2M Black alternative replacement?

[Jimbo]

I have had my 2M Black cartridge for about 2 -3 years now and although it is getting plenty of use it is still sounding OK. However I fancy a change and would even consider a MC:eek: which would be a new prospect for myself having never owned one.

I find the 2M very good indeed but in my system I find it is giving quite an upfront in your face performance and would like to try something a little more laid back. I think this cartridge has a fairy healthy output and with the Croft it does come across a bit too powerful sometimes which has me running to turn down the juice!

I am probably looking for something that is not quite pipe and slippers but something I between this and the 2M.

Could anyone give me some suggestions, both MM and MC but not too expensive. I am looking at maximum SP£V.

[Firebottle]

If your not going to be making your mind up quickly I will be bringing my MC equipped Lenco headshell over in Dec so you can have a listen.

[struth]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-ORTOFON-MC-25-FL-PICK-UP-WITH-SME-VINTAGE-HEADSHELL-NEARMINT-CONDITION-/161566350914?hash=item259e1ade42

[Jimbo]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-ORTOFON-MC-25-FL-PICK-UP-WITH-SME-VINTAGE-HEADSHELL-NEARMINT-CONDITION-/161566350914?hash=item259e1ade42

That looks a bit different Grant, have you heard one.

[Jimbo]

If your not going to be making your mind up quickly I will be bringing my MC equipped Lenco headshell over in Dec so you can have a listen.

Yep definitely have a listen to that Alan, look forward too it! Looks like we are going to have a Lenco bake off:)

[struth]

got one on at moment. Great carts and quite rare now. sublime carts with the fine line stylii..

[Barry]

got one on at moment. Great carts and quite rare now. sublime carts with the fine line stylii..

I'm about to try one myself. :)

[struth]

I'm about to try one myself. :)

you are? have you just aquired one or about to :)

[Barry]

you are? have you just aquired one or about to :)

I have generously been loaned one with low mileage, with the option to buy at a very reasonable price (much, much lower than the one you cited on eBay). :)

[struth]

anything south of £200 is a great buy, as have seen them regularly make 250/300. I got mine from that well known cart hoarder/ mod, Geoff:)

[Barry]

anything south of £200 is a great buy, as have seen them regularly make 250/300. I got mine from that well known cart hoarder/ mod, Geoff:)

Try half that amount. :)

[struth]

if you dont want it send it to me ;)

[NRG]

I had a 25FL for a number of years, IMHO it's a highly detailed and 'clean' sounding cartridge. Ultimately I found it lacked 'body' and engagement and could sound over bright on some recordings. I'm not sure it is a step up from the Black TBH.

[RobbieGong]

There was a similar thread here a while ago regarding the Black. For similar money it's arguably hard to better IMO

[petrat]

I have had my 2M Black cartridge for about 2 -3 years now and although it is getting plenty of use it is still sounding OK. However I fancy a change and would even consider a MC:eek: which would be a new prospect for myself having never owned one.

I find the 2M very good indeed but in my system I find it is giving quite an upfront in your face performance and would like to try something a little more laid back. I think this cartridge has a fairy healthy output and with the Croft it does come across a bit too powerful sometimes which has me running to turn down the juice!

I am probably looking for something that is not quite pipe and slippers but something I between this and the 2M.

Could anyone give me some suggestions, both MM and MC but not too expensive. I am looking at maximum SP£V.

I had a 2M Black for a while, and agree with your comments. From what you say, I would strongly suggest a Cartridgeman Musicmaker ... it does exactly what you're looking for. Detailed, dynamic, big tone and fluid, all at once. I had one some years ago, and fully intend to revisit it again in the future. It would also be a very good match with both your arm and preamp. Suggest you call Len Gregory and have a chat ... see if he can do you a deal.
http://www.thecartridgeman.com/index.htm

[walpurgis]

I have generously been loaned one with low mileage, with the option to buy at a very reasonable price (much, much lower than the one you cited on eBay). :)

You'll definitely like that Barry. I parted with mine because the ZYX R50 Bloom just (and only just) edged it, although if anything the MC25 FL is more 'vibrant', the ZYX slightly more 'spacious'. But there's nothing in it really enjoyment wise. Both are very musical.

[walpurgis]

I had a 25FL for a number of years, IMHO it's a highly detailed and 'clean' sounding cartridge. Ultimately I found it lacked 'body' and engagement and could sound over bright on some recordings. I'm not sure it is a step up from the Black TBH.

Strange. I've had two and found them full bodied, beautifully open and dynamic with no harshness or brightness at all.

[struth]

Strange. I've had two and found them full bodied, beautifully open and dynamic with no harshness or brightness at all.

yes, I'd agree. a super cart, and is still highly regarded in many quarters. many say ortofon stopped making it as they were not making enough money on it;)

[NRG]

Not strange at all. I had two, bent the cantilever on the first and the replacement sounded exactly the same as the first. It's a good cartridge but I'm not convinced it will better the Black. The Rondo Bronze was quite a step up in refinement and quality and I'd be looking at something in the same price range to better a Black.

[montesquieu]

Audio Note IQ2 or IQ3.

[Jimbo]

Ok so I have had a long weekend looking at my options and considering what I am trying to achieve which is a warmer , lush sound than the 2M Black I am going to try a Denon 103R. This will also mean a little surgery to the Croft :) and my first foray into MC cartridges.

Anyone recommend where best I get one from?

[Idlewithnodrive]

I had a 2M Black for a while, and agree with your comments. From what you say, I would strongly suggest a Cartridgeman Musicmaker ... it does exactly what you're looking for. Detailed, dynamic, big tone and fluid, all at once. I had one some years ago, and fully intend to revisit it again in the future. It would also be a very good match with both your arm and preamp. Suggest you call Len Gregory and have a chat ... see if he can do you a deal.
http://www.thecartridgeman.com/index.htm

I entirely agree with Peter here.

I went from a 2M Black (great cart but a touch too hi-fi / uninvolving for me and a total mare to set up properly) to an IQ3 and IQ2 which are as detailed etc but have a bit more soul. I have only heard the Musicmaker in other peoples systems but they are even more musical than my IQ2 / 3 so that is where I am heading next :)

[NRG]

Ok so I have had a long weekend looking at my options and considering what I am trying to achieve which is a warmer , lush sound than the 2M Black I am going to try a Denon 103R. This will also mean a little surgery to the Croft :) and my first foray into MC cartridges.

Anyone recommend where best I get one from?

You are going to need some serious mass on that tone arm for a 103, not sure that's the right direction to take TBH

[Jimbo]

You are going to need some serious mass on that tone arm for a 103, not sure that's the right direction to take TBH
Ah I didn't think of that Neal. Might have to have a think if i want to mess with tonearm aswell?

[dhemen]

I wouldnt say 103r is a warm sounded cart if this is what you are looking for..

[walpurgis]

Ok so I have had a long weekend looking at my options and considering what I am trying to achieve which is a warmer , lush sound than the 2M Black I am going to try a Denon 103R. This will also mean a little surgery to the Croft :) and my first foray into MC cartridges.

Anyone recommend where best I get one from?

If you want warmer and more lush I'd suggest paying a bit more for one of these.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2yy412e.jpg

I've had the 103R and the R50 Bloom running alongside each other and there's no comparison really. The ZYX is several levels above in sheer musicality and has a huge depth and soundstage. Great presence too. You need a good SUT to get the best from it though (and from the 103R).

[Jimbo]

If you want warmer and more lush I'd suggest paying a bit more for one of these.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2yy412e.jpg

I've had the 103R and the R50 Bloom running alongside each other and there's no comparison really. The ZYX is several levels above in sheer musicality and has a huge depth and soundstage. Great presence too. You need a good SUT to get the best from it though (and from the 103R).

Just been looking at the ZYX cartridges Geoff but never heard one. There is quite a range. Have you heard any of the pricier ones?

[walpurgis]

Yes. I own the R100, R100 H2 and R100 Yatra H as well as the R50 Bloom. They are each superb, but have differing sound balances. The R100 H2 is more fast and analytical sounding, in the kind of way Deccas are. The Yatra is rather similar to the R50 Bloom H in presentation, being very open, lush and quite warm and full bodied, with a huge soundstage, but is more revealing than the R50. The R100 falls somewhere between the Yatra and R100 H2. They are lovely MCs. Do not think of the R50 Bloom as a 'poor relative' to the others. It is not and is superb in its own way, sounding substantial and hugely transparent. I'm happy listening to all of them (not at once obviously :))

[Jimbo]

Yes. I own the R100, R100 H2 and R100 Yatra H as well as the R50 Bloom. They are each superb, but have differing sound balances. The R100 H2 is more fast and analytical sounding, in the kind of way Deccas are. The Yatra is rather similar to the R50 Bloom H in presentation, being very open, lush and quite warm and full bodied, with a huge soundstage, but is more revealing than the R50. The R100 falls somewhere between the Yatra and R100 H2. They are lovely MCs. Do not think of the R50 Bloom as a 'poor relative' to the others. It is not and is superb in its own way, sounding substantial and hugely transparent. I'm happy listening to all of them (not at once obviously :))

Wow Geoff, you must have one hell of a collection of cartridges!:eek:

ZYX is not a manufacturer I have considered but considering the Bloom is about the price of the 2M Black I will investigate further.

[walpurgis]

There's a sensible and honest review here.

http://www.dagogo.com/zyx-bloom-low-output-moving-coil-phone-cartridge-review

I believe Paul at RFC on here (trade) is handling UK ZYX imports currently. If you are interested, it may pay to have a chat with him. (tell him I sent you :lol:)

I know he has a high regard for the R50 Bloom. I've chatted with him on here about it and he holds similar opinions to myself.

[walpurgis]

A link to a link :).

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33710-Zyx-R-50(H)-Bloom-Low-Output-MC-Cartridge

[helma]

How about a Denon DL-301? I haven't owned one but seems a rather warm sounding cartridge but with nice, lush highs, and wouldn't break the bank either (and work well in medium mass arms). I don't think it would be an update on the 2M Black though, but I'm figuring for a first MC it wouldn't be a bad place to be and at least it would be 'different' :)

[walpurgis]

How about a Denon DL-301?

I've owned one and a DL-304. They're inoffensive and the 304 is very detailed and quite refined, but does not put the sound forth in a very full bodied way. Rather similar to the Transfiguration Aria in presentation.