View Full Version : Recommend Me A Very High Power Amplifier
Bored, I was thinking about a solid state very high power amplifier to drive the Apogees with as an alternative to my current thermionic setup.
Am looking for something that might beat a Parasound A21 which I used to feed with an EAR868PL. The EAR has long since gone, but the Parasound and EAR together produced some stunning sounds.
The power amp or amps will be fed by a tube preamp via RCA connectors.
Greater than 400 Watts into 4 Ohms is what I am after.
Just sling me some ideas... even though I promised myself I would no upgrade for a while. I'm justifying it as a side-grade:D That is, if I see something worth taking a punt on.
Monos or stereo but please power amps only.
I probably will not keep any solid state amp long term... so it'll be a 2nd hand buy with the view to letting it go after a while.
The Parasound could quite literally astonish with drive capability and dynamics. Similar capability in another contender would be what I am after I think.
Budget no more than £2-3K 2nd hand. Preferably a lot less.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/hypex_dlcp_n400_e.html (reviewed with Maggies) 600W into 2 Ohms.
http://www.hypex.nl/product/2012-11-23-13-41-35/nc400.html
I tried a Hypex nc400 amp - but with a linear PS and JFET input stage. Sounded fab TBH right up there with the best SS amps I have tried with the speakers. The maker of said amps says if it has an SMPS module don't bother. I haven't verified that though personally.
Colin151
19-08-2015, 20:15
What is the Apogee's load exactly? 4 ohms pretty straight or does it go quite a bit lower? Which Apogees?
Apogees as I remember, 'featured' hideously low impedance loads - down to 2 ohms or less over much of the range - and so this will rule out 95% of all domestic amps IMO!
OK, BORING, but you need to look at Krell first, as these were designed for these sort of loads, and in conjunction with ARC preamps, became a sort of US equivalent to Linn and Naim for a few years in the 80's and 90's. A good friend and one-time colleague had some Duetta Signatures with a KSA80 for years and it was wonderful - he's now got huge Martin Logan's and a D'Agostino integrated... I once sold a Krell FPB300 and it was awesome, but the FPB 400 may well be around your budget now. KSA80's go for £1500 or so and sound really good into all sorts of speakers. Older Krells run VERY hot, so big service bills aren't uncommon - the KSA 'S' series onwards
Classic large Levinson (pre bling) should be looked at too. I can't remember the models, but the early 90's black boxes were superb and judged better than many Krells of the period 'by those that know' (I don't!). Into some power hungry Maggies, I was able to compare the smaller stereo black box to the larger one (ML28 preamp) and the bigger one allowed far more scale and image size in all planes.
Looking at pro amps for a minute, lots of power houses there, but I have little idea as to how they'd drive an Apogee style load..
Speakers are custom built spec'd by me Duetta like jobbies (much better made than the originals). A constant 4 Ohms and an 80 Watt tube amp drives them better than any solid state so far... but that is not to say SS amps don't have different but really interesting results with them.
Tried a Krell KSA50 which drove them well but sounded flat as a Witch's Tit (owner's remark) but that was with a passive pre. A KSA300 was good with Calipers. A KAV250a was good but not excellent with Duettas. Not really looking at Krells.
John Curl (Mark Levinson designer) did the Parasound A21 so an ML amp may well hit the spot,
Crown XLS1500 (pro amp) nothing special but good - excellent for the money.
cyclopse
19-08-2015, 21:26
Krell and Apogee are two names that have been matched together for decades. Always wanted to hear MRA. Other suggestions could include Pass Labs and possibly Gamut monos. It will be Autumn soon so valve heat will be more manageable.
Regards
Stephen
Ok, I get ya :lol:
My own KSA 50S is very bland when first powered, but does become acceptable after a couple of hours. I was intimidated by it at first (it's a gift), but now I'm getting the measure of it I'm not so in awe of it now (even gets to old industry pro's like me :eek: and I once sold the Ab Sounds portfolio!). The original one could sound 'cloudy' I found, but preamps used domestically in the Top End have come on hugely since then.
I've only ever heard one large Parasound amp and it was very good indeed. I think they were regarded as 'AV' so ignored by the snooty two-channel brigade. Others have spoken highly of other models, so well worth trying to find one :)
I think the Crown XLS models would be amazing for speakers like passive ATC's and maybe NS1000's, which NEED loads of power to make 'em dance to the music's tune IMO. My mate's Duetta Signatures in the years they worked properly were incredibly 'open' to what they were fed with and if yours are better made than this (and hopefully longer lasting than a mere ten years), then do look out for an early big ML amp. Hifi Dave may be able to advise on models to look out for, as the more bling they acquired, the less exalted they became, even if they became more 'commercial' as a result.
Good luck - and please report your findings, as well as other recommendations..
P.S. Don't laugh, but what about the current big Quad mono's? The 606 onwards were perfectly happy with 4 ohm loads and the basic design has been refined considerably since then I think.
StanleyB
19-08-2015, 21:33
My dream power amp is the Harman Kardon Citation XX . http://www.thevintageknob.org/harman_kardon-Citation_XX.html
Anything else just won't hack it. And that includes Krell.
My dream power amp is the Harman Kardon Citation XX . http://www.thevintageknob.org/harman_kardon-Citation_XX.html
Anything else just won't hack it. And that includes Krell.
Dead cool. 1978 though will probably need attention IF you could find one. Are there really many around Stan?
Ok, I get ya :lol:
My own KSA 50S is very bland when first powered, but does become acceptable after a couple of hours. I was intimidated by it at first (it's a gift), but now I'm getting the measure of it I'm not so in awe of it now (even gets to old industry pro's like me :eek: and I once sold the Ab Sounds portfolio!). The original one could sound 'cloudy' I found, but preamps used domestically in the Top End have come on hugely since then.
I've only ever heard one large Parasound amp and it was very good indeed. I think they were regarded as 'AV' so ignored by the snooty two-channel brigade. Others have spoken highly of other models, so well worth trying to find one :)
I think the Crown XLS models would be amazing for speakers like passive ATC's and maybe NS1000's, which NEED loads of power to make 'em dance to the music's tune IMO. My mate's Duetta Signatures in the years they worked properly were incredibly 'open' to what they were fed with and if yours are better made than this (and hopefully longer lasting than a mere ten years), then do look out for an early big ML amp. Hifi Dave may be able to advise on models to look out for, as the more bling they acquired, the less exalted they became, even if they became more 'commercial' as a result.
Good luck - and please report your findings, as well as other recommendations..
P.S. Don't laugh, but what about the current big Quad mono's? The 606 onwards were perfectly happy with 4 ohm loads and the basic design has been refined considerably since then I think.
The Parasound JC1 monos are probably awesome but huge space occupiers. The A21 loved the EAR pre.
Quads? Hm.. looking for something a bit less mainstream. You might be right though could sound OK. Really think a huge current dumper would be more interesting though.
Back on pro amps Behringer A500 was cheap and a bit tiring but really for the money i.e. nothing really pretty amazing. More dynamic than the Crown, less ear friendly in terms of actual listenability.
10 years is about right for a lot of planars before they need attention. Martin Logans are worse than Apogees for that. I know I used them for 17 years!
StanleyB
19-08-2015, 21:50
Dead cool. 1978 though will probably need attention IF you could find one. Are there really many around Stan?
They don't need attention. Built with the best components and gold plated PCB. People that bought one of them would have forked out good money. Not many about though. They were built to order.
walpurgis
19-08-2015, 21:52
My dream power amp is the Harman Kardon Citation XX .
Anything else just won't hack it. And that includes Krell.
Oh. I don't know Stan. I'd probably settle for one of these;
http://i61.tinypic.com/zjt6qo.jpg
Luxman M-05
They don't need attention. Built with the best components and gold plated PCB. People that bought one of them would have forked out good money. Not many about though. They were built to order.
Most interesting suggestion so far.
Something rare and esoteric is always more appealing than the usual suspects.
Oh. I don't know Stan. I'd probably settle for one of these;
http://i61.tinypic.com/zjt6qo.jpg
Luxman M-05
Thought about buying one quite seriously for a while. Was one on ebay de for a long time at a stupid high price. I've got an L-435 but it isn't great on the Duettas. A lesser model though.
Found 5 expired Citation XX ads using HiFi Shark. Looks like they crop up in Japan but don't sell - prices look too low on the expired auctions.
Sansui BA-5000 or an McIntosh MC-500
http://theartofsound.net/forum/webkit-fake-url://247ff385-953a-4ee3-8bf0-0f93223ef9b9/imagejpeg
trio leo
19-08-2015, 23:15
IMHO there isn't a speaker on the market that a pair of Albarry M1108 Series 2 Mono-blocs can't drive, effortlessly. about 180 Watts into 4 Ohms, but it's how they do it that counts.
Well worth a listen.
my 2 penneth. :)
Cheers Al
walpurgis
19-08-2015, 23:22
I used to say the same thing about my Legend P300 power amp. Bet not many of you have seen one. Never did find speakers It couldn't handle.
an integrated but my old MF A1000 could drive most things I would guess, bar monsters. All class A and sounded lovely; kept the house warm too
daytona600
20-08-2015, 07:09
This will drive any speaker Ever built
Lifetime Warranty Made in the USA
500wpc @ 8ohms
900wpc @ 4ohms
1600wpc @ 2ohms
7000wpc @ 0.3ohms
Stable into 1/3rd of a Ohm Loads to Drive Any Speaker
MAGTECH is a power amplfier designed specifically to drive electrostatic speakers and other very difficult Loads including Planar & conventional magnetic speakers
if you need even more power they do monoblocks @ 1600wpc @ 8ohms
http://snvinyl.co.uk/WebRoot/Daily/Shops/eshop943300/53B5/3FDF/244D/5B75/AF2D/0A0C/05E0/5FFE/ampblackfrontangle.jpgThis powerful amplifier (500W into 8 ohms, 900W into 4 ohms) is the most consistent amplifier I have ever heard. Regardless of the load it performs equally well at all frequencies and never shows strain. At the same time its transparency and low noise floor allow it to fully reflect the character of upstream components and subtle nuances and harmonics. To accomplish that, Roger Sanders developed (patent pending) a voltage regulated power supply that maintains a stable voltage regardless of load or reasonable changes in the line voltage. This enables the maintenance of stable bias and unchanged distortion levels. In addition to outstanding audio performance, Roger Sanders stands behind his products (both amplifiers and loudspeakers) from the factory in Conifer, Colorado. Sanders products carry a lifetime warranty - TAS Review
I have reviewed many high-end products of all stripes over the years, with many claiming all kinds of bullshit innovations. But the Magtech is the real deal, a truly astonishing device. Sanders has hit one out of the sonic park with this bad boy.
According to Roger’s white paper, “In the Magtech's voltage regulator, you will not find any waste heat. It will pass virtually all of the watts put into it on to the amplifiers.“ This translates into a rated power of 500W/Ch into 8 ohms, and 900W/Ch into 4 ohms.
In truth, you could probably plug it straight into Hoover dam’s main power outlet and frigid tons of megawatts would come gushing through. And unlike other amplifiers, the distortion in the Magtech amplifier is virtually unchanged regardless of power level. The bias is stable regardless of load.
But what’s really incredible about the Magtech is its clarity of sound. Not like transistors, not like tubes, but something altogether different.
And when you hear it, you go, yeah, that’s absolutely right.
jandl100
20-08-2015, 07:26
Touted and highly rated elsewhere on AOS is the big Nak AV power amp. 150wpc.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?38783-A-visit-to-Halfway-Tree
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?25422-PetRat-HiFi/page7
http://stylco-electronics.myshopify.com/collections/nakamichi
£600 now, brand noo. So you'd be looking at a couple 100£ loss if/when you move it on.
Just hook up four of the six channels. :)
Have to confess I've been vaguely wondering about a big(ger) amp ... my 130wpc Restek seems to do the job, but morer is betterer, right? :D
If the Nak was still at £400 I'd probably get one.
I tried one of those Sanders Magtech amps a few years back (see previous post), but a bit too much of a smoothie for my tastes.
awkwardbydesign
20-08-2015, 08:01
Is something like this any use? http://www.hifi-forsale.co.uk/moreinfo.php?prod_title=Mark_Levinson_No.332&p=power_amplifier&prod_id=28590&offset=
jandl100
20-08-2015, 08:14
or this 200wpc Vincent for £1k http://www.hifi-forsale.co.uk/moreinfo.php?prod_title=Vincent_SV-238&p=integrated_amplifier&prod_id=28320&offset=
It is an integrated, though.
What about the NAD 208?
From memory it had not just the current but loads if power at two ohms.
Edit
http://nadelectronics.com/download.php?100603160536-NAD_208THX.pdf|Data%20Sheet%20-%20208THX%20Stereo%20Power%20Amplifier
Neil McCauley
20-08-2015, 14:05
Apogees as I remember, 'featured' hideously low impedance loads - down to 2 ohms or less over much of the range - and so this will rule out 95% of all domestic amps IMO!
OK, BORING, but you need to look at Krell first, as these were designed for these sort of loads, and in conjunction with ARC preamps, became a sort of US equivalent to Linn and Naim for a few years in the 80's and 90's. A good friend and one-time colleague had some Duetta Signatures with a KSA80 for years and it was wonderful - he's now got huge Martin Logan's and a D'Agostino integrated... I once sold a Krell FPB300 and it was awesome, but the FPB 400 may well be around your budget now. KSA80's go for £1500 or so and sound really good into all sorts of speakers. Older Krells run VERY hot, so big service bills aren't uncommon - the KSA 'S' series onwards
Classic large Levinson (pre bling) should be looked at too. I can't remember the models, but the early 90's black boxes were superb and judged better than many Krells of the period 'by those that know' (I don't!). Into some power hungry Maggies, I was able to compare the smaller stereo black box to the larger one (ML28 preamp) and the bigger one allowed far more scale and image size in all planes.
Looking at pro amps for a minute, lots of power houses there, but I have little idea as to how they'd drive an Apogee style load..
My Apogee Scintillas used, as above, Krell KSA 80 units with success into what I was told was a 1.7 ohm load. Sometimes 4 x KMA monoblocks. Have you considered bridged Crown DC300a units? Allegedly, short of outright vandalism, indestructible.
To be fair to my Krell ksa50 that I remarked sounded "flat as a witches tit" it is now sounding much better after a thorough service but is still a little dark sounding. I own Apogee calliper signatures so have a reasonable understanding of what works.
The instant reaction to apogee a is that they are a fearsome load, not so in the later signature editions that are 4 ohm nominal and drop to 3.2 ohm. Far easier than the early stuff which was 1-2 ohm and only a Krell would drive them.
Now Justin does like loud and a fair bit of hard fast bass from dance music so his quest I suspect is more about bass control and headroom for dynamics.
My thoughts are that you really need to go active to get better control of the bass ribbons and benefit from the better efficiency from the mid/treble ribbon.
jandl100
21-08-2015, 05:46
My Krell KSA50 mk1 was a bit flat and lifeless, too. And that had been recently serviced. I think it's just the nature of the beast. A tad on the Pipe&Slippers side of life - some folks will love what it does, others will demur.
And based on my observations of hearing a range of amplifiers with Justin's 4 ohm Apogees, past and present - they are still a bit of a bastard to drive!
That KSA50 sounded great plugged into the M&Ds with the ARC LS26 preamp I seem to remember.
Anyway too busy to comment will do over the w/e.
The Black Adder
21-08-2015, 07:39
I'd recommend Chord. Superb amps with plenty of guts.
Beobloke
22-08-2015, 02:35
Sorry chaps, the OP said 'high power' so why all these weedy recommendations with power outputs in the hundreds of watts?!
Is go straight for a pair of Analog Domain Apollo mono blocks with a nice, meaty 8000W into 4 Ohms. I've heard them and they are stunning.
If that's not enough, how about a pair of Lab Gruppen PLM20000q units - 10,000 W per channel...
These look freaking tempting for the money... http://www.ghentaudio.com/amp/ga-m500p.html
Found this on the Vincent 991 amps deep down in the Apogee forum from 11 years back. What is said about driving the Scintilla made me smile:) http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/oldforum/003541.html
Chord amps? No. Why? Whenever I go into their dem rooms at shows, and I have done so many, many times, the rooms always sound dire. Never heard a good one yet.
To be fair to my Krell ksa50 that I remarked sounded "flat as a witches tit" it is now sounding much better after a thorough service but is still a little dark sounding. I own Apogee calliper signatures so have a reasonable understanding of what works.
The instant reaction to apogee a is that they are a fearsome load, not so in the later signature editions that are 4 ohm nominal and drop to 3.2 ohm. Far easier than the early stuff which was 1-2 ohm and only a Krell would drive them.
Now Justin does like loud and a fair bit of hard fast bass from dance music so his quest I suspect is more about bass control and headroom for dynamics.
My thoughts are that you really need to go active to get better control of the bass ribbons and benefit from the better efficiency from the mid/treble ribbon.
No the 211s DO put out ENOUGH power IMHO. They just don't drive the speaker like an A21 can. The A21 did NOT survive and overall I prefer the 211s over any amp yet tried.
But the A21 was out of this world in terms of drive/volume capability and sheer control. Once witnessed very hard to forget. Jerry's fave on the Apogees so far and I empathise a lot with that view.
I'm just looking for a toy to play with for a while - displacing the 211s has proved impossible for any candidate so far.
Quite like the 4 channel Nak idea Jerry.
This will drive any speaker Ever built
Lifetime Warranty Made in the USA
500wpc @ 8ohms
900wpc @ 4ohms
1600wpc @ 2ohms
7000wpc @ 0.3ohms
Stable into 1/3rd of a Ohm Loads to Drive Any Speaker
MAGTECH is a power amplfier designed specifically to drive electrostatic speakers and other very difficult Loads including Planar & conventional magnetic speakers
if you need even more power they do monoblocks @ 1600wpc @ 8ohms
http://snvinyl.co.uk/WebRoot/Daily/Shops/eshop943300/53B5/3FDF/244D/5B75/AF2D/0A0C/05E0/5FFE/ampblackfrontangle.jpgThis powerful amplifier (500W into 8 ohms, 900W into 4 ohms) is the most consistent amplifier I have ever heard. Regardless of the load it performs equally well at all frequencies and never shows strain. At the same time its transparency and low noise floor allow it to fully reflect the character of upstream components and subtle nuances and harmonics. To accomplish that, Roger Sanders developed (patent pending) a voltage regulated power supply that maintains a stable voltage regardless of load or reasonable changes in the line voltage. This enables the maintenance of stable bias and unchanged distortion levels. In addition to outstanding audio performance, Roger Sanders stands behind his products (both amplifiers and loudspeakers) from the factory in Conifer, Colorado. Sanders products carry a lifetime warranty - TAS Review
I have reviewed many high-end products of all stripes over the years, with many claiming all kinds of bullshit innovations. But the Magtech is the real deal, a truly astonishing device. Sanders has hit one out of the sonic park with this bad boy.
According to Roger’s white paper, “In the Magtech's voltage regulator, you will not find any waste heat. It will pass virtually all of the watts put into it on to the amplifiers.“ This translates into a rated power of 500W/Ch into 8 ohms, and 900W/Ch into 4 ohms.
In truth, you could probably plug it straight into Hoover dam’s main power outlet and frigid tons of megawatts would come gushing through. And unlike other amplifiers, the distortion in the Magtech amplifier is virtually unchanged regardless of power level. The bias is stable regardless of load.
But what’s really incredible about the Magtech is its clarity of sound. Not like transistors, not like tubes, but something altogether different.
And when you hear it, you go, yeah, that’s absolutely right.
Yeah quite popular with Martin Logan owners stateside. One owner seems to prefer a Conrad Johnson valve amp on the panels though. For whatever reason I just don't feel I want to try one. Thanks good recommendation though.
Sansui BA-5000 or an McIntosh MC-500
http://theartofsound.net/forum/webkit-fake-url://247ff385-953a-4ee3-8bf0-0f93223ef9b9/imagejpeg
That Sansui looks awesome.
walpurgis
22-08-2015, 16:42
Sorry chaps, the OP said 'high power' so why all these weedy recommendations with power outputs in the hundreds of watts?!
Is go straight for a pair of Analog Domain Apollo mono blocks with a nice, meaty 8000W into 4 Ohms. I've heard them and they are stunning.
If that's not enough, how about a pair of Lab Gruppen PLM20000q units - 10,000 W per channel...
Will they be OK with my Lowther Acoustas? :)
Will they be OK with my Lowther Acoustas? :)
Yes.
Forget power to weight ratio. Power to efficiency ratio is where it is at.:doh::mental::lol:
Arkless Electronics
22-08-2015, 17:38
I used to say the same thing about my Legend P300 power amp. Bet not many of you have seen one. Never did find speakers It couldn't handle.
I remember it well.... I believe I have original brochures for it and the pre somewhere!
Arkless Electronics
22-08-2015, 17:44
That Sansui looks awesome.
If it's anything like it's smaller sibling in the range at that time then it will sound awful! A friend had one and it was really horrible in terms of SQ.
If it's anything like it's smaller sibling in the range at that time then it will sound awful! A friend had one and it was really horrible in terms of SQ.
Probably right. I had a Sansui TU-9900 tuner. Technically very good. Sonics? Nah.
If it's anything like it's smaller sibling in the range at that time then it will sound awful! A friend had one and it was really horrible in terms of SQ.
Yawn, The monolith that was Sansui would have been quaking in light of such an authoritative critique back in the day, Of course, we're he a gambling man, he could always enguage you to build him something so much better!
What do you propose, Mr Arkless?
daytona600
23-08-2015, 10:37
Yes.
Forget power to weight ratio. Power to efficiency ratio is where it is at.:doh::mental::lol:
almost 100% the run stone cold at full output & have no cooling fans
http://sanderssoundsystems.com/technical-white-papers/161-the-magtech-regulated-power-supply-wp
One Hypex NC1200 with Hypex SMPS next to one 211 mono chez moi. Good for 700 Watts into 4 Ohms. Balanced input only was fed via an Audio Note M8.
I'm not saying anything as a review will appear soon on the Wam's review section. So if interested check it out.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VFYdT_PTMNs6IREN1OrYdU594FVFhdpXtUa0tTN_YPg=w1065-h599-no
jandl100
24-08-2015, 19:57
No the 211s DO put out ENOUGH power IMHO. They just don't drive the speaker like an A21 can. The A21 did NOT survive and overall I prefer the 211s over any amp yet tried.
But the A21 was out of this world in terms of drive/volume capability and sheer control. Once witnessed very hard to forget. Jerry's fave on the Apogees so far and I empathise a lot with that view.
I'm just looking for a toy to play with for a while - displacing the 211s has proved impossible for any candidate so far.
Quite like the 4 channel Nak idea Jerry.
Yeah, the Parasound A21 was magnificent on your old Apogees. I've heard quite a few Apogee systems over the years but nothing to match that sound. Awesome. Beat that 211 lightbulb fest of yours by a country mile, imo. :whistle: ;)
I've a high current (100A) 5x100W power amp on the way (I'll use 4 of the channels to bi-amp). Hopefully that will be interesting - if it has good enough sq, I'll bring it 'round, Justin. :)
You buying those Hypex contraptions, then?
Sorry? What? You'll have to speak up - I can't hear nuffin' no more:D
The Hypex? Ssshhh.
Must pop round with the non-CE approved made in the back shed Lampimpator POS some time to see how is works in MBL land. Will PM when I have some time.
Did you buy the Nak then?
jandl100
24-08-2015, 21:39
Buy the nak? No. I would have if it had stayed at £400.
So what is it theN? Or is it a secret for a while?
I didn't buy the Hypex/Merrill amps.
jandl100
24-08-2015, 21:48
Yep. A secret til it gets here and I have a listen :)
Arkless Electronics
25-08-2015, 12:18
What do you propose, Mr Arkless?
Krell.
Saunders if you can find one
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/esl-mark-ii-amplifier
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/magtech-amp
Colin Wonfor
27-08-2015, 19:26
Bored, I was thinking about a solid state very high power amplifier to drive the Apogees with as an alternative to my current thermionic setup.
Am looking for something that might beat a Parasound A21 which I used to feed with an EAR868PL. The EAR has long since gone, but the Parasound and EAR together produced some stunning sounds.
The power amp or amps will be fed by a tube preamp via RCA connectors.
Greater than 400 Watts into 4 Ohms is what I am after.
Just sling me some ideas... even though I promised myself I would no upgrade for a while. I'm justifying it as a side-grade:D That is, if I see something worth taking a punt on.
Monos or stereo but please power amps only.
I probably will not keep any solid state amp long term... so it'll be a 2nd hand buy with the view to letting it go after a while.
The Parasound could quite literally astonish with drive capability and dynamics. Similar capability in another contender would be what I am after I think.
Budget no more than £2-3K 2nd hand. Preferably a lot less.
Well if you fancy building it, I designed one to shake wings of aircraft a few years ago, it's only 10KW you will need 3 phase and it would make a nice DIY project for the brave, and it is bridgeable to only 36KW sorry.
BW 0.1Hz - 100KHz Flat.
About 10 times what a Scintilla needs on paper. Result!:)
I'll give it a miss though:D
daytona600
28-08-2015, 12:30
Saunders if you can find one
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/esl-mark-ii-amplifier
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/magtech-amp
Don,t forget the Monos rated in horsepower if your house looks like a bond villians lair
found the stereo magtechs suitable for 99% of all speakers & rooms
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/magtech-monoblock-amp
Bluedroog
29-08-2015, 14:18
Never heard them so I cannot recommend but simply point you in the direction of but have you ever looked at Emotiva amps? The emphasis is on power and value for money. American designed, Chinese built they are not so common this side of the pond but they are big in the States.
Yes I have heard of them. Not looking for an import as I thoroughly resent paying the stateside charges. The Euro is weak though so anything European is OK with me.
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Accuphase-M-60-Monobloecke-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/UJsAAOSw3ydV7Ga0/$_57.JPG
First Accuphase monos 450 Watts into 4 Ohms. Nice.
Eisener Bart
07-09-2015, 06:35
Saunders if you can find one
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/esl-mark-ii-amplifier
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/magtech-amp
if it needs more power: :lol:
http://labgruppen.com/view-model/plm-series/plm-20000q
Peak total output all channels driven 20000 W
Peak output voltage per channel 194 V
Max output current per channel 67 A peak
Max output power all channels driven
16 ohms 1150 W
8 ohms 2300 W
4 ohms 4400 W 1
2 ohms 4800 W 1
All channels driven into optimal impedance interval > 5000 W into 2.2 - 3.3 ohms
Max output power bridged
8 ohms 8800 W
4 ohms 9600 W
Bridged into optimal impedance interval > 10000 W into 4.4 – 6.6 ohms
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Accuphase-M-60-Monobloecke-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/UJsAAOSw3ydV7Ga0/$_57.JPG
First Accuphase monos 450 Watts into 4 Ohms. Nice.
Mmmm! They look nice, even though I have a thing about uneccessary power meters.
awkwardbydesign
07-09-2015, 11:41
Mmmm! They look nice, even though I have a thing about uneccessary power meters.
How can power meters be unnecessary? Go wash your mouth out!
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m604/awkwardbydesign/Jungson%20JA88D%2009/e98ea018-41f0-45c4-862b-d5e23d67fb5e_zps7clfr9cg.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/awkwardbydesign/media/Jungson%20JA88D%2009/e98ea018-41f0-45c4-862b-d5e23d67fb5e_zps7clfr9cg.jpg.html)
How can power meters be unnecessary? Go wash your mouth out!
[URL=http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/awkwardbydesign/media/Jungson%20JA88D%2009/e98ea018-41f0-45c4-862b-d5e23d67fb5e_zps7clfr9cg.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m604/awkwardbydesign/Jungson%20JA88D%2009/e98ea018-41f0-45c4-862b-d5e23d67fb5e_zps7clfr9cg.jpg
What do they actually tell you? Are the accurate? Do they have the correct ballistics? They are just a distraction and are uneccessary.
if it needs more power: :lol:
http://labgruppen.com/view-model/plm-series/plm-20000q
Peak total output all channels driven 20000 W
Peak output voltage per channel 194 V
Max output current per channel 67 A peak
Max output power all channels driven
16 ohms 1150 W
8 ohms 2300 W
4 ohms 4400 W 1
2 ohms 4800 W 1
All channels driven into optimal impedance interval > 5000 W into 2.2 - 3.3 ohms
Max output power bridged
8 ohms 8800 W
4 ohms 9600 W
Bridged into optimal impedance interval > 10000 W into 4.4 – 6.6 ohms
Utterly insane and amazingly compact looking. Good post!
What do they actually tell you? Are the accurate? Do they have the correct ballistics? They are just a distraction and are uneccessary.
Cool though if you feel like letting them phase you out after a few beers.
There's more than a hint of ARC aesthetic in the Accuphase amps which I believe are from 1976. Must admit I'd like a pair. If they were massively disappointing sonically they'd still be worth a bit when passed on just because of the heritage.
jandl100
07-09-2015, 12:31
How can power meters be unnecessary? Go wash your mouth out!
+1 :thumbsup:
http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/14/62/53/29/p1070315.jpg
:drool:
Only 180wpc, but who cares! ;)
awkwardbydesign
07-09-2015, 13:19
What do they actually tell you? Are the accurate? Do they have the correct ballistics? They are just a distraction and are uneccessary.
They don't even have any numbers printed on them. And distractions ARE necessary! :lol:
Although I'm not allowed to have them lit up. :nono: :(
awkwardbydesign
07-09-2015, 13:21
if it needs more power: :lol:
http://labgruppen.com/view-model/plm-series/plm-20000q
Peak total output all channels driven 20000 W
Peak output voltage per channel 194 V
Max output current per channel 67 A peak
Max output power all channels driven
16 ohms 1150 W
8 ohms 2300 W
4 ohms 4400 W 1
2 ohms 4800 W 1
All channels driven into optimal impedance interval > 5000 W into 2.2 - 3.3 ohms
Max output power bridged
8 ohms 8800 W
4 ohms 9600 W
Bridged into optimal impedance interval > 10000 W into 4.4 – 6.6 ohms
Pah. Can't be any good, it only weighs 17Kg.
Beobloke
07-09-2015, 15:48
What do they actually tell you? .
They tell you how awesome the sound you're listening to is.
Are the accurate?
Who cares?
Do they have the correct ballistics?
See above!
They are just a distraction and are uneccessary.
Nooooooooo - they're essential! :doh:
awkwardbydesign
07-09-2015, 15:58
They tell you how awesome the sound you're listening to is.
Who cares?
See above!
Nooooooooo - they're essential! :doh:
That's my boy!:kiss:
They tell you how awesome the sound you're listening to is.
If you can't hear that for yourself, useless meters aren't going to tell you either. They are a pointless distraction for those who need something to show off their manhood.
If you can't hear that for yourself, useless meters aren't going to tell you either. They are a pointless distraction for those who need something to show off their manhood.
Actually, I think it's the size of your record collection that....well, never mind.
I honestly think they're a distraction only if you allow them to be. I've had an amplifier with power meters for three months now, and I rarely look at them.
awkwardbydesign
07-09-2015, 17:02
If you can't hear that for yourself, useless meters aren't going to tell you either. They are a pointless distraction for those who need something to show off their manhood.
They only work for people with a sense of humour. :ner:
They only work for people with a sense of humour. :ner:
Fair enough! A connected spectrum analyser or a plasma globe would be more fun to watch. :ner:
A mere £8,500 for that Lab.Gruppen PLM 20000Q. Not bad value per Watt, but where are the power meters?
awkwardbydesign
07-09-2015, 20:06
Fair enough! A connected spectrum analyser or a plasma globe would be more fun to watch. :ner:
I have both of them AND two lava lamps. :ner::ner:
awkwardbydesign
07-09-2015, 20:13
A mere £8,500 for that Lab.Gruppen PLM 20000Q. Not bad value per Watt, but where are the power meters?
Get your soldering iron out! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/high-precision-Audio-power-Amplifier-VU-meter-DB-level-Header-LED-EU-warehouse-/281573559410?hash=item418f178c72
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m604/awkwardbydesign/meter_zps0sf3nsvp.jpg
Get your soldering iron out! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/high-precision-Audio-power-Amplifier-VU-meter-DB-level-Header-LED-EU-warehouse-/281573559410?hash=item418f178c72
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m604/awkwardbydesign/meter_zps0sf3nsvp.jpg
Well at least they use Alnico magnets, so won't sound too bad. :lol:
awkwardbydesign
08-09-2015, 07:21
Well at least they use Alnico magnets, so won't sound too bad. :lol:
Do they really? Coo, I just saw "cute appearance"!
Shallow? Moi?
At least they are orange: the correct colour for illuminated power meters.
awkwardbydesign
08-09-2015, 08:17
At least they are orange: the correct colour for illuminated power meters.
Actually they are VU meters; I was too lazy to look any further. But I do like the colour; if there was room I would fit similar voltmeters on my valve amp for biasing.
Electrocompaniet NEMO monoblocs available in Wigwam classifieds, £4k though.
realysm42
09-09-2015, 14:05
Sanders Magtech as a recommendation right here.
Currently listening to it and loving it. I can play to 100db easily and the thing doesn't break a sweat. I know you've said your bit on it, but you'd be missing out if you pass it over. Plus it'd be bang in your budget if you went second hand (and could actually find one for sale).
Love the thing; I must admit to wanting an upgrade though... To two of them :eyebrows:
Roger is also a pleasure to deal with, very knowledgeable and always takes time to explain the answers to whatever you ask him.
Boy is the Magtech getting some praise.
I have made my mind up on something. Watch this space, but it may not come off.
BTW the Merrill/Hypex review is on the Wam now. They didn't work well for my tastes - I found them somewhat dry, curiously undynamic considering the power rating and somewhat mid band bright compared to the bass output.
Watts do not mean dynamics. My weedy 211 monos better the Merrill's easily in that regard. However in the right circuit Watts can definitely help:D
Something mentioned in this thread or something else?
Merrill's? Yes earlier on.
They may well suit a system with a warm balance by default. I don't think a Wilson based system would be a good idea. But there's no accounting for taste.
Soz u mean the amp I am going for? I'd rather keep quiet for the mo.
daytona600
10-09-2015, 07:57
Sanders Magtech as a recommendation right here.
Currently listening to it and loving it. I can play to 100db easily and the thing doesn't break a sweat. I know you've said your bit on it, but you'd be missing out if you pass it over. Plus it'd be bang in your budget if you went second hand (and could actually find one for sale).
Love the thing; I must admit to wanting an upgrade though... To two of them :eyebrows:
Roger is also a pleasure to deal with, very knowledgeable and always takes time to explain the answers to whatever you ask him.
Sanders Sound Systems - Magtech Power Amplifier Stereo 500wpc
£ 3499 New or £2999 for a demo one
Black or Silver
lifetime warranty
hifinutt
10-09-2015, 19:02
Sanders Sound Systems - Magtech Power Amplifier Stereo 500wpc
£ 3499 New or £2999 for a demo one
Black or Silver
lifetime warranty
now that's a bargain. I did really think about the magtech before I bought my current offering
seems well worth a try
Compared to MSB most definitely:)
daytona600
11-09-2015, 08:25
Magtech voted TAS The Absolute Sound - The ten most significant amplifiers of all time
The Absolute Sound Magtech receives Editor's Choice in TAS 2015 Buyer's Guide
2015, 2014 ,2013 , 2012 & 2011
Of all the "high power" amplifiers an ASR Emitter is one that I would love to try.
hifinutt
11-09-2015, 18:18
Compared to MSB most definitely:)
yes although I couldn`t believe what an amazing upgrade the msb power amps were on my extremely belles competent monoblocks . the realism os brilliant and even with an exceptionally modest pre amp like a tisbury it sounds brilliant let alone my current modwright jobbie
yes although I couldn`t believe what an amazing upgrade the msb power amps were on my extremely belles competent monoblocks . the realism os brilliant and even with an exceptionally modest pre amp like a tisbury it sounds brilliant let alone my current modwright jobbie
For 'solid staters' I rate them very highly, and their DACs.
ASR - really not good at all through big YGs but then I do not like YGs the few times I have heard them.
hifinutt
11-09-2015, 18:52
yes the asr are a bit big . I like the msb as I can tuck it away in a corner and use a remote control on it [on and off]
Can't be arsed to look up the exact model designation but the circular power amps with the blue heat sinks are awesome. Loved them through some big ribbon tweeter ProAcs.
They take up more space and money though:(
Cease your Dithering around Fella!!! Lamm 1.2 Signature or Pass Labs .5 /latest .8 or are you merely lonely?
Spectral Morn
11-09-2015, 19:44
Can't be arsed to look up the exact model designation but the circular power amps with the blue heat sinks are awesome. Loved them through some big ribbon tweeter ProAcs.
They take up more space and money though:(
MSB M202
Regards Neil
Cease your Dithering around Fella!!! Lamm 1.2 Signature or Pass Labs .5 /latest .8 or are you merely lonely?
If you'd read earlier I told you I had made a decision.
Accuphase M-60 monos should be on their way soon.
If you'd read earlier I told you I had made a decision.
Accuphase M-60 monos should be on their way soon.
More than decent amplifier, damping factor perhaps a tad on the low side for your speaks, should you dig it the M-100 that I ran for While would be an even nicer match.
More than decent amplifier, damping factor perhaps a tad on the low side for your speaks, should you dig it the M-100 that I ran for While would be an even nicer match.
Well I was just curious enough to want to try them. Generally thought to be decent enough driving planars from what I have read.
There is always a better amp:)
jandl100
13-09-2015, 19:11
300wpc
Should be interesting.
Shame Tough Bob never brought his Monsta Krells round.
300wpc
Should be interesting.
Shame Tough Bob never brought his Monsta Krells round.
450 into 4 Ohms.
Which Krells did Bob have at the time? Can you remember?
jandl100
13-09-2015, 19:19
KAS 2? :scratch:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_98vyfZ-DuYw/S3VlzY9g5wI/AAAAAAAAA5U/5NALFJZ5CfM/s400/Krell+KAS+2.jpg
Kind of maybe yeah looks about right. Certainly looked similar if I remember correctly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTp9cZwblg0
Big, clunky, discrete attenuators:D
Looks maintainable, though.
Firebottle
15-09-2015, 07:11
Big, clunky, discrete attenuators:D.
Ooh er mother. Only 5% resistors though :scratch:
Time for a rebuild:D
Actually who is to say what is genuine in there. It is a 40 year old amp. I suspect almost all have had work on, and I am pretty sure those attenuators just do not last 40 years without some work.
cyclopse
26-09-2015, 19:14
Sure there would be plenty of headroom here;-
http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh538/cyclopse14/image.jpg1_5.jpg
Ah the Master Ref. Are you paying?:D
Accuphase in the delivery depot - was out today. Fun times ahead. Or not. Finger's crossed these 40 year old's made it OK, and they they are, indeed OK.
My money's on black:D
jandl100
01-10-2015, 06:57
Fingers crossed they don't sound like a more recent Accudozephase CD player of my acquaintance! ;)
Good if you like smoooooth :thumbsup:, and a fine cure for insomnia if you don't. :zzz:
.
I've a hunch they won't be wishy washy smooth. But who knows - no further comments til heard, m'Lord.
cyclopse
01-10-2015, 12:20
Accuphase in the delivery depot - was out today. Fun times ahead. Or not. Finger's crossed these 40 year old's made it OK, and they they are, indeed OK.
My money's on black:D
Yes Accuphase, good choice.
trio leo
01-10-2015, 14:43
To a certain degree I suppose it's whether you want the reassurance of big figures to drive your speakers or an amplifier that delivers effortlessly despite smaller figures.
I hope the OP gets the chance to hear before he buys, I made the big mistake of buying for specs once, never again, ears first.
good luck with your search.
enjoy your music :)
cheers Al
With those speakers you haven't got much choice, underpowered amps ain't going to work very well, no matter how sweet they sound.
Not really Martin. The only really seriously good high power amp tried on them was the Parasound A21. Other high power amps haven't been that great - easily seen off by my 80 Watt valve amps. I've probably had 15-20 different amps on them now with power output from 50 Watts to 600 Watts.
These Accuphases were just bought to keep for a while and pass on Alan. I have not heard them. Not many places you can hear 40 year old Accuphase monos. I just love the looks of the things, and have always liked the idea of some huge Accuphase monos. These, being 40 years old, just happen to be easily affordable and re-sellable.
Interesting pairing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOXCZUAfD7k
cyclopse
07-10-2015, 21:56
Accuphase in the delivery depot - was out today. Fun times ahead. Or not. Finger's crossed these 40 year old's made it OK, and they they are, indeed OK.
My money's on black:D
Did they arrive? Seen no pictures yet.
No Steve. They never were in the delivery depot - my mistake. They have in fact been stuck in customs since last Friday. They were sent out two weeks after the auction end as DHL weight limits were exceeded on the first attempt.
Anyway don't expect photos there's a video or two and an excellent photo of the actual amps I bought earlier on in the thread.
jandl100
08-10-2015, 08:19
Noooo - we need to see them nestled in with the Ap Interstellas. :thumbsup:
But that would be too cool for school.
Far cooler, maybe, are these Henk (Netherland's) restored England based Scintillas, the ones that really do need power.
15480
jandl100
08-10-2015, 12:29
Nah, yours are much prettier.
Well even if they arrived it wouldn't do much good. I'm waiting for a bus by the wet, dark looking Danube:D
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/08/461e575aa07934898cacc1b2b15b59d1.jpg
Spectral Morn
08-10-2015, 13:59
Justin.... you are a bit of a tease ;)
Regards Neil
Justin.... you are a bit of a tease ;)
Regards Neil
Something from the National Museum but all Hungarian so not entirely sure what.
Not a migrant in sight (oddly - er...) anywhere and it is very cheap here.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/08/5a3c62dc5d22c1d513e2eec14f45eabc.jpg
jandl100
08-10-2015, 15:38
you're over on mainland Europe? -- so you could have brought the Accuphase monos back yourself as part of your hand luggage. :)
you're over on mainland Europe? -- so you could have brought the Accuphase monos back yourself as part of your hand luggage. :)
With fags at just over £2 a pack, I know what the hand luggage will contain:)
Still stuck in customs - presumably to be released when they realise they aren't WMDs. Or are they? A chap that owns a pair measured them at 450 Watts into 8, and 540 Watts into 4 Ohms. Assuming that's true, that's quite impressive - way over the spec of 300/450.
http://www.klaus-pohlig.de/audiohistory/poweramp/accuphase%20m-60/accuphase%20m-60.htm
Sonically they may well be:eek: 450watts...:doh:
Rather sadly it is looking very much like these have been stolen in transit, with the German courier insisting the UK one has received the goods, and the UK one denying it has ever had them.
Also alarmingly, they have appeared on another German auction site, using the same photos as the ebay auction.
That's not good. Still, at least you've got loads of cheap ciggies....
Yeah - like enough for a good few months:)
jandl100
15-10-2015, 15:16
Nooooooooooooooooo -- :(
Fully insured, I hope.
________
I thought you were giving up on the cancer sticks, Justin? -- all that vaping you were doing - or was that just for looking kool? ;)
Getting the money back shouldn't be a problem.
Anyway, I'm more pissed of about the fact that some non-appreciating tosser has nicked my amps, or so it would appear. I was really looking forward to them.
I do trust the vendor and it has definitely happened in transit.
Vaping to look cool? You're kidding me...:lol: I was smoking last time you were here.
Anyway, I have some VT68_GPO to try in the Lampy DAC for the first time now, and a bottle of Tokaji 5 Puttonyos. So things are looking up!:)
Spectral Morn
15-10-2015, 19:27
Sorry to hear its gone wrong :(
Getting your money back is good, but not getting these rare amps is sad.
Hope you get it all sorted out.
Regards Neil
jandl100
17-10-2015, 06:19
Some love for the Sanders Magtech from another forum ....
ARRIVED!
Switched on for (only) 2 hrs ...
Early impressions, IMHO:
sounds amazing !!
Unlimited power - very dynamic and authoritative.
Balanced through bass/mid/top
Lovely mids - electric organ is excellent
No graininess - l can listen to bad recordings that sounded like barbed wire before!
Really fast and rhythmic
Musical in my setup
Also ...
Runs cool and low power on standby
54lbs but not too big
Good rear layout with WBT terminals
It far betters my Chord 1200C,
so l'm pretty sure l'll be keeping it.
Happy bunny!
I had recommended against it.
Either tastes differ or the design has been improved. Although the bolded line raises a few concerns with me - a smoothie?
500wpc (900 inmto 4 ohms) Justin ;)
Believe it or not the Accuphase amps have just turned up on the doorstep.
It is a long story of massive, collossal incompetence... I'll spare you all:D
jandl100
17-10-2015, 14:17
:yay: ..... Hooked up? .....
No... not even unwrapped yet.
jandl100
17-10-2015, 14:19
:worthless:
:D
cyclopse
17-10-2015, 14:43
Believe it or not the Accuphase amps have just turned up on the doorstep.
It is a long story of massive, collossal incompetence... I'll spare you all:D
So the story has a happy ending.
jandl100
17-10-2015, 14:47
Let's see if they work first.... Kaboom..... Melted Apogees....
My judgement was sound - they are obviously an outstanding solid state design.
Unfortunately one was dropped so hard that the right handle has been offset. These things have survived since 1975/6 and some idiot... words cannot express. The packaging was really good. Just not good enough to handle a careless twat. Mind you it may have been lack of strength. I had difficulty when packed.
I think they may have have had a refurb. The faceplates and general condition is excellent. I wouldn't be surprised if Accuphase still do faceplates. Hard to believe these are original.
I thought the right one was knackered TBH but it turned out the dodgy Cardas connectors Paul was using to terminate his interconnects just don't fit properly. A complaint he received from someone else, That person was right:D
jandl100
17-10-2015, 18:51
Good-oh on the sound quality - is the bent handle fixable, do you think? Is the chassis distorted?
re: Cardas connectors - I've found with other brands of audiophile connectors that they aren't quite standard size. Funny that.
Pics of the amps in situ, please. :thumbsup:
Yeah the handle hit has bent the chassis. I was thinking about tapping it back with a mallet, but there will always be some distortion there.
They do a fantastic Blues For Klook Jerry.
Pics tomoz.
jandl100
17-10-2015, 19:01
OK. :)
When can they strut their stuff on some MBLs? :popcorn: == I'm around most of the coming week. ;)
Spectral Morn
17-10-2015, 19:06
Believe it or not the Accuphase amps have just turned up on the doorstep.
It is a long story of massive, collossal incompetence... I'll spare you all:D
Excellent news :) :cool:
Edit ahhhh spoke to soon. I hope you can get the damaged one fixed.
Regards Neil
jandl100
17-10-2015, 19:07
re: Cardas connectors - I've found with other brands of audiophile connectors that they aren't quite standard size. Funny that.
... maybe Cardas intends his connectors to be used with Cardas sockets - maybe they are equally slightly non-standard? :scratch:
The only reason they worked on the 211s was because the lead was bent at an angle putting sideways pressure on them. Oddly, at the preamp end they seem fine.
I'm busy all week Jerry. You should really come and hear them on the Interstellas first.
These aren't going anywhere quickly. But I promise they'll make it to yours at some stage. They're pig heay - not as bad as the 211s, but quite a handful. And I don't have any proper crates for them, so risky to transport.
Gillian says "It's a really nice sound. I'm well impressed. I think you should sell the others.". They must be good, then:)
Paradise Circus by Massive Attack has the power meters swinging briefly into the 300 Watt mark...:D Effortlessly and pleasantly loud. The best the 211s can manage is short bursts of 170. They are running hot.
This is the best sounding solid state design I have had on the Apogees so far. I don't think that's new toy elation. I think it is real.
So the story has a happy ending.
Steve - get yourself round here when you have the chance.;)
jandl100
18-10-2015, 06:37
Justin, I sent an email, not sure you got it, I'll send and AOS PM instead. :)
Replied to.
Quite why Paradise Circus draws so much power is a mystery. Other broadly similar material doesn't. Generally the power meters stay below the 100 Watt mark.
Actually Blues For Klook when cranked hits between 300 Watts and "the void" region. Crank it enough and sure enough Watts do get drunk.
Here's the one with the bent handle, looking OK in these shots.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l6RLzmkhrhtG0nh13zWy9NzaHkYGI-S9vH7aS1erl8TQFOrSwNnx-aQcioQvZ1ARiIiH4F-LzkBUE_I4B_QtkrWOMTElfQs6u1CkObeUs18Mlg45f8BAL4DO-h4oJjcWAoI3btmul8fZwLmm1O6Dt16zXrK6djT5GU1i5eFOgQw 2vXGuBvtyu_WRKH1P8OoI6CG7ZJd1Fu1CXTZ6WczARZiAHpzJJ oYOz1OiCYOHV0ZuFzqLfyJNtxTXC5yMJobLltiTXFwciB9orc4 AMrzHCazx0eywNLcxWrgUN6wTvp4ntbVMUOF-UqMmqKuIfys205knZo73KYCNdeQlXkaxcCkHfrC-v3kgiVO3e1c0r7Acq_fWA3Oo8OZCe09ikl63Zf_mNJnFDADiPJ NL0_yBL2fwyI7gAYNb9Znp8uwSl5TwZB6xJduKryIEdg3Fv_bJ fR5PjsDZ9aUvG0sh96W1WAg3oOlhL8PzZhHPn2Nyu7V9JxdyOd a8yyyVQeCZ0qU1h7vy209CAYiVrnCqR5xh7QFOaUP2wjXc-g50Mlv0ADw=w1065-h599-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ibvvAD7nioToW_vbnqAm7JaU-JQ-2X95eNex4HQhQevp3RC4TG68ZeKRNZKfRfRQFxOpTYHRFcgilx dgKxduIalI44KBvUiuqwqSKnLFeyg9uuOV6Dswpdvzvlt19pOD eTDUBTJ272km8GID_jpkUHtvUJLW-EKMdqU2Oi3Zoie5w6_BAarDgXSRveLnMJl0pGtnHtH8IWea_lR CndBj8Kdl3TXvA9yIh2PEXQOfeuRaybaO3fLs6bkKb5tBX-re7bv_hqLXzVffopt1HMjU_c-qhuP5i_P32xoIRg--XQufXtAReSpmKim4CDcNNvO8eNuFLKkH9P6T4_GIwOqk1x_tvR Kkzqbk92S8pirS130a2LtxYGDw3jI2f2CsAa5dpdlbhCREGhpU-2fp7uQafvpjJvg9zDRa7Yu8PeftDOVluojWKgu73eb9-M4sqTic0yI4dbGPdHUcOSynD7WE5YpaSUtQtgXznBWsPijyqb4 L-mmCi8y6-VmRChI8XJsh5kVIIXF4k75J0jrqF8nXxqjSxgAcr8rkNBcXOho eJ0E=w1065-h599-no
jandl100
18-10-2015, 15:42
pics don't work for me
Google photos again. I ask it for shareable links and each time it comes back with a different link to the same friggin' photo. I think I'll leave it for a while. Maybe it'll settle down.
It is looking like they are trying to force sharing only with Google+, Facebook and Twitter. Maybe that is why I had such trouble with the Silverstone photos - I just found away around it. vBulletin say they don't support Google+. But Google say you can send a shared link to anyone. Which kind of implies it should work anywhere. Something odd going on here.
That said maybe this will work:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RmqI8A6C7jwsEZQaKaKREWp2OxjXTd-HEgG07vqo8AbI-MpxQ3oO8FtRo9P0fBje2lJSfzDZsRxf4S2KeWNteIOAZPIGfGM 2YT15DZ2JX1g0emI-zgsAvYpoxWbnZ6ggC1pQI4FI5PSJLy0nKxTqo-uYPPctYCZ9IryOdZ15IYAhvqvkR2W-6q8bwxc-ZbqNTVUhOh9Fwlclh9gAqlDEx8aGSusnNi-ORA-MxzZQYOBwxKgKdZ1EpnWfVmNwLK5k-TCPDmvxQe7VrNxkZhHsl_e9ZJ_QOPRRNCA4sU6fucuJ9umPKg3 dk8na7_qcSIvMkoXpzbv1eFeJjuD0KAR-EXLYLsS_ent7nHtaQoww3nt5nZXrXPCqFV2GXJvji1Sz9SUG2z OJAvPAnLwX1C7_ZanKg0O6qrOsNt0TIanmi0ndhAIH5rDllm9w om-pvH_OJuXo4Kxi6ATCubMYq2h9Quxk2g0OmpUZ2VGN4DEbC1B-uhDPcl97pQmXeK0ALzLwxXixaY5GtYAaY-lM0EhOTch2N7VzLrDK7IYl-UwRu9o=w1065-h599-no
You'd think Chrome would be better but it just doesn't work properly at all. The photo management interface looks appalling wrong on my machine. I wonder what Google are up to they really seem to be losing the plot.
jandl100
18-10-2015, 16:15
works now - FABULOUS !!! :stalks:
Just dumped on the floor for the mo;)
awkwardbydesign
18-10-2015, 16:47
I still can't see the pics, unfortunately. :(
Well - you've been in the room Richard - more than most. Shame you didn't hear these though as I think the 211s may finally have been beat. Time will tell but these are damned impressive very euphonic sounding buggers. They really are.
What is going on? I just logged out of Google (which I did before) and they worked. I've just re-booted the machine as an additional test and I can't see them now. Give up for the mo.
Still there for me. you may have to be logged into google to see them, I dont know... I'm always logged on
Now they work for me in Chrome (logged out of Google) but not in IE. The mystery thickens. There is no apparent logic.
If I copy the links directly out of the posts in IE and enter them into a new tab in IE, they work. Just madness.
I can probably post them for you Jason if you want
Grant - did you mean Richard? I have them on my hard drive/camera.
Sorry I thought Richard and other could not see the pics you posted which I can see in 2 posts. I was going to post them using something like imageshack if it helped. maybe I got wrong end of stick
orbscure
18-10-2015, 17:43
Nothing visible to me too... just a pair of broken image symbols...
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/905/BtE405.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/909/IZoQgP.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/633/kKbN2v.jpg
Top man - I won't be using Google Photos anymore.
orbscure
18-10-2015, 17:57
Cheers Grant... well worth the wait :) They are things of beauty :eek:
Top man - I won't be using Google Photos anymore.
I use imageshack as they are good and reliable. the dont do a free service anymore(used to do a limited one I think but its being stopped) premium is about $3.99 a month I think but you get full mcCoy .........
awkwardbydesign
18-10-2015, 19:05
I just use Photobucket. My photos are so crap it doesn't make any difference.
I can't see the damage, BTW.
I just use Photobucket. My photos are so crap it doesn't make any difference.
I can't see the damage, BTW.
I just used my Photobucket account to fix the pic on the Lampizator thread. It is ad ridden, and sometimes the servers just don't respond. For a good while Google Photos was excellent and free. Now it isn't. That's progress for you.
The damage is there I promise you. They're just clever photos:) Just e-mailed Accuphase UK looking for a replacement. These things are worth keeping tiperty top.
cyclopse
18-10-2015, 21:04
I like the silver face plates, classic looking. Thinking about the way your speakers work I know you will get first class results with a big solid state design.
A blacksmith may be able to work that handle. But it's going to need heat which could damage the finish.
Thanks for the Massive Attack track, wonderful bass guitar work. Looking forward to hearing these babies.
Regards
Steve
This is the first of countless solid state attempts to beat the valve amps Steve that sounds as though it might long term. Both Saturday and today's session seem to be telling me that quite strongly.
Jerry is round this Friday. You're welcome from the weekend after onwards...:) I'd do a bake off but I just can't be arsed and it isn't the best room for one anyway.
jandl100
18-10-2015, 21:26
This is the first of countless solid state attempts to beat the valve amps
:nono:
The Parasound A21 did it for me in spades.
Didn't for me long term but hey. I agree in a short session they could sound amazing. Long term live with everyday different story - they were just too much. These are no Parasound A21, as you will find out. Very different blend of qualities.
jandl100
18-10-2015, 21:44
Coo, intriguing - I'm much looking forward to Friday. :)
Hope you like them. I know I do. I don't want to hype them beyond all belief, but these work. I really seriously like them. So much so I have ordered some shelf spacers from Atacama so they can live in the rack.
jandl100
21-10-2015, 07:30
Perhaps someone fancies a baby one? -- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Accuphase-P-260-Class-A-B-Power-Amp-Very-good-condition-Excellent-sound-power-/331686862476?hash=item4d3a13de8c:g:jfkAAOSwl9BWGVh 8
stock image ...
http://www.abload.de/img/trio01480i0d.jpg
>yum<
cyclopse
23-10-2015, 19:11
Coo, intriguing - I'm much looking forward to Friday. :)
Do tell us what happened.
jandl100
23-10-2015, 19:49
Do tell us what happened.
OK. :)
I've just returned from Justin's.
My ears have stopped ringing, but I do have a slight hissy tinnitus in my left ear now. It is fading and hopefully will be gone by tomorrow.
Justin likes to play his music at 11 on the dial.
That is increased to 12 when he has visitors, I think. :)
Gosh, that is a mighty impressive pair of amps.
Stunning to look at.
Hugely impressive to hear.
Justin tends to listen to full-bore music in a full-bore kind of way. No shrinking violet, he. :nono:
Those Accuphase amps are astonishingly, whip-crack fast. Especially in the mids and treble. The bass lags a little behind in that regard, imo. It's still very good, or those amps would no longer be hooked up (bass is important to Justin!).
Very transparent and detailed, not rolled off in any way! - definitely not for the pipe&slipper brigade who would probably run from the listening room in horror.
It's interesting comparing the sound to when I took my Parasound A21 round to his and played them on his previous Apogees. The Parasound had a bit more sweep and majesty, I think, quite awesome in its way, but lacked the ultimate speed and resolution of the Accuphase amps.
Superb on Justin-music (bass-led, superdynamic, loud & slammy), not quite such allrounders on classical (my preferred fare) with some forwardness when stressed, especially violins. Wonderful rez on my fave solo lute music - I'm playing music from the same series as I type - and my system (no slouch in itself) does not have the amazing resolution of Justin's, especially in the mids. My sound is a bit more relaxed, though, which I prefer.
Personally, I think Justin has found his perfect amps for his musical tastes and his speakers. Those big 211 valve monos of his are damn good, but I think they have more than met their match in his system
I've always said that Justin's Apogees are a real b*stard to drive, and hearing them with my 250wpc Parasound and now the 300wpc Accuphase merely confirms that view.
Marvellous stuff, but for the sake of my hearing, can we limit the volume to 11 next time, please!
Accuphase's first monoblocks were and are outstanding. Must have caused a stir in 1975.
Anyway yeah that was too loud, the Dream Theatre was crazy loud but effortless. Dangerous combo!
Shoving these on the MBLs is going to be interesting indeed.
BTW Steve I'll go easy on you volume wise.
One thing these amps have told me is the speaker's are better than I thought they were. As Gillian said "the sound coming out of there is nothing short of superb".
So that's two independent's who " reckon".
If you need some power and can track a pair down I cannot think of a better recommendation to try. There's a gap between these and anything else I have tried that isn't small.
awkwardbydesign
24-10-2015, 08:41
One thing these amps have told me is the speaker's are better than I thought they were. As Gillian said "the sound coming out of there is nothing short of superb".
That's interesting. They were very good when I heard them, so they must be something else now!
They are daft good, Richard. The question is why?
I'm going to pop the lid and see how they shape up inside.
cyclopse
24-10-2015, 10:43
BTW Steve I'll go easy on you volume wise.
One thing these amps have told me is the speaker's are better than I thought they were. As Gillian said "the sound coming out of there is nothing short of superb".
So that's two independent's who " reckon".
If you need some power and can track a pair down I cannot think of a better recommendation to try. There's a gap between these and anything else I have tried that isn't small.
Thank you. But then the VPAs will take some beating with these new 845s'. Our systems are very different in their presentations. I'm more after resolution and sound staging rather than dynamics and visceral slam. Do the heat sinks get very hot at those higher volumes?
Thanks
Steve
Yeah Jerry's Dream Theatre Hold Me Under had the power needles almost to full deflection and they do get hot when driven loud for a long time as Jerry will comfirm.
However return to normal levels and they cool down quickly. Normal usage is just mildly warm.
If anyone knows how much a pair of M-60s was at retail in 1975 I'd be very interested to know.
jandl100
24-10-2015, 20:13
I am happy (and relieved) to be able to report that the hissy tinnititus in my left ear has now pretty much faded away. Phew.
Let's stop at 11 on the dial next time, Justin. :thumbsup:
You can say turn it down Jerry. Trouble is I was really enjoying it and you went loud with Dream Theatre last time. But it is louder in the listening seat. Not by much though.
The TIDAL servers naturally started working after you left:D
jandl100
24-10-2015, 20:47
Probably my ageing eardrums - 60 next feb. :doh:
jandl100
24-10-2015, 20:48
... anyway, getting you to turn the volume down would probably require an act of parliament backed up by a squad of SAS commandos :D
walpurgis
24-10-2015, 21:25
Probably my ageing eardrums - 60 next feb. :doh:
A mere whippersnapper my boy! :lol:
jandl100
24-10-2015, 21:40
:wheniwasaboy:
jandl100
25-10-2015, 07:51
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c0/b8/ca/c0b8cae4a0849bb76a1379b76156f32e.jpg or http://www.arnoldsteinhardt.com/keyofstrawberry.com/media/Listen.png
I dunno Jerry. I'll never forget going to the Hemel Hempstead Pavilion in 1979 and watching the band Starjets supporting Stiff Little Fingers. The volume was off the scale and the tinnitus last more than a week. The Starjets were louder than any other live event I subsequently attended anywhere.
Was lucky enough to see Joy Division there supporting the Buzzcocks (http://www.joydiv.org/c051179.htm). Ian Curtis live was a never forget experience. Best dancer on the planet. Dead months later. Tragic loss.
Lid off and there is hardly a trace of dust. Strange. I had thought the reservoir caps had been replaced as they looked black through the grille. Nope. They are the original ELNAs. I think these amps have been unused for many years personally - possibly in storage somewhere.
They did use 5% resistors. Excuse the foam:D
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/attenuator_zpsqltqsh6i.jpg
Display related electronics.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/accu1_zpspxye5kwn.jpg
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/accu2_zpsyjd9ow9o.jpg
Nothing in these amps will be replaced unless absolutely necessary.
I have not owned better in 37 odd years of hi-fi ownershipness.
Going to rack them up in a mo.
Gotta admit I'd love to hear the current top of the range efforts in my system. Anyone out there got some and fancy bringing round LOL?
The thin black line in the first pic is me doing it accidentally MS Paint!
Found the service manual free here. (http://www.amplimos.it/images/accuphase-m60-power-amplifier-schematic[1].pdf)
Page 4 shows how to remove the fascia which is easy. Looking at it I wasn't confident that's how it could be done, now I am. All I need now is someone who can flatten the plate. Any ideas recommendations anyone? A car body shop?
Good website for some I am sure loads of schematics for free (http://www.amplimos.it/diyschemes.htm). Better than buying on ebay.
And power meters - how did I ever live without power meters?:scratch:
awkwardbydesign
27-10-2015, 20:47
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c0/b8/ca/c0b8cae4a0849bb76a1379b76156f32e.jpg [SIZE=7]
Recently my next door neighbour knocked and hesitantly asked me to turn it down, as her daughter couldn't sleep. I'm 67 next week.:D
I try to only play music when my neighbour it out.
Steve (Cyclopse) came round to listen to the new amps (he's been before) with some very good music. Jerry will note we played with normal everyday listening levels.
Anyway he also came with this. Anyone know who is responsible, how it is used, what it is for?
Excuse the bad mobile pic. Click on it.
15654
They are two of Peter Belt's hyper foo devices - modern ones too.
Girly geometry set[emoji12]
walpurgis
08-11-2015, 19:54
Home circumcision kit? :eek:
They are two of Peter Belt's hyper foo devices - modern ones too.
Superb well done. He's 83 now so Steve told me.
Steve thinks it does something. Me? Less convinced.
At school, we used to put croc clips on our noses and see who could tolerate it the longest. Now that makes your eyes water. It's agony.
Apparently with these you hold the two devices together and touch it against components. The energy released improves the sound.
Quantum clip and tweezers, £500 of nonsense.
Steve thinks it does something. Me? Less convinced..
Presumably your friend also believes in the power of crystals, lay lines and the Easter bunny. My own experience of PWB 'devices' doesn't leave me unconvinced, it leaves me entirely convinced that they are nonsense.
Quantum clip and tweezers, £500 of nonsense.
£500. Surely you jest?
walpurgis
08-11-2015, 20:12
Apparently with these you hold the two devices together and touch it against components. The energy released improves the sound.
I'd be embarrassed to even suggest doing that, let alone saying I actually believed in it!
Nope, I've just looked at the price list - £5 of random junk glued together, £495 profit. Peter Belt is the David Icke of audio.
And where can I buy these
I agree I've just been looking too.
Speechless.
Rest assured Steve's system is good. It really is.
He also knew if I posted it'd cause a reaction. So it isn't like he doesn't know.
And where can I buy these
From the PWB website together with a host of other magic creams and pretty stickers. His wife May seems to be the prime 'front facing' part of the company and even posted on this forum for a short while.
How many are you going for Grant?:)
Thought they may send me a mix for a trial and i report on their attributes. ..isn't that how it works... well I can only hope lol
http://www.pwbelectronics.co.uk/free-sample-of-pwb-silver-rainbow-foil looks that way Grant.
Maybe Steve is a secret PWB pusher...
http://www.pwbelectronics.co.uk/free-sample-of-pwb-silver-rainbow-foil looks that way Grant.
Maybe Steve is a secret PWB pusher...
:D the cream sounds like fun..... now lets see if some of the big boys fancy me as a shiller for there products :lol: Hi end of course.....:D
jandl100
09-11-2015, 10:29
oh god, I'm losing the will to live .... :doh:
I am going to place a bit of paper underneath one leg of each component, PWB styleee.
Why? Cos when Steve left, the system sounded better than ever. The Quantum wotsit MUST have been responsible. Surely. Maybe. Not.
Now if Steve paid £500 for it I'll eat my hat.
Steve? Chime in time surely....:)
jandl100
09-11-2015, 12:47
I remember back in the 80s putting a piece of paper under 1 component foot having read a PWB article in Hifi Answers or similar.
I really did.
It must have been the wrong Quantum number paper, though, as it made feck all difference. :eyebrows:
Beobloke
09-11-2015, 13:05
I remember back in the 80s putting a piece of paper under 1 component foot having read a PWB article in Hifi Answers or similar.
I really did.
It must have been the wrong Quantum number paper, though, as it made feck all difference. :eyebrows:
Did you have the paper the right way up?
I am going to place a bit of paper underneath one leg of each component, PWB styleee.
Why? Cos when Steve left, the system sounded better than ever. The Quantum wotsit MUST have been responsible. Surely. Maybe. Not.
Now if Steve paid £500 for it I'll eat my hat.
Steve? Chime in time surely....:)
If he paid £5 it was too much. I just don't get this stuff at all. If someone is not happy with their system this won't help and if they have already maxed out their system and have no-where else to go this won't help either. Like having a Bugatti Veyron and painting racing stripes on it in the hope of getting an extra 4 BHP.
jandl100
09-11-2015, 13:10
Did you have the paper the right way up?
:doh: that must have been it. Inverted quantums - how could it possibly have worked?
cyclopse
09-11-2015, 18:25
A respected audio publication has PWB in their recommended components;-
http://www.stereophile.com/content/2015-recommended-components-miscellaneous#AoDigsdrCo8OMYfr.97
P.W.B. Electronics Cream Electret: £20 per 15ml jar
The active ingredient of this nontoxic, odorless balm was discovered by Peter W. Belt to improve the listening experience by relieving stress. AD heard slight increases in nuance and force when he spread the cream under the front edge of his preamp, but heard no change in the sound when he spread the cream on his speaker stands. "No one with an open mind, a sense of whimsy, and $40 in his pocket should fail to try this tweak, which is made my two of the most sincere people in the industry," sums up AD. Write to foil@pwbelectronics.co.uk for a free sample of Cream Electret. (Vol.35 No.5 WWW)
P.W.B. Electronics Rainbow Electret Foil: £20 for three 170 by 15mm strips
These small (170 by 15mm), prismatic stickers are meant to be cut into smaller strips and placed directly over the "33 1/3 on an LP label , or over the Compact Disc logo on the label side of a CD. With the strips properly applied, LPs sounded slightly stronger and more colorful, but CDs sounded less involving and immediate, said AD. Write to foil@pwbelectronics.co.uk for a free sample of Rainbow Electret Foil. (Vol.35 No.5 WWW)
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/2015-recommended-components-miscellaneous#b0bUAeIZjvHw8mwi.99
:lol:
I am a non believer, and no amount of persuasion will make me change my opinion of this!
walpurgis
09-11-2015, 18:48
A respected audio publication has PWB in their recommended components;-
http://www.stereophile.com/content/2015-recommended-components-miscellaneous#AoDigsdrCo8OMYfr.97
I'm sure if you search, recommendations for witch doctors can be found too. :eyebrows:
I'm sure if you search, recommendations for witch doctors can be found too. :eyebrows:
Which doctor?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71dZso6j2GL._SL1010_.jpg
jandl100
09-11-2015, 18:56
This was never going to end happily.
I blame Justin! :D
I don't care if Elvis and the Pope both have this in their top five system tweaks of all time, it's still total bollocks. Anyway, must go as I'm expecting to be probed by aliens shortly and I'm not sure my chakras are properly aligned.
We dont probe any more. There is a limit what you can learn from an ass. Unless your harvesting farts[emoji3]
This was never going to end happily.
I blame Justin! :D
Cyclopse started it and he's coming your way for the MBL session. At least if you'll still open the door.
MBLs and cream. Hm. R u ready?
jandl100
09-11-2015, 21:00
If Stephen starts smearing PWB cream on my MBLs he is in BIG trouble! :lol:
chris.j.s
09-11-2015, 21:48
"Recommend Me A Very High Power Amplifier" Oh that could be an interesting thread, jumps to the last two pages... Wth :scratch:
Slight thread drift... t does occasionally happen here:)
trio leo
13-11-2015, 16:48
Can't really be bothered going thro 243 posts, have you actually found what you are looking for OP?
enjoy your music :)
cheers Al
Can't really be bothered going thro 243 posts, have you actually found what you are looking for OP?
enjoy your music :)
cheers Al
yes he has - some ropey old Accuphase things from 40 years ago ;)
They must be good hence the move into the rewarding world of super-foo...
jandl100
13-11-2015, 17:22
Mods - can you change Justin's AOS ID from User211 to AccuTart. :thumbsup:
Yup super foo'd PWB special issue AccuCraze amps.
Got them on the mid/treble ribbons and the 211 monos on the bass at the moment.
Sounds the wrong way round but the 211s have amazing bass.
You wouldn't want my leccy bills at the moment.
Mods - can you change Justin's AOS ID from User211 to AccuTart. [emoji106]
You just wait til those tarts shag your MBLs:D
jandl100
13-11-2015, 17:33
Damn right - I miss having my ears bleed onto my shirt collar. :D .... tsk, you've removed the Jerry's jealous comment
So - bi-amping, eh.
With a square of paper under one footer of each amp, I trust?
Must admit I don't recall much wrong with the AccuBass. Mmmm - I did mention it didn't seem as extended as it might - Justin was noticabley offended when I said I thought my MBLs bass went deeper :eyebrows: Have the 211 monos changed that?
No I wasn't offended I just know you are wrong as my speakers are +/- 0DB at 21 Hz and yours are not.
Bass is just as you heard with the 211s before
Only really just connected it up...
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