View Full Version : Turntable Advice Please?
Hi guys, first off if this is in the wrong place then can a kindly mod move it, Thanks.
I am in the process of completely downsizing mainly because my listening habits have changed radically recently but also mainly because I had to free up some funds tied up in my Hi-Fi system.
My set up currently a pair of Dali Zensor 1 bookshelf speakers and a Pulse 160 integrated amp along with a Denon media player.
I have been looking at turntables (sold my SL-2100) and am at a bit of a crossroads cause I don't want to back down the modded road that I went down with the Technics so with that in mind my budget is about £300 to include a cart and arm etc.
I like the look of the Pro-ject Carbon with cart which comes in on budget or, maybe SH with a better cart and a bit cheaper too but I'm not really keene on belt drive decks and changing the belt to play 45s etc so would probably prefer a direct drive modern deck however I've also looked at Dual 1019, 1219, & 1229 along with the Dual DD decks such as 701 & 704 but i don't like the wooden plinths those decks come with usually.
I also like the look of the Technics SL-7, SL-10 & SL-15 but I'm not sure on the linear tracking arm decks or indeed the P carts that they come with but the decks look decent and I quite like the fact that you get a phono amp built into the Sl-10 & 15 and that the TT is the size of an LP.
Also like some of the Thorens decks too and again idler or DD but the idler ones are old now and quite expensive.
I came across this seller, below, on E-bay and really like the look of this Dual 1019 (so does my wife) plus the (similar plinthed 1219 & 704) that he has for sale and the price is okay for me, anyone heard anything about the seller?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111762068833?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Here's all of his items for sale, I've tried to find some reviews on him on google but there doesn't seem to be much if anything however his feedback on e-bay is pretty good.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/gs-audio/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
Thanks again in anticiptation.
Tony
Surprised no-one's helped Tony with this one... Come on guys, get your thinking caps on! ;)
Marco.
Ive got a thorens 160b mk2 at moment; ok its pimped but they are excellent decks for the money and a lot of upgrades are fairly cheap down to pennies. Put a decent arm on and you'll be surprised. Ive also had a project carbon speed box which is a nice deck too. build is obviously not in the same style but if you lift them onto a good bit of isolation then sound rather good.
walpurgis
21-09-2015, 21:52
I'd suggest something different. A good Goldring Lenco GL75 or GL78. They are stylish, very reliable, easy to work on and sound damn good with a suitable cartridge. The only problem you really get is aging 'V' bearings at the arm pivot and that is easy to sort out. New bearings are available (I made my own). The budget should cover a mint example with a decent MM cartridge.
Can you still get an SL10 for £300?
I have an SL6 - it is compact and cute and very solidly made: the sound quality is acceptable, fancy needles are available but not tried one - no end of side distortion since it is an LT - and you just put a record on, close the lid and press play - no muss no fuss.
It's not a serious hi-fi turntable but I think you are stretching it to get that for £300 including arm and cart, anyway. Unless you drop lucky somehow.
Thanks guys, just bought an SL-7 with a Technics EPC-P202 MM cart.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-SL-7-Fully-Automatic-Linear-Tracking-Turntable-P202C-stylus-/252098269247?clk_rvr_id=899397410106&hash=item3ab23a503f&rmvSB=true&nma=true&si=fiMUVxR0NThW52vBY2Aq6nMNcpw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Now on the lookout for a decent cheapo phonostage circa £60-ish?
Tony
Can you still get an SL10 for £300?
I have an SL6 - it is compact and cute and very solidly made: the sound quality is acceptable, fancy needles are available but not tried one - no end of side distortion since it is an LT - and you just put a record on, close the lid and press play - no muss no fuss.
It's not a serious hi-fi turntable but I think you are stretching it to get that for £300 including arm and cart, anyway. Unless you drop lucky somehow.
There's an SL-10 on ebay for £250 BIN plus postage from Portugal Martin but the cart is an aftermarket one and not a Technics.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251679674076?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Tony
Thanks guys, just bought an SL-7 with a Technics EPC-P202 MM cart.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-SL-7-Fully-Automatic-Linear-Tracking-Turntable-P202C-stylus-/252098269247?clk_rvr_id=899397410106&hash=item3ab23a503f&rmvSB=true&nma=true&si=fiMUVxR0NThW52vBY2Aq6nMNcpw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Now on the lookout for a decent cheapo phonostage circa £60-ish?
Tony
Hi Tony,
Nice score on the SL-7. Looks pretty minty! :)
For a phono stage, try this little NAD. They sound excellent for the money : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NAD-PP-2e-Digital-Phono-Preamp-MM-MC-/171843476866?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
:cool:
Marco.
Hi Tony,
Nice score on the SL-7. Looks pretty minty! :)
For a phono stage, try this little NAD. They sound excellent for the money : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NAD-PP-2e-Digital-Phono-Preamp-MM-MC-/171843476866?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
:cool:
Marco.
Thanks Marco, looks decent enought, cheers.
Tony
It's a nice sounding little unit, Tony. No 'frills' - all the money is spent where it matters :)
Marco.
I'd suggest something different. A good Goldring Lenco GL75 or GL78. They are stylish, very reliable, easy to work on and sound damn good with a suitable cartridge. The only problem you really get is aging 'V' bearings at the arm pivot and that is easy to sort out. New bearings are available (I made my own). The budget should cover a mint example with a decent MM cartridge.
Geoff can you recommend a good cheap MM cartridge for a GL75 Lenco using the original tonearm.
Sorry to but in on this thread.
walpurgis
22-09-2015, 10:36
Geoff can you recommend a good cheap MM cartridge for a GL75 Lenco using the original tonearm.
Sorry to but in on this thread.
Hi James.
Being largely an MC man for the last thirty years or more, I'm probably not the best to ask about modern MMs. I'd suggest any medium to lowish compliance MM from say Nagoaka, Audio Technica, Ortofon and the like, will do the job well. Avoid higher compliance cartridges. Those with a cu. value over 20 and you should be OK.
Hi James.
Being largely an MC man for the last thirty years or more, I'm probably not the best to ask about modern MMs. I'd suggest any medium to lowish compliance MM from say Nagoaka, Audio Technica, Ortofon and the like, will do the job well. Avoid higher compliance cartridges. Those with a cu. value over 20 and you should be OK.
Cheers Geoff, think I will go with an AT95E.
You can get a shibata stylus for these...they really make it sing
Firebottle
22-09-2015, 15:17
James I've got an AT110E you can have if you like :)
James I've got an AT110E you can have if you like :)
Cheers Alan but I have just ordered an AT95e. VPI is having a PSU Upgrade so decided to swing the Lenco into action.
Well guys the Technics SL-7 turned up today sans stylus, it's obviously either been damaged in transit or it was damaged before the guy posted it but there's no cantilever in the stylus carrier or indeed diamond, bit pissed off, the guy should have really packed the stylus separately in a box or something but he left it attached to the cart and the arm.
I've messaged him about it but in the meantime I don't suppose anyone has an old EPS-202ED stylus or equivalent just so that I can test the TT to ensure that it works okay?
The TT powers up fine and the arm moves to the start of the record but obviously the arm doesn't move beyond the start of the record due to the missing stylus.
Happy to buy the stylus BTW or pay for postage etc.
Thanks
Tony
Hear's the damaged stylus carrier
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2155_zpswwegu328.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2155_zpswwegu328.jpg.html)
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2156_zpst3asbiny.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2156_zpst3asbiny.jpg.html)
Here's the photo of the stylus in the ebay advert
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/_57_zpswtybhpyd.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/_57_zpswtybhpyd.jpg.html)
Well guys the Technics SL-7 turned up today sans stylus, it's obviously either been damaged in transit or it was damaged before the guy posted it but there's no cantilever in the stylus carrier or indeed diamond, bit pissed off, the guy should have really packed the stylus separately in a box or something but he left it attached to the cart and the arm.
What an idiot - you'd have thought he'd have known better! :doh: Honestly, it never ceases to amaze me how bloody careless/thoughtless folk can be.... :rolleyes:
Depending on the seller's reaction to the situation (as ultimately it's his fault for not packing things right), he deserves either negative or a neutral feedback, for his crass stupidity. Anyway, hope you manage to get the matter resolved to your satisfaction ASAP, Tony.
Marco.
What an idiot - you'd have thought he'd have known better! :doh: Honestly, it never ceases to amaze me how bloody careless/thoughtless folk can be.... :rolleyes:
Depending on the seller's reaction to the situation (as ultimately it's his fault for not packing things right), he deserves either negative or a neutral feedback, for his crass stupidity. Anyway, hope you manage to get the matter resolved to your satisfaction ASAP, Tony.
Marco.
Thanks Marco, looks like it is just a generic stylus so I think I'll buy a cheap replacement so that I can test the deck before giving him a hard time and hopefully he'll pay for the cheap stylus (£17) then I'll buy a Jico SAS one for about $130 or so.
Well the seller has been in touch and apparently has a replacement stylus which he's going to send me which is good, hopefully.
Tony
Good news - make sure he doesn't just put the replacement stylus in an envelope! ;)
Marco.
walpurgis
25-09-2015, 14:42
Well the seller has been in touch and apparently has a replacement stylus which he's going to send me which is good, hopefully.
Tony
Sounds like you could be a lucky lad. There are a few decent alternative 'P' mount cartridges that should fit though Excel used to make some really good sounding models, which can be found as new old stock.
Excel used to make some really good sounding models, which can be found as new old stock.
That was before they went into the spread sheet business, I'm guessing...
walpurgis
25-09-2015, 14:56
That was before they went into the spread sheet business, I'm guessing...
Typical! :lol:
Sounds like you could be a lucky lad. There are a few decent alternative 'P' mount cartridges that should fit though Excel used to make some really good sounding models, which can be found as new old stock.
Thanks Geoff, the seller has been very good so far, think it's just a generic stylus he's sending me so I'll see how it is then maybe think about buying a Jico SAS but they're a wee bit expensive.
Andy, wiicrackpot, has loaned me a pishy phono stage until I buy something decent, it's only an LFD MMC phono stage:eek:
walpurgis
25-09-2015, 18:48
Andy, wiicrackpot, has loaned me a pishy phono stage until I buy something decent, it's only an LFD MMC phono stage:eek:
That'll be nice.
That'll be nice.
Weighs a ton Geoff and looks beautiful.
I am actually about to pull the trigger on a Hagerman Bugle 2 MM phono stage, thoughts?
http://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/collections/phono-preamps/products/bugle2
Good news - make sure he doesn't just put the replacement stylus in an envelope! ;)
Marco.
Indeed:doh:
walpurgis
25-09-2015, 19:31
Weighs a ton Geoff and looks beautiful.
I am actually about to pull the trigger on a Hagerman Bugle 2 MM phono stage, thoughts?
http://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/collections/phono-preamps/products/bugle2
I know nothing about those.
After using an EAR 834L for a while, I bought a Graham Slee ERA Gold V a few years ago and was very pleased. It outperformed the 834L comfortably. I've since moved on to a Slee Reflex M which is lovely, but I still hanker for the ERA V Gold a bit. Recommend it. Brilliant for the money.
Hi guys the stylus turned up today and I fitted it but unfortunately the arm won't move, well it does move down on to the record and sticks there however i can get it to move by using the cuing buttons then when I move the arm down onto the record it just sits on the record and doesn't move from where it was placed.
I moved the arm slightly with the lid in the up position and you can hear a 'wirring' sound so moved the arm back to rest and put it on the record with the lid in the closed position and it remained in the same position on the record but the odd thing is when I connected up the phono leads to the phono stage then tried to play a record the stylus just skated right across the record along with the arm,
I tried this a few times and it did the same thing so stopped as I didn't want to ruin the record I was using.
I'm guessing the cart tracking weight is off and the arm is sticking then moving.
Any idea if this is an easy fix or should I just send the deck back for a refund?
Thanks
Tony
You can adjust the tracking weight on the SL6 with a little wheel next to the arm - if it is the same on the SL7 then you could try playing with that.
Otherwise might be more a serious issue.
Kinda sounds goosed Tony. Think thats a linear auto machine. There isnt a securing bolt missed?
Kinda sounds goosed Tony. Think thats a linear auto machine. There isnt a securing bolt missed?
No don't think so Grant, I've had a look about and it seems arm issues are a major problem with these decks, think a good service and lube will likely sort it but I'm not going down that road the seller sold this as working and I think it's bleeding obvious he didn't test it with a stylus on the arm.
BTW, it cost him £10.50 to send the stylus to me this morning, mental:doh:
You can adjust the tracking weight on the SL6 with a little wheel next to the arm - if it is the same on the SL7 then you could try playing with that.
Otherwise might be more a serious issue.
Thanks Martin, I'll try that.
Tried adjusting the tracking weight up and down and then back to the mid position on the wee wheel but the arm won't move across the record, I can cue the arm to anywhere on the record using the cuing buttons but when the arm goes onto the record then it doesn't move just remains in the position it is set down on and it won't start from the start of the record either, in order to get the arm to to cue I have to physically move it a wee bit to the left (must be a micro switch there) to start it 'whiring' then I use the cue buttons to move the arm across the record.
When I actually do manage to get some sounds the sound is completely distorted and it sounds shite:steam:
Think it will be going back.
Tony
Send it back immediately, Tony, and with a flea in that tosser's ear, too!! Bottom line is he sold it to you as "working", and that should mean rather more than 'lights up when switched on'!! :doh:
Immediate full refund is the only acceptable outcome now, and then put the unfortunate matter down to experience.
Marco.
Send it back immediately, Tony, and with a flea in that tosser's ear, too!! Bottom line is he sold it to you as "working", and that should mean rather more than 'lights up when switched on'!! :doh:
Immediate full refund is the only acceptable outcome now, and then put the unfortunate matter down to experience.
Marco.
Thanks Marco.
I've told him I want a refund Marco and he's giving it 'it was perfect when it left me', don't think so pal anyway Ebay will side with me.
I would have thought decks like that would have transit-locking screws, to lock all moving parts in place so they don't get rattled around during transit. Does your deck have these and were they fitted (they are usually marked in red or have an "*" alongside them. If not, then the item was not properly packed and it is irrelevant that "it was perfect when it left me".
In this instance eBay will almost certainly side with you.
I would have thought decks like that would have transit-locking screws, to lock all moving parts in place so they don't get rattled around during transit. Does your deck have these and were they fitted (they are usually marked in red or have an "*" alongside them. If not, then the item was not properly packed and it is irrelevant that "it was perfect when it left me".
In this instance eBay will almost certainly side with you.
Hi Barry, the seller has never mentioned transit locking screws so I'm presuming that he didn't either know the deck had them or didn't use them, I'll have a look on vinyl engine for the manual and see if there were any original.
Yes he's no chance Ebay will side with me, that's what they did with me when I sold a SUT to a Polish guy who clearly didn't have a clue but he just said the SUT was faulty (it wasn't) and I had to give him his money back including postage and pay the postage for him to return the SUT to me from Poland.
In fact Ebay actually paid that guy twice so he got a refund on all of his costs from me and Ebay refunded him too from my credit card but they messed up and had to give me my money back for the second refund but the Polish guy got to keep the money.
Tony
Thanks
Tony
Seems there's a tonearm lock on these decks:)
Found this post on vinyl engine
"The platter is held in place with a nut and will not normally separate from the spindle bearing as it is not held by friction, but a nut. The shipping screws are metric and can be found in an old fashioned hardware store selling loose screws, nylon washers etc. They are only used to prevent the platter from turning. If the seller is willing to do this for you that's nice but not necessary.
If there is a needle guard lower it, otherwise engaging the tonearm lock should work. I've never seen a tonearm protector, they are probably the first thing that's thrown away / lost."
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=39747
I think they had a drivebelt on the tonearms as well so that may have come adrift
I think they had a drivebelt on the tonearms as well so that may have come adrift
That's the thing Grant, the arm moves to the start of a record whether it's a 7" or 10" or 12" and it drops on to the record too and you can cue the arm to any part of the record however the stylus just stays in the groove and doesn't move so it's permanently jumping the groove like a real bad scratch on the record.
So to all intents and purposes it actually works until you drop the stylus on the record and then the arm doesn't move across the record.
I've had a look at the user manual and the service manual and there's nothing really about this situation, I'm guessing the resistance of the record is causing the arm belt to slip but that's as far as I can go with with it, don't really fancy stripping the thing down to check the belt and why should I anyway?
Tony
That's the thing Grant, the arm moves to the start of a record whether it's a 7" or 10" or 12" and it drops on to the record too and you can cue the arm to any part of the record however the stylus just stays in the groove and doesn't move so it's permanently jumping the groove like a real bad scratch on the record.
So to all intents and purposes it actually works until you drop the stylus on the record and then the arm doesn't move across the record.
I've had a look at the user manual and the service manual and there's nothing really about this situation, I'm guessing the resistance of the record is causing the arm belt to slip but that's as far as I can go with with it, don't really fancy stripping the thing down to check the belt and why should I anyway?
Tony
Yes I think the belt is for the tracking on the record. it may have slipped, but yes your right, its not really your job to go probing as he will accuse you of breaking it;
Ive just this minute found this discussion, as I was sure I had read it before Tony
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=29821
Yes I think the belt is for the tracking on the record. it may have slipped, but yes your right, its not really your job to go probing as he will accuse you of breaking it;
Ive just this minute found this discussion, as I was sure I had read it before Tony
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=29821
Bit of an update guys, the seller has agreed to take the TT back and refund me my total costs inc postage, he sent me a collection label for the TT to be picked up at a local shop so it's now back on it's journey down south.
Have to say, despite the obvious problems with the seller not checking the deck (IMO) and the damaged stylus thing, he has been very very good thus far, communication has been fantastic and there was no really messing about, seems a real genuine trader so hopefully the refund will go through quickly.
He must be out a good £25 on this sale which is really unfortunate for him, feel a bit bad about that but the TT is not fit for purpose so what can you do?
Tony
Well he should have checked it properly before shipping it, he's only got himself to blame.
In the meantime you still need a record deck.
Well he should have checked it properly before shipping it, he's only got himself to blame.
In the meantime you still need a record deck.
Indeed Martin but you get a feel for some people and he does seem a decent sort but maybe not the most diligent seller, probably hoping that someone will like something and either repair it themselves or pay for the repair.
Regarding TTs I think I'm going to buy this below with a Shure V111 fitted instead of the one in the advert.
The seller is an enthusiast who is a teacher in Germany and has a part time business selling and repairing Dual equipment (and other similar stuff), I've been in contact with him via a third party (German speaker on PFM) and I'm happy with what he is offering wrt the TT, warranty & etc plus his terms are that I pay a deposit of 50% then the balance once the TT has been delivered.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111763857147?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
walpurgis
29-09-2015, 09:36
That's an old unit. Is it properly compatible with UK mains?
A lot of money for an old dual i would have thought even though they are super decks.
walpurgis
29-09-2015, 10:00
A lot of money for an old dual i would have thought even though they are super decks.
Yes. It does seem very pricey. Add in the shipping cost and possible duty and you're around the £500 mark, for a turntable that's worth about £100 in average/good condition.
They are complex mechanically and if there are problems, you are on your own with one of these. Good turntable when working right though.
Personally, if I wanted a reliable older turntable, I'd be looking at a Thorens TD160 with the original TP16 arm. Nice and simple to maintain, parts easy to find and good sound, probably better than the Dual and the arm can be used with decent cartridges. And it has a full 12" patter, which the Dual does not.
Nice example here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thorens-TD-160-Turntable-/201437592417?hash=item2ee69dbb61
Yes. It does seem very pricey. Add in the shipping cost and possible duty and you're around the £500 mark, for a turntable that's worth about £100 in average/good condition.
They are complex mechanically and if there are problems, you are on your own with one of these. Good turntable when working right though.
Personally, if I wanted a reliable older turntable, I'd be looking at a Thorens TD160 with the original TP16 arm. Nice and simple to maintain, parts easy to find and good sound, probably better than the Dual and the arm can be used with decent cartridges. And it has a full 12" patter, which the Dual does not.
Nice example here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thorens-TD-160-Turntable-/201437592417?hash=item2ee69dbb61
Easy to upgrade too including the arm. A rega or sme are easy fits should you wish.
walpurgis
29-09-2015, 10:09
Easy to upgrade too including the arm. A rega or sme are easy fits should you wish.
There's nothing wrong with the Thorens arm though. It has good bearings, is pretty rigid and the cast headshell is nice and solid. It works well with a decent MC cartridge or modern MM.
There's nothing wrong with the Thorens arm though. It has good bearings, is pretty rigid and the cast headshell is nice and solid. It works well with a decent MC cartridge or modern MM.
Agree its a good arm although can be bettered imo. Aesthetically especially its not the most attractive
The Dual 1219 & 1229 do have full sized platters that weigh about 3kg, the lower models have smaller platters. 1019 also has a smaller platter but it's actually a bit heavier than the full sized one on 1219/1229. The top models are all very good sounding decks and the arms are more capable performers than you'd expect from the looks and skimpy headshell / cartridge sled arrangement. I think a lot of research went into those tables. I agree the prices seem steep though, but then again if the person knows what they're doing, properly cared for they'll probably give trouble free service for years and years. The motor in particular is excellent, very silent and lots of torque.
I don't think they reach Thorens TD-160 levels of sound quality, especially for low-level detail and imaging, but for pop/rock I think I actually prefer the Duals because they have better rhytmic drive. I've found the spring mounting plums up the bass a bit, giving a slightly fuller but more rounded sound while taking the springs out and mounting on a heavy enough plinth cleans up the bass and makes it tighter.
Hi guys, I agree that the deck I'm thinking of buying is expensive but as usual context is everything.
I've been quoted €650 for the deck, a Shure V111 cart inc new sytlus, plinth, postage to the UK (Glasgow) and 12 months warranty.
For perspective the plinth on it's own is €290 (€350 on the website), cart and stylus €110 and postage @ €32 which leaves the cost of a completely refurbished deck incl the motor @ €218 or about £160 which is far from excessive IMO.
Here's the guy's website
http://www.gs-audio.com/
Yes. It does seem very pricey. Add in the shipping cost and possible duty and you're around the £500 mark, for a turntable that's worth about £100 in average/good condition.
They are complex mechanically and if there are problems, you are on your own with one of these. Good turntable when working right though.
Personally, if I wanted a reliable older turntable, I'd be looking at a Thorens TD160 with the original TP16 arm. Nice and simple to maintain, parts easy to find and good sound, probably better than the Dual and the arm can be used with decent cartridges. And it has a full 12" patter, which the Dual does not.
Nice example here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thorens-TD-160-Turntable-/201437592417?hash=item2ee69dbb61
Thanks Geoff, pretty sure the 1219 & 1229 both have 12" platters, here's the specs for the 1219
DUAL 1219 Turntable
Specifications: 3 Speeds (33.33/45/78 RPM)
Cue Control
Pitch Control
Anti-Skating Control
Multiple Play
Spec Sheet Data: Motor: Synchronous continuous-pole
with radial-elastic suspension.
Platter: Non-magnetic, dynamically
balanced weight: 3.1Kg, (6.8 lbs)
Pitch Control: 6% on all speeds
Wow & Flutter: +/- 0.06% DIN 45
Rumble:
Unweighted: 45dB
Weighted: 60dB
Tonearm: Extra long, torsionally rigid
metal arm, 4 point gimbal suspension,
skeletal head design
Cartridge Mount: Removable,
accepts all cartridges weighing from 1
to 12 grams using standard 1/2" mount
Weight: 15 lbs (6.8Kg)
Years Manufactured: 1970-72'
Price (New): $185.00(USD)
Definitely one of the most popular Dual
models every sold!
http://dual-reference.com/tables/1219.htm
Yes, completely refurbished deck with 12 months warranty is essentially like buying new, so comparing to 2nd hand examples on the used market is quite pointless. I took a look at the website and noticed there was a 1229 in an original plinth (most of which were really flimsy) for 220€, so like you said the price for refurbished deck is far from excessive - if the quality of service is good beyond just looks I'd say it's a bargain really.
Thanks Geoff, pretty sure the 1219 & 1229 both have 12" platters, here's the specs for the 1219
Yes they have, I have one next to me right now :)
They are very complex machines and overtime they do develop 'issues', but a completely (& well) serviced one should be good for years and years to come. One of the Duals I had had been stored in a barn for all I know, opening it up I actually found some hay inside the plinth :D Apart from a motor that was squealing like a pig before opening it up and giving it a good clean & relube, even that one worked fully, though some of the automatic functions would have the occasional hiccup. Btw. this was from eBay from a seller who claimed "technically in perfect working order" ... since I didn't pay much for it I settled for a partial refund on that one.
If anyone is getting one used with unknown service history I'd actually recommend doing the full works right away, because otherwise you have a ticking time bomb in your hand, chances being it will keep developing one 'issue' after another, so instead of doing a full maintenance once, you're looking at doing a little every few months... none of the stuff is actually very hard to do, just a bit tedious but very doable with good instructions and rudimentary skills.
walpurgis
29-09-2015, 18:53
Yes. I know. For some reason I'd thought the listing was for a 1019. I've owned a 1219, so I should know the difference.
I don't think they reach Thorens TD-160 levels of sound quality, especially for low-level detail and imaging, but for pop/rock I think I actually prefer the Duals because they have better rhytmic drive. I've found the spring mounting plums up the bass a bit, giving a slightly fuller but more rounded sound while taking the springs out and mounting on a heavy enough plinth cleans up the bass and makes it tighter.
I'll let you into a secret - use better exit cabling, add a thin cork mat and I think you'll find a top model idler Dual would better any TD160 Thorens in terms of musical involvement. Only a tiny amount of drive 'whine' buried in the surface noise would tell it was an idler model. I can confirm though that the 701 direct drive comfortably out-performed any 160/147 era Thorens, although the perceived sound-field isn't as expansive as a 'real' turntable. It's all there though, just 'smaller' :)
Yes they have, I have one next to me right now :)
They are very complex machines and overtime they do develop 'issues', but a completely (& well) serviced one should be good for years and years to come. One of the Duals I had had been stored in a barn for all I know, opening it up I actually found some hay inside the plinth :D Apart from a motor that was squealing like a pig before opening it up and giving it a good clean & relube, even that one worked fully, though some of the automatic functions would have the occasional hiccup. Btw. this was from eBay from a seller who claimed "technically in perfect working order" ... since I didn't pay much for it I settled for a partial refund on that one.
If anyone is getting one used with unknown service history I'd actually recommend doing the full works right away, because otherwise you have a ticking time bomb in your hand, chances being it will keep developing one 'issue' after another, so instead of doing a full maintenance once, you're looking at doing a little every few months... none of the stuff is actually very hard to do, just a bit tedious but very doable with good instructions and rudimentary skills.
Thanks Helma, I've more or less made my mind now up after asking a very good Hi-Fi mate for his advice and a well know Dual guy on here and both, like yourself, have said its a good table at a good price but I'm not just buying for sound cause I don't have great speakers now or indeed an amp, most of my stuff is pretty low value so there's very little point in spending a load of money on a top class deck, I'm also buying the deck cause I like the look of it in the new plinth and I think that the deck will satisfy both the aesthetics and the sound and that's all I'm really looking for now but I think, providing the deck works fine, then I intend to keep it long term.
Tony
Yes. It does seem very pricey. Add in the shipping cost and possible duty and you're around the £500 mark, for a turntable that's worth about £100 in average/good condition.
As it is coming from Germany which is in the EU, there should be no import duty. :thumbsup:
I'll let you into a secret - use better exit cabling, add a thin cork mat and I think you'll find a top model idler Dual would better any TD160 Thorens in terms of musical involvement. Only a tiny amount of drive 'whine' buried in the surface noise would tell it was an idler model. I can confirm though that the 701 direct drive comfortably out-performed any 160/147 era Thorens, although the perceived sound-field isn't as expansive as a 'real' turntable. It's all there though, just 'smaller' :)
I do have a modified Dual 1019 with a Denon DA-305 tonearm sitting next to my Thorens TD-160 so I should know :) The Denon arm is mounted on a separate arm board, I still have the turntable completely stock so I can use the original arm & automatics as well. From my listening seat I can't really tell the two apart as far as noise floor goes, but if I crank things up enough or put my ear right next to the speaker the Dual drivesystem does make some noise like you said. The Thorens is also slightly modified, basically a beefier reinforced plinth and the usual damping stuff (for which I used cork since I didn't want to affect the mass too much) & I also went through the trouble to test different phase shift cap values to find the optimal for the motor on mine.
Which is better I think depends on what you mean by 'musical involvement' as I believe that's personal to each of us. I'd say on material like acoustic jazz etc. the Thorens does sound a bit better (and thus involving) simply because it does fine detail better & the suspension doing it's magic creates just slightly more dimensional sound image, but with music with a lot of pounding going on the Dual is by far more involving, even with the stock arm. It just has more solidity and manages to bring the drive in the music into the room, while the Thorens in comparison seems to shy away - it just doesn't seem to have the focus and drive especially in the low frequencies to handle something like 80s Donna Summer or Yello, or AC/DC as convincingly. The difference is quite big, but I never realized there was a problem until I listened the Dual & the Thorens side by side and heard the drive of the music lessen when switching to the Thorens. Both were using same cartridge (Ortofon MC10 Supreme) though of course the arm was different.
Still at the end of the day I'd probably be happy with both, but if I had to pick one right now I'd probably go with the Dual...
Thanks again guys.
I've decided to buy the 1219 and have just this minute e-mailed the seller to start the purchase process so hopefully I've receive a reply tomorrow but I may have to call him too.
Tony.
walpurgis
29-09-2015, 21:13
Good luck with it Tony. Hope you like it! :)
Good luck with it Tony. Hope you like it! :)
Thanks Geoff, so do I:eek:
Best of luck, keep us posted :)
Best of luck, keep us posted :)
Hi Helma, well I've been in touch with the seller and have paid the deposit, the turntable comes with a Shure V111 & new VN35E Jico stylus and it might be posted from Germany by Friday but the seller is going on holiday then so I've told him there's no rush and that I am happy to wait:cool:
Tony
Hi Helma, well I've been in touch with the seller and have paid the deposit, the turntable comes with a Shure V111 & new VN35E Jico stylus and it might be posted from Germany by Friday but the seller is going on holiday then so I've told him there's no rush and that I am happy to wait:cool:
Tony
Hoping it survives the couriers Tony. A pretty solid deck and I always wanted one but never managed the feat. :)
Hoping it survives the couriers Tony. A pretty solid deck and I always wanted one but never managed the feat. :)
Just had an email confirming receipt of deposit Grant and that the TT will be posted tomorrow with tracking details to follow:eek:
Funnily enough I read that the seller knows how to post TTs Grant so I'm not too concerned.
Can't wait but I'm in the grubber now:doh:
BTW, your welcome to come over and have listen next time your down this way mate.
Might take you up on that Tony. I would like to see it.:)
walpurgis
29-09-2015, 23:01
Let us know how you find it.
Might take you up on that Tony. I would like to see it.:)
Anytime Grant:cool:
Let us know how you find it.
I certainly will Geoff, thanks.
Thanks Helma, I've more or less made my mind now up after asking a very good Hi-Fi mate for his advice and a well know Dual guy on here and both, like yourself, have said its a good table at a good price but I'm not just buying for sound cause I don't have great speakers now or indeed an amp, most of my stuff is pretty low value so there's very little point in spending a load of money on a top class deck, I'm also buying the deck cause I like the look of it in the new plinth and I think that the deck will satisfy both the aesthetics and the sound and that's all I'm really looking for now but I think, providing the deck works fine, then I intend to keep it long term.
Quite right, Tony. I respect your selection criteria and applaud your choice of turntable. I like your lateral thinking! I also think that the Dual is a super looking T/T, and I suspect a good sounding one, too.
Hope it works out well for you, and that you can get a settled system ASAP, and get back to just enjoying music :)
Marco.
Quite right, Tony. I respect your selection criteria and applaud your choice of turntable. I like your lateral thinking! I also think that the Dual is a super looking T/T, and I suspect a good sounding one, too.
Hope it works out well for you, and that you can get a settled system ASAP, and get back to just enjoying music :)
Marco.
Thanks Marco, I'm really looking forward to this deck but I have to say the advice I've had from a number of people on here and on PFM , regarding this purchase, has been really really excellent so big thanks to all of you:cool:
Tony
That's an old unit. Is it properly compatible with UK mains?
I think German and UK mains is 230 volts Geoff so hopefully there shouldn't be a problem, anyone know?
Looks as though it should be okay, German mains is 220v and Uk mains is 240v but they meet in the middle at 230v
http://www.schneider-electric.co.uk/sites/uk/en/support/faqs/faq_main.page?page=content&country=UK&lang=en&id=FA144717&locale=en_US&redirect=true
http://www.twothirtyvolts.org.uk/pdfs/site-info/Explanation_230Volts.pdf
file:///Users/tonycosgrove/Downloads/ve_dual_1219.pdf
Germany can be anywhere between 220 and 240 I believe. we are still 240 irrellevent to what they tell you, and some folk get 250v. I use a regenerator that puts out a steady 230v which is a nice inbetween
Germany can be anywhere between 220 and 240 I believe. we are still 240 irrellevent to what they tell you, and some folk get 250v. I use a regenerator that puts out a steady 230v which is a nice inbetween
Thanks Grant, my understanding is that the TT will either run a bit fast or a bit slow depending on voltages but that it will 'likely' be fine.
Thanks Grant, my understanding is that the TT will either run a bit fast or a bit slow depending on voltages but that it will 'likely' be fine.
It depends on the motor used.
It depends on the motor used.
Specs from vinyle engine Barry
Specifications
Power supply: AC, 50 or 60Hz, changeable by changing motor pulley
Power supply voltage: 110/117V or 220V switchable
Drive: Synchronous continuous-pole motor with radial-elastic suspension
Platter: non-magnetic, dynamically balanced, 3.1kg
Speeds: 33, 45 and 78rpm
Pitch control variation: 6%
Rumble: -60db (weighted)
Tonearm: extra long, torsionally rigid metal arm, 4-point gimbal suspension, skeletal head design
Cartridge holder: removable, accepts all 1/2" cartridges from 1 to 12g
Weight: 6.8kg
Dimensions: 376 x 334mm
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/1219.shtml
The motor on that one is synchronous so speed shouldn't vary (and it is adjustable anyway) and it'll work fine on 240V - the only downside is it might run a little hotter and vibrate a bit more than with 220V that was the intended voltage. With my modded 1019 I added a resistor in series with the motor to bring the voltage down to about 220V and it was an improvement from the 230V-240V we get here - however the 1019 motor is a bit different though they look mostly identical, since it's a straight induction motor and speed will actually vary slightly depending on the voltage. I'm not sure if the motor mounts are identical, so the following might not apply to 1219/1229, but with the 1019 I got the slightest bit of motor vibration coming through as rumble into the chassis and finding it's way into the silent parts, but dropping the voltage to 220V took care of that. However even before it wasn't intrusive, just something I could faintly hear if really cranking things up or putting my ear to the speaker. The resistor fix is a really simple thing to do, with the obvious caveat that for safety reasons it should be done by someone who knows their stuff.
Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it, but just spin records :) It's just one of those things you could possibly do to squeeze the maximum out of the thing, but it should be just fine as it is and besides I think the 1219/1229 is specified for less rumble to begin with than the 1019.
You can try my variac if you want Tony. it will drop your voltage to whatever you want;)
The motor on that one is synchronous so speed shouldn't vary (and it is adjustable anyway) and it'll work fine on 240V - the only downside is it might run a little hotter and vibrate a bit more than with 220V that was the intended voltage. With my modded 1019 I added a resistor in series with the motor to bring the voltage down to about 220V and it was an improvement from the 230V-240V we get here - however the 1019 motor is a bit different though they look mostly identical, since it's a straight induction motor and speed will actually vary slightly depending on the voltage. I'm not sure if the motor mounts are identical, so the following might not apply to 1219/1229, but with the 1019 I got the slightest bit of motor vibration coming through as rumble into the chassis and finding it's way into the silent parts, but dropping the voltage to 220V took care of that. However even before it wasn't intrusive, just something I could faintly hear if really cranking things up or putting my ear to the speaker. The resistor fix is a really simple thing to do, with the obvious caveat that for safety reasons it should be done by someone who knows their stuff.
Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it, but just spin records :) It's just one of those things you could possibly do to squeeze the maximum out of the thing, but it should be just fine as it is and besides I think the 1219/1229 is specified for less rumble to begin with than the 1019.
Thanks Helma, panic over:eyebrows:
You can try my variac if you want Tony. it will drop your voltage to whatever you want;)
A variac you say Grant?:eek: Gotta be worth a try mate, thanks.
A variac you say Grant?:eek: Gotta be worth a try mate, thanks.
If you have any probs then you can try it mate. Its all built and works well can handle a small power amp so no probs with a tt.
If you have any probs then you can try it mate. Its all built and works well can handle a small power amp so no probs with a tt.
BTW, I bought a Schiit Mani Grant, arrived today 75 sovs posted, looks the buiso.
How do I set the dip switches for the V111, do you know?
Did you not get the booklet Tony. ??
Did you not get the booklet Tony. ??
Aye not looked at it yet, lazy bstard mate:lol:
I've Peter's (Petrat) MF V90 to come too, well Tom's (montesqui) V90, looking forward to hearing both of those stages, although I've read the Schiit is excellent.
Found it to be very good. it has different levels of output... if your mm is lowish then you can up the output a bit. quite versatile and solid little thing, and sounds marvellous with all my carts. Think you will like it
Found it to be very good. it has different levels of output... if your mm is lowish then you can up the output a bit. quite versatile and solid little thing, and sounds marvellous with all my carts. Think you will like it
I'll let you know how I get on with the two stages Grant, Andy (wiicrackpot) loaned me and LFD MM stage to use with the SL-7 and it's still here, he's coming over with some carts to try on the 1219 when it arrives so if you can make it we can have a wee sesh, I know it's a bit out for you but your welcome Grant:cool:
Hi guys, just a quick one, the TT arrived today and the packaging was completely bomb-proof:eek:
TT looks stunning in the plinth and I would say that deck itself is near mint or even new old stock and it is as quiet as a mouse when the tonearm is moving towards the record.
I had to reassemble the deck by fitting the platter and the stylus but honestly that was a complete doddle, had a bit of a problem when I connected the TT to the phono stage and to the amp, was getting loads of distortion but I think the phono stage was overloading the AUX/PHONO input in the Pulse integrated so I moved the inputs to the VCR inputs and that sorted the distortion.
I'm currently using a LDF MM phono stage and the sound is just fantastic, fast, loads of pace, rhythmic, great bass, very musical unbelievable really considering my speakers are really pretty basic.
I have to say that this deck sounds easily as good as my old SL-1200 with a Denon 103 cart and Micro Seiki tonearm but I don't know how much of that is down to the phono stage so I'm going to try the Schiit Mani Phono Stage shortly and will update this post later on.
Really really pleased with the deck, the plinth and the cart, so far it's exactly what I wanted from a TT, looks fantastic and is a bit of a statement in the lounge (wife likes it too), sounds brilliant and I can play my records, I just need to buy a nice 'sideboard' sort of thing for that 'seventies look' and of course some sort of cover cause it definitely needs one I think.
Tony
That's good news Tony. Well done! Lets see some photos. :)
That's good news Tony. Well done! Lets see some photos. :)
Thanks Barry, not the best I'll get some more done in the morning:eyebrows:
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2169_zpsjofpbo2v.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2169_zpsjofpbo2v.jpg.html)
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2170_zpsz9zrztru.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2170_zpsz9zrztru.jpg.html)
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2171_zpsqxqzxu2y.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2171_zpsqxqzxu2y.jpg.html)
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2172_zpswwzl2cly.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2172_zpswwzl2cly.jpg.html)
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2173_zpsao6v7hq9.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2173_zpsao6v7hq9.jpg.html)
BTW, just a quick few words about the seller, Gunter, he couldn't have been more helpful and despite his pretty basic of English, which is much better than my almost non-existent German, his communication is fantastic.
He answers e-mails within hours or in some cases within minutes and he is currently on holiday too, I couldn't have asked for a better guy to buy one of these TTs from being completely honest and I can recommend him absolutely.
Thanks
Tony
Nice one Tony.. as you say, it looks minty..
wiicrackpot
05-10-2015, 19:28
Good to hear it's worked out for you Tony despite me bombing you with links with cheaper examples, :)
sometimes it pays to fork out a bit more to save the hassle when things go tits up, that SL7 for example. :doh:
I rather like the grainy Sepia feel of your pics, it goes really well with the TT's vintage, well done on that front too.
P.S. don't worry if the trials tells you the other stages you have are better than the LFD,
it's all about synergy,i'd rather you tell it as it is.
Good to hear it's worked out for you Tony despite me bombing you with links with cheaper examples, :)
sometimes it pays to fork out a bit more to save the hassle when things go tits up, that SL7 for example. :doh:
I rather like the grainy Sepia feel of your pics, it goes really well with the TT's vintage, well done on that front too.
P.S. don't worry if the trials tells you the other stages you have are better than the LFD,
it's all about synergy,i'd rather you tell it as it is.
Thanks Andy, naw the LFD is amazing mate, the pace and the rhythm and the bass are all missing from the Schitt but the Schiit is still very good aside from the white led which is mental:donk:
Also I've just discovered that the Pulse amp has a bleeding phono stage!
No wonder I was getting huge distortion earlier although there is absolutely no mention of a phono stage in the manual or on their website and there isn't an earth tag either, well weird.
The built in phono stage is okay but I have to crank the volume right up to double what I would usually listen to a CD or radio at so would end up blowing a speaker i think if I don't use an external phono stage.
Tony
Sur-weet.
Thanks Neil
:cool:
Congrats on the new table! Well done and glad to hear the seller is up to his game.
Those old Duals are very good turntables like I think you've discovered. They really did put a lot of effort in the engineering. That arm doesn't look like much but the gimbaled bearings are very good and somehow the headshell arrangement works out. Looking at those photos kinda make me want to sort out my 1229 though I was planning on selling it since I already have 1019 in good nick and custom plinth.
wiicrackpot
05-10-2015, 20:47
Also I've just discovered that the Pulse amp has a bleeding phono stage!
No wonder I was getting huge distortion earlier although there is absolutely no mention of a phono stage in the manual or on their website and there isn't an earth tag either, well weird.
The built in phono stage is okay but I have to crank the volume right up to double what I would usually listen to a CD or radio at so would end up blowing a speaker i think if I don't use an external phono stage.
Tony
Eh...i didnae know that, is the phonostage in the amp selectable for MM/MC?,
if it nearly blew your speakers with your V15mk3, then it's a MC or set for MC.
Tony, if you are using a MM and still need to crank it up double to get any volume, i very much doubt the amp has a Phonostage.
Eh...i didnae know that, is the phonostage in the amp selectable for MM/MC?,
if it nearly blew your speakers with your V15mk3, then it's a MC or set for MC.
Thinking about it, if the manual doesn't mention a phonostage and the back of the amp doesn't look like it's built with a phonostage,
then the sensitivity of the AUX input must be set wrong, you can set the sensitivity individually with the amp i think,
footer about with it, you'll get there, just remember to lower the volume before you play the tt with anything you've adjusted and work up, have fun.
I put the Schiit Mani back in Andy, connected it to the AUX with the switch set to AUX rather than phono.
I suspect that the AUX/Phono sensitivity is pretty high, had a look at the manual and there's no mention a phono stage or individual input sensitivities and I don't think that you can set each input individually either.
Couldn't live with the amp with the TT volume double the other inputs would end up damaging something as there's no way I would remember what I volume I had set for the TT vs the CD for example.
Bloody external phono stage cost me more than the Pulse amp mate:doh:
Congrats on the new table! Well done and glad to hear the seller is up to his game.
Those old Duals are very good turntables like I think you've discovered. They really did put a lot of effort in the engineering. That arm doesn't look like much but the gimbaled bearings are very good and somehow the headshell arrangement works out. Looking at those photos kinda make me want to sort out my 1229 though I was planning on selling it since I already have 1019 in good nick and custom plinth.
Thanks Kai, the seller is an absolute gentleman, I've just sent him the balance.
Love the TT and the sound from the cart is really nice, piano is excellent.
Tony
HackneyRF
05-10-2015, 21:04
Really liking the look of your Dual Tony. Very stylish indeed. Hope you get lots of enjoyment out of it.
Cheers
Loz
Really liking the look of your Dual Tony. Very stylish indeed. Hope you get lots of enjoyment out of it.
Cheers
Loz
Thanks Loz:cool:
BTW, the LFD phono stage is amazing, should be though it's about 15 x the price of the Schiit:eek:
Eh...i didnae know that, is the phonostage in the amp selectable for MM/MC?,
if it nearly blew your speakers with your V15mk3, then it's a MC or set for MC.
Tony, if you are using a MM and still need to crank it up double to get any volume, i very much doubt the amp has a Phonostage.
if you plugged a mm out into a mm in, then you would get what you got Tony. you would be multiplying line voltage with another mm stage. Sorry to here you didnt like the mani; ive found it fine
wiicrackpot
05-10-2015, 21:12
if you plugged a mm out into a mm in, then you would get what you got Tony. you would be multiplying line voltage with another mm stage. Sorry to here you didnt like the mani; ive found it fine
Tony, that might be the answer,didn't think of that. thanks Grant, glad you have the greater knowledge.
if you plugged a mm out into a mm in, then you would get what you got Tony. you would be multiplying line voltage with another mm stage. Sorry to here you didnt like the mani; ive found it fine
No I like the Mani Grant, I'm comparing it to a top quality MM phono stage which is unfair really.
I'm waiting until the MF phono stage turns up then I'll keep which ever one I prefer but the Mani sounds more than decent to my ears.
Tony
Gunter, the seller of the TT, sent me a link for covers for the TT.
These look the business.
http://sudu-shop.de/de/sudu-Acrylhauben/HiFi-Hauben-und-Zubehoer
Gunter, the seller of the TT, sent me a link for covers for the TT.
These look the business.
http://sudu-shop.de/de/sudu-Acrylhauben/HiFi-Hauben-und-Zubehoer
think Paul at RFC was a connection to lids with a company Tony. might be worth dropping him a PM
wiicrackpot
05-10-2015, 21:25
No I like the Mani Grant, I'm comparing it to a top quality MM phono stage which is unfair really.
I'm waiting until the MF phono stage turns up then I'll keep which ever one I prefer but the Mani sounds more than decent to my ears.
Tony
Tony, take your time and do what you're doing just now, namely picking up a few you can try and move on with virtually no loss,
my offer still stands, if you are good with the soldering iron, i've a Little Bear here that i bought couple of years ago,
read somewhere it was rather good for pin money but never got round to building it, and i am not likely to due to lack of ability.:doh:
Just listening to this deck and cart this morning cranked up and guitars are astonishing, seems to be an excellent cartridge for fast paced music, I'm listening to The Smiths Hatful Of Hollow (haven't heard this for years) right now and Johnny Marr's guitar playing sounds amazing as does the drums and Morrissey's vocals.
I'm really delighted with this set up.
Tony
Right having a day off :eek: so having a play about with the phono stages.
The LFD is fast paced, sounds as though it's on steroids, hs loads of bass, loads of rythym and has amazing detail, fabulous.
The LFD isn't mine it's just on loan and going to be returned later on today but if I were in the market for a top quality MM phono stage then this one would certainly be amongst my top three (no idea what would compare to this PS BTW) the soundstage is fantastic and is just all round brilliant. Probably it's one of the best things that I've ever had the pleasure of listening to in my system, easily on a comparsion quality and soundwise with my old Harbeth P3ESRs.
The Schiit Mani phono stage is very good too but a bit slower sounding but the music is all there, guitars sound great with it but nothing too shouty and a very good overall soundstage, I quite like it but I'm waiting on delivery of a MF V90 phono stage which should hopefully arrive today so that will give me a better idea of which one I prefer then I'll move the other one on.
My amp, a Pulse SRA 160USB is really excellent value for money and isn't shown up by either of the two phono stages or the cartridge, it just get's on with it, for the £60 it cost me it has to be the hi-fi bargain of the year for me, it's certainly not as nice sounding as my Quad 34 pre and 306 power amp but it's not far away like all things in Hi-Fi there isn't massive changes with equipement but some stuff is odviously better or certainly different and that's the case with this amp IMO.
The TT and cart are wonderful though, couldn't be more happy with them.
Tony
walpurgis
06-10-2015, 10:32
The MF V90-LPS has had some decent reviews. Just remember to plug it into a line level input. :)
If you get the chance, have a listen to Graham Slee phono stages, they are always outstanding at the price point for each model.
Some more photos guys, the current set up is a bit pish looking but the lounge is going to be ripped apart next week and then we'll be buying something nice to put the deck on, was thinking along the lines of an old seventies type sideboard thing but a modern one so that we can make the deck a feature and then stick the amps etc inside the sideboard to hide them and the cables etc.
Anyway enjoy:cool:
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2182_zpspkrtslou.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2182_zpspkrtslou.jpg.html)
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2181_zpsd69og34h.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2181_zpsd69og34h.jpg.html)
http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2177_zpsrmmzbiq5.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2177_zpsrmmzbiq5.jpg.html)
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The MF V90-LPS has had some decent reviews. Just remember to plug it into a line level input. :)
If you get the chance, have a listen to Graham Slee phono stages, they are always outstanding at the price point for each model.
There is a new model out soon - The Accession. Apparently sounds rather good.
It sits above the Reflex M in the product range.
The MF V90-LPS has had some decent reviews. Just remember to plug it into a line level input. :)
If you get the chance, have a listen to Graham Slee phono stages, they are always outstanding at the price point for each model.
Hi Geoff the MF has just arrived:eek:
Weird that amp thing of mine though, there's absolutely no mention of a phono stage in the manual or on the website but that's obviously what I plugged the LFD into last night, it's lucky than I didn't do some damage.
BTW, I bought a 1.5mm cork mat from Ebay this morning based on Dave's recommendation, only £7 posted so a bit of a no brainer but this vinyl thing does end up costing a fortune despite telling your self that it won't:doh:
walpurgis
06-10-2015, 11:06
There is a new model out soon - The Accession. Apparently sounds rather good.
It sits above the Reflex M in the product range.
Damn! I bet that's going to be the best part of a grand. I moved up to the Reflex M after a few happy years with the ERA Gold V. If the Accession is even better, it will be amazing.
The MF V-90 on first listening sounds very good, a bit jangely with less bass but it's okay.
Audio Al
06-10-2015, 11:16
Tony
I am listening too my BrAun P2 TT at the moment , well the last 2 weeks its very good with the BrAun R1 integrated amp and LS130 speakers :eek:
walpurgis
06-10-2015, 11:16
[QUOTE=twotone;690678]Weird that amp thing of mine though, there's absolutely no mention of a phono stage in the manual or on the website but that's obviously what I plugged the LFD into last night, it's lucky than I didn't do some damage.[QUOTE]
I'd never heard of Pulse amps before. I'd suggest looking for a clean used Denon PMA-350 SE for about £80 and enjoy some really good sound quality. It'll sound better than the Quad 34/306 combo. If you're lucky, you might find one of the rare ones with the optional and very decent phono stage in it. The Quad 306 is a nice little power amp, but I don't like the 34 pre-amp much. I've tried a couple and found them a bit bland and unrevealing.
I think you are going to like the MF unit.
As for vinyl replay being expensive, well it can be obviously, but there are ways of obtaining superb sound without going broke, if you use your imagination and know your gear. Good second hand equipment is always a useful option, even for cartridges.
walpurgis
06-10-2015, 11:18
The MF V-90 on first listening sounds very good, a bit jangely with less bass but it's okay.
If it's new, it may improve with use. I seem to recall a review saying just that about the MF.
[QUOTE=twotone;690678]Weird that amp thing of mine though, there's absolutely no mention of a phono stage in the manual or on the website but that's obviously what I plugged the LFD into last night, it's lucky than I didn't do some damage.[QUOTE]
I'd never heard of Pulse amps before. I'd suggest looking for a clean used Denon PMA-350 SE for about £80 and enjoy some really good sound quality. It'll sound better than the Quad 34/306 combo. If you're lucky, you might find one of the rare ones with the optional and very decent phono stage in it. The Quad 306 is a nice little power amp, but I don't like the 34 pre-amp much. I've tried a couple and found them a bit bland and unrevealing.
I think you are going to like the MF unit.
As for vinyl replay being expensive, well it can be obviously, but there are ways of obtaining superb sound without going broke, if you use your imagination and know your gear. Good second hand equipment is always a useful option, even for cartridges.
Geoff, Alan Steele of Harbeth highly recommends the Pulse amp, well maybe not as highly as the Pioneer but...
http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/archive/index.php/t-2277.html
"What sort of user adjustable features are you looking for? If you're referring to tone controls, I'm not aware of any UK manufactured integrated amplifier that fits the bill. For that, you'll have to look to Japanese manufactured products.... ... and very well made much of it is too. My son's girlfriend worked at Pioneer UK, and I am long-time friends with Pioneer Europe's Brand Ambassador, and I have great respect for the engineering in their products.
If it were me, I would put features and facilities first, not UK manufacturing. My reasoning would be that if the rump of UK amp makers are so disconnected from reality that they don't even offer an balance control let alone tone controls, do they honestly deserve the sale? Real speakers in real rooms playing real recordings can most of the time benefit from a small adjustment in balance or tone, especially in UK living rooms where the chimney, window and door disturbs the ideal symmetry of speakers.
If I were in your shoes, I assure you that what I'd do is buy a 70W+70W Pioneer amp, as detailed here (http://cpc.farnell.com/pioneer/a-30-k/amplifier-stereo-70x70w-black/dp/AV22608) in black and here (http://cpc.farnell.com/pioneer/a-30-s/amplifier-stereo-70x70w-silver/dp/AV22609) in silver.. User manual here (http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1639030.pdf). There are several alternative power/colour options as you'll see here (http://cpc.farnell.com/hi-fi-amplifiers-receivers&getResults=true).
I'm sure you can order directly from CPC with a credit card, but if you can't I'm sure hifi_dave (for example) could get the amp for you for a reasonable handling charge.
After that, I'd just get on with listening to music, applying as needed, a little tone or balance to suit. In fact, I think I'll order one of these so we can run it through the fancy remote control A-B box, due in any day now.
P.S. The Pioneer is a luxury amp by my standards. Don't want to spend as much? Then I'd go for this, at half the price here (http://cpc.farnell.com/pulse/sra-160usb/hifi-amplifier-stereo-mic-usb/dp/AV19938). I have two of the slightly earlier versions with a few less facilities. How does it sound? You probably wouldn't believe me if I told you that it was completely indistinguishable from a very highly respected North American unit under carefully controlled, level matched to about 0.15dB instantaneous A-B comparison. There really is no magic in amplifier design whatever.
http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/78962-pulse-sra-160usb-hifi-amplifier-stereo-mic-usb.html
If it's new, it may improve with use. I seem to recall a review saying just that about the MF.
Think both the Schiit and the MF are new Geoff as is the Jico VN35E stylus in the Shure VIII cartridge.
The MF is fantastic with jazz BTW, I've the KOB mono repress on now and it's stunning, loads of shimmer & depth to the music, hard to believe it's a mono pressing, best I've heard it.
Tony
I am listening too my BrAun P2 TT at the moment , well the last 2 weeks its very good with the BrAun R1 integrated amp and LS130 speakers :eek:
Aye they look great Allen, you'll need to grow another couple of pairs of ears for all of those TTs that you have:eek:
Sorry for being very late responding to this thread:rolleyes:. I recently had a similar experience. Having picked up a vintage LP12/Grace G707 for not a lot I restored it but rapidly found that Linn upgrades are very expensive and IMHO it sounded a bit un-dynamic and coloured so decided to "downsize" as I didn't want to get sucked into the Linn "upgraditis" and financial ruin spiral.
So what to get? I did not want a spring suspended deck (the LP12 suspension is enough to try the patience of a saint!) so considered a 2nd hand SL1210 but was concerned about getting a good one etc so eventually bought a Rega RP3 and once I overcame a faulty arm wiring problem (great service from Audio T in Brighton) I am now very pleased with the sound I am getting using a Denon DL-110 through my Schiit Mani phono stage which BTW is absolutely stellar for the money. The sound is dynamic and engaging without the colouration/bloom my LP12 had. As vinyl is now my third source I think this vinyl rig is as far as i want to go.
Anyway good luck with your decision!:)
Sorry for being very late responding to this thread:rolleyes:. I recently had a similar experience. Having picked up a vintage LP12/Grace G707 for not a lot I restored it but rapidly found that Linn upgrades are very expensive and IMHO it sounded a bit un-dynamic and coloured so decided to "downsize" as I didn't want to get sucked into the Linn "upgraditis" and financial ruin spiral.
So what to get? I did not want a spring suspended deck (the LP12 suspension is enough to try the patience of a saint!) so considered a 2nd hand SL1210 but was concerned about getting a good one etc so eventually bought a Rega RP3 and once I overcame a faulty arm wiring problem (great service from Audio T in Brighton) I am now very pleased with the sound I am getting using a Denon DL-110 through my Schiit Mani phono stage which BTW is absolutely stellar for the money. The sound is dynamic and engaging without the colouration/bloom my LP12 had. As vinyl is now my third source I think this vinyl rig is as far as i want to go.
Anyway good luck with your decision!:)
Thanks, hooked up the Mani again after listening to the MF LPS-V90 all day and the bass is the big difference between the two phono stages, I think, and, I think the Mani sounds better to me or it has more of a fuller sound with a lot of reverb (maybe warmer too) which the MF doesn't have much of, the Mani sounds more like the LFD but with a lot less pace.
This is a difficult choice, probably need more time with each of them.
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