Ears opened today

[Kung fu dog]

Today I went to a local hi fi shop and had a demo that stunned me . The dealer really opened my ears to songs I thought I already knew. The only problem seemed to be with his ears. I asked for for a set of speakers that would suit listening at low volumes and maybe a good amp to match. Also told him my budget for both was about £800 absolute tops. He set me up a set of kef ls5 and a NAD amp coming in at a budget busting £1250.

Did sound great however. Don't know if I more impressed by the setup or depressed at not being able to get it.

[struth]

Gives you an idea of what you like. It is usually the bass freq that travels in houses . so a speaker that doesnt output a lot of bass, and especially doesnt have a woofer or a rear port would be best. Ive been trying full range speakers for a similar reason( I dont really like a lot of bass), so the stuff is out there. Positioning of speakers is also very important, and can dramatically change the bass on many speakers.

[Ninanina]

John do you mean Kef LS50's ? I don't think Kef make a current model called the LS5's unless they were a used pair of course... the LS50's use a single Uni-Q type driver..

[Zoidburg]

I don't get why a dealer would do that, surely if you state a price you don't want to exceed then you would expect them to set up something approaching thar price point. Maybe throw in some more expensive stuff a bit later to demonstrate any possible performance increases. But just to set up something far more than you want to spend stinks of laziness at best if you ask me.

[Kung fu dog]

Yes sorry the LS50 s . Did sound great but not really what I asked for. Amazing bass for a small speaker but still very detailed. Being a bit of a newbie to this hi fi lark I never really got the sound imaging thing people talk about. Instruments were either to the left or the right. These gave more of a 3d quality than I d heard before but at 50% more than my top budget.

[struth]

John do you mean Kef LS50's ? I don't think Kef make a current model called the LS5's unless they were a used pair of course... the LS50's use a single Uni-Q type driver..

Yes Bev, I think thats the one he means... think Kef made l5's(BBC's) but a long time ago. the uni Q is quite a nice driver, but the little ls50's are £600 a pop. Your Tannoy system 800 would be of similar style but bigger...maybe the system 600 would be something to look out for

[Ninanina]

Yes Bev, I think thats the one he means... think Kef made l5's(BBC's) but a long time ago. the uni Q is quite a nice driver, but the little ls50's are £600 a pop. Your Tannoy system 800 would be of similar style but bigger...maybe the system 600 would be something to look out for

I guessed so... Well the LS50's are not particularly sensitive speakers, at about 85dB, so to me are completely unsuitable to John as I still believe that sensitive speakers are the way to go if you need good dynamics at low listening levels... they would definitely not by my first choice to accomplish this requirement...

Yes Grant I would agree that a nice set of Tannoy 600's would be much more suitable for John as they are pretty sensitive at 90 dB

[struth]

I guessed so... Well the LS50's are not particularly sensitive speakers, at about 85dB, so to me are completely unsuitable to John as I still believe that sensitive speakers are the way to go if you need good dynamics at low listening levels... they would definitely not by my first choice to accomplish this requirement...

I'd agree I would think 91 up is needed to keep it real at low volumes, but reducing bass will allow the volume to go up a fair bit without bugging the rest of the family.

[Kung fu dog]

The feeling I got when I left the shop was that I just been shown something that

a, I couldn't afford
b, wasn't really what I asked for.

Despite the fact is what very impressive . Seemed a strange way to do business almost as if it was a stock reply and he hadn't listened to my needs . Something which you guys have done and you re not even trying to sell me anything.

The tannoys look an interesting option. I m also impressed in what I ve read about the temple audio bantam gold amp. Do you think they would pair up well ?

[walpurgis]

I suspect the Temple Bantam Gold and a pair of Tannoy System 600 speakers would pair up rather well. The amp has 25 watts and the Tannoys don't need huge amounts of power to sound good. And they do. They're very nice. They are nice and transparent, do 'imaging' brilliantly and have quite a bit of punch for a smallish speaker.

[Ninanina]

I suspect the Temple Bantam Gold and a pair of Tannoy System 600 speakers would pair up rather well. The amp has 25 watts and the Tannoys don't need huge amounts of power to sound good. And they do. They're very nice. They are nice and transparent, do 'imaging' brilliantly and have quite a bit of punch for a smallish speaker.

I think that would be a great match for John. You can buy a brand new Bantam Gold for £189.99 and a good used pair of Tannoy 600's for about £300'ish so both for less than £500 so well within John's budget of £800

I owned a Bantam Gold for a while and for the money they are superb little amps. I also, as you know, own the 800's, which are the bigger brother to the 600's

I never had the chance to try the Bantam Gold with the Tannoy's as I didn't own them at the same time but I really think it would be a match made in heaven.... very highly recommended by me ;)

I run the 800's with only 10 watts and that's quite enough so the Bantam Gold at 25w will be ample to drive some Tannoy 600's :D

[Macca]

Another option would be to buy the KEFs you liked and get an amplifier second-hand. £200 would get you a used amp that would do justice to the speakers. If you wanted to save more then look for some LS50 going second-hand, they do come up occasionally.

[Audio Al]

Hi John

Does it have 2 be new equipment ?

You would get some very nice used equipment for £500 or less that would stand the test of time

A very well regarded amp is a Sony TA FB 940 R
Speakers are endless , Do you want floor standing or Stand mount ?

Floor stands would be something like Mission 753 freedom floor standers speakers

Stand mounts = Tannoy Precision 6P + some Atacama stands would be fine as well

I always opt for used quality equipment that you can go and listen 2 before parting with your cash

Good luck and good hunting :)

[petrat]

I know second-hand may not appeal, but there are some good bargains to be had on this and other forums, most of which can be re-advertised with very little, if any, loss if you don't like them. Remember, yesterday's £800 item is tomorrow's £400 bargain. Some good advice here, too, from people with tons of experience.

If you liked the NAD, then keep an eye out for ones on the forums ... there isn't much difference between the different models over the last decade or so. If you like smaller speakers, I'd suggest these ....
http://www.signalshifi.com/deals/AE301.html

[Yomanze]

I'd agree I would think 91 up is needed to keep it real at low volumes, but reducing bass will allow the volume to go up a fair bit without bugging the rest of the family.

As a general guideline I would agree, but my Royd RR3s are 84db and one of the best speakers at low volumes I've heard. They certainly don't need to be turned up to "open up" like a lot of speakers do.

[Macca]

I agree sensitivity is not the whole story for low level listening. Sitting closer means you need a lot less volume. The loss is something like 9db per metre which is a lot. So a set of speakers rated for 90db at One metre will be 83 Db for one what at just two metres away. So you need 4 watts just to maintain 90db. That is loud of course but move back another metre and you now need 32 watts.

Might be an idea to get some speakers designed as bridge monitors and sit about six foot away. Will avoid the issues with the rest of the family and the speakers will be designed to be listened to that close, which many tyoes are not.

[Kung fu dog]

Secondhand is fine. Infact I probably look there first and only buy new as a last resort. People seem to have a lot of love for tannoy speakers. Also monitors over speakers although I don't really know the difference.
I do only sit about 8ft from each speaker maybe a little less .

[walpurgis]

People seem to have a lot of love for tannoy speakers. Also monitors over speakers although I don't really know the difference.

Some people hate Tannoys. Many here love what they can do. I've used them almost exclusively for over half a lifetime. There are some iffy examples, but good ones can do things in a way I've simply not heard elsewhere. There are members here who could blow your mind with their Tannoys (me included, shame you're not nearer).

A monitor is just a speaker, like any other. All the label means is that it may have been intended for professional use. i.e., monitoring music for instance in a recording studio. A monitor isn't necessarily a better speaker. Some speakers just have nonsense monitor titles.

[struth]

Nearfield monitors are for close up listening

[DSJR]

You have loads of Hifi dealers in and around Norwich, so surely ONE of them could suggest a good £800's worth:(

Option one from tried and tested DSJR knowledge -

Rega Brio R and see if there's a deal to be had on any remaining RS1's. The amp is a great general purpose model, still great value overall and the speakers are descended and derived from the better fast,clean and clear style of 80's speakers.

Option 2 from out on the edge - and I do have a sort-of vested interest -

NVA AP20 at £300 currently. Absolute bloody bargain and it DOES sound better than a Brio R. It needs their speaker cables (I dunno, LS1?) which is no big deal as they are at least as good as the best of their competition (Talk 3 for example, not cheap QED sh*t) but low level listening is an absolute dream as there's no grain at all or bass-bloat and the midrange of all of them is absolutely sublime! Speakers could be almost anything you like as this amp drives 'porty 'BBC' boom boxes' like my LS5/9's as well as the recommended RS1 type (or any vintage Royd in good working order :)) If you buy mail order, there is a no quibble sale-or-return option, so you won't lose out if you don't like them! Although their interconnects finish off the system, I use anything that comes to hand and the here-recommended Klotz types are just fine!!!!!!! I do make certain NVA products for them, but I really am trying to be fair here and for the price, you won't find anything NEW that comes remotely close if musical enjoyment/emotional connection is the main thing...

I need to hear some of the popular new speakers at £200 again, such as Q Acoustics and Epos if they have anything at this price. metal cones are a no-no for me as they ALL resonate like tuned oil-drums in the mid treble and even an expensive sharp crossover can't fix it completely, a shiny 'HiFi' kind of sound seems to remain on most of them I've found. Some of the Wharfedale Diamond models look to be fine in a basic sense too.

Some mid period Tannoys are horrible, the c2000 mercury models being as dull as ditchwater and nothing like the sharper tones of previous baby models. Some of the old pro models used to be amazing, the original Mercury based PBM1's being amazing if I have the model right (grey finish, but the thing weighed far more than the domestic model and was as clear as a bell).

The current baby KEF models (below the LS50) also have a great reputation, but see how the music 'flows' at low levels. A clean 'high fidelity' quality is one thing, but does it stir the emotions?

The last time I heard B&W 685's, I found them 'hollow' sounding, with a very slight boom-tizz balance. This 'loudness switch' tone may well favour low level listening though...

Apologies for going on yet again - it's a habit of mine :( Try to find a dem situation where you can relax for half an hour or more and just play some music. if you can get down below the A14, our very own and old friend hifi dave will happily try to help you find a good sound for your budget.

[twotone]

I'd agree I would think 91 up is needed to keep it real at low volumes, but reducing bass will allow the volume to go up a fair bit without bugging the rest of the family.

My Harbeths were brilliant at low level listening Grant, they have a sensitivity of about 83db I think.

[struth]

Sure there are some drivers that are easy to drive irrellevent of their sensitivity, but most low sensitive speakers like some current up em. impedance is also a factor.

[twotone]

Sure there are some drivers that are easy to drive irrellevent of their sensitivity, but most low sensitive speakers like some current up em. impedance is also a factor.

Aye think the impedance of the Harbeths makes them easy to drive, six ohms I think?

[struth]

My new builds are 2.8 ohm nominal on the meter, and 95db nominal. but mostly they will be 5 ohm and over 100db. a baby could drive em:) Its the best thing I ever did tbh and the latest pair are not to shabby either, although are a nominal 12 ohm(wont stay that way I'd hazard a guess). dont know their db rating but would think they are over 92. another easy load.. Gazjam@s Edingtines or however you spell them, are amazing. with a lowly amptastic amp the go really loud and sound fantabidozy. I had one of those amps and my speakers were, at the time not an easy load, although over 90db and it just did not cut the mustard at all.

[Yomanze]

Kung Fu Dog, there's a lovely pair of Royd Abbots for sale on HiFi Wigwam for under £200. Put in an NVA amp (great match with Royd speakers) as Dave suggested, or look out for a Sony ES integrated, and even have change for a DAC and you have sound that people who have spent more than £800 might wince at. ;)