View Full Version : Poor quality new vinyl
HackneyRF
15-09-2015, 09:05
Morning all.
I guess this may well have been covered elsewhere on the forum.
What are people's experience of new vinyl nowadays? Any thoughts on the quality of the pressings and the levels at which they have had to return/exchange copies
Maybe I have just been unlucky recently, but increasingly I have had to return new records bought either from online retailers or shops. Recent examples include a warped Led Zeppelin 3 bought at Rough Trade. This was exchanged for a good copy in store. A warped version of Red House Painters - Rollercoaster. Again Rough Trade but this time all the copies they had in stock were warped. Stars of the Lid - Avec Laudenum bought online with heavy surface noise. Had to return that. And just yesterday a reissue of Rush - Exit Stage Left which played great until the last third of the last track, when it suddenly dropped off in output and sounded like it had been recorded in a toilet backstage. I know this record well and also have an older copy which I made a comparison with, so know how it is supposed to sound. A pressing fault?
All the best
Loz
Wakefield Turntables
15-09-2015, 09:10
Latest slayer "relentless" pressings looks like it's been melted over a griddle, more warping than a very warped thing. :steam:
Phil Lawton
15-09-2015, 10:59
Had a protracted session recently with a new disc with the spindle hole about 7mm off centre...completely unplayable and took an age to get it back to the seller and a refund issued.
The thing I'm finding inexplicable is the short-sightedness/ignorance of labels and manufacturing companies regarding the deleterious effects that cardboard inners have upon their contents. It's sheer good fortune if you can get a disc out of such a container without inducing at least one minor scratch.
I'd happily stump up the extra quid for a poly-lined inner to hold the disc, along with the (usually art-festooned) cardboard inner.
Phil Lawton
15-09-2015, 11:00
And a copy of "Everyday" by Cinematic Orchestra which sounded as if it'd been cut with one of Edison's cylinder machines.
Spectral Morn
15-09-2015, 11:46
I am pretty tardy listening to new purchases - more so these days than in the past - but these comments are worrying me re vinyl I have bought more recently that sits still sealed and unheard.
Regards Neil
Simon_LDT
15-09-2015, 12:07
Been having problems like this for a few years now. I had some good luck the past couple months where I had to return nothing but just lately I'm getting bad copies again. I've seen everything from warps, off-centre, non-fill, deep scratches and even foreign objects somehow pressed into the vinyl.
It's so frustrating too, especially when you're wasting time contacting retailers/sorting out a return/packaging and sending back when I could be listening to the music.
Buying older/used is even worse though. Too many LP's in poor condition and inflated prices. I've picked up some good stuff but mostly it gets sent back. Some can look mint but sound terrible if it has groove damage.
Sometimes I do think about jacking it in but I end up getting lured back in with certain releases. I'd be buying a lot more if quality was better though...
I am pretty tardy listening to new purchases - more so these days than in the past - but these comments are worrying me re vinyl I have bought more recently that sits still sealed and unheard.
Regards Neil
Agreed! At the weekend, I finally got round to playing one I had sent from the states months ago ... it's warped. Can I be bothered with the hassle of a return? Well, it plays ....but, this is an Audio Fidelity 'numbered edition', and I would have expected better for the money I paid.
keiron99
15-09-2015, 12:21
I'd say about 50% of new records I buy disappoint me in one way or another. Never had this problem 35 years ago.
As for used records, by and large they are a joke. It seems most peoples definition of "Mint" is what I'd call "Crap that should go straight in the bin".
Phil Lawton
15-09-2015, 13:45
As for used records, by and large they are a joke. It seems most peoples definition of "Mint" is what I'd call "Crap that should go straight in the bin".
I've started asking sellers to play-test items I'm interested in. Some agree and report back honestly, some agree and are never heard from again and others just say 'no'. It's amazing how many vinyl sellers have no (or claim they have no) means to play the vinyl they're selling.
Smegger68
15-09-2015, 13:55
Above and beyond this is the quality of the recordings. A lot of records are mastered from a CD mix and then just levelled down to ensure the grooves fit ok. The new Maiden triple is a lovely quiet pressing but the mastering sounds a total mess :(
Phil Lawton
15-09-2015, 14:15
Above and beyond this is the quality of the recordings. A lot of records are mastered from a CD mix and then just levelled down to ensure the grooves fit ok. The new Maiden triple is a lovely quiet pressing but the mastering sounds a total mess :(
Yes, especially represses/reissues...bloody scandalous when you look at the prices for new vinyl.
Most new vinyl I have bought has been very good but my most recent purchase was Sigur Ros 'Hvarf-Heim' - not only was it a bit warped (quite playable though) but the recording quality, the mastering, is really piss poor.
Into the can of worms we go..................
Like most, experiences of new vinyl can be mixed. After two copies of "Private Investigations: The Best of Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler" I gave in and just settled on the third: only because I realised that they were probably all like this. The playing surface was just so noisy that I came to the conclusion it was embedded in the vinyl. Using the RCM gave no benefit. If I wanted this recording then this was how it was going to be.
Box set of "Cream: Live at the Royal Albert Hall" on Cream Vinyl (Yuk!) came with 2 of the 3 discs warped so back it went to Germany and I purchased the same thing on Black Vinyl (but without the box) from an outlet in Scotland and it's of the highest quality in every respect. I'm in danger of wearing it out it gets played so much.
The list goes on and on, but the VERY IMPORTANT thing to note, I humbly suggest, is don't let them get away with it. Accept crap and crap is what we'll get - keep sending it back. Someone's making money somewhere.........
At least Amazon have an easy returns system.
But the scary bit is that someone new to vinyl might think that the sub standard offerings sometimes received are how it is - and eventually just jack it in 'cause it's too much hassle.
Haselsh1
15-09-2015, 18:44
I have been buying new vinyl since 2003 to bolster my original collection but I have now decided not to buy anymore. I will simply not pay around or over twenty quid for something that sounds much more acceptable on compact disc and which costs half the price. Farewell vinyl, I should have learned the first time around.
Well, you've been extremely unlucky then - most records I have bought have been £20 or less and sounded significantly better than the CD alternative (I assume the Sogur Ros album I mentioned earlier sounds better on CD or it is absolutely dire)
HackneyRF
15-09-2015, 21:54
It's so frustrating too, especially when you're wasting time contacting retailers/sorting out a return/packaging and sending back when I could be listening to the music.
And I think that for me is what I find a bit frustrating too. I'm not about to throw in the towel, however I can think of better ways of spending my time. Contrary to some comments, overall I have found used vinyl to much more consistent, at least in the last couple of years.
I have been buying new vinyl since 2003 to bolster my original collection but I have now decided not to buy anymore. I will simply not pay around or over twenty quid for something that sounds much more acceptable on compact disc and which costs half the price. Farewell vinyl, I should have learned the first time around.
Really Sean? Is that a farewell to new vinyl only? Seems a pity to give up since you fitted that lovely plinth to your Thorens!
Cheers
Loz
Some interesting posts. I have been buying vinyl all may life I guess, but lately mostly 180gm stuff. The majority have been fine overall; some have had a slight warp or dish but nothing disastrous, and one or two have had a bad bit in the pressing. I got one that had a scratch on it and on closer inspection it had been resealed so a bad seller there. Mostly I find after 2 good cleans that they are very quiet and worth the money. Of course as most of what I buy is Jazz related this may be why. I have bought some " popular" stuff which tbh has been mostly of poorer quality both sonically and in pressing, so there may be something about press runs at play here.
Us-&-Them
15-09-2015, 22:39
Morning all.
I guess this may well have been covered elsewhere on the forum.
What are people's experience of new vinyl nowadays? Any thoughts on the quality of the pressings and the levels at which they have had to return/exchange copies
All the best
Loz
Morning Loz, from the other Loz on the forum :) I remember back in the late 60's, early 70's heavyweight vinyl came as standard, you didnt have to pay for the privilege and, if my memory serves me correctly, I never had to take a vinyl record back to the place of purchase - ever !! Maybe, like everything else nowadays, quality has been substituted for quick profit quantity????
Cheers !!
julesd68
16-09-2015, 00:14
Above and beyond this is the quality of the recordings. A lot of records are mastered from a CD mix and then just levelled down to ensure the grooves fit ok. The new Maiden triple is a lovely quiet pressing but the mastering sounds a total mess :(
Damn I haven't opened my new copy of Maiden yet!
Yep totally agreed there is a lot of cost cutting going on. Some of the mainstream record companies have realised they can sell lps but that doesn't always mean they will want to spend time and money doing the best job possible. Also not all the engineers mastering the lps are necessarily big fans of vinyl and perhaps that can show in the final product.
Sent 2 PF Endless River back now as records warped so really frustrated. Only guaranteed suppliers are Music on vinyl and Analogue Productions. Had no problems with anything from them. The Roger Waters Amused to death is simply astonishing quality in every way!!
Ive had a lot from juno and speedy hen without issue. Also our own daytona sent me a lovely disc when I used him
daytona600
16-09-2015, 20:31
Sent 2 PF Endless River back now as records warped so really frustrated. Only guaranteed suppliers are Music on vinyl and Analogue Productions. Had no problems with anything from them. The Roger Waters Amused to death is simply astonishing quality in every way!!
PF Endless River US version ( different cat no. ),was pressed @ AP/QRP flat as a pancake & silent
EU version pressed in a shed in eastern europe compared both & the 200g US version sounded better as well
Stick with QRP , Pallas , Mov/RT & RTI myself
GZ media as a example press millions & quality control is just shocking Warps/Dished/Powder Marks/dust + even footprints ( i kid you not ) even a Ultrasonic RCM could not shift
Agree with RW - Amused Stunning slab of vinyl the AP/QRP 200g)
Soundstage & dynamics of the charts Sold dozens , but 3 customers did serious damage to there systems with blown drivers & amps going up in puffs of smoke
HackneyRF
16-09-2015, 21:53
Stick with QRP , Pallas , Mov/RT & RTI myself
GZ media as a example press millions & quality control is just shocking Warps/Dished/Powder Marks/dust + even footprints ( i kid you not ) even a Ultrasonic RCM could not shift
Endulge me here in my ignorance Scott, but with that in mind is there an easy way to tell where a record is/has been pressed? Its not always apparent
Cheers
Loz
Phil Lawton
17-09-2015, 08:42
Received a 180g gram and sealed copy of Weather Report's 'Black Market' yesterday. Banged it through the RCM before letting the stylus anywhere near it...but still had small ticks on the intro of the first track and a disturbing amount of rumble.
I'll clean it again later, but it's going back if it's no better afterwards.
daytona600
17-09-2015, 09:08
Endulge me here in my ignorance Scott, but with that in mind is there an easy way to tell where a record is/has been pressed? Its not always apparent
Cheers
Loz
Loz If they don,t tell you where it was pressed or who mastered it or source material or AAA or Digital
they don,t care & just want your money Probably a protools master done on a laptop & emailed to the pressing plant that quotes the lowest price Would you buy food with no label showing a list of the ingredients Horse Burgers anyone
Labels that spend months/years working on a title with a respected mastering engineer @ $350 per hour
& pressed at a high end pressing plant & working from the original mastertape in pure analogue
will clearly state this with a big sticker on the cover & printed on the outer sleeve
PF Endless River US version ( different cat no. ),was pressed @ AP/QRP flat as a pancake & silent
EU version pressed in a shed in eastern europe compared both & the 200g US version sounded better as well
Stick with QRP , Pallas , Mov/RT & RTI myself
GZ media as a example press millions & quality control is just shocking Warps/Dished/Powder Marks/dust + even footprints ( i kid you not ) even a Ultrasonic RCM could not shift
Agree with RW - Amused Stunning slab of vinyl the AP/QRP 200g)
Soundstage & dynamics of the charts Sold dozens , but 3 customers did serious damage to there systems with blown drivers & amps going up in puffs of smoke
I can believe folk blowing their speakers with Amused to death, awesome production. Did you see the Analog Planet review ? Thanks for the tip on PF Endless River pressing .
Us-&-Them
17-09-2015, 11:30
i will simply not pay around or over twenty quid for something that sounds much more acceptable on compact disc and which costs half the price. Farewell vinyl, i should have learned the first time around.
absolutely my sentiments - verbatim!!!
daytona600
17-09-2015, 13:46
I can believe folk blowing their speakers with Amused to death, awesome production. Did you see the Analog Planet review ? Thanks for the tip on PF Endless River pressing .
Amused To Death is A Singular Sonic Spectacular
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/amused-death%C2%A0-singular-sonic-spectacular#AyDRlSqVReZ90cCs.97
Haselsh1
17-09-2015, 15:21
And I think that for me is what I find a bit frustrating too. I'm not about to throw in the towel, however I can think of better ways of spending my time. Contrary to some comments, overall I have found used vinyl to much more consistent, at least in the last couple of years.
Really Sean? Is that a farewell to new vinyl only? Seems a pity to give up since you fitted that lovely plinth to your Thorens!
Cheers
Loz
Yes Loz, it is primarily a farewell to being ripped off to the sum of £20 - £25 for something that is simply not worth it. One thing I will reinforce though are the comments about Amused To Death by Roger Waters. This recording is quite stunning. Given that this is the case, why do we have to put up with such a shedload of shite from other recordings...? Personally, I'd rather pay out a tenner for a CD that has no background noise and superior stereo imaging. My choice of course.
keiron99
17-09-2015, 19:36
Interestingly re Amused to Death, quite a lot of buyers on Hoffman forums underwhelmed by the pressing quality and having to return it. It's put me off buying it.
Haselsh1
18-09-2015, 14:22
Interestingly re Amused to Death, quite a lot of buyers on Hoffman forums underwhelmed by the pressing quality and having to return it. It's put me off buying it.
I bought the re-release on CD and vinyl and have no real issues with the vinyl apart from it costing thirty six quid which it surely cannot be worth. The stereo is much better on my CD than it is on my vinyl but the sound is much more explosive on vinyl.
Phil Lawton
21-09-2015, 13:21
Better after a second clean, but this isn't right for brand new records, surely?
As a contrast, I picked up an early copy of Steve Hillage's 'L' on Sunday for £3...one clean and it's as quiet as Michael Barrymore's fan club.
Received a 180g gram and sealed copy of Weather Report's 'Black Market' yesterday. Banged it through the RCM before letting the stylus anywhere near it...but still had small ticks on the intro of the first track and a disturbing amount of rumble.
I'll clean it again later, but it's going back if it's no better afterwards.
SteveTheShadow
28-07-2016, 16:59
I know this thread is ancient, but I'm currently getting back into vinyl after a 25 year hiatus.
My son built me a turntable from a Lenco L75 and I rebuilt an old Mayware Formula 4 pickup, fitting a Shure M97xE cart:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7181882/mayware1.jpeg
It's a lovely thing, but out of the first two new pieces of the black stuff I've bought I only have a fifty percent success rate. A double vinyl release on Ace Records of the first of the old Kent "Mod Jazz" series is a great sounding pair of platters, but the vinyl release of David Gilmour's "Rattle That Lock" sounds as dull as ditchwater. The free Mp3 download accessed with the little card with the code on it, supplied with the disc sounds far better overall, with a huge expansive soundstage. Of course, the packaging with these new issues is gorgeous, but is that worth the premium.
Going through my old vinyl I have about a 90% success rate so far, with the good being stunning and the worst being good. The 10% that is bad is really bad and I'm not talking about surface noise or scratches, I'm talking about piss poor sound.
I do like the vinyl experience, but for me, my turntable is for playing my existing collection, once the duds have been weeded out and got rid of. I am a bit leery of new issues and will probably be sticking to digital for those.
Not bought many new 180/200 gm versions that have been poor sound wise, but did have 1 especially, as you say, dull as dishwater sound to it. I wouldnt be too afraid of picking up nice stuff.. if your into Sinatra, Armstrong, Ellington, simone etc then their output thats been redone is all top notch
PS, thats a nice deck.. great job
Your son is clearly pretty talented. If you'd said it was the new 'Emperor Kingdom II' from some obscure high end TT manufacturer no-one would know any different.
SteveTheShadow
28-07-2016, 17:10
Cheers Grant,
I'm well into jazz and swing vocals, so its nice to know that it aint all bad.
Martin,
Yep, he's good with wood and mechanical things.
Keep the Faith Steve and send it back - it helps us all in the long run.
"Rattle That Lock" isn't supposed to be dull and I'd think the man himself would be appalled that you were having to listen to something so far away from what he put together. I'd implore you to keep returning it until you get a good one. My copy was full fat from the word go so yours certainly isn't as it should be.
My vinyl buying does fall on it's a*se sometimes but I'd guess 99% of new vinyl I purchase lives up to or surpasses my expectations.
I'll add my congrats to a nice looking TT.
SteveTheShadow
28-07-2016, 17:51
I'll try returnng it and report back on what happens.
My 1973 copy of DSOTM sounds fantastic on vinyl, which is why I cant understand the discrepancy with Rattle That Lock.
My first UK pressing of DSOTM, which I'd had from day one, became unplayable a couple of years ago after a nasty incident that pains me even now.:doh:
I bought a replacement in the form of a heavyweight re-master and guess what? It's easily as good as the original - probably even better. Division Bell re-issue is also excellent but whilst we're in Gilmour-Waters territory have a look at Amused to Death if you haven't already. SQ and pressing quality is totally outstanding: I'd go as far as to say perhaps the best I've ever come across.
SteveTheShadow
29-08-2016, 09:53
I'll try returnng it and report back on what happens.
My 1973 copy of DSOTM sounds fantastic on vinyl, which is why I cant understand the discrepancy with Rattle That Lock.
Returned "Rattle That Lock" and got myself a new pressing.
Completely different kettle of fish, this one. Sounds great, as you would have expected from DG.
I'm happy now.
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