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Hi all, I have a question in regards of the YAMAHA NS 1000 M. I bought these speaker few weeks ago, they sound pretty good but my concern is about the woofers on booth speakers. basically the woofer don't have any kind of excursion During playback (they don't move forward and back like my previous PRO AC D15). BASS are pretty good on most genres i listen to just with some music they are a little boomy.
My question is; IS this normal for a closed speaker or the woofers should move forward and back like on my previous speakers?
Thanks in advance for you help. Regards
Light Dependant Resistor
15-10-2015, 14:07
Yamaha NS1000M are a sealed cabinet speaker where the
enclosure size has been designed to give sufficient low frequency response
A article here gives insight into frequency response http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Yamaha-NS1000.htm
I think Yamaha tried to get their speaker to be very even with frequency, the benchmark
which I am sure they were aware of being the Quad ESL57
The Japanese firm Stax being famous for electrostatic headphones, and also
electrostatic speakers. The ESL57 had a big influence on how speakers reproduce sound.
Other designs using floppier drivers like Gale 401 used what is called acoustic suspension
an invention of Edgar Villchur http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/recording.technology.history/villchur.html
and seen also in the AR brand of speaker, where the cloth surround rather than silly foam
drivers work very well. The cabinet size can then be smaller approximating the speaker size
where the AR7 gives very good low frequency response seemingly defying its cabinet size.
The Yamaha then is a classic speaker, and one that sounds great
and are highly sought after. On stands and well positioned with a
sufficient amplifier they will give great sound.
Cheers / Chris
They should move back and forwards otherwise they won't make any sound but you may not be able to see them moving back and forth. If you have got bass then they are moving even if you can't see it. Try something with deep bass - pipe organ or synth, you should be able to see a bit of travel then.
Perosnally I've always been suspicious of speakers where you can obviously see the cone travel, especially if the volume is not very high.
Arkless Electronics
15-10-2015, 17:10
It's fine. Not being ported you will not get the large excursions on vinyl due to subsonics. Being a 10" woofer they will move far less than a smaller one for a given amount of bass.
I have NS1000M speakers.
Just tested with Nitin Sawhney, Broken Skin.
This track has pretty powerful bass.
The center of the speaker was moving about 3-4 mm.
Hi all, I have a question in regards of the YAMAHA NS 1000 M. I bought these speaker few weeks ago, they sound pretty good but my concern is about the woofers on booth speakers. basically the woofer don't have any kind of excursion During playback (they don't move forward and back like my previous PRO AC D15). BASS are pretty good on most genres i listen to just with some music they are a little boomy.
My question is; IS this normal for a closed speaker or the woofers should move forward and back like on my previous speakers?
Thanks in advance for you help. Regards
While playing some music, very lightly touch the driver rubber surround for a second, if you feel vibration they are working fine, my Castles rarely move unless playing at concert levels with some heavy bass.
The bass can be be pretty good but quite lean if you are used to ported speakers.They were design for a smallish studio rather than a living room.
Of more concern for me was the lack of central image .A dumbbell shaped soundstage with plenty going on around each speaker but not much in between.
One of the most frustrating speakers I have used because they are great in many ways but that odd imaging always unsettled me.I even tried making a wave guide which helped a little bit.The NS1200s had the same issue.
StanleyB
16-10-2015, 06:39
Once I started to use my NS1000M to help me in the development of some of my designs I have come to question many of the things written by others about the apparent shortcomings of these speakers. One important thing I found out about the NS1000M is that they do need to be off the floor by at least 15cm if you want to get better stereo imaging. I have mine at about 25cm. You can then have them closer to the wall that way, instead of sticking out by 30cm or more as some do. The highly regarded stereo imaging of the Caiman MKII and Capella are not an accident. Without the NS1000M I doubt that I would have been able to pick up so accurately the minute changes in the sound with changes in component values and quality. The first effective use of the NS1000M was when I was experimenting with different brands of caps for the Gator PCB all those years ago.
It's fine. Not being ported you will not get the large excursions on vinyl due to subsonics. Being a 10" woofer they will move far less than a smaller one for a given amount of bass.
+1 - sealed boxes (infinite baffle) are significantly better damped in the bass than ported designs and the woofer will move less. However, the majority of that extra movement from ported speakers is not extra bass as it is at too low a frequency.
The stereo from my NS-1000Ms is genuinely excellent. There is a strong central image and when instruments (or sound effects) pan across the soundstage you can follow them very clearly. In fact they produce some of the best and most focussed stereo imagery I've ever heard (mine are on 12" stands and away from the rear wall by 24" or so) - tweeters to the outside edge.
StanleyB
16-10-2015, 08:16
- tweeters to the outside edge.
That's a very important point. The other point also worth noting is that the midrange and treble gain controls should be adjusted for best stereo image, instead of room correction.
Ah yes, funny you should mention that because I found precisely the same. I deleted the adjustable pots from my speakers and replaced them with fixed value resistors. Before I did this I experimented a lot with adjusting the pots and found that whilst they obviously altered the frequency response they also buggered around no end with the imagery (which I hadn't expected).
+1 - sealed boxes (infinite baffle) are significantly better damped in the bass than ported designs and the woofer will move less. However, the majority of that extra movement from ported speakers is not extra bass as it is at too low a frequency.
The stereo from my NS-1000Ms is genuinely excellent. There is a strong central image and when instruments (or sound effects) pan across the soundstage you can follow them very clearly. In fact they produce some of the best and most focussed stereo imagery I've ever heard (mine are on 12" stands and away from the rear wall by 24" or so) - tweeters to the outside edge.
The odd thing is I have sat in front of NS1000s and heard poor central image and depth and a long term owner could hear nothing wrong.My conclusion was that we just hear very differently.It is not just me though.Several friends have bought them and sold them on for this reason.I also recently read a review of Yamaha Suavo speakers [Hi Fi World from memory] in which these speakers were compared directly to the NS1000s and they stated that the Suavos had much better imaging.
Yeah, but read the Stereophile review of the NS1000M and they praise the imagery highly....
I think you mean imaging, Mark, as imagery is something else entirely ;)
Marco.
No, I'm happy with 'imagery' in this context:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/imagery
the formation of mental images, figures, or likenesses of things, or of such images collectively
Ok, if you're happy, that's fine. However, what you've cited has got little to do with the hi-fi definition of 'imaging', certainly as I know it.
Marco.
Hi all, I have a question in regards of the YAMAHA NS 1000 M. I bought these speaker few weeks ago, they sound pretty good but my concern is about the woofers on booth speakers. basically the woofer don't have any kind of excursion During playback (they don't move forward and back like my previous PRO AC D15). BASS are pretty good on most genres i listen to just with some music they are a little boomy.
My question is; IS this normal for a closed speaker or the woofers should move forward and back like on my previous speakers?
Thanks in advance for you help. Regards
What amp are you using?
I had to upgrade my amp and that, together with getting the speaker off the floor, cured the boomy unfocused bass.
Only just cought up with this thread.
You have to turn the wick up to a seriously loud level before there is any visible cone movement.
Just tried it on mine, so its normal, for the reasons given earlier. :)
First of all, some basic math:
The ProAc D15 have got a 6.5" bass/mid, that means it has got a surface of ca 212cm².
If it utilises an excursion of 10mm (+/-5mm) it can move ca 2dl of air per full stroke.
The Yamaha NS-1000M has got a 12" woofer, which has an area of ca 725cm² which means it can move slightly more air by moving the membrane only 3mm (+/-1,5mm)
I'm not so sure that the sealed construction adds so much to the lesser excursion of the woofer cone, but perhaps that contributes also...
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