denon dl-160 loading advice

[karma67]

ive been playing with the settings on my Nakamichi ca5 pre amp,ive found the denon sounds best to me with the phono stage set to mc with a load of 100ohms. ive been trying to understand what this is and im getting rather confused.
As this is a high output moving coil cartridge it should be used through the mm stage but it just sounds better in mc at 100ohms why is this?
and in laymans terms please!

[struth]

Its a high op mc actually. Should be used on mm . I would think the op would be way too high on mc

[karma67]

yep,see how confused im getting!
i agree grant but alot of posts on the net say load at 1 kohm,
see here,
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Nakamichi+ca5&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=31bjVZuEAoHzUO-3lcgO#q=denon+dl-160+loading

[struth]

The loading will make a difference. Its not silly high op so guess if it works good then great. I never used the mc on it.

[blake]

Gain/Output synergy becomes much more critical as cartridge output is reduced.

Although the 160 is technically rated at 1.6 mV output by Denon, many users have stated that its real world output is in the 2.2 mV range. Even if it is, your Nak preamp MM input puts out approximately 40 dB of gain with a 47K input (which the Denon was designed to be used into). That's still probably about 3 dB light, which would result in a bit of an anemic, played through a wet blanket kind of presentation.

On the other hand, while the MC input has significantly more gain (about 62 dB) when you load the cartridge down to 100 ohms you significantly reduce its output. Slightly more gain may be more appealing than not enough gain, so the MC input may indeed sound better.

And while many report that the cartridge sounds best loaded at 1000 ohms you have to wonder if they have a gain mismatch as well. It is indeed possible that 1000 ohms is best, but the cartridge is, in fact, designed to be run into a 47K input and really needs about 43 dB of gain as an ideal if the output is 2.2 mV. If it's less it needs more than that.

It's a common problem with HO MC's and why you find the internet audio forums are littered with comments from users having problems with them. Most of them find themselves in a kind of "no man's land" situation with respect to gain with most phono stages. Either too little or too much gain when you really need to get it right.

[petrat]

Good post, Blake :clap:

[karma67]

Gain/Output synergy becomes much more critical as cartridge output is reduced.

Although the 160 is technically rated at 1.6 mV output by Denon, many users have stated that its real world output is in the 2.2 mV range. Even if it is, your Nak preamp MM input puts out approximately 40 dB of gain with a 47K input (which the Denon was designed to be used into). That's still probably about 3 dB light, which would result in a bit of an anemic, played through a wet blanket kind of presentation.

On the other hand, while the MC input has significantly more gain (about 62 dB) when you load the cartridge down to 100 ohms you significantly reduce its output. Slightly more gain may be more appealing than not enough gain, so the MC input may indeed sound better.

And while many report that the cartridge sounds best loaded at 1000 ohms you have to wonder if they have a gain mismatch as well. It is indeed possible that 1000 ohms is best, but the cartridge is, in fact, designed to be run into a 47K input and really needs about 43 dB of gain as an ideal if the output is 2.2 mV. If it's less it needs more than that.

It's a common problem with HO MC's and why you find the internet audio forums are littered with comments from users having problems with them. Most of them find themselves in a kind of "no man's land" situation with respect to gain with most phono stages. Either too little or too much gain when you really need to get it right.

thanks,thats a great reply,just what i was after.
ive just picked up a Nagaoka MP500 to try so the denon dl-160 is for sale now.

[struth]

My stage has an intermediate level fortunately at about 42 so denon is bang on with 47k

[walpurgis]

I've always used the DL-160s I've owned into regular 47k loading and not had any bother with tonal balance or output levels.

[struth]

Ive had my denon on for a week or so and had to go get the dip switch diagram to get gain right. Low was too low and high was too high... I couldnt remember the sequence for mid...now its bang on and sounding as good as it ever did. They are fabulous carts imo.

[karma67]

I've always used the DL-160s I've owned into regular 47k loading and not had any bother with tonal balance or output levels.

me neither,it was just slighty better on mc which is why i asked the question,further googling and it seemed others used it on different settings,anyway its grants fault for giving me the options to try! :)
its off the arm now,im just setting up the mp500,paracetamol at the ready!

im not knocking it grant by the way,its a lovely cartridge.

[struth]

That should be an enjoyable experience Jamie. Supposed to be a lovely cart.wish i were puting it on my tt...enjoy

[karma67]

i hate it,i always end up with a massive tension headache,no pain no gain as they say!:lol:

[dowser]

I have a few dl110s as backup carts - I never liked them into MM Naim cards, far preferring MC cards (like lifting a cardboard box from over speakers :)). Even having it into my Croft MM stage while good it always left me wanting a bit more sparkle. Now I have a headamp I will one day try it on low gain setting in between cart and Croft. If it sounds better into an MC stage, it is better :)

[walpurgis]

Keep the DL-160. It's a great back-up cart and decent ones are getting harder to find.

[DSJR]

I remember trying a DL110 into an MC load and a silly grin coming over my face :) I could be totally wrong and probably am here, but pulling the load down from a nominal 47k to 100 ohms might just pull the output down enough not to overload an MC input.

Now the DL160's gone, the DL110 is making new friends again all over. It's stable and works in all manner of tonearms from a lightweight Grace 707 to a massier Jelco and the techie arm in between :)

[337alant]

Im using my DL160 into my paradise Phono stage 55db gain and 100ohms loading sounds superb
I have a cambidge 640P phono and I prefer the same cart through the MC there as well.

Alan