Equipment feet

[brian2957]

Me and the boys are having a little shootout this weekend . On the agenda this time is equipment feet and supports . Do they make any difference ? Which ones are best VFM ?

Some of the contenders are listed below .

Sorbothane feet.
Oak cones .
RDC cones .
Electric Beach Rockin'Rollers
Sound Damped Steel pads .
Some home made efforts , and anything else the guys bring with them .

Hopefully we'll be trying the feet etc. under my Korus music server , my Rega amp , and my Rega DAC .
If you're interested in this area of hifi then watch this space . :)

[wee tee cee]

Have sent Gary a PM. Looking forward to having a bit of experimentation around this as Its the one area of my system I haven't really done much work around.

[Gazjam]

Yup, looking forward to coming over Brian, have the Lifatech optical cable for you Tony.

[Tarzan]

l for one would be interested in your findings Gaz.:)

[orbscure]

+1 from me too... especially with what best solution goes under which piece of equipment... :popcorn:

[Tarzan]

Electric Beach Rockin'Rollers.:eek:

[brian2957]

I bought a set last week Andy and I'm keen to compare them with the competition , and to get the other guys over for a listen . Plus Tony always brings good cakes with him :)

[Tarzan]

I bought a set last week Andy and I'm keen to compare them with the competition , and to get the other guys over for a listen . Plus Tony always brings good cakes with him :)


:eek::popcorn:

[Sovereign]

I always find that supports that works well under one persons equipment won't necessarily work under another persons equipment in the same way. As some of us have concrete floors, some of us have timber suspended floors, some of us live in flats or apartments, Some of us live in high traffic areas, and different equipment respond in different ways.
Never the less it will be lots of fun

[andrasszamek]

+1. it will depend on your equipment and tastes. most of them color the sound in some way to some extent, sometimes with very pleasant results. i find that the symposium rollerblocks are very neutral, they just make everything better without coloring. they are not exactly cheap though.

[Yomanze]

I had a bit of case resonance on my Krell KRC-3 at higher volumes, so I added some black ravioli pads under them and voila, it disappeared.

[brian2957]

Aye , to my ears they all work , some better than others . It's nice to have another set of ears though , just to make sure I'm not kidding myself on . Also , haven't had the guys over for a while so it will be good to catch up on things . :)

[MikeMusic]

My current favourites

RDC 4 cones - the 2 piece jobbies

Black Ravioli (latest tomato flavour)

Can't hear much difference between them.

Steve's offering way less dough than either so Mr.Cheapskate very keen to hear what you hear

[brian2957]

Yup , I'm sure it will be interesting Mike .

[wee tee cee]

Had a very interesting afternoon at Brian's place.....first and foremost thanks for the hospitality/patter/constant flow of coffee and tea (and NO my vaping device does not pick up radio).

I was open minded about what to expect, I haven't really spent much time regards isolation so knowing Gary and Brian had been experimenting for some time I was benefiting from the time they had already invested.

We tried pretty much all the different devices under Brian's server-some under the feet,some under the case work.

Oak cones/rdc cones/ rubbery thingies/steel plate sandwich configurations, one a commercial product and one Brian had made himself/Steve Jay of Electric beachs rockin rollers and his isolation platform.

Brian kept notes as we were rattling through different configurations pretty quickly but I was surprised that we all broadly came to the same consensus pretty quickly-personal tastes aside.

Long story short- The rockin rollers and steel plate sandwiches gave two flavours of excellence. Really head and shoulders above all the others. We settled on two carbon rockin rollers at the front with a brass one at the back under the server case /the steel sandwich under the server feet.

I was taken aback by just how much difference each configuration made to the soudstage/frequency extremes and ultimate listen ability of the music.

The Electric beach platform got plumbed into the mix late on and again caused a stir offering a great compromise -adding more isolation just got a bit bamboozling for me.

Came home with some rockin rollers and steel plates( thanks chaps) Stuck the rockin rollers between my frugels and the isolation platforms-I will be voting with my wallet.....enough said.

[brian2957]

Nice one mate , I take it that the Electric Beach Rockin'Rollers are doing the business under your speakers . :) That's the only place I never tried them as my speakers have spikes fitted.
I'm getting dragged out for dinner soon so I'll post about this excellent afternoons listening and testing as soon as I am able.
Thanks for the feedback :)

[brian2957]

Well , the guys duly arrived yesterday and after a bit of catching up we settled down with a cup of coffee to have a listen . Firstly , we listened to a couple of tracks without anything under my server and familiarised ourselves with the sound of my system . It was indeed sounding pretty good with a nice wide soundstage and all the elements were there in spades . I'm very pleased with the big Tannoy 637s I bought off Grant ( struth ) a while back . They're right down my street .

We then placed the Sorbothane feet under the server . I'm afraid we all thought that this was a backward step . The music became more sibilant and there was a loss of focus and background detail.

Then we put the oak cones in place . This resulted in a smaller soundstage and the music seemed to be more ' cluttered ' and congested . Gary did comment that he thought that the music was a bit more tuneful .

Next we put in the Rockin' Rollers . This was more like it we all thought . Soundstage increased way beyond the speakers and new detail was to be heard from some music which I know very well . The noise floor seemed lower and singers voices seemed more natural and expressive . Gary also commented that he could hear the timbre of instruments much more clearly and instrument decay was also much better . All in all , a big improvement on what had come before . The music now sounded more real and '' right '' . Bass was clean and deep , mids including voices were more natural , and the top end also sounded more natural . We also all agreed that the best combination was two carbon feet at the front and one brass foot at the back . This resulted in the best balance in all our opinions .

Next came the RDC Cones. These were my supports of choice for quite a while . The sound now was flatter to our ears , just a bit less interesting and less energetic . Voices and instruments now sounded a bit boring as if the musician and the singer didn't really care what they were doing . There was also a slightly closed in soundstage compared to the Rockin'Rollers . The detail was all there but had taken on a '' glassy ''character . All in all , the RDC Cones were an improvement over no feet but now they just seemed a bit '' dead'' compared to what had come before .

Last , but not least , came the Sound Damped Steel pads . These proved to be an audible improvement over the RDC Cones . Again the music had taken on a life of its own with a bigger soundstage and lower noise floor resulting in the music just sounding right . Voices were more natural , the bass was deep and clean , and the top end was clear and natural . Really a very nice improvement on nothing at all .

I was using the SDS pads because they were the best , reasonably priced ,equipment supports which I had come across to date . I bought the Electric Beach Rockin'Rollers because they were reasonably priced , and I do like to try new things . The Rockin' Rollers proved to be an improvement on everything else which I had previously used , including the SDS pads . To be fair there isn't a lot in it , but an upgrade's an upgrade . It also provided me with an opportunity to get the troops round for a nice afternoon of listening and banter.

I also had on hand an Electric Beach platform which I had only received the day before and hadn't really tried . The platform is beautifully finished in black and looks very nice between my rack and server . The platform did indeed provide a very nice upgrade from nothing at all . The soundstage expanded and more detail was clearly on offer . For me though he platform came into its own when used with the Rockin'Rollers as it seemed to '' magnify '' the effect of the feet and the music became a bit more natural and just '' right '' .
The Electric Beach Rockin ' Rollers and the platform will be staying under my server for the foreseeable future . A very nice improvement for a great price . More to follow on the platform .
Tony has two sets of the feet away with him to try under his excellent Electric Beach Frugal speakers so I'm looking forward to his opinion of the Rockin' Rollers in this context .

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/IMG_20151011_165241904_zpsv2zbziro.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/IMG_20151011_165241904_zpsv2zbziro.jpg.html)
My little system which was used to carry out the test .

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/IMG_20151011_165256739_zpsysaxwsek.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/IMG_20151011_165256739_zpsysaxwsek.jpg.html)
The Electric Beach platform with the Rockin ' Rollers under the server.


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/IMG_20151011_165447901_zpssw4mtmtu.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/IMG_20151011_165447901_zpssw4mtmtu.jpg.html)
The Electric beach Rockin ' Rollers .

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/IMG_20151011_165342036_zpstzmr3icp.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/IMG_20151011_165342036_zpstzmr3icp.jpg.html)
The Sound Damped Steel pads .

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/IMG_20151011_165559135_zps2hngt4di.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/IMG_20151011_165559135_zps2hngt4di.jpg.html)
The Sorbothane feet.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/IMG_20151011_165649359_zpsh71kfsgh.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/IMG_20151011_165649359_zpsh71kfsgh.jpg.html)
The RDC Cones.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/IMG_20151011_165708820_zpsbtyieuoy.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/IMG_20151011_165708820_zpsbtyieuoy.jpg.html)
The Oak Cone feet.

[struth]

Nice writeup Brian. They the things you were showing me last time you were rou!d mate?

[brian2957]

Thanks Grant , yes that's the Rockin'Rollers . Tony now has them to try under his speakers . I'll get back to you on this mate.

[struth]

Not seen them advertised...the guy needs to push them.

[brian2957]

I bought them off Ebay . Just search for '' Rockin ' Rollers vibration feet ''

[struth]

Found them. Ta... I will consider getting some when finances are better. Got xmas to think about for kids.

[orbscure]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rockin-Rollers-HiFi-vibration-damping-resonance-control-feet-/331661119559 ;)

[Spectral Morn]

Some photos would have been nice :(



Regards Neil

[brian2957]

I'll get some up Neil . Ran out of time mate .

[wee tee cee]

Brian kindly loaned me a set of rockin rollers and some steel sandwich plates.Put the rockin rollers under my Frugels -between the speakers and the base Steve makes for them.
I could be wrong but I think this one of Steves primary ideas for them.

Well they work a treat. I wasn't concious of a bit of hash and congestion in my set up but it was very noticeable when it disappeared. Restarted solid air three times....Its digging up detail and a delicacy that I just haven't heard before. The best praise I can level is that its sounds really like listening to cans.

Will vote with my wallet and get a set for under the speakers and a platform for under the electronics.

[orbscure]

I've bought a set of the rollers off eBay so that I can try them under my Korus server.. but where are the steel sandwich plates available from? When my new stands arrive, i may buy another two sets to go under my Chevoits...

[wee tee cee]

Brian kindly loaned me a set of rockin rollers and some steel sandwich plates.Put the rockin rollers under my Frugels -between the speakers and the base Steve makes for them.
I could be wrong but I think this one of Steves primary ideas for them.

Well they work a treat. I wasn't concious of a bit of hash and congestion in my set up but it was very noticeable when it disappeared. Restarted solid air three times....Its digging up detail and a delicacy that I just haven't heard before. The best praise I can level is that its sounds really like listening to cans.

Will vote with my wallet and get a set for under the speakers and a platform for under the electronics.

[brian2957]

Nice one mate , but if the wife asks it was nothing to do with me :lol:

[brian2957]

I've bought a set of the rollers off eBay so that I can try them under my Korus server.. but where are the steel sandwich plates available from? When my new stands arrive, i may buy another two sets to go under my Chevoits...

Pete , go into Ebay and search for ''sounddampedsteel'' and then ''other items'' mate .

They also have their own website which makes interesting reading .

[orbscure]

Ahhhh... many thanks Brian, I have indeed seen those on my eBay travels before.. :)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Isofeet-by-SoundDampedSteel-In-Stainless-Steel-set-of-4-/190830586967

[brian2957]

You have PM Pete .

[YNWaN]

Do you have your speakers positioned on small side tables then?

[brian2957]

Do you have your speakers positioned on small side tables then?

I had made some heavier stands Mark but they brought out too much of the bass in my 3m x 8m room , and the wife kept asking me to turn the sound down :rolleyes: . Just too much bass . I bought these little tables from Ikea and cut them down to size and painted them black . They give me a much better balance IMO . I was never a '' bass-head '' anyway :D

[wee tee cee]

Got the steel sandwich plates under my granite chopping board which sits in an ikea table thing. My electronics sit on it- a caiman 2 dac/capella/v-link...on the cans the isolation makes a noticeable improvement.

One of Steves isolation platforms performed on a par with the plates on the day...I listen to cans a lot of the time so will give it a go.

Nice upgrade for reasonable money.

[brian2957]

Ta mate , keep us posted .

[Gazjam]

Nice one Tony, good upgrades for not a lot of moolah always good.

[cyclopse]

The Rockin Rollers platform looks like stained marine ply. This is already known to be good in audio due to the grains going in different directions.

What I cannot see is what the platform is supported by.

[CageyH]

A nice write up.

I think I am going to have to give the rollers a try with my FH3s.

[brian2957]

Kevin , I think Tony is doing just that at the moment .

[orbscure]

Being a bit of a sceptic, I purchased a set of three for fitting beneath my Korus server purely as a result of the positive comments above. At £18 a set, it seemed a bit of a no brianer. Well, they arrived today (with thanks to Steve @ Electric Beech via eBay) and as for any sonic differences, its early days, but there certainly appears to be an improvement, especially with a more airy feel to the mid and high frequencies. Having said that though, I've also fitted a Russ Andrews 6-way mains block tonight, so that too might have had a positive effect on what I'm hearing. Anyway, with regards the Rollers, I plan to buy another two sets to sit between between my Chevoits and bespoke speaker stands... rather than four blobs of blutak :)

[brian2957]

Yes , that's what I found Pete only the results we got were far from subtle . The Rockin'Rollers also cleaned up the bass in my system .

[orbscure]

At £18 a set Brian, whether there's a big or small improvement, its got to be worth a punt :)

Incidentally, given the weight of my Chevoits, I'm currently in discussion with Steve about the suitability of the standard 3 piece roller set versus a newly developed 4 piece roller set... so watch this space ;)

[brian2957]

Yup , please keep us posted on that mate .

[wee tee cee]

Had the rockin rollers under the frugels for a few days now. The only thing that is annoying me is that the soundstage has opened up so much Ive got up to answer the front door twice-with knowone there.

Steve is sending me a platform for under my electrics and a set for the frugels.

Many thanks Brian for the loan.

[brian2957]

Hah ! Old age doesn't come by itself mate :wheniwasaboy:
Yes we heard that at mine with the Rockin'Rollers , an opening up of the soundstage without any loss of focus . The Frugals already had a big soundstage , it must be really impressive now if these feet have extended it once again .
Please keep us posted mate .

[OD1]

Having read this great thread :), and considering the low £18 cost, I have just ordered a set of the rollers to try between my CD player & glass shelf.

[brian2957]

Please let us know how you get on Oliver . :)

Can I suggest that you try them both ways round on glass ( rollers facing down then up )

[OD1]

Please let us know how you get on Oliver . :)

Can I suggest that you try them both ways round on glass ( rollers facing down then up )

I will try both ways over the weekend & post my findings

[Audio Advent]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rockin-Rollers-HiFi-vibration-damping-resonance-control-feet-/331661119559 ;)

Balsa off-cuts sprayed black with a spray can and caron fibre rods stuck on the base. Interesting...

Not saying they're a rip-off because of what you might pay someone to bother to do it for you and their access to scrap material from their work perhaps, but not an amazing product by any means! But "Finished in a rustic styling, each one is painstakingly hand crafted" :lol: One man's quick job is another's "painstaking" I guess. Poor lad !

Instead of buying things marketed as hifi products, people should just look around and try this and that for free - there's a lot of wasted scrap around. Recycle..

[Audio Advent]

The Rockin Rollers platform looks like stained marine ply. This is already known to be good in audio due to the grains going in different directions.

What I cannot see is what the platform is supported by.

Odd because the listing says the marine ply board is made of the same stuff as the vibration control feet which is balsa (the mesh-backed stuff used in making balsa composite materials ) . I guess wood is wood !

[struth]

Do you make a better product Sam:) if so get it on the market.

[brian2957]

I bought a set of the Electrib Beach Rockin'Rollers a couple of weeks ago . I've been into hifi for over 30 years and I've tried all sorts of supports and feet under my equipment . Some expensive , some cheap , and I've tried making my own out of differing materials and in all different shapes . I'm not particularly well off and being the canny Scot that I am I don't really like wasting my money , but I took a punt on these because they looked unusual and weren't particularly expensive for what they claim to do . The Rockin' Rollers ousted a set of isolation feet which cost almost 3 times the price under my music server. They provided me with one of the most cost effective upgrades ( in this area of hifi equipment ) to my system which I have experienced in over 30 years of being in this hobby . Simply put , in my system , these feet do everything which is claimed in the Ebay listing . Also please note that I wasn't alone in my conclusion , there were 2 other sets of ears present when these were fitted , to confirm that I wasn't hearing things . I'm not prone to posting bullshit in this forum and if I find something which I think is worth a punt I will let the members of AOS know about it . I'm not saying that these will transform every system but for £21 they're certainly well worth a try ( in my opinion of course ) :)

[eisenach]

I've been using these for the last 15 years or so:

http://www.cd-str5.com/eng/pics/Ring+2JPG.jpg

(sorry, that came out big ! They come as a set of 4, of course.)
They're not cheap, and only available from Germany, now,
http://www.cd-str5.com/eng/cd-str5.htm
but very effective.

[Tarzan]

Well done BRian you have hit the nail squarely on the head there.:)

[brian2957]

They look interesting Martin but I'm afraid my days of spending a lot of money on audio accessories are pretty much over . :)

[brian2957]

Well done BRian you have hit the nail squarely on the head there.:)

Cheers Andy , just telling it how it is ( for me anyway ) :D

[The Black Adder]

Hi Brain. I have to agree with you too. I would like to spend lots on fancy supports but the only ones I use are wood cones under my pre. I've been looking in to supports recently too and the EB' ones look interesting. The cones under my pre are ok but could be better I think.

I am however interested to know (without causing too much thread drift) is how isolation can improve things under a music server!? Surely HDD's can't miss anything as the data is verified isn't it or am I missing something? I just use a single HDD plugged in to the Pi via USB, is this something to look in to?

[brian2957]

Josie , the short answer is I can't explain why these work , and I've never been able to . My server uses a SSD for the operating system and an external HDD for the music files . The only moving part in the server is the fan . TBH with you I've never been able to explain why a lot of things work ( or don't ) in this hobby . If something looks interesting , and cheap :D , I'm willing to take a punt . This was my logic behind the Electric Beach footers and on this occasion my gamble paid off handsomely . The only thing I can suggest is that you give them a try yourself , like me you may be pleasantly surprised . :)

[The Black Adder]

Sure, I might just do that, Brian.

Is the gold EB support something special? Ii can't see that on they sale page.

Mmm, SSD drives... lol - I'd love to give one a go eventually.

[brian2957]

Worth a try Josie , they certainly saw off the oak cone feet in my system .

The SSD only has the operating system in my server , no music . I have to say the server boots up much quicker since I fited it.

Gold supports ? Not seen them yet .

[Audio Advent]

Do you make a better product Sam:) if so get it on the market.

My exact point is that making "a product" like this is a bit of a nonsense. This is balsa sprayed black and with cut carbon rods stuck underneath. How about people try some free scrap off cuts of balsa underneath instead?

For a "product" you're making someone a profit plus you're getting them to spray something black and then, worse, they are forced to add adornments to convince people that it is a special combination of those parts which has special properties, else it's not really a "product" and no "value" has been added.

People could try taking off the carbon rods and just try the balsa on its own and compare.. Personally though, I've never found feet to make a difference and so put what people do hear down to confirmation bias (that's my opinion, there's no point being insulted by my opinon based on my personal experience - I'm sure folks will be though). Therefore it's quite likely that those going from the rockin rollers to trying balsa alone would be expecting things to be worse and experience negative confirmation bias, hence that would be no real test either..

Even so, I present my "product", it's a knowledge based product which you lease on licence: take off the rods and place the balsa under the unit in the same manner. Send me a tenner. Money back if you don't prefer it (minus postage).

Alternatively, there are some sheets of Balsaflex for £35 on ebay which should do about 300 of these feet each sheet (Balsaflex has the mesh backing on like the rockin rollers).

[brian2957]

Unfortunately we didn't have any sheets of Balsa wood to try when we made the comparisons between the feet and I'm not going to bother because I'm extremely happy with my new feet thank you :) I repeat that there were three of us present when we did the tests and we all heard similar improvements with the Electric Beach feet . If you take the trouble to have a look around the forums ( The Audio Standard in particular ) you will find that others had a similar experience to ours . As I said earlier , these feet are not a universal solution , but when they work , they work really well .
http://theaudiostandard.net/thread/1664/equipment-support-comparison

[Tarzan]

My exact point is that making "a product" like this is a bit of a nonsense. This is balsa sprayed black and with cut carbon rods stuck underneath. How about people try some free scrap off cuts of balsa underneath instead?

For a "product" you're making someone a profit plus you're getting them to spray something black and then, worse, they are forced to add adornments to convince people that it is a special combination of those parts which has special properties, else it's not really a "product" and no "value" has been added.

People could try taking off the carbon rods and just try the balsa on its own and compare.. Personally though, I've never found feet to make a difference and so put what people do hear down to confirmation bias (that's my opinion, there's no point being insulted by my opinon based on my personal experience - I'm sure folks will be though). Therefore it's quite likely that those going from the rockin rollers to trying balsa alone would be expecting things to be worse and experience negative confirmation bias, hence that would be no real test either..

Even so, I present my "product", it's a knowledge based product which you lease on licence: take off the rods and place the balsa under the unit in the same manner. Send me a tenner. Money back if you don't prefer it (minus postage).

Alternatively, there are some sheets of Balsaflex for £35 on ebay which should do about 300 of these feet each sheet (Balsaflex has the mesh backing on like the rockin rollers).


So what Sam?

If you do not like aftermarket equipment feet do not purchase any- simple.:)

[CageyH]

By the time I have bought the balsa, paint, different material rods etc. and have experimented with differing options, it works out better and cheaper for me to buy some from someone who has already done the ground work.

[brian2957]

By the time I have bought the balsa, paint, different material rods etc. and have experimented with differing options, it works out better and cheaper for me to buy some from someone who has already done the ground work.
Good point Kevin :)

[Gazjam]

SSDs should be manditory. :)

Apart from everything being noticably quicker, with no moving parts they are completely silent.
1 step closer to that silent music server in the listening room.


Worth a try Josie , they certainly saw off the oak cone feet in my system .

The SSD only has the operating system in my server , no music . I have to say the server boots up much quicker since I fited it.

Gold supports ? Not seen them yet .

[Gazjam]

By the time I have bought the balsa, paint, different material rods etc. and have experimented with differing options, it works out better and cheaper for me to buy some from someone who has already done the ground work.

And the cost being asked is very fair imo, given the research the guy has put in and (importantly) the level of improvement we have found the Rock n Rolla's give.

Non foo, non marketing BS, not taking the piss...they work.

[struth]

My exact point is that making "a product" like this is a bit of a nonsense. This is balsa sprayed black and with cut carbon rods stuck underneath. How about people try some free scrap off cuts of balsa underneath instead?

For a "product" you're making someone a profit plus you're getting them to spray something black and then, worse, they are forced to add adornments to convince people that it is a special combination of those parts which has special properties, else it's not really a "product" and no "value" has been added.

People could try taking off the carbon rods and just try the balsa on its own and compare.. Personally though, I've never found feet to make a difference and so put what people do hear down to confirmation bias (that's my opinion, there's no point being insulted by my opinon based on my personal experience - I'm sure folks will be though). Therefore it's quite likely that those going from the rockin rollers to trying balsa alone would be expecting things to be worse and experience negative confirmation bias, hence that would be no real test either..

Even so, I present my "product", it's a knowledge based product which you lease on licence: take off the rods and place the balsa under the unit in the same manner. Send me a tenner. Money back if you don't prefer it (minus postage).

Alternatively, there are some sheets of Balsaflex for £35 on ebay which should do about 300 of these feet each sheet (Balsaflex has the mesh backing on like the rockin rollers).

Your hypothesis is flawed Sam. Sorry!

[Gazjam]

My exact point is that making "a product" like this is a bit of a nonsense. This is balsa sprayed black and with cut carbon rods stuck underneath. How about people try some free scrap off cuts of balsa underneath instead?

For a "product" you're making someone a profit plus you're getting them to spray something black and then, worse, they are forced to add adornments to convince people that it is a special combination of those parts which has special properties, else it's not really a "product" and no "value" has been added.

People could try taking off the carbon rods and just try the balsa on its own and compare.. Personally though, I've never found feet to make a difference and so put what people do hear down to confirmation bias (that's my opinion, there's no point being insulted by my opinon based on my personal experience - I'm sure folks will be though). Therefore it's quite likely that those going from the rockin rollers to trying balsa alone would be expecting things to be worse and experience negative confirmation bias, hence that would be no real test either..

Even so, I present my "product", it's a knowledge based product which you lease on licence: take off the rods and place the balsa under the unit in the same manner. Send me a tenner. Money back if you don't prefer it (minus postage).

Alternatively, there are some sheets of Balsaflex for £35 on ebay which should do about 300 of these feet each sheet (Balsaflex has the mesh backing on like the rockin rollers).

Someone piss in your cornflakes fella? http://theartofsound.net/images/smilies/rolleye0011.gif

In your terms, the guys offering a service as well as a product and in the scheme of things (...given the low price being asked and that if they dont work in your system, send 'em back with no grief) where exactly's the beef?

Theres genuine Foo and marketing BS worthy of being called out, and I'm all for that.
This isn't it.

I've heard them in my own system and in other folks and they do make a noticable improvement.
Not being funny, but I'm assuming you've not actually heard 'em?

Peace. http://theartofsound.net/images/smilies/food-smiley-005.gif

[OD1]

I have now listened to the Rockin' Rollers between my Exposure 2010s CD player & Atacama glass shelf, & noticed an improvement in depth & space when listening to live recordings.
I was impressed with the bass, which seemed deeper but not as loud as before (sorry I can't think of a better way to explain this change:scratch:).

I tried them wood up, wood down, & the front two wood up & the brass one wood down at the back, and to be honest I did not hear any difference, but will try these configurations again when the neighbours are away and I can listen at a higher volume.

From what I heard so far, these are def keepers :). I will try them under my Sky HD Box & Blu Ray player, that are also sat on glass shelves, and report my findings in this thread.

Oliver

[Audio Advent]

By the time I have bought the balsa, paint, different material rods etc. and have experimented with differing options, it works out better and cheaper for me to buy some from someone who has already done the ground work.


Good point Kevin :)





Someone piss in your cornflakes fella? http://theartofsound.net/images/smilies/rolleye0011.gif

In your terms, the guys offering a service as well as a product and in the scheme of things (...given the low price being asked and that if they dont work in your system, send 'em back with no grief) where exactly's the beef?

Theres genuine Foo and marketing BS worthy of being called out, and I'm all for that.
This isn't it.

:doh: I guess people don't care to read what I wrote originally - in terms of someone doing this all for you they are ok value, which is exactly what I said originally!

Struth asked me something specific and I gave my answer, simple as that. I have never heard differences when changing feet. What is your beef with that personal experience?

Im suggesting people don't get so excited about products but to try bits and pieces for themselves for free as when those free scrap materials come up (which they do if you're that way inclined). You might just find something even better for your personal tastes and be very very pleased with yourself for having come up with it yourself.

Commercial products for this kind of thing are full of pit holes and hit and miss and waste people's money as re-sell values are poor. Balsa on its own MAY well sound better, but this commercial product which one will have spent money on effects one psychologically and people won't dare dismantle one and try out the balsa alone because it might "ruin" the product - it's becomes a head-f@*$, binds one in chains for actually achieving the desired aim (the best support you can find). If people have chosen the rockin rollers as best, what about the money wasted on focalpods, damped steels etc? And those looking for best value may find it in one sheet of balsaflex for £30 which will make about 70 sets for all friends and family...

If you don't like my enthusiasm for DIY and encouragement for people to experiment rather than only try other's ideas... then that's your own issue.

[Audio Advent]

So what Sam?

If you do not like aftermarket equipment feet do not purchase any- simple.:)

Yep! This is a forum, not just a list of stuff we've bought or deciding not to buy.

[Audio Advent]

Your hypothesis is flawed Sam. Sorry!

You'll have to expand on that.

I made two points, one that in my experience these things don't make a difference and so I see it as confirmation bias (again my opinion, not a hypothesis).

And secondly about what constitutes a viable commercial product and doesn't cause finger pointing and screaming "that's just a bit of wood!" - was that bit flawed?

[Gazjam]

:eek:

kQFKtI6gn9Y

[brian2957]

:lol: It's years since I seen that :D

[Audio Advent]

haha!

I came here for a discussion about making such things for yourself (when the winners of the equipment feet shootout are so obviously home-made from scraps) but I think this is the argument room.. I want my money back!

[brian2957]

No it's not :lol:

[Gazjam]

:D


haha!

I came here for a discussion about making such things for yourself (when the winners of the equipment feet shootout are so obviously home-made from scraps) but I think this is the argument room.. I want my money back!

[Tarzan]

haha!

I came here for a discussion about making such things for yourself (when the winners of the equipment feet shootout are so obviously home-made from scraps) but I think this is the argument room.. I want my money back!

Well done Sam that is the spirit.:)

[brian2957]

I have now listened to the Rockin' Rollers between my Exposure 2010s CD player & Atacama glass shelf, & noticed an improvement in depth & space when listening to live recordings.
I was impressed with the bass, which seemed deeper but not as loud as before (sorry I can't think of a better way to explain this change:scratch:).

I tried them wood up, wood down, & the front two wood up & the brass one wood down at the back, and to be honest I did not hear any difference, but will try these configurations again when the neighbours are away and I can listen at a higher volume.

From what I heard so far, these are def keepers :). I will try them under my Sky HD Box & Blu Ray player, that are also sat on glass shelves, and report my findings in this thread.

Oliver

Thanks for the feedback Oliver , they're good aren't they :)

[orbscure]

After the success of the standard Rockin'Rollers between my Korus server and oak rack, Steve @ Electric Beach made up and sold me four pairs of Rockin'Roller X2's. These have been developed to sit between speakers and stands, so in my case, they now sit between my Cheviots and their custom oak stands as seen below:

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/6kuU76ocUcwPqO8TEiUR5Iigdj6uALYvWPQ1ewmUSgU_zpsida riuxt.jpg
http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/P5sOCvVD-2qrZp48fSxDkLU5fVQO0gmDXcX3shP-uy8_zpsdriuyrjb.jpg

I meant to photograph them before fitting, but given the size and weight of the Cheviots it took a great deal of effort and fiddling to position them, including trapped fingers accompanied by copious use of foul language, I'm leaving them where they are! Suffice to say that each foot comes as a pair and in my case, the three roller part are held in place on the underside of the speakers with double sided tape, whilst the two roller part is positioned on the stand and can move freely... but you can have them the other way around if you so wish...

More to be added once I've had a decent listen... :popcorn:

[struth]

Oh you tease.;)

[brian2957]

I have the Electric Beach X1s and now the X2s under my server . The X1s gave me a fantastic upgrade in SQ and the X2s take things even further .:)

Looking forward to reading your take on what these do under your speakers Pete . :)

[wee tee cee]

Heard the X2s at Brians place last week....they were fiddly enough placing under a server-dare say speakers would have exhausted my entire mother fucker lexicon.

Once in place they certainly made a sonic change. They just open up the sound and add a little detail and nuance that was missing. We both commented on a slightly granular quality to voices-very revealing and enjoyable.

[brian2957]

Yup , I think you got a bit of a surprise with these Tony . They've opened my music right up :)

[Ali Tait]

The ones at the back of the pics look like they have a bit of brass inbetween?

[Gazjam]

Yup , I think you got a bit of a surprise with these Tony . They've opened my music right up :)

Like to hear them mate..?
Still have the platform under the Transporter, be good to hear it with the feet too. :)

[brian2957]

The ones at the back of the pics look like they have a bit of brass inbetween?

Yes, 2 carbon feet and one brass Ali .

[Ali Tait]

Aye, but the front ones are different?

[brian2957]

Two of the X1s have 3 carbon rods and one has 2 carbon and one brass rod . They're on the top in the picture and the X2s have only 2 (larger ) carbon rods on each foot . I use the X1s facing down and the X2s facing up . In the picture they are the other way round with the X2s facing down . They can be used either way round I suppose .

[orbscure]

As way of an update to my last post, the X2 Rollers have been sat between my Cheviots and their custom speakers stands for over a week now, so its about time for me to report back with my findings :eyebrows:

Initially, I notice a subtle change in bass reproduction. It wasn't as marked a change from swapping my JBL4311's for the Cheviots, but it was a noticeable change nonetheless. As I mentioned when fitting the rollers, given how difficult it was positioning them under 30kg of speaker on my own, I've not been able to remove them and make track comparison with/without... however, not that the Cheviots had an overbearing or untidy bass reproduction in the first place, there is definitely an improvement with a focusing and sharpening of the lower frequencies. Mids and highs remain very much as they did but they sounded great in the first place anyway. For the first time in ages, I find myself sitting, listening and thoroughly enjoying what I'm hearing without any great urge to change/box swap my DAC, amp, cables or speakers (within the limitations of what I can spend vs any sonic improvements :D ). Sure, I still have itches to scratch (like a Benchmark DAC and I'm still searching for a CD player which excites me), but they are not itches born out of my being unhappy with what I'm currently hearing, they would be changes made out of idle curiosity.

So, in my humble opinion, the £51.30 spent on the X2 Rollers has very much been money well spent :)

[struth]

Good stuff Pete.... Had Brian through today for a short visit b4 he goes to nebo and then his hols... He brought me a set of rollers for my sony amp to try... Have to say he is right and they have cured that slight harshness i had. It was a tight squeeze getting them in but managed... Very pleased with them and Alma has never sounded sweeter:)

[brian2957]

Excellent news guys :D

[Gazjam]

Brian was over at my gaff today, brought over the X1's and the X2's to try on my glass rack.
Will have a play Friday see whats what, I have Steve's isolation platform as well so will compare with that as well.

[Tarzan]

Brian was over at my gaff today, brought over the X1's and the X2's to try on my glass rack.
Will have a play Friday see whats what, I have Steve's isolation platform as well so will compare with that as well.


:popcorn:

[brian2957]

Well I have the Electric Beach X1s and X2s under my server and they're staying there .

Gies some o' that popcorn Andy :D

[struth]

Well I have the Electric Beach X1s and X2s under my server and they're staying there .

Gies some o' that popcorn Andy :D

and he's no gettin' the ones under my amp back either ;) over my cold, cold grave

[brian2957]

and he's no gettin' the ones under my amp back either ;) over my cold, cold grave

Things CAN be arranged you know :uhho:

[struth]

Things CAN be arranged you know :uhho:

Marco!! he's bullying me again coz he's big

[walpurgis]

he's bullying me again coz he's big

Bet he's smelly too! :lol: ;)


Anyway, getting back to equipment feet. Here's a solution for anybody wanting some simple plastic feet for anything.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281534003639?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=580558550800&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

They're perfect. Just drill a hole the right size and glue them in. Dirt cheap as well.

[cyclopse]

Excellent news guys :D

I purchased two sets this week.

[brian2957]

Be good to know how you get on with them Stephen :)

[cyclopse]

Be good to know how you get on with them Stephen :)

OK Brian. They are going under the Whest phono stage.

[brian2957]

Bet he's smelly too! :lol: ;)

I can't tell because I was in Grants company today :ner:

[walpurgis]

I can't tell because I was in Grants company today :ner:

:lol:

[brian2957]

If there's a fight I'll hold the coats ( even the smelly ones ) :lol:

[Gazjam]

Bet he's smelly too! :lol: ;)


Anyway, getting back to equipment feet. Here's a solution for anybody wanting some simple plastic feet for anything.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281534003639?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=580558550800&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

They're perfect. Just drill a hole the right size and glue them in. Dirt cheap as well.

Can vouch for this...

[brian2957]

That's a terrible thing to say about Grant . Nothing wrong that a good :acid: wouldn't fix :lol:

[struth]

:(

[brian2957]

Ony kiddin mate :) You always smell of very expensive eau de toilette whenever I visit .:D

Never got me nice cup of coffee either today mate :rolleyes:

[Gazjam]

That's a terrible thing to say about Grant . Nothing wrong that a good :acid: wouldn't fix :lol:

Yer patters pish matey... :)

[brian2957]

Cheeky boy :lol:

Any more of this and I'll keep yer cables :lol:

[struth]

Ony kiddin mate :) You always smell of very expensive eau de toilette whenever I visit .:D

Never got me nice cup of coffee either today mate :rolleyes:

Alas an elderly male yak pished over the beans :eyebrows: ive dried them oot, so I will keep 'em for you ;)


:D

[brian2957]

Oldmanyakpishbeans . Sounds good to me mate :lol:

Thought there was a Himalayan mountain aroma aboot the last cup of coffee you gave me :D

[struth]

Oldyakmanpishbeans . Sounds good to me mate :lol:

stored in a sweaty sock of course :eek: you will be used to the taste when you get back from the hols:D


hope you have fun at Nebo ,

[brian2957]

I'm sure NEBO will be fantastic . :D

I'll take Prague as it comes :D

[cyclopse]

Be good to know how you get on with them Stephen :)

Given these a thorough test now. Yes there is no doubt they are making a positive contribution to the sound. Well made, may be a little DIY looking but they do the business where it matters. Plus you cannot see them under a component.

Many thanks to Brian for testing and recommending them.

[brian2957]

Hi Stephen , I've been using the Electric Beach X1s and X2s under my server for quite a while now and believe them to be outandiing value for money . Glad you like them mate :)

[struth]

Got the x1's fitted to cd player too now. Definite improvement me thinks. Might be getting a platform for the tt as well ...will see!

[Audio Advent]

Given these a thorough test now. Yes there is no doubt they are making a positive contribution to the sound. Well made, may be a little DIY looking but they do the business where it matters. Plus you cannot see them under a component.

Many thanks to Brian for testing and recommending them.

Has anyone bothered testing just the balsa and therefore the sound being purely down to putting balsa under components?

To find that it had the same effect would be a great contribution to the audiophile community, would place tweeks back into the people's hands and perhaps lead to even better cheap and sonically rewarding tweeking ideas. It would have to be done by someone who has the fancy supports to compare.

[CageyH]

Balsa off-cuts sprayed black with a spray can and caron fibre rods stuck on the base. Interesting...

Not saying they're a rip-off because of what you might pay someone to bother to do it for you and their access to scrap material from their work perhaps, but not an amazing product by any means! But "Finished in a rustic styling, each one is painstakingly hand crafted" :lol: One man's quick job is another's "painstaking" I guess. Poor lad !

Instead of buying things marketed as hifi products, people should just look around and try this and that for free - there's a lot of wasted scrap around. Recycle..


Has anyone bothered testing just the balsa and therefore the sound being purely down to putting balsa under components?

To find that it had the same effect would be a great contribution to the audiophile community, would place tweeks back into the people's hands and perhaps lead to even better cheap and sonically rewarding tweeking ideas. It would have to be done by someone who has the fancy supports to compare.

I am surprised you have not already done this? ;)

:D

[struth]

Talking of feet...mine are awesome... Onto my second set of the rock-n-rollers this set under my cd player. They have im afraid to report improved the sound by a margin. Hopi!g to get more when budget allows and a possible platform....
TBH i doubt unless i needed to make dozens i could get them as cheap if i made them myself

[brian2957]

Talking of feet...mine are awesome... Onto my second set of the rock-n-rollers this set under my cd player. They have im afraid to report improved the sound by a margin. Hopi!g to get more when budget allows and a possible platform....
TBH i doubt unless i needed to make dozens i could get them as cheap if i made them myself

Nice one Grant . These feet certainly work in my system , and for a very reasonable price too :)

[Audio Advent]

I am surprised you have not already done this? ;)

:D

Tweaking is the very last thing I would be spending my time on as I've more interest in swapping gear or getting around to building my ncore amps, re-housing my Paradise phono stage and building an actual hifi stand of good enough aesthetic merit.

If I then start investigating feet/bits of wood under the equipment rather than discovering new music .... then it won't be for some time or until retirement perhaps when I'm searching for things to fill my time. Hardly time to listen to music in the first place at the moment, work too busy!

[Audio Advent]

Talking of feet...mine are awesome... Onto my second set of the rock-n-rollers this set under my cd player. They have im afraid to report improved the sound by a margin. Hopi!g to get more when budget allows and a possible platform....
TBH i doubt unless i needed to make dozens i could get them as cheap if i made them myself

If it were discovered it were only the balsa making the difference then it could probably be carried out for free by getting some scrap balsa. It's even available from ebay in copious quantities, enough to make a hundred odd sets of feet, for the same cost as a couple of sets. So doubt no more, just have to bite the bullet.

[vinyljunky]

Brian having trouble finding these rockin rollers for sale any suggestions:D

[mikeyb]

Brian having trouble finding these rockin rollers for sale any suggestions:D
I'll pm Steve's email address so you can contact him that way to order. I bought mine via eBay but I don't see any on just now.

[vinyljunky]

Cheers mike:D

[brian2957]

Hi Steve , if you go on to the Electric Beach Frugal site you'll find his contact details there mate .

[Audio Advent]

Brian having trouble finding these rockin rollers for sale any suggestions:D

OMG! This kind of thing makes me feel sick and crazy all at once.. Now they're being sold by a commercial outfit at double the price minus the brass rod except for a "dot" to add some magic !

Guys, please... it is just this stuff:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA==/z/nHUAAOSwrklVGZrD/$_12.JPG

with some of this:

http://images6.wheelspinmodels.co.uk/5518638-b74a.jpg

Painted with this:

http://media-poundland.scdn1.secure.raxcdn.com/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/8/18090_7.jpg



Let's do costing on that:

The Balsa: one sheet is ~ £30 and can do 144 seperate feet (2 layers of 47mm squares). Cost per foot: 21p

6mm Carbon Fibre rod from model shop: £6.50/m . Cost per foot: (needs 5 x 47mm rods) £1.63

Paint: 300ml for £1 at poundland. Cost per foot: Estimate 2p (based on covering 0.3 sq metres with one can)

Total per foot: £1.86 Total per set: £5.58



Can churn these out at about 10 sets an hour at least, being slow and with the paint already dry.


For my next trick I shall be selling "stylus cleaning putty" on a cocktail stick for £8 a pop when it's just watchmakers putty at £3 a box cut into 5 small bits...

[MikeMusic]

Mark Grant has them for sale in what looks like a Mark 3 version

[PaulStewart]

OMG! This kind of thing makes me feel sick and crazy all at once.. Now they're being sold by a commercial outfit at double the price minus the brass rod except for a "dot" to add some magic !

Guys, please... it is just this stuff:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA==/z/nHUAAOSwrklVGZrD/$_12.JPG

with some of this:

http://images6.wheelspinmodels.co.uk/5518638-b74a.jpg

Painted with this:

http://media-poundland.scdn1.secure.raxcdn.com/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/8/18090_7.jpg



Let's do costing on that:

The Balsa: one sheet is ~ £30 and can do 144 seperate feet (2 layers of 47mm squares). Cost per foot: 21p

6mm Carbon Fibre rod from model shop: £6.50/m . Cost per foot: (needs 5 x 47mm rods) £1.63

Paint: 300ml for £1 at poundland. Cost per foot: Estimate 2p (based on covering 0.3 sq metres with one can)

Total per foot: £1.86 Total per set: £5.58



Can churn these out at about 10 sets an hour at least, being slow and with the paint already dry.


For my next trick I shall be selling "stylus cleaning putty" on a cocktail stick for £8 a pop when it's just watchmakers putty at £3 a box cut into 5 small bits...

Sam if I'm honest I would have to say it's your attitude that makes me sick and crazy. They guy who made these had to do the research, source the materials, do the design etc. He then has to make and ship them, pay for advertising and marketing so people know about and can buy the product. Yet you deny him any profit for his skill, frankly if everyone was like you all innovation in this field or any other would cease. It is shameful to have your attitude and this is the reason I no longer develop Hi Fi products.

[struth]

Sam if I'm honest I would have to say it's your attitude that makes me sick and crazy. They guy who made these had to do the research, source the materials, do the design etc. He then has to make and ship them, pay for advertising and marketing so people know about and can buy the product. Yet you deny him any profit for his skill, frankly if everyone was like you all innovation in this field or any other would cease. It is shameful to have your attitude and this is the reason I no longer develop Hi Fi products.

You forgot ...test them and tune them etc, but i agree. They were not expensive on ebay tbh. Dont know what MG adds in the price but there is adspace and guarentee returns etc too... Thats the reason i didnt develop and sell my inventions

[PaulStewart]

Grant I get this all the time with the record cleaner, somebody posted on eBay that £12.99 was over priced. Postage is 3.90 then there's the PayPal and eBay fees. Not to mention cost of materials l, packaging etc. That's why I may close that business down.

[Audio Advent]

Sam if I'm honest I would have to say it's your attitude that makes me sick and crazy.

That's ok - I do understand that position. But it seems to me to be defending to the death the right for someone to innovate etc but so much so that you may be being blind to the reality of whether there is any innovation involved at all. To me this "product" is well-intentioned pottering in the shed all the way.

If I make something that falls apart and then put a couple of screws in to make it not fall apart, have I "Innovated" a constuction method, the precise positions to put those screws. And so much so that I should be rewarded for my "innovation" ? Where does innovation start and end?

You also seem to want to ignore whether a product is marketable or not at a certain price - if something can be made by a lay person easily, with no skill for £5.50 a set and yet a shop is trying to sell them for £35 then where is the assessment of viability of the product? OK, from Mark Grant's (now that the shop has been mentioned - I refrained on purpose) point of view he only has to offer some kind of sale or return deal, on-demand supply contract and he is on a win-win and can just take the profit for his advertising/marketing/sale reach for nothing more than a phone call to get some in when if they're ordered. That's a fairly normal business model for much supply of course.


They guy who made these had to do the research, source the materials, do the design etc.

Where is your evidence for any research at all? It's imagined on your part. It fits your ideology of defending the commercialisation of "innovation" to the hilt to believe there is some kind of innovation here and that there is always some innovation.

As I see it (of course imagined too, but it fits more with other things like this on ebay e.g. people making cables out of stuff to hand) this guy has got some materials to hand, quite possibly for free via work or picked up somewhere, and then just had a VAGUE notion of putting a soft and hard material together as some kind of "constrained layer damping" - a common catch phrase for hifi support/plinth DIY. So he's stuck two different materials together in that vein. No reasearch.

Of course sprayed them black for a bit of WAF.

In fact, my original thought - now I've remembered how they are made - which seems likely to me, is that the carbon rod is ONLY there because the balsa he used is in two ready cut sections and will otherwise bend in half without something stiff going across that cut. Carbon rod was to hand.

See how the design has now changed from this "researched" product! The very high, poor aesthetic stacked rods have now been changed to a flat layer of rods.

One might have assumed there was some purposful design there - the stacked rods provide some kind of lossy interface on their small contact area with each other - but no, that has been scrapped (I'm guessing for aesthetic, saleability reasons) and so that can't have been an essential part of design and therefore not a "researched" design.

And then when he decided to sell them on ebay because he felt they made a difference to his gear (or not - who's to ever say?) he tried to make them look "special" and "reseached" in the true tradition of audiophile foo (not saying that these are, but it's a definate marketing strategy of real foo) by adding a bit of brass rod... on just one of them! What a mystery! Why just one?? "Must be special.... and science can't say why it works because science doesn't know everything does it?" etc

But see how the brass rod has now been removed (I'm guessing on manufacturing cost grounds, because it was there for no reason) and instead a dot been placed on one for the same reasons as above - I can imagine this coming from a conversation about their marketing with the online shop before agreeing on the sale terms "get the ease of build and manufacturing costs down but try to keep some audiophile USP in there". So one of the feet is different, using smaller rods and a bit of brass used in a completely different manor to make up the height difference.


He then has to make and ship them, pay for advertising and marketing so people know about and can buy the product.

Making them: spray the whole balsa sheet black as one - 10 mins and leave to dry. Cut carbon rod to legths (I do this at work with wood often) can cut about 40 in a minute, taking care not to chop your fingers (faster with less care). Glueing them together - easily 30 an hour whilst dancing to the radio in your shed. So... how much do you want an hour for making 10 sets? Just £5 of the cost towards labour - £50 an hour? Skilled work?

When he sold them on ebay there were no advertising costs, there was no marketing - forums have done that for free and likely got an online shop to take on the product too. Shipping (unless it was free shipping on ebay - good on him. Not free now) is part of the price on ebay and if you're not stupid, you include packing in that cost too.


Yet you deny him any profit for his skill, frankly if everyone was like you all innovation in this field or any other would cease. It is shameful to have your attitude and this is the reason I no longer develop Hi Fi products.

See above about "skill". If you consider taking the time to bother to make something as "Skill" then you use a different definition to me.

If you have a product that is genuinely innovative then it will sell and people will see the value added in your product. If people of my sceptical attitude have prevented you from developing hifi products then I would respectfully suggest that your products weren't innovative enough or didn't have enough value added to prevent such sceptics from shooting them down nor people seeing the genuine value in them.

Business is a dog eat dog world! If your product can be made exactly the same by a lay person for 7th of the price with no skill, no problems obtaining the raw materials then it doesn't in any way deserve automatic success. The DIYer is part of the competition! If you can't compete then tough - that's capitalism for you. Of course part of competing is also a marketing/PR game - you can win over potential customers via PR alone.

[Audio Advent]

What would be interesting is if there is now and exclusivity agreement between the guy and the shop.

Can these still be purchased for £18 direct?

[Audio Advent]

P.S. Paul - see my previous post in this thread where I state that his ebay price isn't bad for paying someone to make them for you. So you may be going to far in your reaction.

[CageyH]

Looks for the yawn emoticon....

:zzz:

Found it.

You have made your point in the past.
It's easy to copy something and break down the component cost, but not so easy to come up with something original that works.

[brian2957]

Yes , these work and also better more expensive products . I use them under my music server and my DAC and they will be staying there :)
Easily worth the money IMO .

[Audio Advent]

Looks for the yawn emoticon....

:zzz:

Found it.

You have made your point in the past.
It's easy to copy something and break down the component cost, but not so easy to come up with something original that works.

That's what I would have said too. Paul was new to the discussion and reacted the most adversely - so needed it broken down perhaps, gone into more depth.

Yawn away - this is not for your entertaiment ! :)

[Pieoftheday]

Yes , these work and also better more expensive products . I use them under my music server and my DAC and they will be staying there :)
Easily worth the money IMO .

Where would can I buy these Rockin rollers please? Sorry if I've missed it in the thread. Mark grant,jjust seen it:)

[mikeyb]

A couple of ten quid drivers and a box, feck me I've made a speaker bet I could sell that for thousands.

Some transistors, a box and some solder, feck me I've built an amp, bet I could sell that for thousands.

Some negativity, some complaining and the internet, feck me I've built bugger all except a reputation for being a pain in the arse. Bet I can sell that for feck all, cos let's face it negative moaning faced buggers are ten a penny ;)

[mikeyb]

I'm sorry of my last post has caused and offence, it was meant to.

Oh and Paul, it's most definitely not aimed at you, I like your products, and I also own some bits of balsa wood to go under my amp ;)

[Audio Advent]

Yes , these work and also better more expensive products . I use them under my music server and my DAC and they will be staying there :)
Easily worth the money IMO .

More expensive products - just goes to show what foo there is out there that doesn't work and how much is asked for that!

When you say good value, is it good value at now twice the price for the same thing? The only reason for the double price is to pay for advertising, marketing, access to a particular market. The consumer is being asked to pay for increased sales and services of someone to do that for them.

I don't see that paying double now increases the effectiveness of the product.

Does it not grate that someone should pass the costs on to the consumer in order to speculate at making greater sales? Surely the greater sales should be the reward in itself? Or in other words, now the consumer is being asked to give a third party profit with nothing in return - just expected to put up or shut up I guess.

And then again - repeating myself but no-one has bothered to answer - is it good value if it turns out that balsa alone makes the same sonic difference without all the contrived construction with the carbon rods.

But I imagine there would naturally be a lot of belligerence toward anyone who might make people suddenly feel their purchase is suddenly poor value after having praised it so much publically.

[Audio Advent]

A couple of ten quid drivers and a box, feck me I've made a speaker bet I could sell that for thousands.

Some transistors, a box and some solder, feck me I've built an amp, bet I could sell that for thousands.

Some negativity, some complaining and the internet, feck me I've built bugger all except a reputation for being a pain in the arse. Bet I can sell that for feck all, cos let's face it negative moaning faced buggers are ten a penny ;)

Building the amplifier requires a fair amount of skill and knowledge unless it's a white paper example circuit - those should be called out too.

But yes, I agree with you about the speakers. And who are you talking about who's built a reputation? And the rest really does not make any sense.. sell what?

[Audio Advent]

Where would can I buy these Rockin rollers please? Sorry if I've missed it in the thread. Mark grant,jjust seen it:)

Now from Mark Grant - give them a try. Sadly now twice the price as they used to be with arguably a lesser design. Could try getting some direct at the original price by messaging the original seller on ebay via the ebay link much earlier in the thread. Would be interesting to see if they will sell them at £18 now.

If you get some, pull them apart bit by bit and see which part of it makes the difference (if you think they do in the first place of course). Might be the same as just a soft peice of wood placed under your gear.

[brian2957]

Where would can I buy these Rockin rollers please? Sorry if I've missed it in the thread. Mark grant,jjust seen it:)

You can now get them here James https://markgrant.co.uk/accessories/324-electric-beach-rockin-rollers-x2.html

[Pieoftheday]

You can now get them hers James https://markgrant.co.uk/accessories/324-electric-beach-rockin-rollers-x2.html

Ta Brian, may try some when I get my quad back

[Mark Grant]

Mark Grant has them for sale in what looks like a Mark 3 version

There have been a few revisions since the earlier version of X2 and everything that Steve has changed has been for a good reason and has made improvements to the performance, appearance and for ease of use.

Steve is still calling them an X2 but more like an X5 or X6 now if revision numbers had been counted.

Comments from people that have bought and tried them have been excellent.

[brian2957]

I'm still using the original feet under my server and they're excellent . Looks like Electric Beach have refined these to make them a little bit more user friendly . These feet saw off some much more expensive supports in my system :)

[struth]

Me too. Ive got 2 sets, and love em.