View Full Version : linn lp12 or something else
im thinking of upgrading to the above turntable,whats a fair price to pay for one without an arm?
or whats a good alternative?
cheers.
j.
Some people say the Ariston RD 80 could match a Linn lp12 (I think) :eyebrows:
And, somebody will be along soon to tell you I'm talking rubbish, I'm sure!
lol and you just happen to have one for sale eh. :)
To be fair, I think the RD80 is similar to an LP12, but I don't know how close they are. I also don't know if the RD80 would be an upgrade for you. (But, yes, I do have an RD80 at a bargain price!)
Lots over lp12's and lots of differing prices tbh. Dave dslr ay be your best bet. he used to deal with them I think.
Familiarity/contempt and now curiosity again, knowing what I know ;)
The later the LP12 the better it'll sound with far less to do to it IMO. The plinths were the biggest downfall with so many early ones - sometimes soft mounting blocks not always glued properly to the plinth frame (Linn screwed them in from early 83 or so). After mid 85, Linn added deep corner fillets to the corners, which are easy to spot from around the arm-board edges and this was the start of a much easier deck to set up (I think around s/n 75*** but don't hold me to it).
In my experience, it was after the dealer purge and the introduction of the Cirkus kit and the addition of the motor corner bolt in the early 90's that properly started to sort out the LP12 as a serious 'high fidelity' deck that minimised the colourations it had been afflicted with since the Ittok appeared in 1980 IMO. A bit dark toned, the 'bloom' had all but gone and stereo focus was far superior with lesser cartridges.
The above is obviously opinion borne of my own experiences. I'd love to try one again one day. A good working example certainly makes iffy 1970's vinyl cuts sound more interesting than a technically more 'accurate' kind of deck.
Good luck...
thanks for your advice and also on my AR turntable which i fear is only a matter of time before things get worse hence this thread.
:)
walpurgis
23-06-2015, 17:06
The Ariston RD 80 is no match for an LP12. One of the RD 11 variants could do the job though.
You could of course take another approach.
This is one of mine (excuse the dust):
http://i60.tinypic.com/2uptlr4.jpg
It sounds fabulous!
what is it geoff? (excuse my ignorance)
Wakefield Turntables
23-06-2015, 17:18
Why not search out a Heybrook TT2? I've owned a LP12 and would say don't believe the hype. The Alphason Sonata TT with external PSU is also a LP12 beater.
The Ariston RD 80 is no match for an LP12.
See, I told you this would happen. ;)
walpurgis
23-06-2015, 17:39
Toshiba SR-370. A hefty beast, weighs half as much again than my Techie did. I have a spare one too, just in case.
walpurgis
23-06-2015, 17:39
Why not search out a Heybrook TT2? I've owned a LP12 and would say don't believe the hype. The Alphason Sonata TT with external PSU is also a LP12 beater.
Excellent suggestion.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toshiba-SR-370-Studiodrive-als-Laufwerk-/151708514651?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item235288395b
lol ive just been looking at that grant!
i also love the look of the alphason,none on ebay at the moment,are they rare?
just to put this to bed re my turntable,with fresh oil you cant feel the play,it sounds better than it ever has (could be the arm dressing done properly) so am i being hasty or is that play cause for concern down the line?
Wakefield Turntables
23-06-2015, 17:59
i also love the look of the alphason,none on ebay at the moment,are they rare?
As rocking 'orse shat!
lol ive just been looking at that grant!
i also love the look of the alphason,none on ebay at the moment,are they rare?
just to put this to bed re my turntable,with fresh oil you cant feel the play,it sounds better than it ever has (could be the arm dressing done properly) so am i being hasty or is that play cause for concern down the line?
keep your eyes out for another bearing or a tatty deck and strip it for spares.
yep thats the cheap option,its on my ebay search list. :)
Why not search out a Heybrook TT2? I've owned a LP12 and would say don't believe the hype. The Alphason Sonata TT with external PSU is also a LP12 beater.
The LP12 did things with vinyl (deemed good at the time) that these two above didn't, the Heybrook especially with the cast aluminium sub-chassis. I like the later TT2 very much and it's a doddle to set up if you're now used to cable dressing. Whether it's really better than the AR deck with fettled bearing, I wouldn't like to say, although the TT2 never had this issue and was always very well made and finished.
Direct Drives? Oh definitely if you can find a good one and site it properly. Mid-bass colouration is the issue if siting/feet/mats etc. aren't carefully attended to - an issue then, but not now :) The better ones don't exhibit the servo hunting of many earlier ones of the second rank (ones using the infamous OEM Matsushita motor) and will stand fair comparison with anything.
Clive197
23-06-2015, 22:36
Why not search out a Heybrook TT2? I've owned a LP12 and would say don't believe the hype. The Alphason Sonata TT with external PSU is also a LP12 beater.
I owned a LP12 for over 10yrs and do not regret moving it on. Way over rated. I've never heard the TT2 or Alphason but would certainly take this advice to search out one.
337alant
24-06-2015, 00:46
I owned a LP12 for over 10yrs and do not regret moving it on. Way over rated. I've never heard the TT2 or Alphason but would certainly take this advice to search out one.
Me also, I sold my LP12 last year (£500) and my Mitchel Gyro/Orbe which are very nice turntables BTW
I kept my Pioneer PLC590 and Garrard 401 and Technichs 1200, the Pioneer 590 is the one I use daily but again is quite rare, the Pioneer PL71 is nice and come up on ebay quite often.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7402/16186495530_6da9049487_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qEm2c9)IMG_2247 (https://flic.kr/p/qEm2c9) by Alan Towell (https://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/), on Flickr
Alan
Colin151
24-06-2015, 16:56
I've had about 5 different LP12s in different incarnations and quite like the LP12 in general, but it is a bit pricey these days on the used market. I preferred the 80s non cirkus/Valhalla/Ittok combo to the later versions. Softer and more coloured but more musical and endearing sounding to my ears. The lingo PSU and Cirkus made it more neutral but also made it sound more like a CD player IMO, though many people have the opposite opinion and prefer the Cirkus/Lingoed LP12. It also depends on system matching though of course. A non cirkus LP12 might be too warm and soft sounding with a warm sounding amp and speakers. Didn't like the Ekos arm either. More dynamic but more forward and hard soudiing than the Ittok, which was not to my tastes. I thought the Ittok was more refined and more musical. The Naim Aro is a good arm and very musical and clean sounding, but it only works well on a non cirus deck IMO (otherwise it sounds too thin), is it a bit rolled off at the frequency extremes (as it's a unipivot) and is quite pricey too.
The Ariston RD80 is not bad at all for the price they go for. The RD11 or the more common RD11S are better though. Had both the RD80 and RD11S, but the speed stability was not up to LP12 standards. No electronic PSU. Not tried the Heybrook TT2, AR decks, or Alphason decks but would like to. The Pink Triangles (PT One, PT Too, and Anniversary) are supposed to be good (and mroe neutral than the LP12) but you need to check that the ruby bearing is OK.
Direct drive decks usually offer a more neutral sound and a more solid bass than Belt drives. With a belt drive deck you are sacrificing dynamics and bass punch for detail and refinement to some degree. A mate of mine rates the Sansui 929 but they are rare. The more common 828 is also supposed to be good. Both are probably better than your standard usual Technics 1200/1210 mk2 decks. If you would like to try a more neutral deck direct drive might be the way to go. Upgraded 1200/1210s come up in the classifieds sometimes and are good value IMO. Even better is the SP10 mk2 in a plinth with arms. These also come up sometimes, but less often and are more pricey. One thing I like about the Technics quartz decks is the speed stability.. Spot on. There are also the 1600/1700/800 mk2 Technics decks which are like the 1200 mk2 but have syspension. Those can be good value. A little hard to find though. I liek the VTA on the fly. Avoid the MK1 versions though as the Servo speed system can drift. The 1300/1400/1500 mk2 models are also supposed to be good.
There are also plenty of other good direct drive decks. Pioneers, Micro Seskis, Denons, Sonys etc. There are some really nice battleship looking high end ones from the 1980s.. some of them rare and pricey.
As for Idler decks. Tried a Garrard 401 once and didn't like it. Good bass but treble was too rough/unrefined for me, and poor speed stability. The 301 might be better though but it's very pricey. Lencos can be good and are well worth considering IMO. Souped up ones sometimes turn up for sale in slate custom slate plinths etc.
Always wanted to try a Thorens TD124 MK2 but the prices have put me off....
One issue to look out for with belt drive decks that use AC synchronous motors (like the LP12 and many others) is fine adjustment of the pitch. On many decks the only way to adjust the pitch and get it right is to try a different belt and hope one works better or to do a hack job and fit tape around the inner platter. The latter trick only works with a deck that is running too fast though ( I had to do that with the Ariston RD80 I had.) One good thing about the LP12 is that the motor can be tilted either way so the speed can be finely adjusted. Not sure any other belt drives have that very useful feature. I had an original Michell Orbe for a while (which was a nice sounding deck) with the original AC PSU and motor but it had this problem with the pitch (it ran too fast) and the only way to adjust it was with different belts and pulley... tried loads of them (Michell were very helpful). Eventually found a belt and pulley combo that were near spot on but it was a PITA!. On the later DC version of the Orbe the speed can be adjusted far more easily.....
The speed can be easily adjusted on the Linn axis by a couple or pots which is handy. The sound is mediocre though IMO and a long was off an LP12. Aristons etc (and likely others) are better from my experience.
Some differening opinions but the SMEs are nice decks IMO. Especially the 20 and 30 models. Pricey though.
thanks for taking the time to write that informative reply Colin,very helpful and food for thought.
i like the look of the pioneer pl direct drives but as they go for £500+ im a bit scared to lay out that sort of cash,my turntable experience is limited to just 2, a sansui sr-212 and the AR im using now.
i supose if im gonna get another deck its gotta be a move forward in sonics and not a sideways step.i'll be using a mission 774 arm by the way with a sony 700es amp.
thanks.
j.
Colin151
24-06-2015, 19:14
No probs. Hope it helped though I should have been concentrating on more budget stuff!
If you are after a direct drive (which will have more dynamics and bass punch than a belt drive) you might want to also look at the Technics decks I mentioned. Since the 1200/1210 mk2 were disconitnued the used prices have shot up. Not sure how much they are secondhand at the mo. Perhpas £300-400. There are however other bargains out there. For example I got a Technics 1700 Mk2 last year for £120. Nice deck and that was cheap. Has the same arm as the 1200/1210 Mk2 and pretty much the same as those decks but with a suspension system. The only issue with direct drive is that the tonal balance can become a bit more CD/digital like (i.e. more neutral) It certainly is with the Technics decks compared to belt drive. Belt drives are more coloured and dynamically compromised to some degree but many people find them more listenable. Also depends on system matching. Tube kit can help with direct drives to add some euphonics if required (say a tube phono stage). I've not tried DD Pioneers yet. They are rated very well.
In the belt drive area I was thinking of throwing in the Manticore Mantra, Systemdecks and chepaer Regas. The first two have electronic PSUs I think (which is good). I think an Ariston or Heybrook would sound better than these though so there is not much point if you want a good sounding upgrade. Same case for the Linn Axis.
The Aristons and Heybrook should be a good imporvement on the Sansui for less than LP12 prices (The Alphasons are rare unfortunaltey) The LP12 certainly would be an improvement in any incarnation IMO, but it will cost. Watch the pitch issue I mentioned with other decks though.
I admit I did realy like the Ariston RD11S and it it wasn't for pitch stablity issues and the pitch being a bit off I would have kept it. It's somewhat similar sounding to an early non cirkus LP12 in terms of being warm and lyrical, but it's kind of bigger sounding. Very charming sounding deck. Got it cheap at the time (about £130 I think) but they have increased in price quite a lot since them (it was about 6 years ago). RD80 is also pretty nice but not as good as the RD11S IMO. The original RD11 is basically the same as an early LP12 but they are rarere than the RD11S. The RD11S has a heavier platter than the LP12.
From what I have read the TT2 is really good but the MK2 version with the better aluminium subchassis is harder to find unfortuantely. Not sure how much furhter back the MK1 version is.
Lenco is the other lower priced big hitter IMO but a deck might need some sorting out and updating. GL75 and GL78 are good, as are the GL59 or GL70. Getting one already sorted in a good plinth is a good idea. Have seen some quite tricked out ones go cheap in the classifieds in the past for less than £500. The idler sound is good IMO. It kind of gives you something in between DD and belt drive. Garrads are now too pricey IMO and I personally preferred the Lencos I had anyway (had a GL75 with a Linn LVV arm fitted, and a stock GL59. The latter was a very nice sounding deck, although the cartridge choice is limtied due to the headshell lacking adjustment).
thanks for taking the time to write that informative reply Colin,very helpful and food for thought.
i like the look of the pioneer pl direct drives but as they go for £500+ im a bit scared to lay out that sort of cash,my turntable experience is limited to just 2, a sansui sr-212 and the AR im using now.
i supose if im gonna get another deck its gotta be a move forward in sonics and not a sideways step.i'll be using a mission 774 arm by the way with a sony 700es amp.
thanks.
j.
No probs. Hope it helped though I shoud have been concentrating on more budget stuff!
sorry mate i should have been more clearer, the sansui was my first turntable i bought to get back into vinyl last year,i now have the AR the turntable (with the suspect bearing,hence this thread) so not looking for a budget turntable.i reckon i could go to £500,unless thats what you class as budget! lol :)
Colin151
24-06-2015, 19:46
Doh!, - sorry. My fault. I misread your post.
The AR is not a bad deck. Quite similar to the other belt drive decks mentioned. Shame the bearing has gone though. Do you like the belt drive sound or are you looking for something with more neutral and more dynamic?. If the latter I would go for idler or Direct drive. A souped up Technics 1200/1210 Mk2 or a pre tricked out Lenco would be good bets and very good value IMO (If you could wait for one to appear for sale. They do appear from time to time.) Would be around your budget or maybe a bit over. With Belt drive you are firmly in the Heybrook/Ariston type area. An armless LP12 might also be possible if you look around for a cheap one.
I've occassionally seen Michell Gryodecks go cheap in the past, but a normally priced one would be over your budget. They are quite popular, though I've not tried one myself. More neutral than other belt drive decks but still musical sounding. I thought the Orbe was quite a bit more musical than the two cirkus LP12s I had and it had a nice big sound with good soundstaging, good dynamics and resolution. Nightmare getting the pitch right with the AC verison Orbe though. Same case for Gyrodecks. Stick with the pitch adjustable later DC verisons if you ever look at those decks.
sorry mate i should have been more clearer, the sansui was my first turntable i bought to get back into vinyl last year,i now have the AR the turntable (with the suspect bearing,hence this thread) so not looking for a budget turntable.i reckon i could go to £500,unless thats what you class as budget! lol :)
Audio Advent
24-06-2015, 19:55
I'd agree with Colin regarding LP12s - they have a strong reputation around the world which in turn causes it to be kind of over-hyped and therefore the prices are high in comparison to some other very good turntables, or in other words the same money would likely buy a better turntable at the £500 mark. For £500, you'd get a pre-cirkus, early to mid 80s deck with the lowest Linn Basik arm, that judging by ebay prices.
I've seen Alphason Sonatas go for the same with a cheaper Alphason arm (cheaper than the HR100 arm) and I've also seen the odd one slip through the net so to speak with an HR100 on it too for not much more. LP12s next to never slip through the net such is their worldwide reputation and demand which is why I wouldn't be looking at them (little chance of bargain and I like a bargain). You also have the idea in people's minds that they can buy an older LP12 and upgrade to closer to the latest over time, saving thousands on a new spec deck - that thought also keeps prices up.
Alphason Sonatas are very good decks (I have one) and aren't as rare as hens teeth exactly as there are plenty around, but perhaps together with the Atlas external PSU are on the rare side for sale. The Atlas PSU though isn't a very complicated thing internally if you're up for DIY.
Really does depend on what you want or don't want to spend though. Can spend time rooting around for bargains and take chances on models you've not spent a long time researching or just slap down a wad of cash and go for an average priced version of something you have researched...
A tatty AR to replace your bearing though might do the trick and you'll be happy!
On that note, does anyone know if the less popular black shiny plinthed ARs or the AR-Xs have the same bearing? Both go for less money than the veneered AR anyway.
Audio Advent
24-06-2015, 19:57
Upside of the LP12 is of course the number of them out there and the number of people ready to help with set-up or repair over the years. They're pretty solid and reliable too.
im thinking of upgrading to the above turntable,whats a fair price to pay for one without an arm?
or whats a good alternative?
cheers.
j.
I've owned a few LP12s over the years but these days they just don't do it for me.
If you have £500 burning a hole I would say best bang for buck would be keep what you have and spend the money getting your deck serviced and spend the rest on a cartridge upgrade.
walpurgis
24-06-2015, 20:04
Here's a decent TT. likely to go at sensible money by the look of it. SME mount, so the 774 bolts straight on.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Technics-Direct-Drive-SL-150-SL150-Hi-end-Turntable-Record-Deck-/261941916941?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cfcf4750d
I had the SL-1800. Similar but with Technics integrated arm. It was a surprisingly good sounding unit. Quality engineering!
On that note, does anyone know if the less popular black shiny plinthed ARs or the AR-Xs have the same bearing? Both go for less money than the veneered AR anyway.
Yes I belive the AR eb101 does use the same sub chassis and platter.
That's certainly the cheapest option for me.
walpurgis
24-06-2015, 20:09
Here's another. Rotel RP-3000. SME fitting again. Decent sound quality.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotel-RP-3000-Direct-Drive-Turntable-Ship-Worldwide-/121682259722?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c54d3ef0a
Colin151
24-06-2015, 20:24
Upside of the LP12 is of course the number of them out there and the number of people ready to help with set-up or repair over the years. They're pretty solid and reliable too.
That's true and a good +ve. Like I say I personally really like the bevelled pulley and tilting motor as a way to fine adjust the pitch. It's very handy. Much harder to get the pitch right on other AC synchronous motor decks.
Colin151
24-06-2015, 20:28
These decks sound nice but I would probably avoid the older servo Technics decks unless v cheap. That was a tip a mate in America told me. The 1600/1700/1800 mk1 decks are Servo. The mk2 versions are quartz and have much better pitch stability, and a different arm with VTA on the fly too (the same arm as the 1200/1210). Harder to find than the MK1s though...
Here's a decent TT. likely to go at sensible money by the look of it. SME mount, so the 774 bolts straight on.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Technics-Direct-Drive-SL-150-SL150-Hi-end-Turntable-Record-Deck-/261941916941?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cfcf4750d
I had the SL-1800. Similar but with Technics integrated arm. It was a surprisingly good sounding unit. Quality engineering!
Colin151
24-06-2015, 20:40
The Alphason Sonata sounds v nice. You are making me was to try one... The HR100S is supposed to be a superb arm too so finding an Sonata with one of those would be very nice. Does yours have the Altas electronic PSU as well? Any way to fine adjust the pitch?
I'd agree with Colin regarding LP12s - they have a strong reputation around the world which in turn causes it to be kind of over-hyped and therefore the prices are high in comparison to some other very good turntables, or in other words the same money would likely buy a better turntable at the £500 mark. For £500, you'd get a pre-cirkus, early to mid 80s deck with the lowest Linn Basik arm, that judging by ebay prices.
I've seen Alphason Sonatas go for the same with a cheaper Alphason arm (cheaper than the HR100 arm) and I've also seen the odd one slip through the net so to speak with an HR100 on it too for not much more. LP12s next to never slip through the net such is their worldwide reputation and demand which is why I wouldn't be looking at them (little chance of bargain and I like a bargain). You also have the idea in people's minds that they can buy an older LP12 and upgrade to closer to the latest over time, saving thousands on a new spec deck - that thought also keeps prices up.
Alphason Sonatas are very good decks (I have one) and aren't as rare as hens teeth exactly as there are plenty around, but perhaps together with the Atlas external PSU are on the rare side for sale. The Atlas PSU though isn't a very complicated thing internally if you're up for DIY.
Really does depend on what you want or don't want to spend though. Can spend time rooting around for bargains and take chances on models you've not spent a long time researching or just slap down a wad of cash and go for an average priced version of something you have researched...
A tatty AR to replace your bearing though might do the trick and you'll be happy!
On that note, does anyone know if the less popular black shiny plinthed ARs or the AR-Xs have the same bearing? Both go for less money than the veneered AR anyway.
Alphason Sonatas are very good decks (I have one).
wanna sell it?? :eyebrows:
Audio Advent
27-06-2015, 16:47
No thanks :) Took me a while to find mine after missing a similar one 8 years ago on ebay for a song, this only the second one I've seen (not that I was particularly looking). Mine's actually called a Symphony which is a bit different and was their last, ulimate model. It does have an Atlas supply but it's a standard one for the deck with what I think is the same Atlas innards. Still.. without wanting to gloat, I picked it up for £500 with the HR100 arm a year and a bit ago which goes to show what you can pick up if you bide your time.
These decks sound nice but I would probably avoid the older servo Technics decks unless v cheap. That was a tip a mate in America told me. The 1600/1700/1800 mk1 decks are Servo. The mk2 versions are quartz and have much better pitch stability, and a different arm with VTA on the fly too (the same arm as the 1200/1210). Harder to find than the MK1s though...
With respect, I don't think that's an issue in the top-line Technics oldies as they don't over-servo like the rather nasty OEM drive that the Rotel 3000 and others use. What CAN be an issue with these pre-quartz top-line SL's like the SL150 is that the speed presets need cleaning - two on the case and two on the main circuit board, which are difficult to get to. The switches need a squirt of switch-cleaner/lubricant too, but usually come up fine and reliable again. I've had two in very recent times.
The main bearing on these is similar in concept to the SL1200mk2, but obviously slightly different in execution I think. The SL150 bearing base is totally enclosed, but still runs on a delrin or similar thrust pad, which is fine for the task - NO platter wobble or 'rock' either. Again, I've used trusty EP80 as the sleeve is brass and plenty in the well at the bottom and the platters run quietly and with no excess drag, which really would upset these earlier drives.
The 1200/1300/1400/1500/1600/1700 and 1800 mk1 models had very solid and substantial tonearms fitted to them. Sometimes the bearings needed to be reset (both mine did) as they rattle, but once the original headshell is replaced with either the low mass current one, or a Sumiko type the arm should easily do justice to anything that tracks over 1.5g - I've known people tracking Shure V15 III's in SL1300's at 1g, but the bias isn't reliable under 1.5g I've discovered.
Finally, I've had beneficial results replacing the exit audio leads from deck to amp. The original cabling looked to be of good quality, but I don't think the years have been kind to the materials used, as cheapo Van Damme pro-Patch mic cable makes a clearly audible improvement to the sonic quality of the deck.
P.S. Lids MUST be removed when playing - it really makes a huge difference on these. As for the lovely looking SL110 and original SL120, change the mat and sink the chassis in a suitable sand-box, as the plinth is incredibly resonant with next to useless feet I remember.
Yes I belive the AR eb101 does use the same sub chassis and platter.
That's certainly the cheapest option for me.
Styling and tonearm apart, the EB101 had the later bearing I believe (confirmation needed please) and was considered something of a bargain at the time.
Of the earlier AR decks, the 77XB is the one to avoid, as it had the sh*tty wobbling main bearing (from memory of a couple of samples) and a stylish but very flimsy looking headshell. The XB's I knew and sold were OK here I remember, the matchbox shell giving surprisingly good rigidity. T'would be interesting to see how the re-manufactured main bearing shaft is in terms of clearances or whether it was a bearing sleeve issue. The arms on these older decks look to be a dogs dinner, but my word do they sound great with 1.25g tracking Shures and ADC's I recall. Today, I bet an AT120E or a 440MLa would be a superb match, tracking at 1.4g or so, the arm friction and tonearm-wire dressing giving some sort of artificial bias correction.
Rush2112
28-06-2015, 21:00
Well RD 80 is not really on a par with Linn LP12 with like for like arm and cartridge ! If your serious about belt drive and really all about sound then the list is substantial but if we are looking for bargains then look at the likes of Pink Triangle Anniversary, Roksan Xerxes, Michell Gyrodec or Orbe, Alaphson Sonata, Townsend Rock, Kuzma Stabi and last but no means least the veritable Linn LP12 a turntable with a myriad of upgrades so it's worth doing some research to determine how far down the upgrade path any potential Linn has been taken! Before I get berated by lovers of Thorens, Ariston, Origin Live, Avid etc etc yes there are others also worthy of consideration too !
thats pretty much what my ebay watch list looks like :)
From what I have read the TT2 is really good but the MK2 version with the better aluminium subchassis is harder to find unfortuantely. Not sure how much furhter back the MK1 version is.
Not so. Only the first thousand or so of the seven thousand odd TT2s produced had the steel chassis, and only the first three or four hundred of those had the black platter. As to the sonic difference, despite Dave's (DSJR) continued assertions, I prefer the steel one. Although marginally less tonally accurate (it suffered from a slight bass bloom) the steel chassis had a more engaging liveliness to it. Once we'd made the tooling though there was no going back. Bear in mind though that we're only talking nuances here. The differences are marginal.
Whit it is rare is the TPS power supply which appeared very late on in the story. Even rarer is one that still works. However, swapping back to direct mains operation is easy enough if one turns up, although you'll lose the 45 rpm.
incidentally, the Mission 774 is pretty much the perfect parter for the TT2. If I'd been clever enough to design an arm to go with it, I like to think I would have come up with something similar!
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