View Full Version : DAB - love it !!
After some messing about with FM tuners I bought a Cambridge Audio Azur 640T DAB/FM tuner for a bit less than half price a week or so ago.
Had a DAB/FM combi aerial installed for £95 a couple of days ago ...
RESULT!!
Can switch effortlessly between the same stations on DAB and FM and don't care what they say - thoroughly enjoying what CA have done to DAB with this tuner ... superb !!
After some messing about with FM tuners I bought a Cambridge Audio Azur 640T DAM/FM tuner for a bit less than half price a week or so ago.
Had a DAB/FM combi aerial installed for £95 a couple of days ago ...
RESULT!!
Can switch effortlessly between the same stations on DAB and FM and don't care what they say - thoroughly enjoying what CA have done to DAB with this tuner ... superb !!
Very much like garlic bread DAB is the sound of the future!!
....... and you can receive Radio 6...... works for me.
I *LOVE* having DAB in the car, but then one of the main design criteria for DAB was a single frequency network which meant that as you went travelling across the country you didn't have to keep retuning to your station due to the fact that adjacent transmitters had to work on different frequencies to avoid multipath distortion. Apart from my long drive down the A82 last week which was a rather large black spot, I very rarely get any signal drop outs, and yes 6Music is pretty much the only station I ever listen to these days, apart from the odd bit of Radio 4 occasionally.
At home though, it's internet radio all the way for me. It's unlikely to ever be an issue in the car, but DAB is still using old MPEG1 layer 2 compression, which isn't even as good as MP3 and at 128kbps which is what the majority of stations are broadcast at (apart from Radio 3 which is 192 AFAIK) so you're always going to hear artefacts, no matter how good the DSP processing of your DAB radio may be. With the new BBC streams online broadcast at 320kbps AAC now, it's night and day in terms of quality comparisons between that and DAB.
dantheman91
20-07-2015, 11:31
Still not as good as FM IMHO........
Very much like garlic bread DAB is the sound of the future!!
Heaven help us!
Very much like garlic bread DAB is the sound of the future!!
But what does this actually mean?
Gordon Steadman
20-07-2015, 13:41
Convenience is more important than sound quality obviously.
....... and you can receive Radio 6...... works for me.
Yep - well worth the extra mile .......
Still not as good as FM IMHO........
Would never claim that - but the difference is far less dramatic than some would have use believe
As I said, I can switch between FM and DAB with only a tiny delay so can make pretty much direct comparisons. There is a very slight loss of 'body' in the bass but certainly not a deal breaker. If needed I can restore that with a smidgeon more bass from my pre.
Convenience is more important than sound quality obviously.
That's a non-argument, I can use presets for FM or DAB so neither offers more 'convenience'. What I can access are stations not offered on FM, such as BBC Radio 6, which I listen to a lot.
As far as 'sound quality' the difference is minor and offset by DAB offering a definitely quieter signal on my other station of choice, BBC Radio 3. I have never had an FM tuner (including my Quad FM3) that was capable of cancelling signal hiss on 3 - which is really annoying when listening to classics with silent passages.
'Quality' is a relative concept and governed by a whole range of aspects.
With the new BBC streams online broadcast at 320kbps AAC now, it's night and day in terms of quality comparisons between that and DAB.
Not getting anything like that kind of quality from BBC streams on my Mac ... piss poor in fact. Would love to know how to improve that situation.
Gordon Steadman
20-07-2015, 14:27
That's a non-argument, I can use presets for FM or DAB so neither offers more 'convenience'. What I can access are stations not offered on FM, such as BBC Radio 6, which I listen to a lot.
As far as 'sound quality' the difference is minor and offset by DAB offering a definitely quieter signal on my other station of choice, BBC Radio 3. I have never had an FM tuner (including my Quad FM3) that was capable of cancelling signal hiss on 3 - which is really annoying when listening to classics with silent passages.
'Quality' is a relative concept and governed by a whole range of aspects.
I never, ever had hiss on FM when I lived in the UK. OK it needs a decent ariel and for DAB that appears to be less of a problem but ultimate sound quality remains the target for most on this forum I would have thought. There are still those that can't hear the difference between MP3 and others so it's hardly surprising that some will find DAB adequate. I admit I have not heard expensive DAB tuners but the ones I have heard have been flat and phasey. Exactly like compressed files do.
Maybe things have changed in the UK. Over here, the sound quality on FM, especially for the better classical stations is stunning.
The FM3 was not that sensitive and the FM4 which I still have was better. Over here it is fine. I have seven FM tuners at the mo. The Japanese ones are all silent and pull in anything. The one I use most is the Sugden tuner that goes with the old C51 pre amp. Sounds great and is hiss free. terribly inconvenient though, it has one of those dial things and no memory.
Gordon Steadman
20-07-2015, 14:31
Not getting anything like that kind of quality from BBC streams on my Mac ... piss poor in fact. Would love to know how to improve that situation.
BBC3 and 4 sound like they are being fed down a tube on the MAC it is true. Nice never the less to listen them now and again.:)
Do you use the BBC site or the radio widget via Dashboard?
Not getting anything like that kind of quality from BBC streams on my Mac ... piss poor in fact. Would love to know how to improve that situation.
I'm probably the wrong person to ask on that front as I consider the audio quality from Macs to be piss poor in general (whether from onboard sound or out to a DAC), but given that you've got the 'HD' streams from the BBC with a decent streamer & DAC I'd say that's pretty much as good as you're going to get these days, given that FM is only 13-bit digital and goes through an Optimod compressor anyway.
I never, ever had hiss on FM when I lived in the UK.
Neither do I - except on BBC3 which is really annoying :(
There are still those that can't hear the difference between MP3 and others so it's hardly surprising that some will find DAB adequate
Rest assured that I am quite capable of hearing the difference - and quality matters an awful lot to me !! I don't have any music on file in compressed formats at all.
Interestingly my 18 year old daughter can also hear the difference and is bowled over by the sound quality in my room. But she sticks with MP3 for convenience because her iPod is stuffed to the gunnels and compression is the only way she can have all her music on the move .....
Gordon Steadman
20-07-2015, 14:50
Neither do I - except on BBC3 which is really annoying :(
Rest assured that I am quite capable of hearing the difference - and quality matters an awful lot to me !! I don't have any music on file in compressed formats at all.
Interestingly my 18 year old daughter can also hear the difference and is bowled over by the sound quality in my room. But she sticks with MP3 for convenience because her iPod is stuffed to the gunnels and compression is the only way she can have all her music on the move .....
To be honest, I am not as bothered as I used to be. At 68, my ears are in no way as sensitive as they were. However Ronnie - the old bat - will not stay in the room when compressed audio is playing. We are a strange couple and actually enjoy listening together. Wimmin!
Audio Advent
20-07-2015, 17:17
DAB is OK if you only listen to the BBC stations.
Move away from the big money and you find stations like Amazing (which plays good music IMHO) are stuck in mono and at rates down to about 84kbps.
DAB is equivalent of assigning all small stations back to AM from FM stereo. It's overall a long step backwards, even if one or two stations sound good and "clear". All good and well for individuals who only listen to one or two or don't care about stereo even.
Also the choice of music on DAB is much too mainstream whilst picking up all sorts of pirate stations and art stations on FM is much much more enjoyable - that's all down to the limited frequency space, data rate or whatever and the beaucracy of how it is run. Forget DAB and go straight from FM over to internet streaming.. DAB in my opinion is completely unnecessary and a fleeting moment of technology which has already been surpassed.
DAB is OK if you only listen to the BBC stations.
That'll do me - and in blinding stereo!
Move away from the big money and you find stations like Amazing (which plays good music IMHO) are stuck in mono and at rates down to about 84kbps.
Haven't found 'Amazing' - what I have checked out has been stereo all the way
Also the choice of music on DAB is much too mainstream whilst picking up all sorts of pirate stations and art stations on FM is much much more enjoyable
Ah the bliss of living in London - Oop Norf we don't have such luxuries as 'art', just plenty of really mediocre local broadcasters, BBC and commercial, shovelling endless Dire Straits (and other such guff...)
Forget DAB and go straight from FM over to internet streaming..
Would love to - I tried Pi for this and was quite frankly very disappointed. See my comments above re. internet radio on my Mac (pure pants)
Very much like garlic bread DAB is the sound of the future!!
Garlic Bread !!! Garlic Bread !!! .. in my manse !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6tc4Xr2TM4
That'll do me - and in blinding stereo!
Haven't found 'Amazing' - what I have checked out has been stereo all the way
Ah the bliss of living in London - Oop Norf we don't have such luxuries as 'art', just plenty of really mediocre local broadcasters, BBC and commercial, shovelling endless Dire Straits (and other such guff...)
Would love to - I tried Pi for this and was quite frankly very disappointed. See my comments above re. internet radio on my Mac (pure pants)
Sound quality of internet radio is not great but I just love foreign stations, especially aussie stations and the yanks do some great blues stations.
Sound quality of internet radio is not great but I just love foreign stations, especially aussie stations and the yanks do some great blues stations.
Listening to 'the Stevie Wonder Story' on Beeb 6 at the moment (DAB) - loads of early tracks - lovely stuff !!!
Zoidburg
21-07-2015, 09:01
Yep - well worth the extra mile .......
6 music is just about the only station I listen to these days. the amount of new stuff its go me into is great but it also plays loads of just "good music" from throughout the decades.
Michael loves music
21-07-2015, 09:39
Have Cambridge audio ever made a good amp or tuner ? Richer sounds own brand with shocking build quality I've read online
Have Cambridge audio ever made a good amp or tuner ? Richer sounds own brand with shocking build quality I've read online
Never heard of this reputation for 'shocking build quality' and haven't read reviews of all their products but my tuner is most definitely well built and solidly housed despite being at the budget end of the market when launched.
There are a fair few very favourable reviews online but this one is from a Hi-Fi world group tuner test I read before looking for one, note the very positive comments on build quality (inside and out):
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/radio-tuners/76-radio-tuner-reviews/241-tuner-group-test-2.html?start=3
Incidentally, I have not had any problems at all reading the display from across the room despite this getting a negative from them. In fact I find the display pleasing unobtrusive compared to the overbright blue glare of others I've come across.
Michael loves music
21-07-2015, 13:14
That's good hope it lasts 25 years and going like my nad amp and tuner
Have Cambridge audio ever made a good amp or tuner ? Richer sounds own brand with shocking build quality I've read online
I have never had any problems with any of my Cambridge kit. The new 851 series have had nothing but praise for their build quality, and I can confirm that they are very solidly built, and the internals look like they have been well laid out with decent quality components. - don't believe all you read online!
Michael loves music
21-07-2015, 14:00
I'm sorry if I affended anyone yes I must not believe everything I read online indeed there has been many problems with the nad 320 bee amp etc ?? But my old 3020 keeps on going
amigarobbo
21-07-2015, 15:26
DABs sound quality not as good as FM, but DAB gives me Hancock's Half Hour and Round the Horne. Radio 4 FM gives me News, but first some news. Followed by Woman's Hour.
Musical output of Radio 6 compared to Radio 1 and 2?
Sorry, but Give me Convenience or death! Julian and Sandy over the Archers.
This has nothing to do with sound quality.
I'm sorry if I affended anyone yes I must not believe everything I read online indeed there has been many problems with the nad 320 bee amp etc ?? But my old 3020 keeps on going
New Acoustic Dimensions do have a reputation of being somewhat unreliable.
DABs sound quality not as good as FM, but DAB gives me Hancock's Half Hour and Round the Horne. Radio 4 FM gives me News, but first some news. Followed by Woman's Hour.
Musical output of Radio 6 compared to Radio 1 and 2?
Sorry, but Give me Convenience or death! Julian and Sandy over the Archers.
This has nothing to do with sound quality.
It has not sir.
Yet it is a very valid point indeed.
walpurgis
21-07-2015, 17:49
New Acoustic Dimensions do have a reputation of being somewhat unreliable.
I would have said the opposite was true. NAD equipment is durable.
Gordon Steadman
21-07-2015, 18:23
I would have said the opposite was true. NAD equipment is durable.
I'm still listening to a NAD 7020 in one of the bedroom systems. I got it from a friend when I updated her system. She had used it continuously since she bought it new, she never switched it off so that was a few years up to four months ago.
It is still in perfect condition, everything is still solid and it still sounds very fine considering it wasn't the most expensive tuner amp ever made. If this is typical, then to say NAD are unreliable is nonsense. Rather like saying a particular make is good. Certain models might be good or bad but everything a manufacturer turns out!! Nah ...........well perhaps one but I would wan't to upset Suralan.
Audio Advent
27-07-2015, 19:43
I stream 320kbps AAC+ BBC stations from my phone via the Neutron music player app in my car and sometimes around the house (although a dedicated radio is more convenient to just switch on). Still don't see the point in DAB at all, especially seeing how its compression is set back to late 1990s MPEG-2 standards, not even MPEG-3 (MP3).
I would like to share how I listen to that stream in the car via an FM transmitter attached to the phone and listen via FM radio!
I stream 320kbps AAC+ BBC stations from my phone via the Neutron music player app in my car and sometimes around the house
yep - and when I stream BBC stations via my Mac (using BBC Radio Player - allegedly 320 kbps) I hear negligible difference between that and my DAB player - if anything the DAB quality is better on the ear ... less brash.
I used to sell NAD equipment over many years and found that the big change in reliability came when the models went from 4 to 3 figures - The old 3020, the 3020i and the 3225PE were all great amps and just kept on going. Totally bulletproof. I still know of a few of them in good use today.
When we started selling the new models, the returns started mounting up like nothing I'd ever seen before. The 312 was probably the most unreliable bit of kit I ever sold. That was late 1990s though, so I would hope they've improved since then. If you can find a second hand 3225PE in working order though, even by todays standards that's a great amp.
Audio Advent
29-07-2015, 01:29
yep - and when I stream BBC stations via my Mac (using BBC Radio Player - allegedly 320 kbps) I hear negligible difference between that and my DAB player - if anything the DAB quality is better on the ear ... less brash.
Exactly. Negligable difference (your own equipment's sound quality aside) and yet you can receive the internet stream on so many multi-use devices with almost endless upgradability whilst DAB radios and the tech behind it is set in stone and requires special receiving equipment. Outdated now in my view even if it works fine and sounds fine.
Not sure how Radioplayer works on the mac or even the PC, what streams it uses and if/how it changes streams depending on bandwidth. Good thing about using Neutron is, even though it's inconvenient to do so, you type in the exact url for the specified AAC+ 320kbps stream so you know you're getting it.
Listen to DAB on the telly.:guitar:
Audio Advent
01-08-2015, 17:09
Listen to DAB on the telly.:guitar:
That's not DAB in the same way that you're not listening to FM on the telly either.
If you've a smart TV, you're listening to a web stream. If you're listening to Freeview channel or Freesat channel, again that's just an audio stream on the telly, not DAB, most likely derived from a webstream and then transmitted over your TV network of choice.
DAB standard is quite specific and involves transmision over a particular range of frequencies for reception by a specifically DAB receiver e.g. a DAB radio which says "DAB" on it.
You're getting the same stations over a completely different and perhaps more convenient method and quite possibily at a better quality than DAB. That's why DAB in my view is obsolete and should be resigned to the history books.
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