High powered amp with 98/99db speakers?

[The Black Adder]

Hi all.

This is just a rambling thought.

As most know, I use Tannoy Monitor Gold speakers which are very sensitive indeed.

One thing I've never tried with these speakers is a high powered transistor amp. For example, Chord, Quad QMP, Densen.

What got me thinking was looking through my history of kit and wondered what bits of my olde kit would sound like through my 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds?

An idle thought but an interesting one.

Two bits of my old kit was a Densen DM-10 and a Chord SPA600. Although the Densen is only 75wpc it's still higher than anything I've used with these speakers.

Thoughts?

Why are valves always in favour with these speakers? I've used a small digital amp with them and it was surprisingly good.

So what does one look for in a transistor amp that has a correlation in specs with a valve amp? - Or is it all witchcraft?

[struth]

think my full rangers are nominal 95 and real at times over 100db and im using monos that at 4 ohms produce over 300 watts. these are 3ohm nominal rising to 5/6 i guess depending. sound fantastic although i can not really get past 4 on the dial without some hearing damage lol
or speaker damage as they are nominally 10 watt i think

[The Black Adder]

Thanks Grant. Interesting

Maybe you could decrease the sensitivity of the pre to give more headroom? You see, that would wind me up, lol... I like to move the control a bit and not have my ears bleed. lol

[struth]

I could turn the pre down tbh but as i have vcs on the monos just use them. in comparison my kefs are 91db and at same setting the monos vcs are at 7

edit...as im really having my first listen to these i have tried turning the tvc down a notch. it is actually better ..only had to turn up the monos a fraction to get same but more sweetened output.

[wee tee cee]

I thought along similar lines. Ive settled on 4 temple mono blocks driving my speakers but have in my toy cupboard a pair of valve mono blocks and some solid state amps.

I bought a couple of Berhinger a500s to have as a big solid state amps just to experiment as per your line of thinking-loads of grunt and an impressive spec sheet but doesn't tend to stay plugged in for long.

Jerry (Jandl) Has tried quiet a few studio amps with sensitive speakers with interesting results-might be worth a search...

[The Black Adder]

Thanks guys.

Hi Tony. That's interesting, I was looking at the Bantam mono's not so long back via a link on here somewhere.

[Ali Tait]

I could turn the pre down tbh but as i have vcs on the monos just use them. in comparison my kefs are 91db and at same setting the monos vcs are at 7

edit...as im really having my first listen to these i have tried turning the tvc down a notch. it is actually better ..only had to turn up the monos a fraction to get same but more sweetened output.

I'd experiment more with that - altering the volume on the TVC will change impedances, so with a bit of fiddling you should find the sound you like best.

[DSJR]

The main issue I think in using very powerful solid state amps would be noise from some and maybe highly efficient speakers might magnify any sonic-degrading distortions at low levels. Having said that, I think most decent amps these days have vanishingly low distortion at very low levels and back in the good old days, Quad 303's and 405's were routinely used with old Tannoys and by todays standards, these dearly loved old things (especially the 303's) aren't the quietest or the least distorted of amps.

System gain is another matter and power doesn't come into this I think. A Quad 606 and its further refined descendants should be fine and quite happy with Tannoys I think.

[struth]

I'd experiment more with that - altering the volume on the TVC will change impedances, so with a bit of fiddling you should find the sound you like best.

will do Ali..cheers.. they are amazing for 10watt speakers. and will improve once the added deadning is in i think cancelling the 180 phase

[Ali Tait]

Aye, there are some very nice vintage drivers about.

[walpurgis]

I'm pretty sure the Monitor Gold is not 98/99 db sensitivity. More like 92 maybe, depending on model, I'd have thought.

Anyway, if you want a beefy SS amp with the right sort of character, this might do: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electrocompaniet-AW120-DMB-Class-A-balanced-dual-mono-power-amplifier-/161745708534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item25a8cba5f6

Usher also do a decent Class A unit that should be nice.

My Tannoys sound wonderful driven by Class A solid state.

I use a TVC pre-amp too.

[struth]

23 - 20,000Hz
92dB
5W
8Ω (5Ω min.)
2" Aluminium Dome Compression Driver
15" Paper Diaphragm
26Hz
1000Hz
10kg (each driver)


1968
£1,300 to £1,800 (for a pair of drivers & crossovers)

[struth]

quite some price for the day...had no idea what they would be tbh. 92 is the same as my dc's...must be pretty standard across the range

[walpurgis]

Is that spec for Tannoy 15" Gold Grant?

No way did they cost that much in 1968. More like £200 apiece I'd guess.

[struth]

http://www.audionostalgia.co.uk/review_tannoy_monitor_gold_15.php

Thats what this says, although I have no idea how accurate it is not being in the market in 68 for anything bar pussy:eyebrows:

[The Black Adder]

don;t know where I got that from... lol :doh: I'll raise you and go with 94.8 as per Tannoy suggests for mine. But I also meant for any highly sensitive speaker I suppose.

[wee tee cee]

Jo,
The Temple monos are well worth a try. They are the best t amps out theyre IMHO-They give a valve like quality with solid state grunt. Just great music makers without making you listen to yer hi-fi if that makes sense.

An AOS member heard my system and commented how good the valves sounded....it was only when I pointed out the t amps were doing the business that he realised!!!!

[cloth-ears]

A re-chipped Quad 405-II is an excellent match for the big Tannoy’s. It has an internally adjustable voltage limiter that helps the bass/mid during transients and also part of the amps design keeps the tweeters from frying. The SNR is around -105db and distortion across the board is about 0.0025%

By anyone’s standards that’s pretty impressive. Certainly worth a listen

[petrat]

Well, I'm currently using a Nakamichi AV amp, with 4 of its 7 channels bi-amping my Canterburys.
100+ watts per driver on tap and vanishingly low noise. Quite impressive, actually. And good value. Used with a TVC pre-amp, it's extremely quiet, noise-wise (hum, hiss, etc) ... S/N = 107 dB down.

http://stylco-electronics.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/nakamichi-7-channel-power-amplifier

Post 124 here ... http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?25422-PetRat-HiFi/page3

[Ninanina]

I did have a Temple Bantam Gold for a while in my system, used with the Heresy's... didn't try it with the Tannoy's as I didn't own them at that time..

While I think the Bantam is superb value for money it just didn't grab me sonically..

I know I was comparing it to my then current, very good, SS integrated and the Oto which was probably not too fair but it left me a bit cold to be honest.. I think if you only have £190 to spend on a new amp then the Bantam would be a good choice but any further than that I think your money would be better spent elsewhere, on the used market of course

I now run my Tannoy's with the Oto and while people don't seem to recommend SET's with Tannoy's I love the combination... just perfect for my needs.. :)

[ff1d1l]

My bigger 811A Ureis are 98db/W efficient, and I use them with JVC Victor M-L10, which is supposed to be good for 160 WPC.
I've had all sorts of gear over the years, more than I can remember - stacked ESLs, Krell, Linn Bariks, JBL, big MF, Tannoy, Quad, Dynatron and Leak valves - this high powered amp/efficient speakers approach is the best sound I've achieved, by a considerable margin.

My smaller Urei 809 + Decca ribbons system is also very good - but I think these are not as efficient though, probably in the same ballpark as Tannoy MG's at a guess. They can be driven off the M-L10 too and are in the same room, so comparison is easy.

The 811A/M-L10 system excels in dynamics and authority, and I think this is the area where high efficiency speakers with a quantity of quality watts really score. Drums and percussion sound scarily real - most hi fi systems, you realise, are compromised in this respect. The Tannoy 12" MG I have in the living room system, and the smaller Urei 809's, while no slouches in this respect compared to many systems, do not pull off this duck-there's-someone-shooting-at-us trick with percussion the big Uries manage. And I'm forced to conclude the very high efficiency of the 811A's has everything to do with it. I should mention the lack of strain and feeling of headroom to spare to the sound, too, something you miss when its absent.

Lest I give the impression all subtlety is sacrificed on the altar of sonic fireworks, let me just say that when present on the recording this system does delicacy and depth, space and focus as well as anything I've ever owned.

If you're bored with the sound of your system as it stands, I can thoroughly recommend investigating what this approach may bring.

[Firebottle]

:interesting:

Good post Nial :)

[ff1d1l]

Thanks Alan!
Just in case anyone fancies trying Ureis - there's a pair on ebay at the moment. BUT...
I'll just say that after years of pro use they'll sound big - and very rough.

Mine differ from as they came in the following respects.
Cabinets reinforced and properly ported. Most of the fiberglass wadding removed.
All push connector joints now soldered (just about all connections are push connector, and all well oxidised by now).
Crossovers externally mounted - all fuses and bulbs bypassed, wire wound pots bypassed.

They must have sounded really good when new, but with so much deterioration from oxidised connections etc possible I don't wonder fashions in the studio world have moved on.

And as they were designed to be soffit mounted, using them hard into a corner is mandatory if you want low bass.

[petrat]

Yes, thought-provoking posts Nial. You have some interesting kit, too!

[ff1d1l]

Yes, thought-provoking posts Nial. You have some interesting kit, too!

Why thankyou....updated my sig to reflect recent changes!

[nekoni koban]

Is that spec for Tannoy 15" Gold Grant?

No way did they cost that much in 1968. More like £200 apiece I'd guess.

Tannoy 15" Monitor Gold 'Fifteen' were £43 each in 1972, 12" Monitor Gold 'Twelve' were £36, & the 10" Monitor Gold III LZ were £31 each.

Lancaster cabinets were either £63 each (for 12" drivers), or £69 each (for 15" drivers).

[walpurgis]

Tannoy 15" Monitor Gold 'Fifteen' were £43 each in 1972, 12" Monitor Gold 'Twelve' were £36, & the 10" Monitor Gold III LZ were £31 each.

I was robbed then. My pair of III LZs cost me £33 for each speaker (just the drive units) in 1972.

[nekoni koban]

Too late to get the £4 back...?


To complete the "if only I were transported back to 1972" fantasy... the big GRF Autograph was £390 for the complete pair (i.e. cabinets, drivers, crossovers).

[walpurgis]

A year or two later they were selling all the Monitor Gold models off cheaply to make way for the HPD series. I bought another pair of III LZs, this time in cabinets at the same £33 price. The Chatsworths with Monitor Golds were £44 apiece.