Refugees...

[anthonyTD]

From seeing this atrocity unraveling from the beginning, and all of us witnessing what these people are going through from news reports, not just from the [sometimes] biased BBC, but from all over the news networks,i feel utterly ashamed to be a part of the human race sometimes.
And since becoming a parent quite late on in life, and thus experiencing first hand how precious life is, i cant help but feel absolutely heart broken and helpless at times when i see, in this day and age how in-humane we as humans can be towards each other!:(
Anthony,TD...

[walpurgis]

There are certainly tragic circumstances forcing many of the people we see on the news to depart their homelands and they were refugees when they crossed over a border into the first safe country or state they entered. But! They became economic migrants once they took a look around their new 'safe haven' and decided they wanted something better and moved on into the next country and then onwards towards western Europe. Many are not from Syria or fleeing war zones. I'm making an observation here not a judgement.

[StanleyB]

Having been a refugee myself when I was about five, I can understand to some extent the problems facing many of these people. But what is quite clear in this particular case is that these folks are not just happy with being in a safe country. They want to pick and choose which country they want to end up in. That doesn't sound like a refugee to me. Call it economic migrant, but let's not forget the Trojan horse. Many of these refugees are young men of certain religious denomination. That alone makes me feel a bit uneasy. Even more so, given that Saudi Arabia has offered to fund the building of mosques all across Europe for followers of their faith. This looks like a hidden agenda.

[struth]

The devil's finest trick is to persuade you that he does not exist

[Macca]

The Hungarians put up a fence yesterday to stop them - which it did - but they were all still just milling around on the other side of it, unsure what to do next

Then there was that youth who drowned trying to swim a river into Macedonia without realising there was a completely unguarded bridge half a mile upstream.

A couple of nights ago there was a wealthy couple interviewed who said they would be happy to put up some refugees in their house. They had obviously never spent a day in their lives and were completely away with the fairies but people like that really annoy me: going on telly to make out how good they were and implying their moral superiority over the rest if us. Like Bob f***king Geldof. That sort of thing is the real tragedy if you ask me.

[mik_rik]

If ,by their actions ,they have done something good by their actions in a humanitarian and none judgmental way ,then yes,they do have a moral "supreiority" over you

[mik_rik]

Sometimes people hide guilt/shame by being critical of people who do good

[StanleyB]

A couple of nights ago there was a wealthy couple interviewed who said they would be happy to put up some refugees in their house. They had obviously never spent a day in their lives and were completely away with the fairies but people like that really annoy me: going on telly to make out how good they were and implying their moral superiority over the rest if us. Like Bob f***king Geldof. That sort of thing is the real tragedy if you ask me.
When I was on the move I was given shelter by poor as well as filthy rich people. I shall forever be grateful for that.

[walpurgis]

Having been a refugee myself when I was about five, I can understand to some extent the problems facing many of these people. But what is quite clear in this particular case is that these folks are not just happy with being in a safe country. They want to pick and choose which country they want to end up in. That doesn't sound like a refugee to me. Call it economic migrant, but let's not forget the Trojan horse. Many of these refugees are young men of certain religious denomination. That alone makes me feel a bit uneasy. Even more so, given that Saudi Arabia has offered to fund the building of mosques all across Europe for followers of their faith. This looks like a hidden agenda.

Yes. There is a fair certainty that we and the rest of Europe are 'importing' terrorist infiltrators and many others who can be converted to Anti-West causes.

[mik_rik]

Wonder how many we took in1939 turned out to be "terrorists".Lots of them fleeing had to travel through other countries before reaching Britain ,were these refugees or economic migrants

[Us-&-Them]

From seeing this atrocity unraveling from the beginning, and all of us witnessing what these people are going through from news reports, not just from the [sometimes] biased BBC, but from all over the news networks,i feel utterly ashamed to be a part of the human race sometimes.
And since becoming a parent quite late on in life, and thus experiencing first hand how precious life is, i cant help but feel absolutely heart broken and helpless at times when i see, in this day and age how in-humane we as humans can be towards each other!:(
Anthony,TD...

Trouble is, this kind of subject matter shares borders with politics and then political agenda/views cant help being mentioned (or interpreted as being mentioned) in replies so, I doubt whether anyone will comment on this; such is the extent of how politics has got its slimy tentacles into every facet of human existence and/or expression !!!! When politics shows up, people tend to shut up!!! SAD !!!!

I do agree with you though !!

[walpurgis]

If ,by their actions ,they have done something good by their actions in a humanitarian and none judgmental way ,then yes,they do have a moral "supreiority" over you

Over whom?

I certainly would not claim moral superiority over decent people. Nor would I accept anybody has moral superiority over me.

[walpurgis]

Wonder how many we took in1939 turned out to be "terrorists".Lots of them fleeing had to travel through other countries before reaching Britain ,were these refugees or economic migrants

Totally different situation.

[mik_rik]

anybody doing good for the right reasons ,has always got the moral higher ground over people who do wrong or nothing at all when the chance presents itself.ps I did not shout

[mik_rik]

Totally different situation.

Close enough for anybody to see the point .

[StanleyB]

Wonder how many we took in1939 turned out to be "terrorists".Lots of them fleeing had to travel through other countries before reaching Britain ,were these refugees or economic migrants
If you look at the ones who committed or tried to commit terrorist acts in this country over the last ten or so years, you'll find that many of them are from families who were given permission to come and live in the UK many years ago. But they are of a specific religious order. The UK gave sanctuary to the Jews, Poles, and French during WWII, and to the Hindus that Idi Amin put on flights to the UK. Have any of these refused to integrate, or expressed anti British feelings, or committed acts of terrorism? No. It is always a particular section that are causing concern. And adding to that problem by allowing in more persons of similar disposition who on top of that might have had combat experience should not be taken likely.

[mik_rik]

I will not let the edges of what I have said become blurred ,if I saw the chance to do a humanitarian act,then I would take it.If I had the chance to save drowning people in the Med,I would not worry about their ethnic /religious background ,I would expect others to be the same.In 1939 ,it had nothing to do with what might happen in future.and as a last point ,what would have happened if a certain physicist called Albert Enstein was not given refugee status

[struth]

Ive no problem with immigrants who want to integrate into the country and be good citizens, but want nothing to do with the others. Sometimes telling the difference is nigh on impossible, but the govt departments have a duty to protect the citizens in this country from terrorists, and it really has to be, if in doubt say no, as you woukd if someone you thought was decidedly dodgy came to your door wanting to come in for a look around. I know it sounds harsh for some but this is not an ideal world; if it were we wouldnt be having the discussion.
Other than that I will stay out of it

[Spectral Morn]

And so Europe reaps the fallout of the Arab spring. Remove the strong men, unpleasant or not and a vacuum was filled with even more extreme, unpleasant people who now destroy and wreck round them.

I wish the West would give thought and understanding to the history, cultural and social realities of the countries we seek to involve ourselves in before we do and I wish the other Arab/ Muslim nations would put their sectarian/Tribal divides aside to pull their weight in standing up to Isis and the like.

Don't misunderstand I think we should not stand back and let genocides occur but it often seems that the West completely misunderstands how things work in other countries and particularly Muslim ones and we seek to inflict political and social solutions on them that they don't want.

I watch the images on the news and my heart weeps for the deaths and suffering but I too have grave concerns re what might be lurking among those faces, agendas that would see Western blood flow. I am not sure what the answer is here, its an awful mess :(



Regards Neil

[walpurgis]

Hoping that middle eastern and African countries will join forces and stamp out war mongering extremists is a lost cause. The area has been strife ridden for thousands of years. Nothing will change.

[Spectral Morn]

Hoping that middle eastern and African countries will join forces and stamp out war mongering extremists is a lost cause. The area has been strife ridden for thousands of years. Nothing will change.

I know.


Regards Neil

[Ninanina]

I watch the images on the news and my heart weeps for the deaths and suffering but I too have grave concerns re what might be lurking among those faces, agendas that would see Western blood flow. I am not sure what the answer is here, its an awful mess :(
Regards Neil

+1

I agree with a lot of what has been said, and it's been said in a much better way than I would have put it which is why I haven't commented

[Joe]

Hoping that middle eastern and African countries will join forces and stamp out war mongering extremists is a lost cause. The area has been strife ridden for thousands of years. Nothing will change.

Much like Europe, then.

[spm]

it's a tragic and pretty hopeless situation. I think there are major risks whether significant refugees are welcomed into the uk or shut out (which may lead to more widespread resentment of the uk). Personally I don't think people should be judged by the actions of a minority and we need to help refugees and accept larger numbers. I accept that this will have security implications but I think risks will be high irrespective because of our history of involvement overseas. It may be a case that we are damned if we do and damned if we don't but in comparison to many people on this planet I have had a very privileged life through luck of birth and don't like the thought of people in a desperate situation having little hope of a better life whether that be people fleeing war in the middle east or famine in Africa.

[Ninanina]

So if the powers that be said we are taking in 1,000,000 refugees would that be ok ?

[Marco]

As long as they all joined AoS! :thumbsup:

Marco.

[Ninanina]

As long as they all joined AoS! :thumbsup:

Marco.


:rfl::rfl:

[spm]

1m I think would be too many although it is worth noting that this is the number of refugees that are in Lebanon a country with a population of only 4.5m. As I understand it we are offering to accept 4k a year for 5 years which I think is too low.

[Ninanina]

1m I think would be too many although it is worth noting that this is the number of refugees that are in Lebanon a country with a population of only 4.5m. As I understand it we are offering to accept 4k a year for 5 years which I think is too low.

So how many would be ok ?

England officially has become the most overcrowded country in Europe... these are the figures:

Number of people expected to be living per square kilometre in 2015 - by country

England - 419
Holland - 408
Wales - 258
Germany - 226
Italy - 205
N. Ireland - 130
Poland - 123
Portugal - 116
France - 105
Romania - 89
Bulgaria - 66
Scotland - 40

And it is forecast that by 2046 an astonishing 494 people will be living in each square kilometre in England and the equivalent figure for France will be just 115, for Germany 204

I think we are full to bursting already and our infrastructure cannot cope

[spm]

Taking in a significant no of refugees will of course lead to problems but there is a humanitarian crisis and I think we need to take greater responsibility. From memory we accept around 0.5m immigrants a year so 4k is less than 1% so I would have thought we could take a few 10's of thousands a year. Ideally we would curb economic immigration while we have this crisis but that doesn't look possible with European Union rules.

[walpurgis]

I think we are full to bursting already and our infrastructure cannot cope

Absolutely! Try living here. Every unlikely little patch of spare land is being grabbed for building blocks of flats and there's still a severe housing shortage.

Mind you, there'd be a bit more room if the hundreds thousands (probably millions if the truth was told) of illegal immigrants who have no business being here were actually dealt with properly and booted out instead of being bailed and disappearing after every time they've been detained.

There are many who simply refuse to identify themselves, produce no papers and won't say where they are from. Not much is done about it. They should be given hard labour detention until they cough up the facts!

I notice many of the 'migrants' seen on TV news appear somewhat oriental. Hardly from Syria then.

[Ninanina]

Ideally we would curb economic immigration while we have this crisis but that doesn't look possible with European Union rules.

That would be ideal if we wanted to take in refugees 'instead' but as you say that won't happen

It's not that I don't care about the plight of the refugees, because I do. I say these things with no political bent with no prejudice or discrimination but only a belief that England is pretty full already

[struth]

Scotland looks empty but you have take into account the vast tracts of land that are all but uninhabitable in any real sense.

[walpurgis]

Scotland looks empty but you have take into account the vast tracts of land that are all but uninhabitable in any real sense.

Might be 'cos there's a whole load of your lot down here (well around here anyway). :)

[struth]

They are mostly Glasgae folk that even we diddne want ;) ....like Marco:lol:

[Firebottle]

:rfl:

[Ali Tait]

Might be 'cos there's a whole load of your lot down here (well around here anyway). :)

Plenty of your lot up here too..

[Marco]

They are mostly Glasgae folk that even we diddne want ;) ....like Marco:lol:

Aye, too many of yooz choochters, mair like! :D

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

Neds mair like! :-)

[Marco]

N6-wzwYtkOQ

:D :D

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

:lol:

[anthonyTD]

+1
:lol:

[Floyddroid]

Whilst we should be compassionate to the plight of these poor people we must also beware of the Trojan horse.

[walpurgis]

Whilst we should be compassionate to the plight of these poor people we must also beware of the Trojan horse.

Very true, at a time when we are on the highest terrorism security alert for twenty years. Should we really be importing more possible problems. Make no mistake, some of the migrants will be suspect.

They are all migrants. Not refugees. They ceased to be refugees once they crossed the border out of the first safe haven.

Funny how they're all headed this way. I've not heard of any queuing to get into India, China or Russia for instance. I wonder why?

[walpurgis]

I'll correct that. We are now on the highest security alert for forty years, not twenty.

[r100]

They are all migrants. Not refugees. They ceased to be refugees once they crossed the border out of the first safe haven.

That is a very important distinction legally and will further complicate an already terribly complicated situation.

http://www.unhcr.org/55df0e556.html

[Ninanina]

Very true, at a time when we are on the highest terrorism security alert for twenty years. Should we really be importing more possible problems. Make no mistake, some of the migrants will be suspect.
They are all migrants. Not refugees. They ceased to be refugees once they crossed the border out of the first safe haven.
Funny how they're all headed this way. I've not heard of any queuing to get into India, China or Russia for instance. I wonder why?

Very well put... ;)

[archiesdad]

Regardless of what anyone might call them, I've still to meet anybody who wants the proposed number into this country or any number suggested otherwise, I'm sure the homeless in Dunfermline or any anyone sleeping rough in this country think refugees [or whatever ]have a greater right to help before the people already here do. Why are so many of them young men who should be protecting their homelands against the spread of the evil ISIS rather than running to wherever they think will house and clothe them?

[struth]

good point

[walpurgis]

I see the Vatican is giving itself a big pat on the back and loudly announcing that it has taken in a Syrian refugee family and will support them during their asylum period. Well bully for them. Perhaps they'd like to take the other 300,000 and give themselves an even bigger pat on the back.

[Macca]

Vatican City would get a bit crowded. And there would be a desperate shortage of mosques.

[archiesdad]

Vatican City would get a bit crowded. And there would be a desperate shortage of mosques.

The family they are taking in are in fact christian, but, they are going to double their intake. Although infact, as the population of the VC is around 1k people 2 families may represent a sizeable percentage? Greater than many of the wealthy Muslim countries around Syria perhaps.