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Barry
24-06-2015, 19:39
New addition to the Baz Cave


My Sony CDP XB930 player has just been retired and replaced by a Studer Revox CD221 professional CD player. The Sony player has given sterling service and I’m more than happy with the SQ.

So why change? Well my mission is to have a system that is fully balanced, source to speakers. The amplification is fully balanced, and shortly so too will the record playing side of things. I’m also attracted to professional quality gear: for the reliability, robustness of construction as well as sound quality. The Studer Revox C221 is such a beast. Mine was made in Switzerland and is an ex-broadcast unit from Poland.

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/010_zpsyaszhik1.jpg


Being a professional design it has a number of features which are eminently desirable when used in a broadcast studio, but are somewhat quirky for use in a domestic system. The first is that the on-off switch is at the rear of the unit, so when the unit is rack mounted the switch is inaccessible. This makes sense when used for broadcasting, but could be inconvenient domestically. Now some are of the belief that source components ought to the left powered up constantly – my preamps and phono equalisation amplifiers are, however if the CD221 is kept switched on, the laser is also on. This could shorten the life of the laser, so to ‘switch off’ the player after the disc has finished one has to leave the disc in the drawer, select track ‘0’ and then press ‘Pause’. This stops the motor and switches the laser off. If the machine is switched off at the mains, it can reportedly take up to 45 minutes for the electronics to warm up!

The second feature that is not needed is the sophisticated cuing and time functions. When a disc is loaded, the player displays information such as the number of tracks, total playing time etc, just as do domestic machines. However if 'Play' is pressed, the timer counts down and when the first track has finished, the player stops and displays the next track. To play the second track the ‘Play’ button has to be pressed again, and so on. Again all this makes sense if the machine is used in a broadcast environment: the DJ needs to know how much time is left when playing a particular track and doesn’t necessarily want to play any subsequent tracks. To get around all this one simply switches off the timer, fade, cue and pause functions; the timer then counts upwards and the player will play all the tracks in turn.

For those who like this sort of thing, here’s a photo of the ‘inners’:

http://www.audiofilek.pl/media/djcatalog2/images/item/3/316_image_1_l.jpg


I wasn’t expecting much of an improvement in sound quality, if any. But my goodness - this machine rocks! The sound stage is massive: wide and deep, much more so than with Sony and the focus is amazing. I played Dave Brubeck’s ‘Time Out’ and I really felt as though I had been transported to the recording session. The sense of solidity of the players and of the space around them was palpable. Next up was Stevie Ray Vaughan’s ‘Couldn’t Stand the Weather’, and the track ‘Tin Pan Alley’ was astonishing: I was noticing detail that I hadn’t heard before. To say I’m delighted is an understatement.


Now that summer seems to be with us I’m employing my ‘summer amps’: Quad 510 monoblocks, which are replacing the Levinson ML-2s. No loss of quality has been noticed so far, which again demonstrates that professional audio equipment is not only about reliability and brute force, some of it can display great subtlety and finesse.

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/007_zpsm3maass7.jpg
(Apologies for the dust!)

Anyway enough of typing, I’m off to listen to some more tunes: classical, jazz, folk, world – it could be a late night!

walpurgis
24-06-2015, 19:47
Looks a nice bit of kit Barry. Not a model I know anything about.

Like the ML gear. That always sounds good.

Marco
24-06-2015, 20:29
Brilliant stuff, Barry - that Revox is one sexy bit of kit! :eek:

Some folk just don't 'get' what professional equipment is all about, and why, in many instances, the best stuff can sonically outperform most 'domestic' hi-fi equipment. I also applaud your decision to go all-balanced, as when done right, the sonic advantages can be substantial.

Anyway, I hope that the Revox provides many years of musical enjoyment :cool:

Marco.

Anthony K
24-06-2015, 20:46
:youtheman:

That's a damned fine looking machine ,may I be so bold as to ask what that Red Book slaying beast set you back?

Barry
24-06-2015, 22:52
:youtheman:

That's a damned fine looking machine, may I be so bold as to ask what that Red Book slaying beast set you back?

Hi Anthony,

The C221 cost me £400 plus carriage of £50. The machine is in perfect condition, both cosmetically and sound wise, so I'm very happy with the outlay.

It's a bitstream player; which is not liked by some, but sounds fine to my ears. The transport is a Philips CDM4-Pro and the DAC uses an SAA 7321 device (though I have heard that other, similar, SAA devices were also used).

Barry
24-06-2015, 23:21
Brilliant stuff, Barry - that Revox is one sexy bit of kit! :eek:

Some folk just don't 'get' what professional equipment is all about, and why, in many instances, the best stuff can sonically outperform most 'domestic' hi-fi equipment. I also applaud your decision to go all-balanced, as when done right, the sonic advantages can be substantial.

Anyway, I hope that the Revox provides many years of musical enjoyment :cool:

Marco

Thanks Marco.

There's something to be said for using professional gear vis á vis 'domestic' gear. However some gear that was intended for the domestic market have been embraced by recording studios, record archives and broadcasters: Thorens TD124s and Garrard 301/401 turntables are such an example, as are SME arms and Shure, Stanton and Ortofon cartridges. Ferrograph and Revox tape machines were used by the BBC for many years.
Of course the reverse is also true, witness EMT turntables and cartridges; Studer, Uher and Nagra reel-to-reel tape machines; Crown/Amcron amplifiers, as well as the classic Denon 103 cartridge. And no-one needs reminding of the BBC designed LS 3/5a speaker! Recently there was a thread reporting the admirable properties of a Technics(?) professional CD player.

As you know I'm a bit of a Quad admirer; their products, such as the 33, 303, 405 (and modifications thereof), the 50D and 50E monoblocks, as well as the 521 and 522 are/were used in large numbers by the BBC. Not only are they built like brick out-houses, their sound quality is very good indeed. No 'brute force and ignorance' here.

Spectral Morn
24-06-2015, 23:26
Hi Barry, very nice but keep in mind that European XLRs are wired differently to USA ones so the signal from the Revox will be out of phase. All that's required is to swap hot and cold round at the preamp end to restore correct phase.

I used to run Pathos amplification and the phase was off because the Marantz CDplayer was USA wired and I could hear the phase being wrong so I got cables adapted and it sounded much better.

Worth thinking about.



Regards Neil

Barry
24-06-2015, 23:48
Hi Barry, very nice but keep in mind that European XLRs are wired differently to USA ones so the signal from the Revox will be out of phase. All that's required is to swap hot and cold round at the preamp end to restore correct phase.

I used to run Pathos amplification and the phase was off because the Marantz CDplayer was USA wired and I could hear the phase being wrong so I got cables adapted and it sounded much better.

Worth thinking about.

Regards Neil

Hi Neil,

Thanks for that - I was aware of the lack of a universal convention concerning XLRs (both in gender and polarity), but it had slipped my mind. My amplification is Levinson, an American company, whereas Revox and Quad are European, so I'll check and if necessary correct; however last time I played about with absolute phase/polarity, I couldn't hear any difference.

Macca
25-06-2015, 07:31
Great find that, Barry. Not surprised it out-performs the Sony 930 (I have one of those) I'll wager it is a whole order of magnitude better. The two things I really liked about my brodcast player were the sheer weight it put behind the instruments - it was actually quite scary at times - and the inky blacks. nothing to do with bitstream/multibit or the transport and everything to do with the serious power supplies IMO.

Andrei
25-06-2015, 07:39
Hi Barry, very nice but keep in mind that European XLRs are wired differently to USA ones so the signal from the Revox will be out of phase. All that's required is to swap hot and cold round at the preamp end to restore correct phase.
Regards Neil
I have been toying with the idea of running a balanced cable between my pre and power - both English. Presumably it would not matter matter of the XLR cable was made in US, so long as the two components are wired the same?

Barry
25-06-2015, 09:13
I have been toying with the idea of running a balanced cable between my pre and power - both English. Presumably it would not matter matter of the XLR cable was made in US, so long as the two components are wired the same?

Hi Andrei,

Yes any balanced cable fitted with XLRs will do. How far apart are your pre and power amps? If they are near (say only two or three foot apart), then you may not notice much improvement. If however your power amp is located close to your speakers and you use long length interconnects back to your preamp, then the improvement could be considerable. The interconnects running between my pre and power amps are 12m long (nearly 40')!

Andrei
25-06-2015, 21:53
Thanks Barry.
The correct length at the moment would be 30 cm! - one components sits on top of the other. They manual recommends balanced cables but a lot of advice in manuals is based on 'one size fits all'.
As for 12m, is you pre hidden under your bed?

Spectral Morn
26-06-2015, 08:48
Thanks Barry.
The correct length at the moment would be 30 cm! - one components sits on top of the other. They manual recommends balanced cables but a lot of advice in manuals is based on 'one size fits all'.
As for 12m, is you pre hidden under your bed?

It's worth checking how the XLRs are wired in the electronics. If the same company's then wiring should be the same in the pre and power, if two different companies then I would check just in case one company uses the American way.

I disagree with Barry, yes XLR usually has more voltage than RCA and thus allows easier driving of longer cables but it is the rejection of noise that is the advantage here and lowering the noise floor is regardless of length of cable a big plus and in my view experience audible.

Now the other question is, are the items truly balanced, having dual differential circuit topology. Having XLR outs does not make a design balanced.

Wiki says this................ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector

'Pin Function
1 Chassis ground (cable shield)
2 Positive polarity terminal for balanced audio circuits (aka "hot")
3 Negative polarity terminal for balanced circuits (aka "cold")[17]
Prior to the introduction of this standard, the wiring of pins 2 and 3 varied. The pin 2 "hot" and pin 3 "cold" convention was typically used by European and Japanese equipment manufacturers, but American companies used pin 3 "hot" and pin 2 "cold". This caused problems when interconnecting equipment with unbalanced connections. The pin 3 "hot" convention is now obsolete but is still found on vintage equipment.[18] Pin 1 has always been ground and/or shield if the cable is shielded, and many connectors connect it internally to the connector shell or case.

Although covered in industry technical standards,[19][20] there is still some disagreement on the best way to handle the use of pin 1 for grounding (earthing). The main controversy is whether the shell of the connector should be connected to pin 1 or the shield, or left floating. AES standards mentioned above recommend that shells of cable-mounted connectors should never be connected to pin 1 or the shield, because inadvertent contact of the shell with another grounded surface while in use can create unwanted current paths for fault current, potentially causing hum and other noise. On the other hand, equipment containing active circuitry should always have pin 1 connected to the conductive enclosure of the equipment as close as possible to the point where the signal enters the enclosure. The argument centers on the radio frequency shielding provided by the shell of the connector, which may be reduced if it is left floating. An alternative solution is to connect the shell to pin 1 and the shield through a small value capacitor, providing RF shielding but allowing very little audio-frequency current to flow. This capability can be built into a fixed jack or a cable terminated with XLR connectors.'


Regards Neil

Barry
02-07-2015, 16:27
Hi Neil,

I've just checked my gear and all of the Levinson equipment (ML-26 and ML-28 preamps and the ML-2 power amps), as well as the Quad 510 and 520f power amps all use XLRs wired following the European (IEC) convention:

pin 1 - earth
pin 2 - +ve (hot, or non-inverting)
pin 3 - -ve (cold, or inverting)

The Revox C221 also follows this convention. Furthermore the Levinson and Quad amps are non-inverting, so no problems there! :)

I agree that the advantages of balanced line interconnects are two-fold:

(1) external interference, being common mode, will be rejected by cancellation,

(2) since the signal does not share the earth or 0V rail, any mains-bourne interference or power supply noise will not add to the signal.

The advantages are, of course, independent of cable length: it is just that for short cable lengths (~ 1 metre), I doubt if balanced line interconnects would have audible advantages over un-balanced connections. That said, the balanced line interconnects between the CD player and the pre-amp are 50cm long, as I believe in using cables that are as short as necessary (if only for the sake of neatness).

Regards
Barry

Barry
02-07-2015, 16:39
Thanks Barry.
The correct length at the moment would be 30 cm! - one components sits on top of the other. They manual recommends balanced cables but a lot of advice in manuals is based on 'one size fits all'.
As for 12m, is you pre hidden under your bed?

:lol: No Andrei,

The amps are located directly behind each speaker (so the speaker leads are only ~50cm long) and the speakers are ~7m from my listening position and from the source(s) and pre-amps. However to run a cable round to the left-hand speaker, I need a further 3 - 4m.

Regards
Barry

Marco
02-07-2015, 22:22
They manual recommends balanced cables but a lot of advice in manuals is based on 'one size fits all'.


Never trust anything that says 'one size fits all', as your recent escapades with stockings and suspender belts should've taught you... ;)

Marco.

The Black Adder
06-07-2015, 13:02
lovely, Barry..

I would love to get my hands on a pair of 510's.

Barry
06-07-2015, 13:08
Thanks Joe - I am very pleased with them. :)