Fozgometer anyone?

[montesquieu]

I just got outbid for a fozgometer on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151804567342?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT :(

Does anyone have one I could borrow (to be returned packed up with a nice Scotch?) :D

[Marco]

Interesting wee gizmo! One would almost buy it for the name alone :)

Marco.

[struth]

used to use an adjustable laser level. worked a treat:)

[montesquieu]

used to use an adjustable laser level. worked a treat:)

Intrigued - how does that work then?

[struth]

just set it up to hit the head and adjust. I used to have a magnetic target that sat on top the shell for accuracy. was good for setting up lots of things with tt..... did shelves a treat too:lol: Someone nicked it:steam:


maybe should say that you first set it level to the platter then without changing it horizontal plane you then put it onto the shell and adj, that way the shell is level with the platter.

[Spectral Morn]

Buy one from the states near enough that price new 299 dollars.

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-1278-fosgate-fozgometer-azimuth-range-meter.aspx

We bit about it here http://www.analogplanet.com/content/fozgometer-owner-alert



Regards Neil

[montesquieu]

Buy one from the states near enough that price new 299 dollars.

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-1278-fosgate-fozgometer-azimuth-range-meter.aspx

We bit about it here http://www.analogplanet.com/content/fozgometer-owner-alert


Regards Neil


Saw that but for some reason price here is £350 upwards :mental:

[Spectral Morn]

Saw that but for some reason price here is £350 upwards :mental:

Indeed based on normal way things work it should be about the same pound to dollar. Find away and buy from USA. It doesn't plug into the mains and batteries are batteries.


Regards Neil

[Andrei]

Once I had someone set up my TT using a Fozgometer - I was highly impressed with the Foz and I have toying with idea of buying one. They are not too much dosh but would not be used frequently.

[montesquieu]

Here's a thought - any of our resident electronics experts able to put something like this together? Modify a multimeter or something? What is it measuring anyway?

[Firebottle]

Was thinking the same Tom. What is on the particular test tracks used with it, anyone know?

Different test tones on each channel or what?

:)

[shane]

Looking at the description of how it works, all you need to replicate it is a record with a mono test tone and an amplifier with a mono switch or a means of connecting the left and right channel inputs together. First you need to reverse the cartridge connections on one channel, then play a mono test tone. If everything is perfectly set up, the outputs of the two channels of the cartridge will now be identical but out of phase. Now press the mono switch and they will cancel each other out completely, resulting in no output. If the azimuth is incorrect, the output level from each channel will be different, so there will still be a signal. All you need to do then is to adjust the azimuth until that signal is at a minimum. It's unlikely that you will be able to get total cancellation because there will always be differences between the channels of the cartridge, but as long as you get the minimum point, the azimuth will be as good as it can get.

Don't forget to put the cartridge leads back the right way round when you've finished. In some cartridges one pin on one channel is earthed to the cartridge body. Shure usually do this. In this case you will need to reverse the leads on the other channel.

IIRC the old HFS69 and HFS75 test records had a track with a 300hz test tone recorded out of phase (ie a perfect vertical modulation). If you have one of those, you don't need to swap the cartridge leads. Just pressing the mono button should result in near silence.

if your amp doesn't have a mono button, get a small box with four phono sockets, and a switch. Wire the input sockets direct to the outputs, and wire the switch to short left and right signals together when closed.

Simples.

[daytona600]

Saw that but for some reason price here is £350 upwards :mental:

£259 or £279 with the Analogue Productions test LP
you really need a test record for this

[Spectral Morn]

£259 or £279 with the Analogue Productions test LP
you really need a test record for this

Thats more the price I thought it should retail here at. End of the day Rockford Fosgate are a big company, they have a direct presence in Europe so this item doesn't really need an importer as such. Usual model is that the exchange rate difference allows a mark up for an importer/distributor and retailer so £350 appears a tad greedy in my opinion.

However realistically this is only any good for those with deatachable headshells where the side to side set up of the cart can be altered/adjusted.


Regards Neil

[montesquieu]

Thats more the price I thought it should retail here at. End of the day Rockford Fosgate are a big company, they have a direct presence in Europe so this item doesn't really need an importer as such. Usual model is that the exchange rate difference allows a mark up for an importer/distributor and retailer so £350 was a tad greedy in my opinion.

However realistically this is only any good for those with deatachable headshells where the side to side set up of the cart can be altered/adjusted.


Regards Neil


Well looks like I'm in place with most of the relevant:

Phono stage with mono button - check (and preamp as well)
HFN test record - check
Arm with removable headshells - check

(actually I have 5 cartridges currently set up on headshells, most are adjustable for azimuth - Three Miyajimas (Shilabe, Zero mono and Premium 78), a Goldring 600 for early mono, and a Shure M77/4 with a range of tips for different eras of 78)

I guess I can use the test record to do this by ear then .... though I kind of like the measurement approach.

[Spectral Morn]

Well looks like I'm in place with most of the relevant:

Phono stage with mono button - check (and preamp as well)
HFN test record - check
Arm with removable headshells - check

(actually I have 5 cartridges currently set up on headshells, most are adjustable for azimuth - Three Miyajimas (Shilabe, Zero mono and Premium 78), a Goldring 600 for early mono, and a Shure M77/4 with a range of tips for different eras of 78)

I guess I can use the test record to do this by ear then .... though I kind of like the measurement approach.

I know someone local to me who has one, offered me a loan, but being honest over all the years I have been setting up carts, either for myself or others I have never felt the need to employ something like this. Not saying there isn't a benefit, but test records and measuring devices always smacked of insecurity and folks being way too anal for their own good, to me. In saying that never say never.


Regards Neil

[montesquieu]

I know someone local to me who has one, offered me a loan, but being honest over all the years I have been setting up carts, either for myself or others I have never felt the need to employ something like this. Not saying there isn't a benefit, but test records and measuring devices always smacked of insecurity and folks being way too anal for their own good, to me. In saying that never say never.


Regards Neil


It's just curiosity. I know for a fact that first a Clearaudio gizmo, followed by a Dr Freickert's one, has made a difference to how well I've manged cartridge alignment compared to paper templates etc. I'm just wondering whether this would also be of interest.

I've also been setting cartridges up for many years but that's not to say I haven't (quite recently) been able to improve how I do it. I'm still very pleased with myself when I do setup by eye and then find it all measure spot on (as happened this weekend) but that's come from a lot of trial and error. But I'm always open to the possibility of improvement.

Without spending a packet of course - for £350 (or even £250) my eye will have to do.

[shane]

I guess I can use the test record to do this by ear then .... though I kind of like the measurement approach.

You could always put a multimeter across the speaker terminals. It may not give a true reading at 300 hz but it'll help you find the null point.

[Arkless Electronics]

Here's a thought - any of our resident electronics experts able to put something like this together? Modify a multimeter or something? What is it measuring anyway?

Yep but couldn't undercut the price so no point....

[montesquieu]

Yep but couldn't undercut the price so no point....

Wasn't thinking so much about a boxed-up product as some suggestions how to do it using a multimeter, which were made above ... I'm going to have a crack at it anyway. I've had mixed success using the track mentioned above and a mono button to do it by ear, as it's hard to hear amplitude changes, a proper measurement would be better, without doubt.

[A.Grail]

I've got a Fozgometer + test LP if you want a borrow ;)

[montesquieu]

Finally got my hands on one of these.

First thing was to calibrate it - http://www.analogplanet.com/content/fozgometer-owner-alert#QgohMzS3SKd0jbRp.97 - though on the unit I have here only minimal adjustment was needed.

Then put it to use - only to find that none of the cartridges I've got on headshells at the moment needed any adjustment at all - all were 100% spot on when I had set them up visually. Well impressed with myself so I was! Nice though to be able to verify it with a measuring tool.

[Marco]

Nice one, Tom.

It also shows that you (and most likely many others) are perfectly capable of using their senses with some accuracy, when applied to audio tasks.

How many times have you also arrived at the 'optimal' VTF figure, by ear, only to find out (without looking) that the value selected is exactly what the manufacturer stipulates in the manual as 'optimal'? Or your tonearm (VTA) has ended up being bang on level, adjusted by eye, and later confirmed as such with a spirit level? I could go on... ;)

Yet for some reason we often consider that man-made measurement apparatus is *automatically* more accurate than our God-given senses..... Silly, innit?

The reality is that sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't, but never automatically presume so one way or the other! :exactly:

Marco.

[topoxforddoc]

Just reviving this thread. I've been thinking about getting a Fozgometer. Presumably it works with a low output MC as well. My Ortofon SL15ELL puts out only 0.125 mV and my Allaerts MC1B 0.2 mV.

[montesquieu]

Just reviving this thread. I've been thinking about getting a Fozgometer. Presumably it works with a low output MC as well. My Ortofon SL15ELL puts out only 0.125 mV and my Allaerts MC1B 0.2 mV.

Don't think it matters where you measure it, seems to work ok before or after the SUT on the Miyajimas, though I tend to run it after.

[topoxforddoc]

Hi Tom,

My TRON Meteor has the SUT's built into the integrated phono section. How does one use a Fozgometer in that situation?

Charlie

[montesquieu]

With kit of that quality you'd have to assume it's pretty evenly matched in both channels, so I'd just run it off the phono stage output. What it's measuring is the DIFFERENCE between the channels so the absolute gain isn't that important really, but 0.1 mV is probably borderline for using with the cartridge direct. No arm in trying though.

[topoxforddoc]

With kit of that quality you'd have to assume it's pretty evenly matched in both channels, so I'd just run it off the phono stage output. What it's measuring is the DIFFERENCE between the channels so the absolute gain isn't that important really, but 0.1 mV is probably borderline for using with the cartridge direct. No arm in trying though.

Thanks Tom. I'll let you know how I get on, when I get it.

[lurcher]

This is a good manual way of setting Azimuth,

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/crazy-little-thing-called-azimuth-part-2#Vj3SyQ6ZJQhiqv2v.97

I can make some guesses how the meter is working. What test track do you use with it?

The point of the method I linked to is it equalises the separation between L <-> R, and R <-> L

[montesquieu]

This is a good manual way of setting Azimuth,

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/crazy-little-thing-called-azimuth-part-2#Vj3SyQ6ZJQhiqv2v.97

I can make some guesses how the meter is working. What test track do you use with it?


1khz reference tone - track 1 on this http://www.stamfordaudio.co.uk/det/7704/Analogue_productions_The_Ultimate_Analogue_Test_Di sc/ though there is an equivalent on the HFN record.

[Ammonite Audio]

This thread is inspiring me to have another go with Feickert Adjust+, which has to be one of the clunkiest and outdated pieces of software written for Windows. I've ordered a Soundblaster USB sound device with built-in MM phono amp, so that should make the measurements a bit easier. It would be interesting at some point to compare the Adjust+ results with a Fozgometer.

[montesquieu]

This thread is inspiring me to have another go with Feickert Adjust+, which has to be one of the clunkiest and outdated pieces of software written for Windows. I've ordered a Soundblaster USB sound device with built-in MM phono amp, so that should make the measurements a bit easier. It would be interesting at some point to compare the Adjust+ results with a Fozgometer.

Crying out for a decent iPhone app ... Hmm I've got a mate who might be able to put something together.

[Ammonite Audio]

I'm down your way Tuesday next week for a meeting at RMAS. Are you at home that day?

[montesquieu]

I'm down your way Tuesday next week for a meeting at RMAS. Are you at home that day?

Would be great to see you Hugo, yes I'm in on Tuesday night, will PM on arrangements :)

[rockhopper]

I use the Adjust+ pro and find it superb for setting azimuth. The four other tests it comes with are extremely accurate and a bonus.

R.