View Full Version : Varying volume.
Mike - H
19-09-2015, 14:19
Right guys, I’m looking for anyone who has owned/used a XTZ A100 D3 amp for any length of time. Did you notice a huge difference in volume between phono and other sources? If I play a cd at a reasonable volume then select phono and put a LP on I lose a good 30-40% of volume.
This isn’t a huge problem when listening through my speakers, the amp is more than capable of picking up the shortfall. But when listening through headphones my Novo struggles, even full volume couldn’t be described as too loud.
Cheers
Yes I own one and yes there is a difference in volume - that is not unusual for an integrated amp phono stage, the gain is not normally set as high as for the line levels. I don't know why but I can't think of an amp I have owned that was not quieter on phono.
Sounds like you need a headphone amp with a higher output.
Yes I own one and yes there is a difference in volume - that is not unusual for an integrated amp phono stage, the gain is not normally set as high as for the line levels. I don't know why but I can't think of an amp I have owned that was not quieter on phono.
Thing is, it isn't right, and is due to sub-optimal component matching. Before I knew better, I also used to think the above was 'the norm', and that phono was automatically just 'quieter'. That was until I understood how to match the levels of my input sources properly (and discovered things such as SUTs, head amps, and phono stages with variable gain settings).
Now, playback levels, in my system, with CD and vinyl are near-identical. That's vital in order not to get a soft and 'weedy' sound, lacking in 'oomph', when playing records. Quite simply, there shouldn't be such a huge discrepancy between playback levels of CD and vinyl.
Mike, the situation with your headphones will be to do with an impedance mismatch between those and your Novo headphone amp. Essentially, the latter isn't 'driving' the former properly. The solution is to change one or the other, normally the headphones (for ones that are more sensitive), or have your headphone amp modified for optimal use with your Sens :)
Marco.
I think it could be due to this...
Despite most people now using digital sources with a nominal 2V max output, vintage tape machines and tuners still only output half a Volt to 775mV tops I believe from memory. The XTZ phono stage may just be somewhere in the middle of these extremes (I'm guessing here, so please bear with me). The output of the Nagaoka cartridge, being an upper model, may be lower than the once nominal 5mV/cm/s output (many top mm types offer 3mV at this level), so this may be adding to the difference.
To the OP. take comfort that you don't own a vintage Naim. Where twelve to one o'clock was fine for their vinyl boards (MC or MM) for good sound levels, with a CD source into either radio, tape or the CD-direct inputs of some models, the volume could be deafening at 'nine o'clock' with occasional clipping of the power amp to boot - I believe the electronic volume controls on many/all current models deal with this now.
Marco, my vintage Croft has a difference between CD line and the built-in phono stage, but it's not that great to be fair, but older amps designed pre CD will suffer with volume control 'cramping' unless the CD player has some sort of attenuation (not a problem as an L-pad is pretty well inaudible for most people I reckon and some amps have these hidden inside anyway I think).
I think it could be due to this...
Despite most people now using digital sources with a nominal 2V max output, vintage tape machines and tuners still only output half a Volt to 775mV tops I believe from memory. The XTZ phono stage may just be somewhere in the middle of these extremes (I'm guessing here, so please bear with me). The output of the Nagaoka cartridge, being an upper model, may be lower than the once nominal 5mV/cm/s output (many top mm types offer 3mV at this level), so this may be adding to the difference.
No doubt that could be part of it - that and a headphone/headphone amp impedance mismatch. These days I ensure that my phono stage has sufficient gain flexibility and loading requirements to optimise any cartridge I use, as that's a major part of achieving high-quality playback with vinyl.
To the OP. take comfort that you don't own a vintage Naim. Where twelve to one o'clock was fine for their vinyl boards (MC or MM) for good sound levels, with a CD source into either radio, tape or the CD-direct inputs of some models, the volume could be deafening at 'nine o'clock' with occasional clipping of the power amp to boot...
I know, tell me about it. I remember it with great fondness (not)! Once using Naim 'K' boards, and a DL-103, I had to turn the volume up to nearly 2 o'clock, on my (then) NAC52, in order to get decent listening levels with vinyl. It was a joke, and I've no idea why the boards were designed that way, with such pitiful amounts of gain.
Marco, my vintage Croft has a difference between CD line and the built-in phono stage, but it's not that great to be fair...
Cool. I just much prefer it when there is very little discrepancy, in that respect, between both, as it's a sign that all the components in the system are well-matched :)
Marco.
Haselsh1
19-09-2015, 15:57
I hadn't even thought about this until I just read this thread. My Croft preamp has little or no difference between inputs. I can easily switch between phono and CD without having to alter anything which is just as well as it has those bloody awful twin volume pots.
Mike - H
20-09-2015, 12:23
Thanks guys, the Novo/Sen combo work well together for CDs and streaming through my Sonos, so I’m reasonably happy with that. The Nagaoka cartridge did slightly add to the problem when I changed from a 2m blue. Before I had the XTZ I had an old Cambridge A300 which was well balanced, but nowhere near the quality of the XTZ.
I may borrow a Reflex M off Graham Slee and see if that sorts it. It should be noted that the problem can vary from LP to LP, I just bought a copy of Hotel California and it really brought the problem to the fore.
Simon_LDT
20-09-2015, 12:49
I've noticed this too, although the gap on my system isn't huge (usually about 4-6db difference on my pre-amp volume setting).
Also, some LP's are cut quieter than others. I've got some that I have to really crank more than others.
isobarik
20-09-2015, 13:39
" I remember it with great fondness (not)! Once using Naim 'K' boards, and a DL-103, I had to turn the volume up to nearly 2 o'clock, on my (then) NAC52, in order to get decent listening levels with vinyl. It was a joke, and I've no idea why the boards were designed that way, with such pitiful amounts of gain".
Hi Marco
I curently use a Naim 43.5 pre and have to advance the volume knob to 2 o'clock to get a decent sound level but even then it's not what you would call loud! Perhap's invest in a SUT.
Cheers,
Ray
Hi Ray,
Not sure what you mean... Are you talking about yourself investing in an SUT? I no longer use Naim equipment.
Marco.
isobarik
20-09-2015, 14:07
Hi Ray,
Not sure what you mean... Are you talking about yourself investing in an SUT? I no longer use Naim equipment.
Marco.
No not you Marco...me buying a SUT! Audiolab or something? but yet more boxes!!
Cheers,
Ray
Yeah, I thought so. Just checking... So which cartridge are you using?
Marco.
isobarik
20-09-2015, 14:15
I'm using either a AT-F5 OCC (Special Edition whatever that means!) Denon DL160 or a ADC moving coil cartridge. It's a pain in the **** changing the boards in the 42.5 all the time! Perhaps one day i'll change the 42.5? I use to have a Nad 1300....wish now i'd kept it.
Cheers, Ray
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