Croft pre outs

[vinyljunky]

I have a croft phono intergrated know this may sound a bit thick but does it have any pre outs.I know it has 3 line level inputs.The reason for wanting to know this is I now have nva monoblocks and was wondering if I could use the intergrated as a pre thus saving on buying a pre and a new phono stage:scratch:

[Firebottle]

The integrated only has a line out which is equivalent to a 'tape out' function.

It is an output taken before the volume control so isn't suitable to drive external power amps as a pre/power.
A modification would be necessary but the internal circuit impedances are high as it's a valve design, and I'm guessing the NVA has a relatively low input impedance being an SS amp.

So not a great match even with a pre out :doh: Would ideally need a buffer stage to provide a low output impedance from the Croft.

:)

[vinyljunky]

Alan your right about the impedance what I would need would be a low impedance ss passive pre to avoid the mismatch any suggestions

[Macca]

An NVA passive pre would seem to be the logical match, but depends on how much you can spend

[vinyljunky]

That's what I was edging towards Martin Mr Dunn would have it that way but fancied going to the dark side and trying another brand of pre possibly valve not sure if the valves would be a match seeing as the nva,s are low impedance

[struth]

Could use a buffer to solve your probs.. The mf x10v3 is the best model. Has a lovely sounding valve inside

[RichB]

Croft and NVA don't match mate. The output on the Croft is way too hot. I've been there and done it, therefore I use my Croft pre as a phono stage only, now into the analogue input of my benchmark DAC which seems very happy into the NVA amps.

As such my passive is sitting here looking for a new home. You're welcome to have a loan mate so you can decide whether a passive is for you.

[vinyljunky]

Fantastic gesture rich I think I'll take you up on your offer I'll send a pm

[RichB]

Fantastic gesture rich I think I'll take you up on your offer I'll send a pm

Replied.

[Stratmangler]

NVA power amplifiers have a higher gain structure than many other power amplifiers, which means they play nice with passive attenuation.
Sticking an active device in front is not advisable.
It probably accounts for the varied performance reports of the NVA cables too. The cables are meant to be run in passive attenuation setups.

[Barry]

NVA power amplifiers have a higher gain structure than many other power amplifiers, which means they play nice with passive attenuation.
Sticking an active device in front is not advisable.
It probably accounts for the varied performance reports of the NVA cables too. The cables are meant to be run in passive attenuation setups.

What about NVA preamps? Are they not intended to be used with NVA poweramps?

[Stratmangler]

What about NVA preamps? Are they not intended to be used with NVA poweramps?

NVA do not make preamplifiers.
NVA do make boxes which can switch sources and can attenuate volume passively.

[Macca]

if you ask me a 'pre-amplifier' is something that goes before the amplifier. So it is sort of legitimate to call a passive a 'pre-amp'. Or should we go back to the 'Fifties and call them 'control units'?

That might cause more confusion than it solves ;)

[Stratmangler]

if you ask me a 'pre-amplifier' is something that goes before the amplifier. So it is sort of legitimate to call a passive a 'pre-amp'. Or should we go back to the 'Fifties and call them 'control units'?

That might cause more confusion than it solves ;)

So using that logic an interconnect cable is a preamp, as is a turntable or CD player or any other source you care to think of.
Control unit would be a more accurate description.
A passive switchbox/attenuator is an even more accurate description :)

[Macca]

Fine, control unit it is then. Henceforth anyone using the term 'pre-amplifier' for a passive device will get a week's ban. No appeals. ;)

[Stratmangler]

Fine, control unit it is then. Henceforth anyone using the term 'pre-amplifier' for a passive device will get a week's ban. No appeals. ;)

:yay:

[struth]

Its a pre amp as long as the passive bit is in title me thinks so im banned! Where shall I go? What shall I do?"..."Frankly my dear, i dont give a damn" :eyebrows: new that quote would come along again:eek:

[Macca]

After all, tomorrow is another day. :)

[DSJR]

Please may I add from first-hand experience, that NVA power amps aren't hugely more sensitive than many other 'classic' amps out there? I currently have an amp menagerie at home - Crown D-60's bridged and standard, Quad 303, HH VX300, Krell KSA 50S (the least sensitive of them all) and NVA amps and can truthfully say that a 'passive' pre is fine with all of them.

You could put a 47k log pot/attenuator between the fixed output of the Croft and the NVA's if you wanted to, but you're adding up a lot of boxes ;) (takes one to know one :rolleyes:).

[paskinn]

Croft being Croft, Glenn will alter the gain to suit. I use Quad 11s (1.4V) so need a bit of drive...so Glenn provided a high-output linestage. I've also had lower output riaa stages from him. Very flexible design.
You can also have the tape-out buffered, which I have had done. So my line stage was high output with buffer.And you can have these things retrofitted. Pretty good stuff.
On the thorny subject of passives, and TVCs, they are usually very transparent, but sometimes the extra 'grunt' of an active pre can be welcome. Thus the Quad 303 (0.5V) works well with a decent passive, the Quad 11 doesn't, not enough gain.

[Arkless Electronics]

An attenuator is the correct term for a passive if one is in pedantic mode....
The Croft can be easily modified to have pre out.

[Stratmangler]

An attenuator is the correct term for a passive if one is in pedantic mode....
The Croft can be easily modified to have pre out.

I think that part of the problems encountered are that civilians frequently bandy terms around without properly understanding them.
Pendantry sometimes has to be the modus operandi :cool:

[Arkless Electronics]

I think that part of the problems encountered are that civilians frequently bandy terms around without properly understanding them.
Pendantry sometimes has to be the modus operandi :cool:

Yes indeed! In guitar amps people tend to refer to all but the output valves as being "pre-amp valves"...

[Stratmangler]

Yes indeed! In guitar amps people tend to refer to all but the output valves as being "pre-amp valves"...

Just 'cos they're all around the same size :eek: