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Macca
27-09-2015, 10:27
I've been living with these speakers for a few days now and have put a fair few hours on them already. That has not been difficult since they have that rare quality of being very easy on the ear without sounding dull or rolled-off in any way.

Here is a picture (which I pinched from Geoff's sale thread as it is better than anything I could take):

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/TLS50_2.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/TLS50_2.jpg.html)

For those unfamiliar with the transmission line, the idea is to take the rear wave from the driver and run it down an infinitely long line until it dissipates. For practical purposes an infinite line is impossible so the idea here is to attenuate higher frequencies from the rear wave progressively and output what is left, in phase, from the vents at the bottom of the front baffle, thus augmenting the bass response.

Here is a link to a more detailed description of the speaker:

http://www.imf-electronics.com/Home/imf/speaker-range/studios/tls50

You may also want to check out the IMF Transmission Line Babe Contest here: http://www.imf-electronics.com/Home/imf-transmission-line-babe-contest ;)

I could blab on about the sound of these speakers - and I will :) - but this quote from the user manual pretty much sums them up:

The IMF 'TLS' are advanced versions of the transmission line reproducer which was developed some years ago to aid in laboratory research. They incorporate the latest and most refined drive systems enclosed in new and radically re-designed transmission lines. These speakers are for use with the best equipment. A 'TLS' is a sophisticated speaker; its virtues will not be apparent to the novitiate who will want something more obvious. lt will be most appreciated by the cognoscenti.

The sound is polite and sophisticated but still draws you in. I did notice on some material that I thought some low level detail was a bit smothered - I suppose this is a price you pay for low efficiency, but it is not a serious enough issue to be a deal-breaker, and my reaction to this will be heightened having been using very high efficiency speakers for the last year and a half. Without the transmission line loading you would have a pair of very sophisticated 4 way bridge monitors. But all that cabinet under the driver array is there for a reason so let's move on to the transmission line bass.

The first thing you notice is that it is not at all big or overblown. Matching speakers to a room, especially big speakers, is a fundamental basic in the quest to get a good sound. No amount of cable or box swapping will cure a bad speaker/room match. I can imagine these speakers close to a wall in a small room just sounding way too 'heavy' and 'leaden' - fortunately I am able to place them well out into space (about 8' from the rear wall) so no issues there. In fact I would say it is pretty much ideal for them.

Play some rock music and you get a pleasing bit of weight to the bass, even with a dry recording, whilst thin recordings are fleshed out just a little. This isn't stunt bass from a port or an artificially accentuated mid-bass, though, it is just a low end 'presence' that does not really appear to come from the speakers themselves. There is just no effort to it. I am reminded of the big JBLs I heard recently at the Cranage Hall show. Don't get me wrong these are not as good as that but they have that same effortless quality in the bass that only a big speaker tuned to go properly low can do. Plus I am not getting any room boom problems like they had at Cranage :)

Indeed nothing I could play set them off in the bass like that. Stick on a bouncy rock/pop record like The Pretenders 'Don't get me wrong' and the bass line romps along, no lag or unevenness at all. Put on something with serious LF content such as Black Grape's 'It's Great When Your Straight' and be amazed - at the end of this album there is a sub sonic bass pulse, a bit like the heartbeat on DSOTM. The only speakers I have owned that could have a stab at reproducing this was the Celestion A2, which made it a bit of a drone rather than a pulse. But these IMFs absolutely nail it - it energises the room. Very impressive indeed.

However it was on this same album that I caught the speaker's Achilles heel. At the end of one track there is a deep synth bass line with a bass guitar above it playing a repeated, descending riff which is quite vital to the rhythmic cohesiveness of the track. This was buried in the synth bass line when it should be audible above it. Indeed knowing this track well I was listening for it subconsciously and then noticed that my mind was filling it in as it was barely audible. Only on the fade did it emerge.

So not perfect, then but hey! what speaker is? Comments and contributions welcome, especially from other IMF/TDL owners or former owners, I would be interested in your experiences.

walpurgis
27-09-2015, 10:44
Have you played around with cables at all Martin. Including interconnects. What suited the Akais may not be the same for the IMFs. I find cable choices are definitely influential on the overall balance and this is very noticeable with a change of speakers.

Macca
27-09-2015, 10:59
I try to avoid playing with cables if I can help it. The interconnects are NVA and I have found from extensive (and I mean extensive) trials that it is best to use the NVA interconnects with the NVA passive pre.

Speaker cable is a different matter. I'm using Chord Odyssey 2 at the moment, what might be a better option?

walpurgis
27-09-2015, 11:35
I try to avoid playing with cables if I can help it. The interconnects are NVA and I have found from extensive (and I mean extensive) trials that it is best to use the NVA interconnects with the NVA passive pre.

Speaker cable is a different matter. I'm using Chord Odyssey 2 at the moment, what might be a better option?

I take your point regarding the NVA cable with NVA amplification. But source to pre is always worth trying options with. My preference here being pure copper avoiding silver plated stuff, which can add a 'sheen' or even a coarseness. Not always the case though.

As for speaker cables, there's no limit to the varying balances they offer in their effect on the sound. They do vary a lot. Try and borrow some for comparisons. I can't comment on the Chord, as I've not tried that (even though I've used an awful lot of different cables).

I've got a spare 2.5m pair of QED Genesis Sliver Spiral knocking about that you can have if you want something to experiment with. They have odd plugs on one end that makes no difference to the sound that I can hear. They're very lucid cables. I've got about ten pairs of different speaker cables and won't be using these in the current setup. I got them from Rob (puffin).

Macca
27-09-2015, 11:48
Thanks for the offer but I would need 4 metres a side, ideally a bit more.

In any case I am pretty satisfied with the sound as it is. Next change will be to try the new Firebottle amp once Alan has knocked it up.

Firebottle
27-09-2015, 14:05
...'knocked it up'... you cheeky beggar :eek:

Love and commitment go into my builds I'll have you know :ner:

:)

walpurgis
27-09-2015, 14:49
Yes indeed. That should have been 'banged together'! :D

mikeyb
19-03-2017, 10:16
Bit of thread resurrection here, but would they be any good in a room approx 14.5ft x 13.5ft, suspended wooden floors with heavy wood laminate and a rug up top.

Speakers would be firing down the length of the room with rear wall behind being brick and thermal block inner.

I know my wife will absolutely hate them but it's a reasonably cheap experiment IF they are ok in the room of course.

😀

Macca
19-03-2017, 10:29
I think that might be a bit too small a space, Mike. The bass energy has to be heard to be believed. You'd be okay until you played something that set off a low bass node then you'd realise it was a mistake. My room is big, more than twice yours, and open plan to upstairs but they can still energise the whole space in a serious way. I suppose if you keep the levels down you might get away with it. I like it blasting out.

struth
19-03-2017, 10:43
Inclined to agree with Martin. These things can go seriously deep, and sound awful in wrong area

mikeyb
19-03-2017, 11:56
Thanks for the info guys, I'll leave them then, the ALS 40 might be more suitable?

Just have hankering to try something different fom my PMC 21's

;)

walpurgis
19-03-2017, 11:58
Thanks for the info guys, I'll leave them then, the ALS 40 might be more suitable?

Hardly. Have you heard the ALS40 Mike. They have an even fruitier bottom end than the pure transmission line IMFs.

mikeyb
19-03-2017, 11:59
Hardly. Have you heard the ALS40 Mike. They have an even fruitier bottom end than the pure transmission line IMFs.

obviously not lol - ok plan Z it is then :lol:

Geoff101
23-03-2017, 08:48
As per the advice above, I sold these because they were overpowering my living room, which whilst not massive, is not tiny either.
Making the whole room shake is quite funny, but not really hifi.
I was glad to see that they worked much better in Macca's larger room.

struth
23-03-2017, 08:53
Lol.

mikeyb
23-03-2017, 08:55
As per the advice above, I sold these because they were overpowering my living room, which whilst not massive, is not tiny either.
Making the whole room shake is quite funny, but not really hifi.
I was glad to see that they worked much better in Macca's larger room.

That seems the general consensus, mind you I do like to turn the wick up just a tad ( much to my daughters disgust) most days.

I think I've been given approval to go for something around the size of Harbeth 30's so the IMF's would be binned the minute they came through the door.

Now on the lookout for standmounts around 46cm x 28 x 28 or thereabouts, anything bigger and I'm pushing it [emoji6]

Haselsh1
23-03-2017, 09:43
You know guys, ever since I heard a pair of TDL Studio 1's around 1994 I wanted a pair but things moved on. I was offered a pair of the Studio 1m's but sadly I was a long way from them at the time with other commitments. So unfortunately I never got to own them but I adored their bass extension.

Macca
23-03-2017, 12:37
As per the advice above, I sold these because they were overpowering my living room, which whilst not massive, is not tiny either.
Making the whole room shake is quite funny, but not really hifi.
I was glad to see that they worked much better in Macca's larger room.

God knows what the neighbours made of them; mind you the JM labs I have now are not bass shy, either.

mikeyb
23-03-2017, 14:15
Thing is I'm looking for something to make the bass thunder but still retain great treble, is that possible is a speaker 18" tall and only 10-12" wide?

Even at that size the boss is going to take some convincing lol

walpurgis
23-03-2017, 14:22
Philips RH541! If you can find working examples.

Macca
23-03-2017, 14:51
Some form of transmission line? Small ones are not that impressive, though; as the actress said to the bishop.

'Ye canny change the laws of physics, captain.'

I'd upgrade the wife to one that will allow proper speakers to be deployed, but that's just me.

DSJR
13-09-2017, 10:27
Regarding old IMF's and TDL's of the 80's and early 90's, I'd suggest an amp with VERY high damping factor to even begin to hold the bass units together. No problems with the basic loads as IMF's weren't ever severely reactive - although some were 4 to 6 ohms I seem to remember.