View Full Version : Hi from Finland
Joined up months ago but never got around to posting anything... so here's a little hello from Finland. My hifi consists of old things of various vintage. At some point I realized I have a period correct mid-to-late 70s system, though when I got my 'new' (from the 80s) preamp, that illusion shattered. I listen mostly to vinyl and have several TTs, none of them very expensive (especially since most of them were fixer upper bargains...) but all of them pretty good IMO. Currently in the system I have a Thorens TD-160 w/ the (again IMO) underrated original TP-16 tonearm & Ortofon MC10 Supreme, this is pretty much the benchmark everything else gets compared to. I keep rotating a 2nd TT there as well, I have a Dual 1019 with an added Denon DL-305 tonearm, a Connoisseur BD-2 with Syntec S-220 and a Telefunken S-600 which has the Ortofon AS-212 arm. I prefer MC carts, currently I have the aforementioned Ortofon & a Benz MC20E2-L. MM carts that have made the cut and are staying are a couple vintage Ortofons (VMS), Glanz moving flux and Tenorel T-2001ED (same body as Goldring G800), but overall none of them seems to hold a candle against the MCs though they all have their strengths. I seem to spin mainly jazz these days but lately I've also been on a bit of an 80s kick, Yello, Laurie Anderson, Art of Noise and the like... The rest of the system consists of a Solid State Reference 12 preamp (an 80s Finnish thing) and a JVC JR-S600mkII receiver used as a power amp driving a pair of Kef 104aBs.
Never owned anything modern really as far as hifi goes, but I seem to prefer these old things anyway, when they work...
walpurgis
15-07-2015, 11:31
Hello Kai. Welcome to AOS.
You have an interesting collection of equipment. Why not post a few pictures in the 'Gallery' section, they'll be appreciated.
If you have any plans for your system tell us what you have in mind.
Enjoy the forum,
Geoff.
Finland, Finland, Finland, it's a great place to be [Michael Palin]
Hello Kai. Welcome to AOS.
You have an interesting collection of equipment. Why not post a few pictures in the 'Gallery' section, they'll be appreciated.
If you have any plans for your system tell us what you have in mind.
Enjoy the forum,
Geoff.
Thanks Geoff, I don't have pictures at the moment but perhaps I'll post something at some point... currently the equipment is not very pictoresque though :D I really should sort out the placements, but haven't figured out how yet.
I started from the bottom with hifi about two years ago, finally got rid of my late 80s cheap Pioneer set I had been listening for countless hours. In it's favor I have to say it never needed any service and it gave me 20 years of enjoyment though the amp lacked bass from day 1... was a bit of an epiphany when I replaced it with a late 70s Pioneer set. Then when I got the Kefs I had to change everything again since they were so much more revealing than my previous Wharfedales. I also got on a TT binge a couple years ago, went through a few Pioneers (PL-120, PL-6, PL-112D, PL-200) & a Dual 1216 before getting a Dual 1229 & the rest, also had a Beogram something or other and couple others pass through my hands. Have sold everything except the ones I listed in my first post.
I'm pretty happy with the current setup, so don't really have much aspirations at the moment, though trying out a Denon DL-103 would be fun, never heard one. The Dual 1019 is a bit of a work in progress, it's currently in a heavy plinth but with what I learned from building that one I think I could do better. I know some people think go get a Lenco or something, but IMO the Dual is plenty worthy for a good plinth and a better arm, though the stock one is surprisingly good for such a short mid-60s thing. Keeping it intact and just adding a 2nd arm also has the benefit of having the option of automatic operation with the original arm, perfect for background music and beater records. I even have the stacking spindle for it :D
walpurgis
15-07-2015, 21:15
Yes, Duals are decent turntables. The arm is better than its looks might make you think and should be capable of working with a DL-103 I'd say. the arm mass is likely to be OK. Not a combination I've tried, but I'd not be against giving it a go.
Yes, Duals are decent turntables. The arm is better than its looks might make you think and should be capable of working with a DL-103 I'd say. the arm mass is likely to be OK. Not a combination I've tried, but I'd not be against giving it a go.
The arm on the 1019 is actually quite light, lighter than it looks. If I'd have to guess I'd say about 8-10g effective mass. I did have my Benz MC20E2-L (which is quite low compliance, probably about the same as the DL-103) mounted there, and I had to add over 5g of extra mass to the headshell to make it work.
I currently have a Denon DA-305 mounted on the Dual, and I have to say the stock arm sounds better overall... bit of a let down really :) The Denon does some things better, but it lacks presence. It has deeper bass and more refined treble, but the upper midrange sounds kinda woolly and lifeless, makes everything sound a bit dull. Not sure if it's because of the arm or the way it's mounted. The plinth is pinewood (I know, not a good choice but it was what I had available...) with the deck secured to it using the transport screws, springs removed of course. The arm board is made of acacia and secured with screws. It might be the pine is resonating too much or the coupling isn't tight enough. I suppose I'll make another arm board someday and try the Syntec with the Dual to see if it works any better. The Syntec is currently mounted on the Connoisseur BD-2 and it's the opposite from the Denon - rather bright sounding and a bit on the lean side in the bass. If it sounds dull on the Dual, then I'll at least know it's the plinth. I've heard it said somewhere that the Denon arms tended to sound a bit veiled (it might have been even an old thread over here), so... anyway, I have plans for new plinth, but I'll keep experimenting with this one until I know what works and what doesn't.
Spectral Morn
16-07-2015, 08:53
Welcome to AOS
Regards Neil
Nice to see also others from the northern Europe :) Welcome to AoS!
Welcome to AoS Kai,
You have some interesting equipment - we would love to see some photos of it if you can manage it. The Syntec and Telefunken items are unknown to me, so I would be interested to learn a little more about them.
We have a few members here from your beautiful country - I visited Finland four years ago and was very taken with the place and with the people.
Enjoy the Forum
Regards
Barry
Welcome to AoS Kai,
You have some interesting equipment - we would love to see some photos of it if you can manage it. The Syntec and Telefunken items are unknown to me, so I would be interested to learn a little more about them.
Thanks Barry. The Syntec is a quite short, probably mid to heavyish mass (by modern standards) broadcast arm, I think from late 60s. It's a drop in fit for the SAU-2 if you just make the mounting hole a mm or two bigger. That makes the mounting distance about 200-201mm as opposed to the recommended 205mm but that seems to be a good thing, making reaching Loefgren A & B alignments easier. It's a very simple design with a counterweight that's secured into position with a set screw and a lateral balance weight, no antiskate. Sounds quite lively, the frequency response seems to be leaning a bit towards the treble side of things I think, but in my system that's not a bad thing at all. Haven't done that much listening to it yet and unfortunately it seems my Benz MC20E2-L has developed an issue with the left channel, so I'm left with MMs for the moment for this arm & the Denon, the MC-10 Supreme isn't going anywhere from the Thorens. I realized I do have a photo of it mounted on the Connoisseur, so I uploaded it here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/album.php?albumid=215&attachmentid=15035 - In the photo it has the Benz MC20E2-L in there, but currently I have a Tenorel T2001ED (same cart body as Goldring G800) mounted, with an original .2x.7 nude elliptical stylus. Nice cart though that sharp elliptical makes for a tremble hump at about 12kHz, with a conical it sounds more smooth albeit with less fine detail. The Benz seemed a good match but like I said it's having an issue, my fear is the internal left channel wire has become a bit loose, because the output is lower from that side and it acts very weirdly when the cantilever gets excited - almost like the left channel gets cut off, but that only happens with high frequencies, which is a bit puzzling. Haven't done much troubleshooting yet, I'll try giving the stylus a good clean and perhaps mount it on a 2nd headshell for the Thorens, because I know it's worked excellent there in the past.
Kai
The Syntec looks very similar, if not identical to, the McInnes arm. Will try to find an image for comparison.
walpurgis
16-07-2015, 13:38
It also resembles the Audio Developments arm from circa 1970.
The arm was sold under many brands, as Piezo PU402, Syntec S-220 among others - AFAIK often bundled at some point with Technics SP10 in some parts of the world and earlier in the US with the Sparta broadcast decks. Not sure who was the actual mfg, but made in Japan in any case.
walpurgis
16-07-2015, 16:00
Nice to see one on a BD2. The Conoisseur SAU2 arm was rubbish, but the BD2 turntable section was good. I've owned BD2s and used BD1s on and off for a great many years. I still have one.
Eagle owl
16-07-2015, 21:26
Hello and welcomee Kai.
Geoff. :wave:
Nice to see one on a BD2. The Conoisseur SAU2 arm was rubbish, but the BD2 turntable section was good. I've owned BD2s and used BD1s on and off for a great many years. I still have one.
Well the arm certainly is a quirky design, not sure personally if it's ingenious or stupid or perhaps a bit of both :) I've had pretty good results with it using high compliance cartridges though (Ortofon VMS30FL & M20E which seems to be a special version of VMS20E mkII with a little higher compliance and a .2x.7 nude elliptical instead of .3x.7). The slight azimuth error at the beginning & end of record because of the angled bearings I find is 'neglible', given the arm is setup correctly so that the gimbals are aligned when the arm is at the center of the record. But because of the angled bearings the arm is also prone to high bearing friction and if the bearings are in less than stellar condition it's a lot better option to adjust them too loose than trying to get rid of bearing play - it seems to me because of the angle and both bearings being at motion all the time, they tend to stay loaded in a way that bearing chatter is not an issue, at least I've never heard symptoms of it with mine, even though both bearings were adjusted for quite a bit of slop. Trying to get rid of all play, the increased bearing friction made the arm sound over damped and compressed. The headshell arrangement isn't that great either. I have both the metallic and plastic headshells, not sure there's much difference between them. The metal headshell is slightly lighter, but it's made of some really soft and bendy alloy, so I'm not sure if it's any more rigid than the plastic one really.
I took apart the arm the other day and cleaned the bearings and now it has no play and still moves very freely, but I haven't mounted it since the service so I don't know if it made any difference in sound.
So yeah, all in all, maybe you're right but somehow I still have a soft spot for the arm :)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.