility is rather unlikely, but then I don't know how big Gazjam's sub is! :)

As for data protection, multiple drives help with drive failure, but possibly not if the drives are in the same device and Frank drops a sub on your head! In that case, only back-up at a safe difference saves the day.

For me, my solution is a Drobo in a falling-sub-free location, with REALLY irreplacable stuff (i.e. photos) stored on-line.

Personally I can't wait until bandwidth and storgage cost allow EVERYTHING to be kept the 'cloud' rather than locally.


Agreed about the cloud.
But would you want your private data stored in the ether somewhere?
(I wouldnt)

twelvebears
09-10-2009, 14:01
Agreed about the cloud.
But would you want your private data stored in the ether somewhere?
(I wouldnt)

Well it depends if you talking from a 'Big Brother' or 'could they lose it?' perspective?

As mine is media rather than personal data and plans for world domination, I'd be more concerned about the latter than the former, but seriously, chances of a major online storage provider losing all your data?

I'd say that was a lot lower that the chances of losing it in my own home due to fire, flood, theft, cat/child or flying subwoofer.

The Vinyl Adventure
09-10-2009, 14:25
I have a radical solution!

Put each album seperately onto a CD! You can even use one of those new-fangled players to listen directly!! I keep the original as a library and use a copy disc day to day, replacing as necessary. :doh:

Sounds like something from Viz - but it works!!! :scratch:

C.......D...... never heard of it
FLAC F.....L.....A.....C..... FLAC ... is that what you mean? ... im confused ;););)

ZebuTheOxen
09-10-2009, 15:44
'The cloud' is fine for another point of backup, but even Google File System has it's flaws.
Given the size, complexity and nature of their system, it's perfectly possible for otherwise dormant data to drop off their system without much notice if they should have a particularly unfortunate pattern of failures.

If data is important, keep it in 2 places.
If data is irreplacable, keep it in 3 places. (More is good)

Gazjam
09-10-2009, 16:26
Well it depends if you talking from a 'Big Brother' or 'could they lose it?' perspective?

As mine is media rather than personal data and plans for world domination, I'd be more concerned about the latter than the former, but seriously, chances of a major online storage provider losing all your data?

I'd say that was a lot lower that the chances of losing it in my own home due to fire, flood, theft, cat/child or flying subwoofer.



...or sheer idiocy
(see original post) :doh: :)

Gazjam
09-10-2009, 16:28
'The cloud' is fine for another point of backup, but even Google File System has it's flaws.
Given the size, complexity and nature of their system, it's perfectly possible for otherwise dormant data to drop off their system without much notice if they should have a particularly unfortunate pattern of failures.

If data is important, keep it in 2 places.
If data is irreplacable, keep it in 3 places. (More is good)


Or just dont care?
well..its an option, right? :scratch:

Peter Galbavy
10-10-2009, 06:58
Read all the T&Cs of all the online backup providers. Even the ones you pay for are never ever ever responsible for your data. If it's lost it's hard luck. They excuse themselves from any responsibility at all. Ever.

I can't wait for these T&Cs to be tested in a UK/EU court.

In the meantime, I tend to keep 2 copies of stuff like music *plus* the original CD etc. and 3 copies of, as was said above, irreplacable stuff like digital photos. Sadly, owing to a lack of luck on my part, the "offsite" copy is currently onsite. Oops.

MartinT
12-10-2009, 14:30
Gaz

One more thing to think about for the future is that a subwoofer has a bloody great magnet in it. I would *never* locate a speaker anywhere near my PC or external drive. After a few weeks of rotation close to a magnetic field that simulates an erase signal when music is running through it, you would start getting dropouts and eventual disk failure. Be warned!

Gazjam
12-10-2009, 15:40
Shit......

Noted. Thanks,

The Vinyl Adventure
12-10-2009, 17:05
Shit......

Noted. Thanks,

ditto

Alex_UK
12-10-2009, 17:24
Someone bought me one of those executive toys with a magnetic base and a load of ball bearings once, and I put it on top of my monitor (at work - a CRT one at the time) - holy crap, the mess it made of the screen! Sucked all the colour out of the center top 3rd and made it go pink and green - luckily it was just the screen I stood it on! Also made the mistake once of putting non-shielded speakers right next to a TV... So Martin is to be thanked for reminding us of this! (I've just moved the external hard drive in the study a bit further away from the speakers...)

Barry
12-10-2009, 19:15
Gary,

I've only just noticed this thread and read of your unfortunate accident - What a bugger!

If it is of any help, I can 'rip and burn' the CDs you sold me. Let me know if you want me to do this for you.

Regards

The Vinyl Adventure
12-10-2009, 19:34
I used to have a proper old tv when I was a kid ... Was way ahead of it's time though one of the big metal buttons was labled itv2 (I think it must have pre dated channel 4) ... Anyway when me dad bought me a new one for Xmas after noticing the effect of putting a speaker next to it I decided to wave a really massive magnet in front ofthe screen... This was before I wa told it was being passes on to a family freind... I then had to spend about an hour waving the magnet around near the screen to try and remove the multi-colourd circles I had made ... It was very pretty but it did get very frustrating after a while! I can't really remember what happened in the end but I'm fairly certain I got away with it! Since then I have been more careful... But it still never crossed my mind what damage I could be doing to my hdds having then near my speakers... I wonder now if tat is why mine recently went a bit doolaly

Gazjam
13-10-2009, 09:33
Gary,

I've only just noticed this thread and read of your unfortunate accident - What a bugger!

If it is of any help, I can 'rip and burn' the CDs you sold me. Let me know if you want me to do this for you.

Regards


Thanks for that Barry, but fortunately I have the ones I sold on backed up elsewhere...so phew!
(I went to access the spreadsheet with the CD Sale data on it, items sold, contact info, dates ammounts etc......and I realised my current version was on that external HDD.)
My two month old backup came into play there.

I think this is the first of many things I will realise I've lost that I've forgot about about. :(
Ah well. Nobody lost a leg so onwards and upwards.

Thanks for the offer though Barry, cheers! :)

Peter Galbavy
13-10-2009, 11:55
Just to followup my "don't trust online backup" warning, recent events seem to agree with me:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8303952.stm

... big FAIL.

Gazjam
13-10-2009, 16:31
Epic fail.

I'm putting my data in a shoebox under my bed from now on. :)

The Grand Wazoo
13-10-2009, 17:50
So what, can I ask, do folks think is a safe distance to keep speakers away from hard drives? Of course I understand that there are speaker magnets & there are speaker magnets..............

Alex_UK
13-10-2009, 18:27
and there are also magnetically shielded speaker magnets - most stuff from the last 10-15 years or so, I would guess will be "AV friendly" and therefore "safe" - but anything vintage is likely to be risky. (I would guess trying a pin next to the cabinet would give some indication?) I've no scientific evidence, but a reasonably "normal" speaker would be fine a foot or so away? - this is just a guess, I don't have an unshielded speaker (or large magnet) to play with and test...

Peter Stockwell
17-10-2009, 12:44
Not exactly a Frank Spencer moment, but my computer (mac mini duo) died this morning. Lucky all my data is backed up on external drives!

Themis
17-10-2009, 17:03
A pity. :( It died, perhaps, but, unless there is a HD failure, the data is probably still there...

Peter Stockwell
17-10-2009, 19:45
A pity. :( It died, perhaps, but, unless there is a HD failure, the data is probably still there...

False alarm, It wouldn't restart, but a trip to the shop fixed it. Probably needed a PMU reset. It's been running sice I turned it back on this afternoon

Themis
17-10-2009, 21:29
False alarm, It wouldn't restart, but a trip to the shop fixed it. Probably needed a PMU reset. It's been running sice I turned it back on this afternoon
Motherboard failure, probably: nothing very serious, it happens all the time. Glad it's ok. ;)

Soundhaspriority
19-10-2009, 17:32
1TB? That's painful. But I've been there. Many times. Tried every data recovery software in the book, which are often more trouble than they're worth, for the way they return your files in garbaged form. You have a physical problem with the drive, and though its tricky, I have successfully a couple of times successfully repaired hard drives when they went south on me. It's not for everyone, but if I had 1TB of data wrapped up in it, I would try everything. What worked for me in my case is getting a hold of the exact same model drive, then switching the controller, and gently booting into it, enough so that its data could be saved to another drive. Whether thats worth it all depends on how much the data is worth to you. A professional data recovery service will charge a lot, and I don't think there's any sure guarantees there either. Depends to what degree the disks may be physically damaged as well.


A series of stupid choices by me meant I have lost all the Data on my 1TB external hard drive.
Had I backed the data up? RECENTLY I mean?
Uhm.......


#1
Sitting my subwoofer on top of my PC case under the desk and NOT on the floor - bad idea.

#2
Sitting my external USB Hard drive on the floor under thedesk...BESIDE my PC case - bad idea.


As I'm running two PCs, I just swapped the 3.5mm audio from either PC into the socket on the front of my subwoofer, (Aego 2 speaker system)
Last night, whilst swapping over Audio cables between PCs I wasnt particularly watching what I was doing and I accidently tipped my Subwoofer off the top of my PC case and onto the floor.

Or rather...onto my hard drive.

Realised after this it was making Chug Chug Chug noises which you DONT want to hear, I spent hours last night tracking down ideas online to fix it, but none worked.
I tried data recovery software, repairing the partition table - the works.
It rattled when I picked it up - not a good thing.
Its knackered - gone.

The drive was used for my Music collection in Flac, backups of applications, pictures and various stuff I had downloaded from Bittorrent.
I had backed up a couple of months ago, so all I've lost really is Stuff I'd downloaded from Bittorrent - which was a lot to be honest, but nothing I cant get back.

Thing is there was a lot of stuff on there that I CANT remember what it was, so I reckon if I cant remember it it cant be that important.

Everything else (INCLUDING 800GB of Flac!!) was backed up somewhere else.

I had meant to back up recently but I thought it could wait - not important.

Wish I had now.

Basically my Squeezebox/Dac source can only be used for online stuff and not my Flacs until I can get a replacement external HDD, but its not the end of the world.
Could have been a LOT worse - could have lost all my music
but thats me had my warning.
Never again.