View Full Version : Analogue vs Digital recordings.
An interesting comparison was made during Firebottle's visit with a Dave Brubeck recording of Take Five. Alan had this as a 24bit recording played back via DVD. I have this in all its original analogue glory.
We listened to one particular track and did an A B comparison. The Vinyl/ analogue recording was simple far superior in almost every way but in particular in how real the music/Instruments sounded.
Would anyone like to mention any other recordings they have heard on Vinyl that simply trounced the digital version (24bit/ CD/ DSD or ripped CD) or indeed vice versa where the digital recording trounced the vinyl?
Gordon Steadman
10-08-2015, 12:36
Fleetwood Mac Rumours. I find the CD almost unlistenable.
I have Time Out on both Vinyl and CD and agree that I would rather listen to the LP
The Dave Brubeck would have been tinkered with from one format to another - sad but true,
Rumours is a funny one - please bear with me. It's my view that US artists need to have their vinyl work heard from US pressings, or at least US metalwork (as was the first Tracy Chapman LP when first released). My vinyl copy of Rumours is/was a UK pressing and sounded dull and boring. Only Stevie Nicks saved it back in the day (:eyebrows:) - a typical dry and dull multi-track mix to me. My original CD copy sounds the same - horrible, but the (green cover) Greatest Hits compilation sounded much better on the tracks they used. I believe a few attempts have been made to soup-up this production, but the latest CD issue I have on FLAC (Thanks Alex_UK) sounds ok, but to me, nothing special. The MUSIC to me, is another matter entirely though :)
Typical commercial CD players used to bleach the sound out a good bit and it wasn't until I heard a really good Top End player in the late 80's that I realised that there's absolutely nothing wrong with CD Red Book as a format. Up until around ten years or so ago, most CD players under a couple of grand lost out in some way - in my 'then' experience. In the same way, I find a heck of a lot of vinyl sounds too soft and 'filtered' for my taste, but it's a long time since I had the Mentor/Microscanner at home, and this sounded totally devastating on all the LP's I played on it..
Just to throw another spanner in. I heard the NVA Cubix pro speakers in full 'three stack' glory on Saturday. RD had his lovely Sony DAC in use, fed via his laptop and a £20 USB to SPDIF converter. I've NEVER heard You Tube sound so good, the sound being utterly musical, clear and with bags of real atmosphere on the live recordings he played me.
So to finish, please be careful of fixed ideas on analogue-digital-hi res as such, until you've heard the best that these formats can offer. In my case, I have to be careful what I say about vinyl as I need to keep reminding myself just how good it can be. Releases over several formats will probably have been doctored in various ways with each mastering - for commercial reasons remember...
Hi Dave,
Rumours is a funny one - please bear with me. It's my view that US artists need to have their vinyl work heard from US pressings, or at least US metalwork (as was the first Tracy Chapman LP when first released). My vinyl copy of Rumours is/was a UK pressing and sounded dull and boring. Only Stevie Nicks saved it back in the day (:eyebrows:) - a typical dry and dull multi-track mix to me. My original CD copy sounds the same - horrible...
I completely agree! Sonically, the album is an abomination, and typical of many of the studio albums of that period - as if the producers and/or band were deliberately trying to create a 'manufactured sound', rather than just accurately record, musically, what happened in the studio.
Some Steely Dan albums are like that too, and it does my nut in.. Thankfully, the quality of the music redeems the situation!
Typical commercial CD players used to bleach the sound out a good bit and it wasn't until I heard a really good Top End player in the late 80's that I realised that there's absolutely nothing wrong with CD Red Book as a format. Up until around ten years or so ago, most CD players under a couple of grand lost out in some way - in my 'then' experience.
Indeed - there isn't a lot wrong with Red Book CD, done well. The problem is, doing the format proper justice, which sadly is beyond the capabilities of most reasonably priced modern players.
In the same way, I find a heck of a lot of vinyl sounds too soft and 'filtered' for my taste, but it's a long time since I had the Mentor/Microscanner at home, and this sounded totally devastating on all the LP's I played on it..
We've been here before, mate. Given a good recording, vinyl, done well [there's that key phrase again], should NEVER sound "soft"! :nono: And you don't need a Decca to appreciate that. Indeed, I'm reminded of that fact every day when I compare both CD and vinyl done well, on my equally sonically capable T/T and CD player! ;)
Marco.
P.S We'll (all of us) have to decide whether this thread topic revolves around music or hi-fi, which in turn will determine whether it 'lives' here or in Blank Canvas.
ZZ Top - Deguello - the CD sounds flat and frankly crap. The vinyl LP (not sure which pressing it is) sounds fantastic by comparison. Didn't believe it the first time, thought there was something wrong. But no. It's a huge difference too.
If you listen to Frank Sinatra at the Sands as an example you can see the difference. digitally remastered sounds ok but go to the original vinyl which is all analogue it just sounds so right. Thats not to say that digital music cannot sound as good but it needs to have been designed from the start that way to get the best out of it. not heard many 60 s recordings that sound better on cd than the original vinyl
I was hoping to get answers purely based on the music. I think we have all been down the analogue/ digital technical route many times.
I am looking for strong recommendations for further adding to my vinyl collection but that is not to say there are some great digital recordings out there too!
Heard U2 Joshua tree on vinyl for the first time recently. It was as bad as the CD! What a shame as there is great
Music in there somewhere!
If you listen to Frank Sinatra at the Sands as an example you can see the difference. digitally remastered sounds ok but go to the original vinyl which is all analogue it just sounds so right. Thats not to say that digital music cannot sound as good but it needs to have been designed from the start that way to get the best out of it. not heard many 60 s recordings that sound better on cd than the original vinyl
Yup, +1! :)
Marco.
most of the top jazz titles like Ellington. Fitzgerald. simone and all the new Sinatra ones are superb on 180 or 200 in the case of Masterpieces which is possibly the best ive heard.
female vocals. wallflower from D Krall and Nostalgia from Annie Lennox are both better than the cd(dunno why). all nina simone lps are much better too...think they are analogue
Hi Jim,
I was hoping to get answers purely based on the music. I think we have all been down the analogue/ digital technical route many times.
I am looking for strong recommendations for further adding to my vinyl collection but that is not to say there are some great digital recordings out there too!
No worries. That'll be far more interesting than the usual (somewhat tiresome) 'Analogue vs. Digital' hi-fi debates! :thumbsup:
Let's ensure then that's how the thread pans out.
Marco.
ZZ Top - Deguello - the CD sounds flat and frankly crap. The vinyl LP (not sure which pressing it is) sounds fantastic by comparison. Didn't believe it the first time, thought there was something wrong. But no. It's a huge difference too.
A lot of the early ZZ Top recordings were "remastered" with new drum tracks. I wouldn't be surprised if the engineers messed around with something else at the same time. So I think everything up to "Eliminator" is far superior on vinyl, as long as you have the initial releases.
But...to try to contribute to this thread...a lot of the new (pricey) Blue Note 45 RPM releases are pretty fantastic, if you like that particular brand of jazz. My favorites are 'Blues Walk' by Lou Donaldson, 'Workout' by Hank Mobley, and 'Green Street' by Grant Green.
Also, the original release of 'All Mod Cons' by the Jam is much better than any digital release I've heard of it.
Also, the first four or five Ry Cooder albums are much better on vinyl.
I'll stop now... :)
Audio Al
10-08-2015, 17:16
Joan Armatrading self titled is pants on CD and mind blowingly good on vinyl :)
Stratmangler
10-08-2015, 17:16
A lot of the early ZZ Top recordings were "remastered" with new drum tracks. I wouldn't be surprised if the engineers messed around with something else at the same time. So I think everything up to "Eliminator" is far superior on vinyl, as long as you have the initial releases.
All the pre Eliminator albums with the exception of Degüello were given the remix and remaster treatment and released in the ZZ Top 6 pack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Pack_%28ZZ_Top_album%29
Warner Bros then removed all the original mixes from general sale.
I had a copy of 6 Pack once - it got moved on.
Thankfully the original mixes have seen the light of day again http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Complete-Studio-Albums-1970-1990/dp/B00CQGU9GG
All the pre Eliminator albums with the exception of Degüello were given the remix and remaster treatment and released in the ZZ Top 6 pack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Pack_%28ZZ_Top_album%29
Warner Bros then removed all the original mixes from general sale.
I had a copy of 6 Pack once - it got moved on.
Thankfully the original mixes have seen the light of day again http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Complete-Studio-Albums-1970-1990/dp/B00CQGU9GG
I didn't realize the original mixes were available on CD. Thanks! Now I know where my CD budget for this month is going... :)
A lot of the early ZZ Top recordings were "remastered" with new drum tracks. I wouldn't be surprised if the engineers messed around with something else at the same time. So I think everything up to "Eliminator" is far superior on vinyl, as long as you have the initial releases.
But...to try to contribute to this thread...a lot of the new (pricey) Blue Note 45 RPM releases are pretty fantastic, if you like that particular brand of jazz. My favorites are 'Blues Walk' by Lou Donaldson, 'Workout' by Hank Mobley, and 'Green Street' by Grant Green.
Also, the original release of 'All Mod Cons' by the Jam is much better than any digital release I've heard of it.
Also, the first four or five Ry Cooder albums are much better on vinyl.
I'll stop now... :)
Agree very much regarding Ry Cooder - amazing stuff on vinyl especially Paris Texas!
The Black Adder
10-08-2015, 17:38
I guess we have to realise the reason why CD was so popular back in the 1980's. CD answered that awkwardness of vinyl perfectly, some compared vinyl and cd back in the day and said that CD sounded better because it didn't have the pops n clicks. Rather one track in that sense but I suppose that was the sales hook. And what a good one.
I have to admit, the olde first generation CD players can still knock the socks off some/most modern days units. I suppose cd player/DAC tech back then were using vinyl as a 'first generation' benchmark. I wonder if anyone uses vinyl as a bench mark in the R&D of a CDP or DAC? - I can only imagine that companies (Like Naim for example) compare with other (and their own) digital units to which IMO is fruitless to say the least.
The only thing I've heard come close to vinyl is my current Pi/Dac. But it's still a bit too 'clean'.
Whilst digital is always trying to impress, Vinyl just happens.
Big Sigur Ros fan and been enjoying their albums on digital for years.
Then I heard the vinyl...holy hell. :eek:
So much better, warmth emotion epic soundscapes, just a LOT better.
Originally only looking for their album "Takk", but that goes for hundreds of squids so looked on forumland what my options were.
Their "Frozen Sea" box-set has the first three albums and exclusive EP, and has by far the best mastering (according to the guys at Steve Hoffman forums)...so sourced a clean copy of that from Discogs.
Whenever I'm buying vinyl now I look on the Steve Hoffman forums for the album I'm wanting. 9 times out of 10 there's a discussion on best pressing, mastering etc.
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/forums/music-corner.2/
Maybe not as simple as saying "vinyl is better" I'd say, different masterings and pressings of the same album can sound quite different?
Stratmangler
10-08-2015, 17:54
I didn't realize the original mixes were available on CD. Thanks! Now I know where my CD budget for this month is going... :)
They have been remastered, so they're not entirely unmolested.
They haven't had the heavy handed treatment of the ZZTop 6 Pack.
They have been remastered, so they're not entirely unmolested.
They haven't had the heavy handed treatment of the ZZTop 6 Pack.
I'll settle for the original drum tracks :)
Whilst digital is always trying to impress, Vinyl just happens.
Amen. (Just now listening to "Neil Young Greatest Hits" on vinyl).
Hi Jim,
No worries. That'll be far more interesting than the usual (somewhat tiresome) 'Analogue vs. Digital' hi-fi debates! :thumbsup:
Let's ensure then that's how the thread pans out.
Marco.
Hi Marco,
I am also aware that a lot of vinyl is certainly mastered from digital recordings but somehow translate very well once they have been played via a vinyl/analogue system.
Do you remember how good Alans R2R digital stuff sounded on tape at NEBO5:)
Anyway it will be certainly interesting to hear from folk comparisons of the same recording,even though the mastering may be different (accepted), and which version of the recording they think sounds best.
PS When are we going to have a bake off with my VPI Belter against the mighty techy?:)
I guess we have to realise the reason why CD was so popular back in the 1980's. CD answered that awkwardness of vinyl perfectly, some compared vinyl and cd back in the day and said that CD sounded better because it didn't have the pops n clicks. Rather one track in that sense but I suppose that was the sales hook. And what a good one.
I have to admit, the olde first generation CD players can still knock the socks off some/most modern days units. I suppose cd player/DAC tech back then were using vinyl as a 'first generation' benchmark. I wonder if anyone uses vinyl as a bench mark in the R&D of a CDP or DAC? - I can only imagine that companies (Like Naim for example) compare with other (and their own) digital units to which IMO is fruitless to say the least.
The only thing I've heard come close to vinyl is my current Pi/Dac. But it's still a bit too 'clean'.
Whilst digital is always trying to impress, Vinyl just happens.
Hi Joe, thats a very good way of putting it.:)
Good to see some other 'Top fans on here :)
Got everything up to and including Recyycler on vinyl, the cd was a gift. What's been said about the the mastering I didn't know until now.
PS When are we going to have a bake off with my VPI Belter against the mighty techy?:)
Lol - let's wait until the summer hols are over, as I'm a busy boy at the moment, with that and various other things. Ping me a reminder in October, dude, and we'll defo sort out a sesh :cool:
Marco.
Stratmangler
10-08-2015, 22:13
Good to see some other 'Top fans on here :)
Got everything up to and including Recyycler on vinyl, the cd was a gift. What's been said about the the mastering I didn't know until now.
There were some serious crimes against mixing and mastering committed on CD in the name of Billy G and The Boys.
Thankfully those lapses in good taste have been brushed under the carpet .... :eyebrows:
julesd68
12-08-2015, 21:17
If you listen to Frank Sinatra at the Sands as an example you can see the difference. digitally remastered sounds ok but go to the original vinyl which is all analogue it just sounds so right. Thats not to say that digital music cannot sound as good but it needs to have been designed from the start that way to get the best out of it. not heard many 60 s recordings that sound better on cd than the original vinyl
Which copy of the vinyl do you have Grant?
I would have liked the MOFI edition that everyone raves about but it has been deleted for a while now ...
julesd68
12-08-2015, 21:21
Sonically, the album is an abomination, and typical of many of the studio albums of that period - as if the producers and/or band were deliberately trying to create a 'manufactured sound', rather than just accurately record, musically, what happened in the studio.
I know a lot of people are down on Rumours from a sound quality point of view, but I recently bought a UK first pressing (textured sleeve / WB Burbank label) and was actually very pleasantly suprised with the sq!
Which copy of the vinyl do you have Grant?
I would have liked the MOFI edition that everyone raves about but it has been deleted for a while now ...
Think its the original US press..1961 I think. nice condition and been stored well. Not heard the 200gm reissue. I think Marco has it.
julesd68
12-08-2015, 21:25
Must be difficult to get a good copy of that now but I'll have a look around ...
Lol - let's wait until the summer hols are over, as I'm a busy boy at the moment, with that and various other things. Ping me a reminder in October, dude, and we'll defo sort out a sesh :cool:
Marco.
Will do. Cheers Marco.:cool:
I know a lot of people are down on Rumours from a sound quality point of view, but I recently bought a UK first pressing (textured sleeve / WB Burbank label) and was actually very pleasantly suprised with the sq!
Sure, I can go with that. The same applies to Steely Dan albums, particularly if you can get a Porky pressing. However, Rumours will never be a statement of vinyl audiophile quality!
Marco.
julesd68
12-08-2015, 21:48
Sure, I can go with that. The same applies to Steely Dan albums, particularly if you can get a Porky pressing. However, Rumours will never be a statement of vinyl audiophile quality!
Marco.
Maybe 'Rumours' has got synergy with my system ... LOL. :eyebrows:
Going back to the OP and Dave Brubeck - I also recently bought an old Brubeck 'Greatest Hits' comp on vinyl and apart from one duff track it sounds astonishingly good ...
daytona600
14-08-2015, 19:52
Which copy of the vinyl do you have Grant?
I would have liked the MOFI edition that everyone raves about but it has been deleted for a while now ...
sold my last couple of copies recently & with all deleted Mofis they get very expensive
last new one i saw went for £1150 recently
sold my last couple of copies recently & with all deleted Mofis they get very expensive
last new one i saw went for £1150 recently
If you look on discogs, an original press may come along. They were well recorded in the day. think there was a reissue done in late 60's too
there's one on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Frank-Sinatra-Live-At-The-Sands-2-LP-Reprise-Reissue-Vinyl-EX-NM-Count-Basie-/381359532836?hash=item58caccab24
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