The awful truth of DAB

[Jimbo]

I find myself this weekend without vinyl so in an attempt to get some tunes on the stereo I have resorted to using my old but faithful Denon Tuner TU- 260Lii.

However I thought I would try listening to Digital radio via the internet through my system as a comparison - Oh dear, terrible. I quickly resorted back to FM

tp://www.techradar.com/news/car-tech/why-dab-radio-in-the-uk-is-broken-and-how-to-fix-it-1217586

I think this article explains why

[DSJR]

FM is *apparently* now taken from the DAB feed, so should now (in the UK) always sound worse as FM modulation adds some distortion (a lower mid bloom) to the true sound. Not a bad thing, but added to the dire processing of the DAB audio feed, I now find UK FM radio almost unlistenable - and the domestic tuner of choice is an Arcam Delta 80, which used to sound superbly clear and open-toned!

[lurcher]

I have to ask the obvious question. How do you listen to DAB via the internet?

[Jimbo]

FM is *apparently* now taken from the DAB feed, so should now (in the UK) always sound worse as FM modulation adds some distortion (a lower mid bloom) to the true sound. Not a bad thing, but added to the dire processing of the DAB audio feed, I now find UK FM radio almost unlistenable - and the domestic tuner of choice is an Arcam Delta 80, which used to sound superbly clear and open-toned!

My Denon tuner is at this moment playing a radio 3 jazz broadcast and it sounds superb - good enough for me. I don,t often listen to radio through my stereo so would not invest in anything else.

As far as Fm using a digital feed I believe there is a lot of jiggery pockery depending on what transmitter you are listening too but I don,t doubt the digital gremlins are in their somewhere. However listening to the same broadcast via the tinternet is poor in comparison so there must be something better going via FM?

[Jimbo]

I have to ask the obvious question. How do you listen to DAB via the internet?

I think you know the answer to that Nick:)

[lurcher]

I think you know the answer to that Nick:)

Well, as far as I am aware, you can't. So why did you say you were?

[Jimbo]

Well, as far as I am aware, you can't. So why did you say you were?


Where did I say I was listening to DAB via the internet?

[awkwardbydesign]

I find myself this weekend without vinyl so in an attempt to get some tunes on the stereo I have resorted to using my old but faithful Denon Tuner TU- 260Lii.

However I thought I would try listening to Digital radio via the internet through my system as a comparison - Oh dear, terrible. I quickly resorted back to FM

tp://www.techradar.com/news/car-tech/why-dab-radio-in-the-uk-is-broken-and-how-to-fix-it-1217586

I think this article explains why


Where did I say I was listening to DAB via the internet?
:doh:

[Jimbo]

:doh:

So is it FM radio on the internet?

[Barry]

FM is *apparently* now taken from the DAB feed, so should now (in the UK) always sound worse as FM modulation adds some distortion (a lower mid bloom) to the true sound. Not a bad thing, but added to the dire processing of the DAB audio feed, I now find UK FM radio almost unlistenable - and the domestic tuner of choice is an Arcam Delta 80, which used to sound superbly clear and open-toned!

Can't say I agree with you Dave. I listen to 2 - 3 hours of FM radio every day - mostly Radio 3 and 4 and usually only in the evening, via a Quad FM4 tuner and I find it far from "almost unlistenable". The relay of this year's Proms Season on R3 is superb (as always).

[Jimbo]

Can't say I agree with you Dave. I listen to 2 - 3 hours of FM radio every day - mostly Radio 3 and 4 and usually only in the evening, via a Quad FM4 tuner and I find it far from "almost unlistenable". The relay of this year's Proms Season on R3 is superb (as always).

I agree Barry, I don,t know what Dave is talking about? I was listening to a live Jazz programme via FM yesterday and it was very good indeed. I switched to Internet feed and it was thin and poor by comparison.

[Stratmangler]

FM is *apparently* now taken from the DAB feed

Is it?
They've been streaming to the transmitters in 13bit PCM since I was a lad (well in my teens at least).
It would be interesting to hear where this latest rumour comes from.

[Stratmangler]

However I thought I would try listening to Digital radio via the internet through my system as a comparison - Oh dear, terrible. I quickly resorted back to FM

How did you do this?

[Jimbo]

How did you do this?



Chris, how do you think radio is streamed on the internet?:(

[Stratmangler]

Chris, how do you think radio is streamed on the internet?:(

Well you obviously picked up the broadcast using a computer connected to the internet.
What were you playing?
How was it connected up to your system?
There's quite a bit involved to get decent results from the internet, and a number of things have nothing to do with the stream itself.

[Jimbo]

Well you obviously picked up the broadcast using a computer connected to the internet.
What were you playing?
How was it connected up to your system?
There's quite a bit involved to get decent results from the internet, and a number of things have nothing to do with the stream itself.

I was streaming Radio 3 live Jazz broadcast via DAC from Macbook Pro.

[Stratmangler]

I was streaming Radio 3 live Jazz broadcast via DAC from Macbook Pro.

That fills in a good few blanks.
USB or optical?

[Jimbo]

That fills in a good few blanks.
USB or optical?

Toslink.

Sorry I think the title of my post suggested I was using DAB but in fact I was streaming radio via the internet. I posted up that article as it does apply somewhat to all digital radio quality. I believe Radio 3 is streamed at 320 kbps.

Would like to hear it upsampled to something better. I have heard the SONY Hi rez players can do this via their DSEE technology with very good results but a pricey way to do it unless you want a Hi Rez audio player aswell?

[DSJR]

Radio 4 changes sound every so often for me and I accept the superior quality of Radio 3. Not always my taste in
music though, so I suppose my comments should be confined to Radio 2 and Radio 1.

[Stratmangler]

Since the BBC rationalised the streams earlier this year the bitrate varies depending on capabilities of your local internet provision.
I have Virgin cable broadband here, and the information I get off my Squeezebox server tells me that the BBC live streams are AAC at 339kbps. And that's on all live streams.
The listen again streams have lower bandwidth, just 128kbps, which ironically enough is what I used to get for most of the live BBC broadcast stuff before the service rationalisation. Radio3 used to give me two options, HD @320kbps, and SD @128kbps, now it's just the single 339kbps service as the rest of them.


The BBC supply apparently self adjusts at the user end, so at peak internet times it can throttle back considerably on the service, which makes sense.


What's your broadband service like?
What kind of speeds can it handle?

[Stratmangler]

Radio 4 changes sound every so often for me and I accept the superior quality of Radio 3. Not always my taste in
music though, so I suppose my comments should be confined to Radio 2 and Radio 1.

Is this FM radio or streamed or DAB?
Just for clarification.

BTW, I've just changed to Radio4 (internet stream using Squeezebox), and I'm astonished to hear that The Archers is coming at me in mono. Is this the same on FM, and if so, when did they stop broadcasting The Archers in stereo?

[DSJR]

I don't use DAB.

In the 1970's and early 80's, FM in the UK, both commercial and BBC, used to be world-class, but something went wrong as increased compression and radio-loudness-wars started up. DAB at 256 was deemed good enough, but the powers that be settled on 192, which is bad on some voices and leaves no wriggle-room for distorted source material apparently.

Good radio 3 live broadcasts aside, I really don't think 'sound quality' comes into it these days and my assertion about the compressed DAB feed being syphoned off to the FM feed came from an engineer.

DAB at it's best should sound amazing. But as usual, it's been compromised and has been outdated for some considerable time I understand. My experiences of internet radio are very positive, however and I have very positive vibes about a radio 2 show ACDC's Brian Johnson did a while ago, the iPlayer stream sounding truly excellent on both speech and the wonderful music he played.

[RichB]

We have a Yamaha mini system in the dining room I bought when DAB was still considered the future of Radio. DAB is consistently awful I find, via the FM tuner things are better but the best results I get is by plugging my phone or tablet into one of its aux inputs and streaming Internet radio that way. I just use a radio app like Tunein for any station I want.

[Barry]

Is this FM radio or streamed or DAB?
Just for clarification.

BTW, I've just changed to Radio4 (internet stream using Squeezebox), and I'm astonished to hear that The Archers is coming at me in mono. Is this the same on FM, and if so, when did they stop broadcasting The Archers in stereo?

As a life-long Archers fan (there I've said it - I've 'come out'), I can reliably inform you that on FM (which is the only broadcast medium I use) the Archers is in stereo. :)

[Stratmangler]

As a life-long Archers fan (there I've said it - I've 'come out'), I can reliably inform you that on FM (which is the only broadcast medium I use) the Archers is in stereo. :)

Oh the shame of it!
Fount Master & Moderator of AoS admits to listening to The Archers scandal :eek:

[Barry]

Oh the shame of it!
Fount Master & Moderator of AoS admits to listening to The Archers scandal :eek:

:lol: