"Squeezebox Transporter Mods"

[Audiocom AV]

As requested, here are a list of the reference upgrades for the Squeezebox Transporter.

The upgrade modifications are primarily for using the Transporter with an external DAC, although the nature of the upgrades will also improve the sound via the analogue line-outs. This does dispense with the most costly part of the Transporter, the analogue section, but even with the AKM DAC chips, discrete Jung regulators, it does not compete with the stand-alone DAC’s on the market at around £800 upwards.

These are the installed reference upgrades;

■ Cryogenically treated IEC inlet socket.
■ Bybee reference purifiers for AC input.*
■ Low noise, wide band shunt regulator for 5V supply.
■ Low noise, wide band shunt regulator for 3.3V supply.
■ OSCON SVP regulation bypass capacitors.
■ Panasonic FK digital PSU & decoupling capacitors.
■ Superclock 4 ultra-low jitter master clock.
■ Superclock 4 clock PSU.
■ WBT NextGen cu RCA phono for digital out.
■ 1x Bybee Slipstream purifier for digital out.
■ 6N OCC wire for digital out.

*New technology from Bybee which cannot be disclosed here. Please e-mail.

The cost of the upgrade is £1497.00, which added to the SB Transporter @ £1150.00 is a total spend of £2647.00.

Any questions please ask.

[SteveW]

As requested, here are a list of the reference upgrades for the Squeezebox Transporter.

The upgrade modifications are primarily for using the Transporter with an external DAC, although the nature of the upgrades will also improve the sound via the analogue line-outs. This does dispense with the most costly part of the Transporter, the analogue section, but even with the AKM DAC chips, discrete Jung regulators, it does not compete with the stand-alone DAC’s on the market at around £800 upwards.


Hi Mark
I'm trying to make sense of what you have said here...
Can you clarify...thanks

[StanleyB]

it does not compete with the stand-alone DAC’s on the market at around £800 upwards.
It does not compete against some DACs costing 1/4th of that.

[Audiocom AV]

Hi Mark
I'm trying to make sense of what you have said here...
Can you clarify...thanks

Hi Steve

The mods are made to the AC side, digital power supplies, digital regulation, digital processing stages, clock system and digital output. The upgrades are to get the most out of the Transporter via the digital output for use with an external DAC.

[Gazjam]

As requested, here are a list of the reference upgrades for the Squeezebox Transporter.

The upgrade modifications are primarily for using the Transporter with an external DAC, although the nature of the upgrades will also improve the sound via the analogue line-outs. This does dispense with the most costly part of the Transporter, the analogue section, but even with the AKM DAC chips, discrete Jung regulators, it does not compete with the stand-alone DAC’s on the market at around £800 upwards.

These are the installed reference upgrades;

■ Cryogenically treated IEC inlet socket.
■ Bybee reference purifiers for AC input.*
■ Low noise, wide band shunt regulator for 5V supply.
■ Low noise, wide band shunt regulator for 3.3V supply.
■ OSCON SVP regulation bypass capacitors.
■ Panasonic FK digital PSU & decoupling capacitors.
■ Superclock 4 ultra-low jitter master clock.
■ Superclock 4 clock PSU.
■ WBT NextGen cu RCA phono for digital out.
■ 1x Bybee Slipstream purifier for digital out.
■ 6N OCC wire for digital out.

*New technology from Bybee which cannot be disclosed here. Please e-mail.

The cost of the upgrade is £1497.00, which added to the SB Transporter @ £1150.00 is a total spend of £2647.00.

Any questions please ask.

Hi Mark,

Good luck with this, I imagine there is some rough sea ahead.
:popcorn:

[iansr]

It does not compete against some DACs costing 1/4th of that.

My 2 penneth: I heartily disagree. I had a Sugden Masterclass CDP with a TDA 1541A S2. Even in stock form I think the Transporter beats it. I might be accused of bigging it up because I have one for sale but in fact someone gave me a comittment to buy this afternoon, so no vested interest, just my opinion. And yes I've heard a Beresford DAC.

YMMV as our American cousins often say.

[Cotlake]

■ Cryogenically treated IEC inlet socket.
■ Bybee reference purifiers for AC input.*

■ 1x Bybee Slipstream purifier for digital out.

*New technology from Bybee which cannot be disclosed here. Please e-mail.


When I read this I laughed big :lol:

Ridiculous Snake Oil. Components with no scientific authentisity. It put me off immediately. Some of us here must be realists not blinkered by the bollocks of hi-fi mystism.

*New technology from Bybee which cannot be disclosed here. Please e-mail.

Is this meant to make us think something mystical and secret is happening here, only available to the favoured grail seekers? Sorry, no...........far too much bollocks again! If you value your credability, you should be ashamed!

Try again and produce something in reality.

Regards,

Greg

[Audiocom AV]

When I read this I laughed big :lol:

Ridiculous Snake Oil. Components with no scientific authentisity. It put me off immediately. Some of us here must be realists not blinkered by the bollocks of hi-fi mystism.

*New technology from Bybee which cannot be disclosed here. Please e-mail.

Is this meant to make us think something mystical and secret is happening here, only available to the favoured grail seekers? Sorry, no...........far too much bollocks again! If you value your credability, you should be ashamed!

Try again and produce something in reality.

Regards,

Greg

Greg

I have done the Bybee debate to death, no need to start fighting the corner again. Listen and learn or don't listen and don't learn.

There is new AC Bybee technology which is for OEM only and we have been allowed to use it for upgrades, and at the companies request we cannot disclose details on our website or forum.

Regarding the cryogenic processing, the DCT process is widely accepted as having very positive affects. Again, unless you have tried it don't bother to judge.

[markf]

Greg,
if your not crazy about the Bybees ,I'm sure you could get a price for the other mods only.
I don't think you have to sign up for everything on the list.

"One Transporter mod, hold the Bybees ,easy on the Cryo" is what I would ask for.

[Ali Tait]

I'd like to hear a Modwight against an Audiocom. :)

[leo]

Without trying or even understanding how something works I try not to comment too much but must admit to being a little curious here

I know the sort of results to be had with upgrading psu's and regulation, how much of an improvement do you hear using the Bybee's compared to say after upgrading regulation? is it as noticeable or is it much more subtle?

Being into modding/building stuff for my own use its something I find interesting

[Cotlake]

I tried to deal with Audiocom a few years ago and go the most appalling service ever. I've not been back since.

The Audiocom reasponse to my post says absolutely nothing. No evidence is offered to justify why they use bybee or cryo treated sockets. It remains alot of very big bollocks. Don't get sucked into their 'Snake Oil' The whole thing is a nonsence!

Mark, thanks for your suggestion but actually I'd never ever deal with Audiocom again. In my experience their customer service is rubbish.

Regards,

Greg

[Audiocom AV]

No evidence is offered to justify why they use bybee or cryo treated sockets. It remains alot of very big bollocks. Greg

Start here:
http://www.bybeetech.com/reviews.asp

[Marco]

Hi Greg,

I guess that we've had entirely different experiences then... I've been dealing with Mark for years with various things and always found him a consummate professional offering exemplary service, furthermore he *really* knows his stuff with anything digital.

The Bybees may seem like 'snake oil' (I thought that too!), until I tried just one in a critical part of the circuit of my DAC... The difference was quite frankly stunning considering it was just a tiny little filter.

You know that Sony DAC that I used to take to Owston and it usually always outperformed the DACs guys like Nick G had built, amongst others, (in fact, it won the DAC 'shoot out' at the first Owston I attended where I think you were present). Well..... The reason it sounded so good was because of Mark's modifications!! ;)

Mark,

Thanks very much for the info on the Transporter. I suspect that's the route I'll go down when I'm in the market for a high-end music server.

I'll give you a ring next week sometime for a chat. Ian and I would like to come down (as we discussed before), so we can thrash out the details :cool:

Marco.

[NRG]

When I read this I laughed big :lol:

Ridiculous Snake Oil. Components with no scientific authentisity. It put me off immediately. Some of us here must be realists not blinkered by the bollocks of hi-fi mystism.

*New technology from Bybee which cannot be disclosed here. Please e-mail.

Is this meant to make us think something mystical and secret is happening here, only available to the favoured grail seekers? Sorry, no...........far too much bollocks again! If you value your credability, you should be ashamed!

Try again and produce something in reality.

Regards,

Greg

I'm with you Greg, Cryo treated IEC inlet socket....!!?? :doh: :steam: :mental: What a **** ** *******!

[Marco]

Can't speak for the Cryo-treated IEC inlet sockets (LOL :eyebrows:), but don't knock the Bybees!

And like I said, in my experience, Mark makes some of the best digital gear I've ever heard, so the results speak for themselves, 'Cryo-treated IEC inlet sockets' or not...

Marco.

[StanleyB]

The bybee technology may well be useful when transporting digital signals to some DACs, but of no use in systems where the digital signal fed to the DAC chip is a clocked version of the original. So if you select your external DAC carefully, you can say bye bye to bybee.

[Marco]

Hi Stan,

Everything is relative, I guess. It's all about application and implementation. I'm a great believer in analysing things as a system rather than focussing on the merits or otherwise of individual components.

Experience tells me Mark's overall digital 'systems' work brilliantly.

Yours, of course, are none too shabby either! ;)

Right, I'm off to the Whittlebury Hall show, so you guys play nice now... :)

Laters,
Marco.

[Audiocom AV]

Can't speak for the Cryo-treated IEC inlet sockets (LOL :eyebrows:), but don't knock the Bybees!

And like I said, in my experience, Mark makes some of the best digital gear I've ever heard, so the results speak for themselves, 'Cryo-treated IEC inlet sockets' or not...

Marco.

Hi Marco

To install the Bybee in the Transporter we cannot use the original manufacturers IEC inlet because it is a PCB mount type. We had a batch of IEC inlets cryogenically treated together with other AC parts, actually FURUTECH have been using the process for years.

[Audiocom AV]

I know the sort of results to be had with upgrading psu's and regulation, how much of an improvement do you hear using the Bybee's compared to say after upgrading regulation? is it as noticeable or is it much more subtle?


Hi Leo

The improvements with Bybee purifiers can be equal to that of upgrading regulated power supplies, but these improvements differ on what influence they have on the music. They are best applied to the transformer secondaries, although the combination of also using them on the AC input brings greater gains.

[Cotlake]

Hi Marco,

Thanks for your response to my out burst. The trouble is I don't buy your arguement. I've always been a bit suspicious of your ears. The trouble with your personal situation is that you are completely dependent on others to modify or upgrade your kit. That of course includes quality scratch builds such as your amp. Therefore you are always vulnerable to the influence the trader would seek to bring upon you. You should get wise in this situation. Your trade connections will not generally deliberately intend to pull the wool over your eyes, but they will be entrenched in their own belief that what they offer you is best. In contrast, I'm totally confident in the ears of someone like NRG because he does it all for himself and furthermore, we've held numerous listening sessions where our individual opinions seem to correspond. In consequence, I know if Neal thinks it's right, there is a significant likelyhood I will also.

I don't doubt that Audiocom produce some good stuff. I had a really bad ordering experience with them before, hense my negative views to be associated with my scepticism over this product. I won't buy into Bybee technology (as it's apparently a mystic secret) or cryo'd sockets. It's Snake Oil coupled to auto-suggestion readily used by the trader. The trader themselves will be oblivious to this and not recognise it. They are too engulfed in their business practice and are blinkered to the truth. I don't blame them for that. After all, they are sellers of Hi-Fi.

I appear to have challenged your credibility here. Will I get banned?

Regards,

Greg

[Marco]

Hi Greg,


Thanks for your response to my out burst.


LOL - I'm glad you seen it as an "out burst", too!


The trouble is I don't buy your arguement. I've always been a bit suspicious of your ears. The trouble with your personal situation is that you are completely dependent on others to modify or upgrade your kit. That of course includes quality scratch builds such as your amp. Therefore you are always vulnerable to the influence the trader would seek to bring upon you.


Well, you're entitled to your opinion. No doubt, no matter what I say it won't change your mind, and that's fine. Nevertheless, I can assure you the only thing that influences me these days is what my ears tell me. I'm sorry, but people who know me well would laugh at your assertion. Therefore, perhaps one day if you find yourself in my neck of the woods you could pop round and get to know both me and what my system is about rather better than you do now ;)

You would be most welcome.


You should get wise in this situation. Your trade connections will not generally deliberately intend to pull the wool over your eyes...


I'm sorry, but you're way off-beam there - perish the thought! :lol:

Maybe that was the case in the ‘bad old days’, but most definitely not now. Like I said, if that's what you think then you really don't know me at all.


In contrast, I'm totally confident in the ears of someone like NRG because he does it all for himself and furthermore, we've held numerous listening sessions where our individual opinions seem to correspond. In consequence, I know if Neal thinks it's right, there is a significant likelyhood I will also.


I'm not necessarily disagreeing with Neal (who incidentally is someone whose opinion I respect). I haven't heard the effect of cryo-treated IEC sockets, which I believe was his main bone of contention in reference to Mark's ‘advertorial’, so I've got no idea what effect they have or not. However, what I will never do is prejudge anything, no matter how seemingly 'ridiculous' it is without first having listened myself. I remain open-minded at all to times to all possibilities with hi-fi.

With regard to Neal, as I say I do respect his opinion, having heard some of his kit a few times at Owston, especially at the last one where both the PL-71 and SP10 he brought sounded fabulous. However, I'd like to think that the feeling was mutual, as I'm sure he would agree that my modified SL-1210 sounded none too shabby compared to either, or even Will's superb Garrard 401...

I may not build my own kit, Greg, but I use the Owston fests to test my gear against some of the best D.I.Y builds one can find. The very fact that this time, all the kit I brought with me (T/T, preamp/phonostage) matched the performance of what was there should prove that I know what I'm doing to achieve a good sound. Nick G commented this time that everyone's kit (mine included) sounded remarkably similar - just different 'flavours' rather than anything being intrinsically superior.

The fact is my Audiocom-modified Sony DAC was always one of the top performers everytime I brought it with me. Likewise, I'm confident that had I brought my Copper amp or Tannoys to the last meeting, they'd also have more than held their own with the excellent designs produced from scratch by the D.I.Y-ers :)


I don't doubt that Audiocom produce some good stuff. I had a really bad ordering experience with them before, hense my negative views to be associated with my scepticism over this product.


Well, like I said, I can't comment on that as I know nothing about it. All I can say is that all the dealings I've had with Mark have been first-class, and I can also say the same for a few of my friends who've bought his products.


I won't buy into Bybee technology (as it's apparently a mystic secret) or cryo'd sockets. It's Snake Oil coupled to auto-suggestion readily used by the trader. The trader themselves will be oblivious to this and not recognise it. They are too engulfed in their business practice and are blinkered to the truth. I don't blame them for that. After all, they are sellers of Hi-Fi.


That's your decision. As far as I'm concerned the only "truth" is what your ears tell you, and I've heard enough of the 'Bybee effect' in my own system to be convinced of its efficacy.


I appear to have challenged your credibility here. Will I get banned?


Oh yes and with immediate effect, my boy. March tout-suite to the headmaster's office for 20 strokes of the cane! :lolsign:

Marco.

[Audiocom AV]

I won't buy into Bybee technology (as it's apparently a mystic secret) or cryo'd sockets. It's Snake Oil coupled to auto-suggestion readily used by the trader. The trader themselves will be oblivious to this and not recognise it. They are too engulfed in their business practice and are blinkered to the truth. I don't blame them for that. After all, they are sellers of Hi-Fi.

Greg

Greg

The details of the Bybee are not so mystic. The Purifier uses a combination of rare earth metal oxides in a ceramic form to absorb and dampen 1/f noise. The ceramic surrounds a low-value resistance (about 0.1 ohm).

The power of auto-suggestion is a strong argument. I personally was not satisfied to accept that bybee Technology worked because the next upgrade company, or DIYER had used it. After several lengthy and non committal trials with the Bybee product I concluded that not only do these products work, but they are quite remarkable, and would enable my company to markedly improve the performance gains in upgrade modifications.

[Tony Moore]

Group buy anyone? (Bybee that is) Get one (or whatever is needed for a trial) and each try it out and then send on to the next group member? Compare results at the end?

Is it practical? :scratch:

Cheers,
Tony
ps. After having looked at some of the write-up on the Bybee website I have to say it all sounds just a bit far-fetched! Contamination residue anyone? Speeded up electrons? Hmmm. Still, I'd slap a fiver down to try it out, just to be open minded. That would mean a large group buy though...

(Sorry for the potential thread drift!)

[Audiocom AV]

Group buy anyone? (Bybee that is) Get one (or whatever is needed for a trial) and each try it out and then send on to the next group member? Compare results at the end?

Is it practical? :scratch:

Cheers,
Tony

Hi Tony

Bybee products like the Large & Slipstream purifiers are for internal upgrades and would not be practical for group members to try and pass on.

However, the *new* RCA Interconnect Bullets would be. We currently only have one pair but will be ordering more in the near future. This product is aimed at Turntables and to be used at the RCA output phono plugs before the phono stage or amplifier input. I have used them on a DAC and CD player interconnect output with very good results.

I could get a pair, burn them in and then run a group trial?

[Covenant]

Personally I like to keep an open mind and like to think the majority of people on AOS dont have too blinkered a view just because there isnt a piece of authenticated research to back up a manufacturers claim.
I would welcome the chance to try the bullets on a digital output if they were made available for a group trial.
Love to hear from anyone who has had their Squeezebox modified by Audiocom.
Its all about what your ears tell you.

[Alex_UK]

In any other business, some of the so called "snake oil" would be called "marketing" - ok, maybe "marketing hyperbole", but "bigging up" the technology is by no means confined to the audio industry! I have no personal experience of Audiocom, so can't comment, but then I would also have thought sticking a bit of cork under a record was approaching shamanism...

[Audiocom AV]

Mark,

Thanks very much for the info on the Transporter. I suspect that's the route I'll go down when I'm in the market for a high-end music server.



Marco

I suggest you try a Squeezebox Duet or the classic to hear what potential these streaming players have when connected to the DAS-R1. The sound is rough around the edges and will not match your 777 as transport, but you will then be able to put some sort of guage on performance before considering the Transporter.

The SB Classic or Duet can be taken to great heights with a dedicated power supply like the Paul Hynes SR1, and the PaceCar reclocker from Empirical Audio; http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/pace-car-reclocker

[Marco]

Hi Mark,


I suggest you try a Squeezebox Duet or the classic to hear what potential these streaming players have when connected to the DAS-R1.


I've heard what those things do, albeit not connected up to my DAS-R1... I suspect though that when the time comes for me to go the streaming route I'll just bite the bullet and buy one of your modded SD Transporters - apart from anything else, I love the illuminated VU meters!! :eyebrows:

Incidentally, you mentioned that you preferred the modded Transporter to the (truly awesome) Sony R1 transport, which is really what's piqued my interest in the former... So how would you define/sum-up the difference in their respective sonic characteristics and subsequent music presentation?

Marco.

[Ian Walker]

Marco...just stop being a dafteee(3'eees) and get yourself a PS3:)

[Marco]

Hehe... I don't need a disc player, though, and I ain't that interested in movies.

Have you got yours connected up yet, ya dafteeeeee (six Es, 'cos you deserve it) :lolsign:

Marco.

[Audiocom AV]

Incidentally, you mentioned that you preferred the modded Transporter to the (truly awesome) Sony R1 transport, which is really what's piqued my interest in the former... So how would you define/sum-up the difference in their respective sonic characteristics and subsequent music presentation?

Marco.

Hello Marco

When I first started out with the stock Transporter there was a high novelty factor, the concept was interesting and sound was very good but not a match for the Sony CDP-R1. What I found was that the Transporter could still sound quite grainy, it had a digital edginess, slightly washed out sound and lacked solidity and focus.

To start with I addressed weaknesses in the digital power supplies & regulation. The Bybee on the AC input, Bybee of digital out removed a large amount of the graininess, edginess while opening the sound more, allowing you to hear more detail. The two main regulated supplies were replaced with Shunt regulators; this was another step forward in removing traces of digital edginess, improving clarity and separation. After a week of burning-in I felt that the Transporter was now getting very close to the CDP-R1, in fact depending on the music & recording both sources would be better suited to different recordings. Next the clock was replaced and a dedicated PSU added. The Transporter’s sound now had greater depth, solidity, improved sound-staging, tonally more natural sounding. Lastly the Bybee large purifiers were replaced with the new AC devices, these use technology taken from SE speaker Bullets. The improvements here were quite spectacular. What I heard is a sound that is more articulate, intelligible, believable. Instruments have a cleaner, crisper sound, and where there is a mix of instruments the individual sounds are more discernable.

Now after another week or so burning-in, I felt that the Transporter had overtaken the CDP-R1 is almost every area, particularly in terms of PrAT. Going back to the CDP-R1 after listening the Transporter, the R1 sounded ‘dulled’, slowed and lacking get up and go. Knowing the sound of the R1 so well, it could not dig as much out of the mix and glossed over certain aspects of the sound. The R1 was also modified, Bybee, Black Gate N/NX, so it had a head start. The gap between the modified Transporter and stock R1 would be greater again! All the listening to the Transporter was done wirelessly using a HP Laptop, WAV files of the same CD’s ripped with EAC.

Best Wishes
Mark

[Marco]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for that - sounds very intriguing! :)

I don't doubt your observations because I've heard similar things when comparing even the best transports/CDPs to a 'well-sorted' streaming device through a high quality DAC.

My own (highly capable) modified Sony X777ES, for example, playing CD in some ways couldn't compete with the 'naturalness' of the same music streamed in lossless FLAC format through Ian's Helios media player, using the same system, when connected to his modified DAS-R1.

Basically, IMO, what it comes down to is that CDPs/transports add an artifice to the sound due to the mechanical processes involved in their use (and all the associated circuitry) of the laser reading the information on the disc and the subsequent unavoidable varying degree of data error introduced when even the very best transport mechanisms are employed. Quite simply, the harder the error correction circuitry has to work, the more of an artifice is imposed on the sound, and thus in turn adversely affecting the player's presentation of music.

If one can remove all those mechanical interfaces which induce error and simplify the signal path, but ensure that the integrity of the signal remains intact and as unaffected as possible, thus supplying a 'super-clean' signal to the DAC, then this process is unquestionably better and should produce a more accurate transfer of the source music information. It is for those reasons that streaming through a high quality music server, and then processing the signal through a high quality DAC, is in my view undoubtedly the way to go.

Therefore, my plan is to retain the X777ES CDP/transport for disc spinning duties (it is after all a first-class device for that purpose) and stream music through one of your modded SD Transporters, and then into the modified DAS-R1. I'm confident that this will provide me with a top-notch digital front end which could seriously challenge my modified SL-1210 T/T, particularly as my DAS-R1 is by no means yet a 'finished article' ;)

This will definitely be some fun and games for sometime next year, either before or after I embark on my SP10 T/T project (I'll need to decide), so I'll be in touch! :cool:

Marco.