View Full Version : Dougs Big Messy Stereo
If you're big on "dressing" your cables and getting everything just so, prepare to recoil in horror. My AV system (a TV, DVR, and VCR) live in the same place as my stereo, so there are cables running all over.
However, the system is (from left to right): the left Harbeth C7SE3, Rega P3/24 TT with external speed control, EAR 834P phono stage, Rega DAC, and Luxman 550AX integrated amp. The Luxman is new, and it's what I think of as my retirement amp -- it replaced an amp, preamp, and headphone amp. And if things get tight, it's got a decent phono stage, too..
http://sonic.net/~dasherma/images/big_stereo.jpg
What you don't see is the Squeezebox Touch. Oh, and the music server is in the other room...but it's just a computer, not all that interesting to look at.
Idlewithnodrive
29-06-2015, 08:11
Welcome aboard Doug.
What leads ? Nothing at all wrong with that set-up.
You can't go wrong with a Luxman / Harb combo.
Looks good to me Doug - you have a nice system.
Don't worry about 'messy' leads - yours is quite tidy compared to the jumble behind my set up! :D
Audio Al
29-06-2015, 10:20
Lots of quality in your system and visible cables just set it off nicely :)
Thanks for the replies, all. I guess I've been listening to the Naim/LP12 crowd quite a bit about the cable issue ("Now, your tonearm cables must be just so..."). The appearance is not that important to me, I just believe it is to other people. I listened to music for about seven hours yesterday, and about the only time I looked at the stereo was to make sure that the loudness wasn't on. :) I went from tubes to solid state, and I'm still not used to the amount of bass I'm getting. It's not all that much if you compare it to the monster amps (> 100 watts) some folks have, but still.
The Black Adder
29-06-2015, 12:23
Nice... Some nice Harbies there too - an excellent system
Thanks, Jo. I do like the Harbeths. Here's a picture of the vinyl setup. It's nothing fancy, but most of my vinyl is old rock stuff, so it doesn't need to "pull that last smidgen of detail" out of the records. In fact, since the last vinyl I listened to was Black Sabbath, I might be horrified by more detail :)
http://sonic.net/~dasherma/images/tt_ps.jpg
The Black Adder
29-06-2015, 12:46
Your very welcome, Doug. That is a superb vinyl setup... nothing wrong with that.
lol... yes, you don't want to hear too much in to Sabbath, you never know what's hidden in there... :mad:
Idlewithnodrive
29-06-2015, 16:55
That's exactly my doctrine.
Build your system to suit your musical taste. Clinical detail and Sabbath just wouldn't go :)
crackorama
29-06-2015, 19:32
Cracking system Doug, I would love to hear the Rega, Luxman , Harbeth combo I bet it can really sing.
That's exactly my doctrine.
Build your system to suit your musical taste. Clinical detail and Sabbath just wouldn't go :)
But I hear if you play "Blizzard of Ozz" backwards you can hear Ozzy say "Where's the bl**dy remote?"
Frazeur1
30-06-2015, 13:01
Damn Doug, that is freaking mess you got there! If only my mess could be so "messy". Hah! Nice system there sir!
Thanks again to all for the greetings and approbation. :)
I just restored a Rega Planet 2000 to the system. It's going directly into the amp, just using its own DAC. I wanted something to play CDs immediately rather than having to rip them to my music server, etc. Looking at my system, you might think I'm a huge Rega fan, but it just turned out this way. :)
I _am_ thinking of replacing the DAC; I heard a Line Magnetic tube DAC and really liked it. But that's for next year, if ever.
Best to everyone,
Doug
jandl100
03-07-2015, 07:05
Nice looking system - love the VU meters on the Luxman! - there's nowhere near enough cable-spaghetti, though. :nono:
Build your system to suit your musical taste.
That's what we all do, actually - only most folk don't admit it or even realise it! ;)
I have to admit, one of the things I like about the Luxman is that it's very old-school -- not only in looks, but in functionality. I particularly like the tone controls. These seem to be anathema to many hi-fi enthusiasts, but when listening to some older recordings where the treble just about takes the top of your head off, they're very useful. I also like the mono capability; if you have older stuff remixed in fake stereo, it's kind of nice to turn it back into mono.
Very nice indeed. The Luxman is truly a thing of beauty.
i love your set up,esp your speakers. :)
Anthony K
09-07-2015, 19:53
Nice system ,the amp is way above average in looks and sound
Funny, I used to swear that I would never have a solid state amp, but the dealer I bought the Harbeths from convinced me to try the Luxman. And I'm glad I did. As others have noted, the Luxman/Harbeth combination is really sweet. And I really think the Compact 7ES3s are special, even in the company of other Harbeth speakers.
I think Luxman might be understating the output power of the 550AX -- I accidentally rolled the volume up to around 9:30 before I started the music, and the volume almost pushed me back in my seat.
I changed my system, not by an addition, but by a subtraction!
I found the Rega DAC/Luxman combination to be too "in your face" for me. So now I have two digital sources: the Rega Planet 2000 and the Squeezebox Touch, both with their built-in DACs. I like the Planet; it's fairly laid back as far as sound goes. The SBT is just OK -- I can live with it until I find a DAC more suited to my tastes.
So...one less power cord to deal with. :lol:
Messing with the digital side of things makes me glad that I have a lot of LPs....
I changed my system, not by an addition, but by a subtraction!
I found the Rega DAC/Luxman combination to be too "in your face" for me. So now I have two digital sources: the Rega Planet 2000 and the Squeezebox Touch, both with their built-in DACs. I like the Planet; it's fairly laid back as far as sound goes. The SBT is just OK -- I can live with it until I find a DAC more suited to my tastes.
So...one less power cord to deal with. :lol:
Messing with the digital side of things makes me glad that I have a lot of LPs....
Is the Planet like the Planar in terms of sound quality?
Is the Planet like the Planar in terms of sound quality?
The Planet 2000 is the CD player. I thought a Planar was a turntable; or at least I remember my first Rega turntable being called a Planar 3. So I'm slightly confused here. Are you asking if the CD player is like a turntable in terms of sound quality? Or did Rega once have a turntable called the Planet, and I'm just unaware of it?
not sure which way he was meaning but yes, Rega did make a TT in the early 70's called the planet.
http://vf-images.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/RegaAcosPlanet.jpg
not sure which way he was meaning but yes, Rega did make a TT in the early 70's called the planet.
http://vf-images.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/RegaAcosPlanet.jpg
Ah, ok...there seems to be this whole history of British Hi-Fi I know nothing about. For a while, I thought that many of you had quadrophonic systems. Or some unknown "name" brand. Go figure.
One small change in the system: I replaced the Rega DAC with a Muse HIFI DIR9001 + TDA1543x4 DAC. It's a NOS DAC that cost about 35 GBP or about 50 USD. I'm sure it's not the best implementation of NOS that's available, but I wanted to see if I liked the NOS sound. Turns out that I do, and I'll be looking for an NOS DAC sometime in the future.
I'd post a picture of it, but it's a tiny box, so it's lost somewhere in my cable mess :) You can see a picture of it on Ebay if you look.
The DAC does have drawbacks -- it's not always great sounding, but it's a lot better sounding than its price would indicate.
Ah, ok...there seems to be this whole history of British Hi-Fi I know nothing about. For a while, I thought that many of you had quadrophonic systems. Or some unknown "name" brand. Go figure.
LOL - when I first went to LA I was surprised by the number of little hardware stores: every strip-mall had one. Until I found out that a 'Nail Bar' was something entirely different from what I thought it was.
Haselsh1
07-09-2015, 09:24
Wow... would love to hear those loudspeakers on the end of Croft pre/power amplification.
Wow... would love to hear those loudspeakers on the end of Croft pre/power amplification.
As would I. There are a number of UK or European brands I would like to hear, but they're just not available here; Croft is one that looks very interesting.
I'm surprised the Luxman is powerful enough for the Harbeth. I lived with Harbeth and similar powered Class A valve amp for about 9 months, but on critical deep bass it just could not control the Radial 2 drivers. That said, for 95% of listening it was fine, just fell over at the low end.
http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?1861-Luxman-L-550ax-vs-Luxman-L-505ux-with-C7-ES-3
I'm surprised the Luxman is powerful enough for the Harbeth. I lived with Harbeth and similar powered Class A valve amp for about 9 months, but on critical deep bass it just could not control the Radial 2 drivers. That said, for 95% of listening it was fine, just fell over at the low end.
Was it the C7ES speakers you had, or something larger? I see you have SHL5 speakers in your signature.
I used tube amps for years, and there was almost _no_ low end -- so when I moved to the Luxman, it seemed to me as if there was excessive low end :)
I usually listen between 1-3 watts (or so I've been told by some serious stereo guys), so the Luxman has more than enough power for me. I think it's a great amp for people who like tubes, are tired of fussing with tubes, and are willing to compromise a little on the sound. Right now I'm running an NOS dac for digital and a tubed phono preamp for vinyl, so it all sounds pretty good to me.
Floyddroid
19-09-2015, 15:35
That just looks like a great system to me.
Hi Doug,
Harbeths are not the most efficient of speaker brands and there's a convoluted thread or two on their 'HUG' user group going into reams about amp requirements. It's been suggested for years that what we really want is around 5W on average, but with a kW on peaks to do music justice. The CD of say, 'Me Myself I' by Joan Armatrading has a powerfully recorded and mixed drum kit that really does have some peaks to it and played at a fair old level, this can drive an amp hard on peaks I'm told from someone who measured them...
Was it the C7ES speakers you had, or something larger? I see you have SHL5 speakers in your signature.
I used tube amps for years, and there was almost _no_ low end -- so when I moved to the Luxman, it seemed to me as if there was excessive low end :)
I usually listen between 1-3 watts (or so I've been told by some serious stereo guys), so the Luxman has more than enough power for me. I think it's a great amp for people who like tubes, are tired of fussing with tubes, and are willing to compromise a little on the sound. Right now I'm running an NOS dac for digital and a tubed phono preamp for vinyl, so it all sounds pretty good to me.
I've had SHL5+ since they came out and I also have P3ESR. I had a very good 20w SE amp that had lots of bass and with PMC Fact8 89dB speakers it was tight (there were other issues with those speakers). The issue with the Radial 2 driver in all Harbeth is that it is inefficient due to the coating and whilst my 20w amp went low, it could not control it and sometimes it became mushy. The minimum recommended for the Radial 2 is 25w. My replacement amps are 40w triode mono blocks and are fine.
As I said, for most things 20w was fine, but over time I found the limitations annoying. It really does revolve around your listening tastes, but I found a real problem with Massive Attack and low frequency brass (bass tuba etc.). I did think of Luxman myself at one time, but was concerned that they are underpowered.
I've had SHL5+ since they came out and I also have P3ESR. I had a very good 20w SE amp that had lots of bass and with PMC Fact8 89dB speakers it was tight (there were other issues with those speakers). The issue with the Radial 2 driver in all Harbeth is that it is inefficient due to the coating and whilst my 20w amp went low, it could not control it and sometimes it became mushy. The minimum recommended for the Radial 2 is 25w. My replacement amps are 40w triode mono blocks and are fine.
As I said, for most things 20w was fine, but over time I found the limitations annoying. It really does revolve around your listening tastes, but I found a real problem with Massive Attack and low frequency brass (bass tuba etc.). I did think of Luxman myself at one time, but was concerned that they are underpowered.
I have to admit, I've never heard Massive Attack...but now I'll check them out. I'm assuming from their name that they're some sort of modern funk band. Good thing I like surprises.
Your post brought up a question, which I asked of the American distributor of Luxman: if the 550AX puts out 20w/8ohms and 40w/4ohms, what does it put out to a pair of 6ohm speakers (such as the C7ES3)? He said it would put out 30w. I don't know exactly how that would work, but if that's the case, then great for me. Maybe someone who understands amplifiers a little better than I do can comment.
You also said "It really does revolve around your listening tastes" and that's true, but I think room size is a factor too. The room I listen in is about 12' x 18' (3.6 meters by 5.5 meters), so it's fairly small and pretty easy to fill with music.
But now I'm going to Tidal to check out Massive Attack. I usually go to dub for my low bass, but every once in a while I like variety.
I have to admit, I've never heard Massive Attack...but now I'll check them out. I'm assuming from their name that they're some sort of modern funk band. Good thing I like surprises.
Your post brought up a question, which I asked of the American distributor of Luxman: if the 550AX puts out 20w/8ohms and 40w/4ohms, what does it put out to a pair of 6ohm speakers (such as the C7ES3)? He said it would put out 30w. I don't know exactly how that would work, but if that's the case, then great for me. Maybe someone who understands amplifiers a little better than I do can comment.
You also said "It really does revolve around your listening tastes" and that's true, but I think room size is a factor too. The room I listen in is about 12' x 18' (3.6 meters by 5.5 meters), so it's fairly small and pretty easy to fill with music.
But now I'm going to Tidal to check out Massive Attack. I usually go to dub for my low bass, but every once in a while I like variety.
One of the great features of Harbeth speakers is their low volume ability to retain the scale of the music being played, so there is no temptation to pump up the volume.
However, the inability of an underpowered amp to properly control the Radial 2 drivers is an absolute, irrespective of listening level or room size.
If you put on Mezzanine, for example, you really need to hear it with a powerful amplifier.
One of the great features of Harbeth speakers is their low volume ability to retain the scale of the music being played, so there is no temptation to pump up the volume.
However, the inability of an underpowered amp to properly control the Radial 2 drivers is an absolute, irrespective of listening level or room size.
If you put on Mezzanine, for example, you really need to hear it with a powerful amplifier.
I will agree to disagree -- I think when you say "the inability of an underpowered amp to properly control the Radial 2 drivers is an absolute", both "underpowered" and "properly" are fairly subjective in this case.
On the other hand...I've never heard of Mezzanine! So I'm more than willing to continue this discussion, because you keep introducing me to new bands!
Edit: Ok, now I see that you meant (or I think you meant) the album Mezzanine by Massive Attack!:doh:
This is the DAC I've been using since around the end of August. It replaced a Rega DAC, which I felt was just not a good match for my 'retirement amp' (Luxman 550AX). It's a cheap DAC; around 34 GBP, but it brings a relaxed quality to the music that I really like. It's not perfect, but it's really good for the price.
http://sonic.net/~dasherma/images/dacold.jpg
Just a thought on the 20 watt rating of your 550AX. I'm looking to get one of these or the 590 in the near future. I've read a lot about them on the web and it seems that it's the First 20 watts that's in Class A, it then reverts to A/B up to about the mid to late 60's! As most of what we listen to is below 20 watts, I assume that's the angle they're taking. Someone measured the 30 watt 590 as outputting 76 watts into 8ohms...
Just a thought on the 20 watt rating of your 550AX. I'm looking to get one of these or the 590 in the near future. I've read a lot about them on the web and it seems that it's the First 20 watts that's in Class A, it then reverts to A/B up to about the mid to late 60's! As most of what we listen to is below 20 watts, I assume that's the angle they're taking. Someone measured the 30 watt 590 as outputting 76 watts into 8ohms...
This is my understanding as well. I've also been told that the 550AX outputs 30WPC into 6ohm speakers, such as mine are.
I'm pretty sure I don't listen above 3 watts. My room isn't that large.
The 550AX is a marvelous amp -- I believe it's the best solid state I've ever heard. If I could afford a 590AX, I'd certainly think about it.
The 550AX is a marvelous amp -- I believe it's the best solid state I've ever heard. If I could afford a 590AX, I'd certainly think about it.
That's good to hear! I'm really looking forward to getting one or the other. The 590 is significantly more money, but by all accounts it's much better....we shall see. It's now in Mark II guise too!
That's good to hear! I'm really looking forward to getting one or the other. The 590 is significantly more money, but by all accounts it's much better....we shall see. It's now in Mark II guise too!
Having debated (with myself!) about the above statement, I decided to go with a Luxman 507uX. It'll be with me hopefully next week. The room is quite small and I was a little concerned about the heat of the Class A amp. Also the 507 will have more drive for my Harbeth speakers. I'll maybe post a gallery of the system when it's all in and running...
Having debated (with myself!) about the above statement, I decided to go with a Luxman 507uX. It'll be with me hopefully next week. The room is quite small and I was a little concerned about the heat of the Class A amp. Also the 507 will have more drive for my Harbeth speakers. I'll maybe post a gallery of the system when it's all in and running...
Well, you have the P3ESR speakers, right? I can't imagine that 110WPC (or whatever the Luxman puts out into a 6ohm load) won't drive those speakers really well. I auditioned the P3ESR, and I remember them sounding great; I'll be really interested in hearing your impressions of how the Luxman and the Harbeths work together. I also look forward to seeing the pictures! Call me crazy, but I really like seeing how other people have set up their stereos.
Well, you have the P3ESR speakers, right? I can't imagine that 110WPC (or whatever the Luxman puts out into a 6ohm load) won't drive those speakers really well. I auditioned the P3ESR, and I remember them sounding great; I'll be really interested in hearing your impressions of how the Luxman and the Harbeths work together. I also look forward to seeing the pictures! Call me crazy, but I really like seeing how other people have set up their stereos.
I will do! I've never put pictures of my system on here, but I will in this case. I like looking at system pics too, in fact I have a Pinterest board for just that!
What a saddo I am! :lol:
I will do! I've never put pictures of my system on here, but I will in this case. I like looking at system pics too, in fact I have a Pinterest board for just that!
What a saddo I am! :lol:
Oh, come on, many of us do things like that! I once had a huge collection of pictures of unaffordable tube amps...and I would look at them every day.
uI've played Mezzanine into P3ESR's and was surprised how well those tiny bass drivers handled it and to pretty fair levels too.
Recently on the HUG, there was reference and a link to a BBC paper written years ago about amp clipping. Apparently, we can tolerate far more soft-clipping distortion than was thought and I suspect it's amps ringing or really going nasty that we most often associate with 'clipping' as such. certainly, a Cyrus 1 in all its forms was a 25WPC and, but according to Rega, some little oscillation started early and I always found the thing stressed and 'out of breath.' Classic Luxman amps of old were rather like Accuphase of the time, all 'thick double cream' in colouration and not 'fast turn on a sixpence' as many new-wave amps were becoming in the early 80's. Lux then seemed to go two ways, the cheaper stuff long gone and the lavish expensive gear remaining at eye-watering prices.
Mind you, Alan Shaw of Harbeth has stated on his forum and for the record, that he used his home Quad 306 power amp for domestic listening and a Quad 405 (don't know which version) and 520 for professional testing. He claims that as all 'good' amps sound the same when closely level matched, and the fact that his speakers have been designed to go with any good amp of enough power, any further talk of different amps on his forum is going to be suppressed or redacted entirely..
So just think chaps, you could have saved yourself thousands on expensive imported bling-boxes and bought a vintage Quad 34/306 instead, as it wouldn't sound any different. Alternatively, you could have bought a nice Denon amp like a PMA 350se or modern equivalent and shedloads of CD's or records instead...
By the way, whereabouts in California are you? I spent a good few months in California, in Cambria not far from San Luis Obispo...
By the way, whereabouts in California are you? I spent a good few months in California, in Cambria not far from San Luis Obispo...
I'm further north in the San Francisco area. I was once in the San Luis Obispo area, but that was years ago. I remember it as quite beautiful, though.
It is rather. I was window cleaning with the sea at my back...nice memories!
uI've played Mezzanine into P3ESR's and was surprised how well those tiny bass drivers handled it and to pretty fair levels too.
Recently on the HUG, there was reference and a link to a BBC paper written years ago about amp clipping. Apparently, we can tolerate far more soft-clipping distortion than was thought and I suspect it's amps ringing or really going nasty that we most often associate with 'clipping' as such. certainly, a Cyrus 1 in all its forms was a 25WPC and, but according to Rega, some little oscillation started early and I always found the thing stressed and 'out of breath.' Classic Luxman amps of old were rather like Accuphase of the time, all 'thick double cream' in colouration and not 'fast turn on a sixpence' as many new-wave amps were becoming in the early 80's. Lux then seemed to go two ways, the cheaper stuff long gone and the lavish expensive gear remaining at eye-watering prices.
Mind you, Alan Shaw of Harbeth has stated on his forum and for the record, that he used his home Quad 306 power amp for domestic listening and a Quad 405 (don't know which version) and 520 for professional testing. He claims that as all 'good' amps sound the same when closely level matched, and the fact that his speakers have been designed to go with any good amp of enough power, any further talk of different amps on his forum is going to be suppressed or redacted entirely..
So just think chaps, you could have saved yourself thousands on expensive imported bling-boxes and bought a vintage Quad 34/306 instead, as it wouldn't sound any different. Alternatively, you could have bought a nice Denon amp like a PMA 350se or modern equivalent and shedloads of CD's or records instead...
What do you think? Do you really believe what Alan says about amps sounding the same? Funny forum that one imo. I enjoy prodding them a little :rolleyes:
I'm further north in the San Francisco area. I was once in the San Luis Obispo area, but that was years ago. I remember it as quite beautiful, though.
My sister in law is from Sacramento..
What do you think? Do you really believe what Alan says about amps sounding the same? Funny forum that one imo. I enjoy prodding them a little :rolleyes:
Well, nothing against Alan, who after all designs very good-sounding speakers, but...no, I can't go along with him at all if that's what he says. I believe the original statement was a little more qualified than that, though, wasn't it? I can't remember it, though. And although I didn't agree with it, it made more sense than the blanket "all amps sound the same."
EDIT: I missed the post by DSJR where he repeats what Shaw said. If the quote is accurate, it's "all 'good' amps sound the same when closely level matched". There is a lot of wiggle room in that statement. In the end, though, I don't care that much; I would still buy another pair of Harbeths because they're simply very good speakers. And for my listening room and levels, I find that the Luxman (which after all is 30WPC into 6ohms) is quite enough power. I just wish it didn't sound so different from my last amplifier... :)
I think I went off subject there.
But don't you wish that were true, that all amps sound the same? I certainly do. I'd still have a Denon receiver if it were. :)
This is the end...
What I'm thinking of as my retirement stereo is now complete, in that the main components should last a good long time...
Luxman integrated, Harbeth speakers, Rega turntable, EAR phono stage...and now...
I pulled this from the mothballs, because I don't always want to rip a CD to my server before I listen to it:
http://sonic.net/~dasherma/images/from_the_mothballs.jpg
It's the old faithful Rega Planet 2000. It replaced my original Rega Planet (yes, the CD player) when the laser assembly went haywire and the repairman couldn't fix it. I don't use this much, so I hope it will last quite a while.
I used to plug the analog outs from the CD player into the amplifier, until I got my early birthday/Chanukah/Christmas/Anniversary present, shown here:
http://sonic.net/~dasherma/images/new_dac.jpg
Now all of my digital sources (okay, both of them) go into the DAC. My thanks to forum members AlfaGTV for suggesting that I might like an NOS DAC (I do) and Pieoftheday for pointing me towards an inexpensive NOS DAC so that I could determine whether I liked the NOS sound (and as stated before, I do; I do like it). After a lot of research, I decided on the Metrum Musette. It's a nice NOS DAC, and the only drawback I see so far is that the indicator lights are far too bright; so I'm using a simple product called LightDims to mask the light.
It's a happy day at Chez Doug.
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