£50-£100 Cartridge advice please, new or old

[evozero]

Hi All,
I'm tying myself up in knots deciding on either a vintage or new budget cartridge.
I have an AT33PTG for proper usage, but need a cheaper cartridge while i service my main turntables and as a backup.

I own a Grado prestige gold, didn't inspire me and not willing to replace a damaged stylus.
A ortofon vms20 and recently 2m red, not enough sound quality.

I have a number of turntables and arms, mostly from the 80s. Pioneer PL-50 with straight and S shaped arm tubes, Thorens td321 with Linn Basik plus and Rega RB250 (not in use) DIY TT with VPI platter and SME SIII arm.

I want to enjoy Vinyl life without my MC cart, but not sure how to get there.
My thoughts are
Shure M3D or other V type

AT440MLA used
AT120e new
AT150MLX used

Shure M97XE new

Denon DL103,110,160 etc

Nagaoka MP-110 New

Any suggestions or carts for sale
Many Thanks
Ian

[walpurgis]

ADC 10E Mk.IV or ADC XLM III. They are the business!

[struth]

Both the denons(110 & 160) are good as well. Should get a good second hand one easy for that

[Clive197]

ADC 10E Mk.IV or ADC XLM III. They are the business!

Yes they are, so long as you use a very low mass arm.

[walpurgis]

Yes they are, so long as you use a very low mass arm.

They are less arm critical than most people think.

[Barry]

I have an ADC 10E Mk.IV I'm thinking of selling.

In your Linn LVV arm, the calculated arm/cartridge resonance will be 6Hz, which is too low. In your SME III arm, the resonant frequency will be 7.9Hz (undamped) and ~ 9.4Hz damped, which will be fine.

[Marco]

Happy 11,000th post, Barry! :thumbsup:

Marco.

[Barry]

Happy 11,000th post, Barry! :thumbsup:

Marco.

Thank you Marco. :)

[walpurgis]

I have an ADC 10E Mk.IV I'm thinking of selling.

In your Linn LVV arm, the calculated arm/cartridge resonance will be 6Hz, which is too low. In your SME III arm, the resonant frequency will be 7.9Hz (undamped) and ~ 9.4Hz damped, which will be fine.

I used a 10E Mk.IV in an Acos Lustre arm which is higher mass than the LV-V and had no problems strangely enough.

(11,000 posts. Nice! :))

[evozero]

Thanks for the replies,
Any opinions on the Shure M3D or Grace 9E?

Barry would you let me know the details of the one for sale?

Cheers
Ian

[walpurgis]

Thanks for the replies,
Any opinions on the Shure M3D or Grace 9E?

Barry would you let me know the details of the one for sale?

Cheers
Ian


I've not owned the Grace F9E, but most users appear to hold it in high regard. It has a reputation as one of the finest MMs.

I have had a few M3Ds come my way and moved them on quickly. They were just about the cheapest MM available back in the sixties/seventies, selling at around £3. I would not entertain using one, but some people like them.

[Macca]

The Nagaoka is good for the money. Nags are a sweet balance between ballsy/subtle and romantic/clinical. If that's what you want.

[rubber duck]

I'm still using my Shure M97xE and have no inclination to change. You may have seen this previously: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?32213-Shure-97xE-Cartridge-views&highlight=M97Xe

[Barry]

Thanks for the replies,
Any opinions on the Shure M3D or Grace 9E?

Barry would you let me know the details of the one for sale?

Cheers
Ian

The Shure M3D was my first cartridge (bought because I was unable to procure a B&O SP6/7 at the time), was OK (because I didn't know any different) and was quickly replaced with a Shure M55E. Now that was an improvement. There is a big following for the M3D, especially in Japan. Can't see it myself.

The Grace F9E is a fine cartridge, but Grace themselves are no longer in business, so replacement stylii could be a problem.

Agree concerning Nagaoka cartridges.

I'll put up some photos shortly of the ADC 10E Mk. II in a FS post, after I have carefully inspected the condition of the stylus. I'll only be wanting £20 for it.

[walpurgis]

I'll put up some photos shortly of the ADC 10E Mk. II in a FS post, after I have carefully inspected the condition of the stylus. I'll only be wanting £20 for it.

I'd like that for my ADC collection if you've nobody else in mind Barry. I doubt many here have arms that it will be properly happy in.

[Barry]

Oops! That should have read ADC 10E Mk. IV. Still a fine cartridge, and the only reason for selling is because I have three of them (as well as two ADC 25 cartridge systems + full set of replacement stylii).

Apologies for the typo! :o

[walpurgis]

Oops! That should have read ADC 10E Mk. IV. Still a fine cartridge, and the only reason for selling is because I have three of them (as well as two ADC 25 cartridge systems + full set of replacement stylii).

Apologies for the typo! :o

Still interested. :)

[Barry]

I've not owned the Grace F9E, but most users appear to hold it in high regard. It has a reputation as one of the finest MMs.

I have had a few M3Ds come my way and moved them on quickly. They were just about the cheapest MM available back in the sixties/seventies, selling at around £3. I would not entertain using one, but some people like them.

I think I paid ~ £7 for my M3D in 1969.

[Barry]

Still interested. :)

OK - I'll try and put up some photos this weekend.

[walpurgis]

I think I paid ~ £7 for my M3D in 1969.

From memory. I believe it's listed in my 1971 G.W.Smith catalogue (which I got from there back then) at just under £4 (could be wrong though. I'll check tomorrow).

[struth]

Probably a days work in 1970 for many.... so about £70 today, or the price of an ortofon red.

[Barry]

From memory. I believe it's listed in my 1971 G.W.Smith catalogue (which I got from there back then) at just under £4 (could be wrong though. I'll check tomorrow).

You could well be right - it was a long time ago (and in the words of The Fast Show: " I was very, very drunk"). :lol:

Whatever I paid, it would have been similar to, or slightly less than, what was being asked for a B&O SP6 at the time (when I was an impecunious undergraduate).

[walpurgis]

From memory. I believe it's listed in my 1971 G.W.Smith catalogue (which I got from there back then) at just under £4 (could be wrong though. I'll check tomorrow).

Just checked. The M3D-M was £4.12 in 1971, so I wasn't far out.

[Barry]

Just checked. The M3D-M was £4.12 in 1971, so I wasn't far out.

According to my 1971 HiFi Year Book, the Shure M3D-M was £6 (plus £1 8s 3d PT) or ~ £7.41. Either way it was inexpensive.

However, I wish I had been able to get the B&O SP6/7 that I wanted at the time (£8.25). I now have one, bought from eBay for £5, fitted it into an SME S2 headshell on an SME 3009 arm. Sounds quite good, though the treble is pretty 'untidy'. Not bad for a 40 year old entry-level design; sadly I no longer have the M3D with which to compare the two.

http://rs780.pbsrc.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/163.jpg~c200 http://rs780.pbsrc.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/001-2.jpg~c200

[walpurgis]

I have the 1971 Hi-Fi Year Book as well. Didn't look in that.

There was an M7D as well in the sixties. Never got my hands on one though.

[Barry]

Yours for £60:

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/174000367/shure-m7d-original-cartridge-vintage-60s

http://cdn.shure.com/user_guide/upload/1023/us_pro_m7d_ug.pdf

[walpurgis]

Yours for £60:

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/174000367/shure-m7d-original-cartridge-vintage-60s

http://cdn.shure.com/user_guide/upload/1023/us_pro_m7d_ug.pdf

No. I'll stick with old ADCs as my MM option when I'm not using MCs.

Talking of which. If the 10E Mk.IV is available, wear to the diamond tip would not matter as I have a brand new original stylus tucked away.

[evozero]

HI all,
Barry I sent you a PM re the ADC cart, will probably work well with the SMEIII.
I would need one with a good stylus, or maybe you would part with another model?


Im not going to consider the M3D anymore, or the M7D.

Any other ideas?

Many Thanks
Ian

[walpurgis]

Ha Ha. Put you off the M3D did I. Probably did you a favour. If Barry is offering the ADC 10E. Mk.IV, you naturally have first dibs. :)

[evozero]

Ha Ha. Put you off the M3D did I. Probably did you a favour. If Barry is offering the ADC 10E. Mk.IV, you naturally have first dibs. :)

LOL, you did put me off.
Thanks for being a gent.
Cheers
Ian

[Barry]

Hi Ian,

Here as promised are some photos of the ADC 10E Mk. IV. There are a couple of things you should know:

First, the identification plate on the underside of the cartridge is missing. I’m not sure how this happened; I might have removed it myself in an attempt to reduce mass. But it is a 10E Mk. IV, as the label on the front of the cartridge body shows.

http://rs780.pbsrc.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/023_zpsovmlqdwy.jpg~c200?t=1439568994 http://rs780.pbsrc.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/022_zps8jnflph8.jpg~c200?t=1439568994

Second, I do not have the original packaging, but the cartridge will be safely packed.


The condition of the stylus is very good, as I hope the following photos show.

http://rs780.pbsrc.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/021_zpsyrpdfwbq.jpg~c200?t=1439568994 http://rs780.pbsrc.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/016_zpsnegscvro.jpg~c200?t=1439569680 http://rs780.pbsrc.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/015_zpske1jfjlg.jpg~c200?t=1439569799 http://rs780.pbsrc.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/020_zpsenz8t3d7.jpg~c200?t=1439569799

I have used the cartridge sucessfully in an SME 3009 II/S2 arm, with light damping and more recently in a Breuer Dynamic 5A arm, without damping. It should work very well in your SME III arm.


So if you are interested, send me a PM and we’ll exchange details.

Regards
Barry

[walpurgis]

That diamond tip looks excellent. Go for it Ian. If you've never heard an ADC, you won't believe how good these sound. As Barry says, the SME III should suit.