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The Vinyl Adventure
13-09-2009, 16:46
is this any good

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Knosti-Disco-Antistat-Record-Cleaning-Machine-Superb_W0QQitemZ390091241423QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTur ntable_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5ad33ff7cf&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

any other suggestions? thats about my budget!

Clive
13-09-2009, 17:00
Not convinced by that.

Maybe this would work well: http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/deepcleaningsystem.php

hifi_dave
13-09-2009, 17:01
IMO, it's no more effective than putting your record on a pencil and dipping it in barely lukewarm water in a bowl etc etc.

Marco
13-09-2009, 19:29
Hamish,

Send me any records you want cleaned and I'll do them for you on the VPI for a (very small) fee, and it'll include brand new sleeves. That'll give you a start and let you know how good your records can sound when they're properly clean!

If you're interested, PM me :)

Marco.

alb
13-09-2009, 19:35
That Mapleshade steamer looks like a re-badged product that used to be advertised for cleaning upholstery or something similar.

Cotlake
13-09-2009, 19:48
Hmmm, I'd not invest in a Mapleshade without the benefit of a review. I'm not sure about the wisdom of subjecting the grooves to temperature around 100C even for a short moment. Any chance of a review, Clive?

I still swear by the Okki Nokki. Probably not the best cleaner around but certainly very effective at a reasonable price. The Knosti-Disco is absolute pants. Sent mine back for a refund.

The Vinyl Adventure
13-09-2009, 20:03
I have seen these okki nokki before ... Are they good, are they still available to buy, are there cheaper versions?

NRG
13-09-2009, 20:12
is this any good

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Knosti-Disco-Antistat-Record-Cleaning-Machine-Superb_W0QQitemZ390091241423QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTur ntable_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5ad33ff7cf&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

any other suggestions? thats about my budget!


No they are pants! As your budget is tight stick to a good anti static brush like the Hunt EDA...

o0ops Greg beat me to it ;) Hi Greg! :)

The Vinyl Adventure
13-09-2009, 20:18
Cheers marco, il bare that in mind! I have a couple of disks with some fairly persistant clicks/pops
what's a vpi?

Cheers for the rest of the pointers everyone else!

Cotlake
13-09-2009, 20:27
Hi Hamish,

Have a look here.

http://www.okkinokki.co.uk/

360 may seem a lot but it's much cheaper than most of the other effective options and it really does work. I suppose it depends on the size of your library. I kept costs down by doing a joint purchase with a friend. Considering the frequency of use, a joint or even group purchase is a good way of doing it.

Regards,

Greg

PS. Hi Neal. Hope all is good with you.

The Vinyl Adventure
13-09-2009, 20:37
Hi Hamish,

Have a look here.

http://www.okkinokki.co.uk/

360 may seem a lot but it's much cheaper than most of the other effective options and it really does work. I suppose it depends on the size of your library. I kept costs down by doing a joint purchase with a friend. Considering the frequency of use, a joint or even group purchase is a good way of doing it.

Regards,

Greg

PS. Hi Neal. Hope all is good with you.

i only have about 30-40 disks but my collection expanding fast since i got the 1210... it compulive listening!
joint perchase i a god thought... just gotta think of someone i could joint it with!

DaveK
13-09-2009, 20:39
Hamish,

Send me any records you want cleaned and I'll do them for you on the VPI for a (very small) fee, and it'll include brand new sleeves. That'll give you a start and let you know how good your records can sound when they're properly clean!

If you're interested, PM me :)

Marco.

Hi Hamish,
As one very atisfied customer of this service I can thoroughly recommend it - good prices and good turnround but keep him in check regarding return postage service (nothing to get concerned about but might raise a smile on Marco's face ;) ).
I was so impressed I'm planning to send some more - no better recommendation!!
Cheers,

Marco
13-09-2009, 20:40
Cheers marco, il bare that in mind! I have a couple of disks with some fairly persistant clicks/pops
what's a vpi?


Wot I use:


http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2037/vpi.png (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/vpi.png/)


http://www.audiodestination.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_100&products_id=1197


Dude, your records will be revitalised beyond belief! :trust:

Marco.

DaveK
13-09-2009, 20:44
joint perchase i a god thought... just gotta think of someone i could joint it with!

Hi Hamish,
I might be interested but it would depend on the costs of shipping it between us - wouldn' need to be done all that often perhaps, depending on how often we buy shitty records from eBay and charity shops :lol: .
How heavy and fragile are these things - any idea?
Cheers,

CORRECTION. Just seen the price on Marco's link - bit out of my price league I'm afraid - sorry!

The Vinyl Adventure
13-09-2009, 20:48
they arnt cheap are they?!?!

Marco
13-09-2009, 20:52
Nope. The Okki-Nokki will clean records just as well, but the VPI is better built, more powerful, quieter and a bit more refined in use :)

Dave & Hamish,

If you guys were going to go 'halfers' on one, the Okki-Nokki (much cheaper) is more than good enough for the job.

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
13-09-2009, 20:59
i aint botherd about quiet and refined... i just want less clicking and popping!
cheers for the pointers

Clive
13-09-2009, 21:19
Hmmm, I'd not invest in a Mapleshade without the benefit of a review. I'm not sure about the wisdom of subjecting the grooves to temperature around 100C even for a short moment. Any chance of a review, Clive?

I still swear by the Okki Nokki. Probably not the best cleaner around but certainly very effective at a reasonable price. The Knosti-Disco is absolute pants. Sent mine back for a refund.
Hi Greg, I've heard encouraging reports of the Mappleshade - yes it does look like a cheap steam cleaner. But I've no direct experience of it. What do I use? Loricraft PRC3. I could do a review, you're getting me thinking, they've got other tweaks that look interesting, here's another: http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/nanomountsystem.php

BTW, let me know you latest bearing thoughts (same old email address).

DaveK
13-09-2009, 21:34
Nope. The Okki-Nokki will clean records just as well, but the VPI is better built, more powerful, quieter and a bit more refined in use :)

Dave & Hamish,

If you guys were going to go 'halfers' on one, the Okki-Nokki (much cheaper) is more than good enough for the job.

Marco.

Hi Guys,
Price 350 ish on eBay - still a bit expensive for me - anyone else interested?
Also, do any trade members of AoS offer them at a discount to fellow members?
Like Hamish, speed (or lack of it) and noise don't trouble me.
Cheers,

Cotlake
13-09-2009, 21:36
Nope. The Okki-Nokki will clean records just as well, but the VPI is better built, more powerful, quieter and a bit more refined in use :)Marco.

Yes exactly, the Okki Nokki is a third world clone of the VPI produced by an Indian company called 'Cadence'. It doesn't look as good but it is equally as functional. It might be noisier but that is immaterial in my view. The noise is not worth considering when it's the cleaning that is your objective and in anycase, the vacuum is only on for three revolutions of the disc per side which is well less than 30 seconds. It doesn't seem to be an issue to me. All we are about here, after all is good cleaning!

Marco
13-09-2009, 21:37
Dave, scan around for a second-hand one and go halfers on that - there are usually a few around :)

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
13-09-2009, 22:42
what do we think of this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOTH-RCM-2-RECORD-CLEANING-MACHINE-DIY-KIT_W0QQitemZ330338995597QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Con sumer_Professional_RL?hash=item4ce9bd0d8d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Marco
13-09-2009, 22:46
It's good - a bit more basic again in terms of build quality (and noisy as feck!) *but* it does the job nicely :)

Snapper (one of our mods here) uses one - and he's got about 7000 albums! ;)

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
13-09-2009, 22:49
easy to build?

The Grand Wazoo
14-09-2009, 00:20
Hamish & Dave,
I've had a Moth for several years (not a home build version, though) and it's great. It is the single best hi-fi investment I've ever made.
As Marco says, it's very noisy (think 2 vacuum cleaners running at the same time kinda noisy). It's also very heavy.

But, by God, does it suck the shite out of yer records grooves!

After I sold Marco a couple of records a while back, I asked him if my Moth got them as clean as his VPI did & he thought that it did.

It's a little less polished product but the end results seem to be similar.

It will open up a whole new world of records to you. You can buy stuff that you'd never normally dream of risking your stylus on - not only that, but you can usually beat the price down on a mucky disc!!!

Go for it!!

The Vinyl Adventure
14-09-2009, 00:36
... certainly sounds interesting! makes those charity shop buys a bit more viable! i have a copy of 'you can call me al' that i got from a charity shop - it sounds like its been sat in a skip full of bricks!
that would be the test i recon!

does anyone have any experience of building one of these moths?

Varun
14-09-2009, 08:17
Hamish,

Clicks and pops-static and grime have to be distinguished. There is also a product called grooveglide-but I never found it useful.

The cheapest- no device no machine is the Miracle Record cleaner liquid and brushes. It is said that even VPI people praise the liquid - and apparently provides better results with VPI than their own cleaning fluid.

For a starter-just buy the brushes and the liquid- put the record on a mat or a plinth-clean it then rinse it under the running tap and then leave to dry in the kitchen rack. I did it for a while before I got my VPI 16.5. Of course it is no where as good, If you can put together a suction system-say by re-using those small suction machines the hospitals use and suck the debris off-you have a home made machine. If you are a DIY man-buy a clapped out TT- and use the platter and mat to turn the record by hand.

I am sure you can do it.

Varun
14-09-2009, 08:23
and here is the link

http://www.discdoc.com/

REM
14-09-2009, 08:28
Hi Hamish

Can't comment on the Moth but I did get hold of the plans a couple of years ago and thought 'eer no way, thank you'. It might be worth your while having a word with your cabinet maker friend, he could no doubt knock one up in his sleep, believe me once you get an RCM you'll wonder how you ever managed without one. The strange thing is how much better new records sound after a clean, with all the 'mold release agent' muck removed it's scary how quiet the good old liquorice pizza can be.
Check out the Okki Nokki site, they announce it as the VIP of RCMs, wonder who they are having a go at?;)

Cheers

DaveK
14-09-2009, 08:51
what do we think of this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOTH-RCM-2-RECORD-CLEANING-MACHINE-DIY-KIT_W0QQitemZ330338995597QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Con sumer_Professional_RL?hash=item4ce9bd0d8d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Hi Hamish,
I could stretch to half of this I reckon and putting it together, including the plinth, doesn't frighten me from this distance (might do when I get closer to it but I would be willing to give it a try). :lol: The plinth might be neater (more professional looking) if your 'genius with wood' could be pursuaded to do it :) .
What's your current thinking?
Cheers,

Marco
14-09-2009, 09:00
Hi Varun,


For a starter-just buy the brushes and the liquid- put the record on a mat or a plinth-clean it then rinse it under the running tap and then leave to dry in the kitchen rack.


The problem with that (and it's the same as with any non-suction device) is that all you end up doing is removing a small amount of surface gunk and then spreading and transferring the grime from inside the record grooves somewhere else - this and the water residue 'collects' in the grooves (all invisible to the eye) when the record is drying in the rack, resulting in what superficially looks like a clean record, but that when played often sounds like it's sponsored by Kelloggs 'Snap, Crackle and Pop' because the record hasn't been cleaned properly... Not good!

No, I'm afraid the *only* way to do the job properly is to use a device with a vacuum, so that once the record is cleaned, all the remaining crud is forcefully sucked out of the grooves, leaving a bone dry and pristinely clean record :)

The other bonus too is that the cleaning process on an RCM reduces the amount of static quite considerably, so that the record attracts very little dust afterwards. It's then just a matter of giving it a quick zap with a Zerostat gun, popping it into an nice clean anti-static bag (such as those from Goldring or Nagaoka), and it's job done :cool:

Do bear in mind though that to do the job properly the process can take about 5 mins per record, or more depending on how dirty the record is (in some instances the process may need to be repeated twice), so it is inordinately time-consuming to clean any sort of reasonable quantity of records! Make sure that you use the right type of cleaning fluid, too.

However, as soon as you drop the needle on the record and hear the difference, the big smile it puts on your face will make all the effort worthwhile, particularly when you pull the record out to play time and time again, and you're lucky if there's a bo'hair on it, instead of the usual half-an-Axminster carpet's worth of fluff! So, it's immediately ready to play without having to wipe it first with a brush, thereby charging the record again with static... Win-win, all round!


The strange thing is how much better new records sound after a clean, with all the 'mold release agent' muck removed it's scary how quiet the good old liquorice pizza can be.


Indeed. I was mentioning this very thing earlier to Hamish :smoking:

Quite simply (I can't stress this enough), if you're serious about vinyl, you need a proper RCM!

Marco.

snapper
14-09-2009, 10:00
Not convinced by that.

Maybe this would work well: http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/deepcleaningsystem.php


I use a steamer and a Moth on really grubby vinyl.

Picked it up at the local hardware shop for 9.95.

It's also excellent for cleaning the kitchen tiles,oven etc.

Varun
14-09-2009, 10:05
Thanks Marco,

My experience is the same- the records do come alive. I am about to return to Liverpool having packed my 16.5 but then realizing that I had forgotten to pack the VPI liquid- the brushes and the lot.

I did find that I have some Disc Doctor Miracle cleaner left- so if Hamish will try it- you are most welcome. Brushes are in Liverpool.

Then what about the very difficult to remove concretions. I have a few records which I have not benefited from 16.5 clean and so do they need a steam clean?

This has become a rather involved morning- just as I was about tell Hamish I had found the liquid- I saw Chris's just remarks. I could have responded after reaching Liverpool- but Curse you Marco- your forum is so addictive.

Magna Audio
14-09-2009, 17:28
This may look crude but it is effective.
If you can DIY then give it a go.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=40926&postcount=1

I've done 170 odd discs with. New as old. They all get the treatment.

The Vinyl Adventure
14-09-2009, 18:43
Righty, from what I can gather the best bet is not mess about and get me a proper machine! I didn't count on the level of expense so (dave) it's going to have to wait! I shall have a think on the shared purchase! On paper the idea is sound, in practis the logistics of it might become an issue! I'm not sure that the posting back and forth would be wise??? I'm not ruling it out completely, I just need to think a bit more on the idea
as for getting pete to help with a moth build.. That is a good idea!

The Vinyl Adventure
14-09-2009, 18:45
This may look crude but it is effective.
If you can DIY then give it a go.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=40926&postcount=1

I've done 170 odd discs with. New as old. They all get the treatment.

I read that when you posted it, very clever, to clver fory handy skills I recon!

steveinspain
21-09-2009, 21:01
Cleaning records is boring, noisy, expensive, dull as anything and a waste of time, until you hear the difference.!
I got a VPI second hand on a whim, and used it twice as it was so boring. Then, I played the records I had cleaned. I now have around 2000 lp's, of which half are clean. I need more new sleeves and some spare time, but it is such a good investment purely in terms of how much better badly aged records sound, let alone how much longer expensive cartridges may last etc !
One of the best buys ever, despite the boredom factor when using it !

alfie2902
22-09-2009, 00:54
I was going to go down the sharing an RCM route & was looking for a couple of like minded people that lived within a short drive. Then spotted an Okki Nokki 2nd hand on the Wam. Picked it up for less than 200 & have seen a few on the forums since. So it may be worth hanging on (Take Marco up on his offer of cleaning them for you) & picking up a second hand one only be about 100 each then!!

Probably the best 200 i ever spent on HiFi related products. Its made a few bad buys very playable & even does good things to brand new vinyl. :cool:

REM
22-09-2009, 09:21
Hi Hamish

Have you seen THIS (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Moth-RCM-2-Record-Cleaning-Machine_W0QQitemZ330360840535QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers?hash= item4ceb0a6157&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)?

It's looking a bit pricey but they don't come up that often, maybe time to take the plunge?

Cheers

DaveK
22-09-2009, 09:45
Hi Hamish

Have you seen THIS (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Moth-RCM-2-Record-Cleaning-Machine_W0QQitemZ330360840535QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers?hash= item4ceb0a6157&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)?

It's looking a bit pricey but they don't come up that often, maybe time to take the plunge?

Cheers

Hi Hamish and Ralph,
At the risk of stating the obvious, with over 2 days yet to go the price will rise considerably I guess, probably to near new price, given it's provenance.
Cheers,

The Vinyl Adventure
22-09-2009, 10:44
yeah, and being as my cats being poorly has made my poor, i dont think its a goer :(
little buggers if only we didnt love them so much....

cheers for pointing it out though!

Alex_UK
22-09-2009, 14:02
Psssstttt - whilst everyone's looking at that one... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Record-Cleaning-Machine-MOTH-RCD-MKII-Hardly-Used_W0QQitemZ290351793780QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Au dioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Turntables?hash=ite m439a50c674&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

REM
22-09-2009, 16:01
I dunno, you hang around waitin' fer ages an' then they all come along at once, bleedin' typical innit:lol:

Allan W.
08-10-2009, 03:18
I use a "Perfection Steam Cleaner" with distilled water. It cleans without putting chemical cleaning solutions on my LP's and lowers the surface noise. Worth every bit of $30.00.

Historicus
23-10-2009, 14:38
The best washing machine is the Loricraft but it costs. I own a bigger VPI that is incredibly loud but does his work well.
The used distilled water is very important. I make my first wash with a combination of isopropinic alcol, distilled water and photo emollient. The second wash is made by l'art du son. It kills all the statics loads.
Knosti's greatest lack is that this system doesn't draw all the garbage on the records. In this way Knosti makes a big jam!
Kind regards,