SOLID STATE or VALVES for Tannoys?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've always pondered this. Do you prefer a few watts from valves to drive your Tannoys or do you prefer 500W of pure solid state muscle? Which do you think sounds best?

I'd be interested to hear what you lot think.

[ff1d1l]

Some time ago out goes 2 Leak stereo 20s, one very original, one with caps replaced with wondercaps etc. In comes class A Luxkit 25 wpc Z501 and Jvc M-L10.

Both amps sound to my ears considerably better into Tannoy M G 12" than the Leaks, although the Leaks were pretty respectable. My advice if you'ree currently wedded to thermionic devices, have a try of what high quality solid state has to offer, you might like it very much...

[cloth-ears]

Quad 405 2, built for Tannoy's

[spendorman]

Valves are my vote, STA25 III goes well. That's in to HPD315's

[southall-1998]

Calling Walpurgis...

S.

[Spectral Morn]

I have only heard Tannoys once, and it was with solid state, Class D in fact, a pair of Definitions matched to Chapter Audio electronics, the sound was sublime. The Preface Pre and Two + power amplifier were apparently designed with Tannoy in mind or so I was told at a HiFi show quiet a few years ago. It was back in 2003ish

Thing is, is it modern Tannoys or vintage ones ?



Regards Neil


I would avoid first gen Chapter Audio, reliability wasn't very good but the later products are fine.

[walpurgis]

Class D has been known to sound rather good through mine.

[spendorman]

I have only heard Tannoys once, and it was with solid state, Class D in fact, a pair of Definitions matched to Chapter Audio electronics, the sound was sublime. The Preface Pre and Two + power amplifier were apparently designed with Tannoy in mind or so I was told at a HiFi show quiet a few years ago. It was back in 2003ish



Regards Neil


I would avoid first gen Chapter Audio, reliability wasn't very good but the later products are fine.



Although I said valves (STA25 III), I was forgetting that I tried the HPD315's on my Class D TPA3116 amp, very good results too. There is a newish thread on the Yahoo Tannoy Group about DC's and Class D amp. General opinion is that it works very well.

[walpurgis]

Calling Walpurgis...

S.

Yes Shane. You've heard my Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro Class A power amp driving the Cheviot II speakers.

I have EL34 valve monos and they sound great with the Tannoys, but the SM-70 Pro is just a truly superb match.

[southall-1998]

Yes Shane. You've heard my Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro Class A power amp driving the Cheviot II speakers.

I have EL34 valve monos and they sound great with the Tannoys, but the SM-70 Pro is just a truly superb match.

It's a bloody good amp! Its like a Sugden, but on steroids and red bull.

S.

[walpurgis]

It's a bloody good amp! Its like a Sugden, but on steroids and red bull.

S.

:) I like that!

[struth]

my el84 seems to drive mine easily enough, and its only 16w. Would think any good amp would run them well; such a good speaker. A lovely amp just gone online in P exhibitions.... a stonker for the money and wish it were heading my way.

[The Black Adder]

With my Tannoy's I prefer the large valve type (KT88, KT120) or hybrid like a custom built Croft. They are at the top of the tree with the KT120 amp being the zenith. I've had both in my system as well as some Quad II's, Leak TL12, S20.

The TL12's didn't impress whilst the S20 was super.

As for solid state, I've also tried a small digital amp and had superb results with that, I'd say the digital amp is on a par with the S20 and even betters it in most things.

A well thought out, or custom built/adapted KT120 amp is the best choice in my opinion at the end of the day which is echoed by many with Tannoy's such as ours, Andrew. That is for those wondering are the 15" Monitor Golds.

In my experience it generally comes down to around 25-50wpc which sounds the nicest.

[Reffc]

Use whatever, providing it has adequate current for the bass and a low output impedance (this rules out most SE designs I'm afraid).

As above: 405/2 is great, as is 606; STA 25 very good (low output impedance, quality output transformers and decent design); WAD KT88; Luxman 505; even a humble Denon PMA350 (UK) is a great partnering amp.
Tannoys have an impedance curve resembling the alps, and big drivers so DF does matter. It doesn't need to be extraordinarily high, but any amp with an output impedance greater than half an ohm may struggle to grip Tannoys in the bass.
Power wise, the more the better IME, but minimum of 30 to 40 watts seems to work well, although more is better.

[anthonyTD]

Hi All,
I have tried various amps with my Tannoys over the years, although i mainly use them with my Soul Single ended mono-blocks. Recently, i managed to finnish a pair of Class D amps i have had on the go for a few years now, and they are currently powering the Tannoys, and although they will need a little more running in, they are a good match, but there is no question in my mind which i prefer, and its valves in my paticular set up, they just portray a more natural, effortless flow to the music that i find hard to do without. However, i have heard shocking examples of both technologies over the years, so, my advice would always be, go with what works for you, in your own set up and suroundings etc, dont be swayed by what you think you should be using, trust your own ears, and senses. :)
A...

[Ninanina]

I'm afraid I can't comment on solid state as I don't own one to try on my Tannoy's and although some people rule out SE amps I use an Audio Note Oto SE on mine and cannot hear any problems

The Oto is only about 10w but it seems to have no problem driving the Tannoy's and if need be to crazy levels but that's not how I listen to them. My volume knob never goes past about 11 o'clock for the sound level I require

I have no idea if I could improve on the sound with a different amp as I am so happy with the Oto and the Tannoy's as they are and I am in no rush to change something that sounds so good to me .. :)

I'm not sure if that helps at all ;)

[walpurgis]

Having tried a huge amount of amps with Tannoys, mostly decent, some pretty good. I agree with some of the foregoing (regarding amps I've tried). The Denon PMA-350 (SE version used by me many times) is a surprisingly good match. The Stereo 20 works just fine (and with a mere 12 watts). Class D or T amps can be good. But none of you (as far as I'm aware) have tried a Monarchy Audio SS Class A power amp. My SM-70 Pro is bliss with Tannoys and only 25 watts, but very punchy ones. It grips tightly.

I believe Ali Tait is enjoying one he obtained recently. Dunno if he's using Tannoys though.

[Andy831]

As Andy uses 15" MG tannoys in my opinion the Radford at 25-30watts should be more than adequate to drive them, if he was using maybe HPD or even K series then there is a serious argument for a few more watts.

I have driven my 15" K series with a 1.8 watt (el84 set amp), a 6 watt (2 x el84 set amps bridged into mono), a 10 watt 300b set amp a 35watt 845 set amp and various solid state amps (Quad 303, 306, 606 and a Bryston something or other that had many watts available) They all worked, the little flea power sets were lovely but lacking in grip and bass. The Solid state amps have the grip and bass in spades but lose the lovely set bloom in the midrange, so whilst I still have most of the amps I have settled on the 845 set which has a nice level of grip and maintains the set midrange.

This is what my ears tell me having heard many pairs of MG and the newer speakers.

[JimR]

I originally ran my Tannoys from a mid-range Naim pre/power. I then auditioned three valve amps and purchased an Almarro 318b - a SET but with unusually chunky 6c33c valves. Not sure how this compares to all the other amps out there, but it is chalk and cheese better than the Naims.

Jim.

[Ninanina]

I originally ran my Tannoys from a mid-range Naim pre/power. I then auditioned three valve amps and purchased an Almarro 318b - a SET but with unusually chunky 6c33c valves. Not sure how this compares to all the other amps out there, but it is chalk and cheese better than the Naims.

Jim.

Jim I have tried to like Naim gear for years but everytime I have had an audition at home of their amps (which is about 5 times!) I just cannot warm to their sound at all so I am not very surprised to hear that your valve amps have been like "chalk and cheese better than the Naims"... ;)

[KONDO]

Some time ago out goes 2 Leak stereo 20s, one very original, one with caps replaced with wondercaps etc. In comes class A Luxkit 25 wpc Z501 and Jvc M-L10.

Both amps sound to my ears considerably better into Tannoy M G 12" than the Leaks, although the Leaks were pretty respectable. My advice if you'ree currently wedded to thermionic devices, have a try of what high quality solid state has to offer, you might like it very much...had a z501 great amp,loved the cooling system

[ff1d1l]

had a z501 great amp,loved the cooling system

I've got two of em, one to wear, one in the wash...Use em with Yamaha C4 preamps (two of them, too!), with very good results.

Regarding my earlier post and whats been posted subsequently, it's all very well saying Leak ST20 will drive Monitor Golds, well yes, it will, but its a sweet, pleasant, but comparatively small sound compared with either the Luxkit Z501 or the JVC M-L10 monster. The JVC sounding big ( 160 wpc) is understandable, but the Z501 is only 25 watts. But both give a huge soundstage with dynamics neither of the Leaks manages. When a vocalist comes in on a well recorded track, he - or she - STEPS UP, they're in front and fronting the band in a way that eludes the Leak ST20's. And bass....the JVC seems to have another octave and that octave is beautifully controlled, open and airy. And the Luxkit while not as profound as the M-L10 goes deeper and is more informative than the Leaks too. And both have treble at least as liquid as the Leaks, and better recovery of ambiance so I don't feel short changed in this area either.

I'm mentioning the ST20's because they are the most successful vintage valve amp I've tried with Tannoys. I haven't tried a Radford, and imagine STA15 or STA25 would be pretty good (and maybe change my opinion), but I've tried Quad lls, Dynatron Lf48, Dynatron LF11 and Rogers Cadet. The Leaks were easily the best of these, but the SS amps mentioned do it for me really.

Again I'd say valves may well be floating your boat at the moment, but it's possible you don't know what you're missing...

[walpurgis]

The Leak Stereo 20 is consistently good. I've had a few. Don't use one now. EL34 monos or Class A SS power amps these days. They edge the ST20, but not by a huge margin.

[Oldboyracer]

I've got two of em, one to wear, one in the wash...Use em with Yamaha C4 preamps (two of them, too!), with very good results.

Regarding my earlier post and whats been posted subsequently, it's all very well saying Leak ST20 will drive Monitor Golds, well yes, it will, but its a sweet, pleasant, but comparatively small sound compared with either the Luxkit Z501 or the JVC M-L10 monster. The JVC sounding big ( 160 wpc) is understandable, but the Z501 is only 25 watts. But both give a huge soundstage with dynamics neither of the Leaks manages. When a vocalist comes in on a well recorded track, he - or she - STEPS UP, they're in front and fronting the band in a way that eludes the Leak ST20's. And bass....the JVC seems to have another octave and that octave is beautifully controlled, open and airy. And the Luxkit while not as profound as the M-L10 goes deeper and is more informative than the Leaks too. And both have treble at least as liquid as the Leaks, and better recovery of ambiance so I don't feel short changed in this area either.

I'm mentioning the ST20's because they are the most successful vintage valve amp I've tried with Tannoys. I haven't tried a Radford, and imagine STA15 or STA25 would be pretty good (and maybe change my opinion), but I've tried Quad lls, Dynatron Lf48, Dynatron LF11 and Rogers Cadet. The Leaks were easily the best of these, but the SS amps mentioned do it for me really.

Again I'd say valves may well be floating your boat at the moment, but it's possible you don't know what you're missing...

Dynatron - that's a name I haven't heard in a long while, did my apprenticeship there on the electronics side. I used to spend a lot of time nosing around the radio side & accumulated enough parts to build my 1st "record player" - 2 x mono tube amps with a Garrard AT6 autochanger.

[ff1d1l]

Dynatron - that's a name I haven't heard in a long while, did my apprenticeship there on the electronics side. I used to spend a lot of time nosing around the radio side & accumulated enough parts to build my 1st "record player" - 2 x mono tube amps with a Garrard AT6 autochanger.

ooooh....those old mint green/blue Dynatron valve amps are such nice bits of gear....

[The Black Adder]

I've ran the Woodside Radford STA25 with Tannoys.

[montesquieu]

Best I've heard (and I've tried over 30 amps ranging from 845 single ended to 200w Class D with 12in and 15in MG and HPDs in various cabinets) were all big push-pull amps: KT88, KT90, KT120. Minimum 20-30w though more (up to about 70w) I found was generally better.

If you want specific recommendations:

My Radford STA100 (though it's not for sale) :D
EAR 534 or 890 - absolutely sublime, in fact indistinguishable from the Radford
McIntosh MC275 - I cried when it left as it was only borrowed, but the Radford and EARs just shade it I think
For Golds: STA25 (it will also make HPDs sound lovely but might run out of puff just a whisker too soon); ditto Leak Stereo 20 which is lovely with Golds but might struggle in a big room with HPDs .
I haven't heard one but AnthonyTD's copper amp fits the general description and by all accounts is wonderful in its execution (though he's too modest to mention it here)
I also loved the big Emile that Paul runs (dunno the model), sounded similar to the Leben I once had which ran best on KT77s rather than EL34s - it was also a lovely match with Tannoys.

Lots of others but the common denominator here is valves. Solid state amps I quite liked (but not quite in big valve league) were the Lyngdorf SDA2175 and a Sony V-Fet amp, both had their charms (the Vfet in particular) notably lots of grip, but a good valve amp just does mids that bit better, IMHO.

The WORST amp I heard with them (even worse than a cheapo KT88 single ended project amp) was a big Unison Research S8 845 single ended - what a big pile of crap that was. (Spectacular fail with ESLs as well).

[spendorman]

Well, I like valves, I already mentioned that the Radford STA25 III does well into the Tannoys. I had 12" Silvers, 12" Golds and now have 12" HPD's.

A transistor amp that was fine on the Tannoys was / is the Quad 303. The Slivers were 15 Ohm, so very easy to drive. The 303 also seemed fine on the Gold's. I've not tried it properly on the HPD's though.

On the STA25, it's actually over 30 Watts per channel according to various tests. Hi Fi News Aug 1984 got 39 Watts per channel (both channels driven). This test was on an old MK III, and they were comparing it with the then new MK 4, which achieved 40 W per channel

[Tarzan]

Would love to hear my Virtue Audio Sensation M451, tweaked to the sally's and on batteries into a pair of Tannoys, could be great or gash........:eek:

[Wakefield Turntables]

SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm well pissed off I just missed out on a pair of Marantz 9 monoblocks for mi' Tannoys. :(

[Wakefield Turntables]

So, me old Radford seems to be well liked for driving the Tannoys then.

[Barry]

So, me old Radford seems to be well liked for driving the Tannoys then.

That would be a classic '60s British system. Just add a Garrard 301/401 and a Decca cartridge and arm to complete it! :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

That would be a classic '60s British system. Just add a Garrard 301/401 and a Decca cartridge and arm to complete it! :)

The Raford is partnered with this http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?14850-Garrard-301-restoration-project/page14 see post #133

I've often considered getting a Decca with the FFSS tonearm on a seperate tonearm pod but have always been put off but the nature of the DECCA carts.

[pgarrish]

I have a pair of mullard 5-20 monos and a big old hh s500d 180wpc SS power amp into my Cheviots with hpds. There is little between them, the valves having more (not as well controlled?) bass. I've briefly had a crown dc300 into them and that drove the bass better than either of mine.

All the amps are wired up and I can switch the speakers in a second or two so very little time to forget between.

[Reffc]

Interesting Paul. I've often been tempted to partner a Crown power amp with a valve amp for bi-amping Tannoys. They lend themselves to this arrangement very well and what the Crown amps may lack in overall finesse, they make up for in their more than ample power and control down below. Very sensibly priced both new and on the used market especially.

[Box13]

I've always pondered this. Do you prefer a few watts from valves to drive your Tannoys or do you prefer 500W of pure solid state muscle? Which do you think sounds best?

I'd be interested to hear what you lot think.

I think it depends what sort of sound you like and what type of music you listen to.
I could give you an honest opinion with a bit more information.
Don't forget the third option as well, Nu-Vistas!
In a situation like this people tend to forget that you don't 'listen' to speakers; but rather their interpretation of the information fed into them. For example my Hitachi 3's are only small full range units, but they sound really rocking when fed a beefy signal.

[walpurgis]

I've often considered getting a Decca with the FFSS tonearm on a seperate tonearm pod but have always been put off but the nature of the DECCA carts.

Not quite sure I understand that.

[Box13]

Not quite sure I understand that.

Apparently it means 'fast fingers' Wal. I'm with you on this one acronyms are all very well for the issuer, but they tend to confuse the listener. I was watching an American police drama the other night [where they are obsessed with them] and had to turn it off because I did not know what they were talking about!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Not quite sure I understand that.

What dont you understand and I'll elaborate.

[walpurgis]

What dont you understand and I'll elaborate.

I took it as you saying you fancied a Decca, but didn't want one. :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

I took it as you saying you fancied a Decca, but didn't want one. :D

Ah ha! Yes, I see what you mean. I've always fancied getting a Decca cart + tonearm so I can play my DECCA collection of records. I've been put off by the reports of how fiddly the DECCA carts can be. Perhaps I should just take the plunge :scratch:.

[walpurgis]

Perhaps I should just take the plunge :scratch:.

I'd say yes, definitely! If you've not used one, the first listen to a Decca on your own system is quite an experience. Nothing else sounds quite the same.

I'd suggest a good Decca would sound marvellous on your valve system.

I've had a few and not found any undue problems setting them up.

[Wakefield Turntables]

TBH Geoff it's on the list with a long list of upgrades this year for the Valve system. The Tannoys are actually being rehoused in some new RFC designed, Russ Collinson built wardrobes. The Garrard 301 is in the middle of several major upgrades, then I have a speed controller to build, then maybe a Garrard 401 to play with. I intended mounting the Decca tonearm on an extrinsic tonearm POD and then I can use it with my 301 or Technics 1210, or Garrard 401. :D

[Box13]

TBH Geoff it's on the list with a long list of upgrades this year for the Valve system. The Tannoys are actually being rehoused in some new RFC designed, Russ Collinson built wardrobes. The Garrard 301 is in the middle of several major upgrades, then I have a speed controller to build, then maybe a Garrard 401 to play with. I intended mounting the Decca tonearm on an extrinsic tonearm POD and then I can use it with my 301 or Technics 1210, or Garrard 401. :D

I think you should hold off on the amplifier change for the reasons stated above.
Make too many changes at once and you will lose the plot.

[tannoy man]

Hi All,
I have tried various amps with my Tannoys over the years, although i mainly use them with my Soul Single ended mono-blocks. Recently, i managed to finnish a pair of Class D amps i have had on the go for a few years now, and they are currently powering the Tannoys, and although they will need a little more running in, they are a good match, but there is no question in my mind which i prefer, and its valves in my paticular set up, they just portray a more natural, effortless flow to the music that i find hard to do without. However, i have heard shocking examples of both technologies over the years, so, my advice would always be, go with what works for you, in your own set up and suroundings etc, dont be swayed by what you think you should be using, trust your own ears, and senses. :)
A...

Well said.

[tannoy man]

SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm well pissed off I just missed out on a pair of Marantz 9 monoblocks for mi' Tannoys. :(

My Vintage Dream;)

[pgarrish]

Interesting Paul. I've often been tempted to partner a Crown power amp with a valve amp for bi-amping Tannoys. They lend themselves to this arrangement very well and what the Crown amps may lack in overall finesse, they make up for in their more than ample power and control down below. Very sensibly priced both new and on the used market especially.
For those that don't know it, my hh is basically 2/3 of a dc300 with fewer output stages and a smaller (1kW) toroidal tansformer where the crown has an r-core (I think). The crown certainly gave the bass more depth and heft over the hh but not night and day. I think your idea of biamping with crown bass and valve treble would be interesting.

[Marco]

I have tried various amps with my Tannoys over the years, although i mainly use them with my Soul Single ended mono-blocks. Recently, i managed to finnish a pair of Class D amps i have had on the go for a few years now, and they are currently powering the Tannoys, and although they will need a little more running in, they are a good match, but there is no question in my mind which i prefer, and its valves in my paticular set up, they just portray a more natural, effortless flow to the music that i find hard to do without. However, i have heard shocking examples of both technologies over the years, so, my advice would always be, go with what works for you, in your own set up and suroundings etc, dont be swayed by what you think you should be using, trust your own ears, and senses. :)


+1 (on all counts) :exactly:

With vintage Tannoys (such as MGs), I find that to be even more of the case: valves (done well) with those are simply a match made in heaven.

Marco.

[Arkless Electronics]

For those that don't know it, my hh is basically 2/3 of a dc300 with fewer output stages and a smaller (1kW) toroidal tansformer where the crown has an r-core (I think). The crown certainly gave the bass more depth and heft over the hh but not night and day. I think your idea of biamping with crown bass and valve treble would be interesting.

I can vouch for the bass control of the DC-300. It's about the tightest bass you'll ever get. It's a standard non R core transformer BTW (not that it would make any difference). I have a couple of DC-300's and could be persuaded to part with one...

[Barry]

SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm well pissed off I just missed out on a pair of Marantz 9 monoblocks for mi' Tannoys. :(

Do you think they will better your Radford STA25? Why not try to find a pair of MA25s?

Perhaps with the doubled-up EL34s the Marantz 9s offer more power:

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.e0jYCZ%2fJJC20NGxb5I4c6A&pid=15.1




(PS Apropos the Decca - just go for it!)

[julesd68]

Bit late to the party for this but I've been using a reasonably powerful hybrid integrated for some time now with my 12" HPD's, featuring valve pre-amp & 120W solid state power. This gives me the bass grip that the Tannoys need and also the power to cope with the transients of the kind of music I enjoy ...

From what I've read it is harder to get a pure valve amp set-up to tick all the boxes with the Tannoys but sure it's not impossible. At some point I will probably try a 2 box solution but very happy with the current amp for now.