Thorens TD160 Servicing.

[DarrenHW]

Having had a hot rodded Techie and now a couple of Garrard 401's a belt drive reprise has been nagging at me. My first TT's were budget belt drives with probably the best being a Rega RP1 which was (to my ears) easily bettered by the Techie. I don't feel my previous TT's really demonstrated the best belt drives offer, my system has evolved significantly and I'm now (thanks mostly to this forum, it's members and Marco's personal guidance) much more adept at getting the best out of a TT, (although I still have a lot to learn) so feel I can now give a belt drive a fairer hearing and to that end I've just picked up a TD160 MKI.

I bought it from a retired couple who owned it from new, it's in good condition with the exception of some horrible scratches to the dust cover where stuff had been stacked on top of it in the loft.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_5297_zpsbooopwjf.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_5297_zpsbooopwjf.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_5291_zpsd8sek66d.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_5291_zpsd8sek66d.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_5294_zpsezbcb1or.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_5294_zpsezbcb1or.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_5300_zpsdbcfg2ij.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_5300_zpsdbcfg2ij.jpg.html)

It's not been used in years so I'd like to give it a basic service before using it. The TD160 user manual recommends "Caltex Regal Oil B" for the bearing, any recommendations of a suitable oil and where to source? The user manual also states that "no lubrication is necessary under normal operating conditions" for the motor, however this photo from The Analog Dept shows a bearing similar to the Garrard motor:

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/TD160mo_6_zpsyvzfowak.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/TD160mo_6_zpsyvzfowak.jpg.html)

as the TT's not been used in years I feel a strip down, clean and lube would be a prudent. Any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations (including oil type) on this?

The belt whilst amazingly still intact is quite stretched, I've read somewhere on here that the stock belt is a different composite to most after market offerings and that only a Thorens branded belt is a recommended replacement, a quick search in eBay reveals this rather expensive belt (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thorens-Riemen-belt-TD160-TD160ii-TD165-TD166-original-part-CAS-/380399085524?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item58918d67d4), any other recommendations or a UK supplier?

Finally, the TT came with a Shure M75EM Type2 with an after market stylus, is this considered a good match? I also have an AT95 and a Stanton 680MKII would either of these be a better match?

Cheers,

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've got one of these sitting in my works cellar and I was going to do something similar :eek::eek: Be interesting to see what you get upto!

[struth]

the thakker belts are ok too. a good tight belt is an excellent upgrade...you may be surprised. if your not intending replinthing it then a really thick baseboard is a big upgrade too..you can use the old one as a template. some cork sheeting glued to the u!derside of faceplate. redo the earths. replace mains cable. srm tech do a great upgrate for pennies in little dots of sorbothane to fit between inner and outer platter.that should get you cooking with gas

[DarrenHW]

I've seen the Thakker belts but no info on them. Even at this early stage I'm considering a replinth, one of the things that appealed to me about the TD160 was just how many low cost improvements can be made.

I'm thinking of using sewing machine oil for the bearing and motor, any thoughts?

[struth]

yes it will be fine..you dont need much. just enough to float it loaded ...check after initial use for any that comes out top and wipe it off. gun oil is good too

[killie99]

Look on ebay for a kit by 'fredhifi78', he doesn't have anything for sale just now but he's an ex thorens employee. Kit includes cleaner, oil (2 types) and a belt for about £20. Search for 'joel thorens' and you'll find a German seller who is selling teh kit for loads of thorens except for the 160 - probably worth emailing and asking for the 160 kit.

[DarrenHW]

Excellent, thank you Grant :thumbsup:.

[DarrenHW]

Well as far as I can see the threaded inserts need to be drilled out to strip the motor, I wasn't going to do that so I've given it a bit of a clean and a few drops off oil, cleaned and oiled the spindle housing, found a small enough belt, fired it up... and the motor's knocking :(. It seems this is quite common due to wear in the sleeve bearings, I understand this can be reduced or eliminated by fitting a thrust bearing but this TT's quickly loosing it's appeal. I only found this as I'm on the lookout for a TD124 but thought it would be a bit of cheap fun, it's not looking all that cheap any more and I'm not having any fun either.

[struth]

It may just need the azimuth adjusted Darren there is a screw for it that is under the main platter at back. if the belt is not riding true on the sub platter then adjust it. the belt should be quite tight as well. you should find some info online. I have a srm addon bearing for my motor but never got round to fitting it tbh.

oiling points for motor

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww62/1TNTTNT1/MotorSpindle01Guide.jpg

[DarrenHW]

Cheers Grant, not seen that photo but that's where I've oiled it and also the underside where the spindle protrudes, I removed it from the chassis to do this and it runs fine when upside down but not so when the right way up. I tried the adjustment screw but didn't have any success. I've just had a hissy fit and put it in the classifieds, maybe I should give it more time :scratch:?

[struth]

May have done something to the motor when reassembling. you can buy second hand ones but not cheap and getting hard to find. I am surprised no one has started making them again. of cours you can go upmarket and buy an external one, but they are dear. I was considering it for mine but now I have the regenerator I dont really need it. TT's can be a money pit; I know lol. hate to think about how much Ive spent on my thorens. well into 4 figures

[DarrenHW]

When I first fired it up I could hear it knocking but thought on the basis that the bearing was bone dry the motor would be too. I'm not saying there's isn't a chance I did something to it when reassembling I just don't think it's an alignment issue, (I may be wrong) it does run fine when upside down though which ties in with what I've read about warn bearings?

I don't know what I'll do with it at this point, I had hoped it would be a nice little project and a stand in when I'm working on the Garrard but I don't want to put much money or time into it. I've had a free day today and had planned to cut out some perspex for new cross overs for the Celestions, instead I spent the time on the Thorens and now wish I'd stuck with the original plan :doh:. I have so little free time for HiFi DIY and I know it's stupid to take on more projects but that probably won't stop me in the future. I'll see what happens, if anyone's interested in it then I'll sell if not then I'll keep calm (or at least try to) and carry on.

Thanks for your help and sorry if I sound ungrateful, I do appreciate the advice I'm just disappointed how my afternoon's panned out.

[struth]

Yes, take a rest from it and try again when your in the mood Darren..... worth diddling with unless you sell of course. gl

[DarrenHW]

You're right Grant, I just had a tantrum :wah:. It would seem there may be some mileage in opening the motor so that will be my next step, kill or cure I guess.

[struth]

This might solve your problems darren

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stops-Knocking-Thorens-TD-160-165-166-145-125-Motor-Spindle-Support-Kit-/221794123343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a3f5be4f

[DarrenHW]

This might solve your problems darren

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stops-Knocking-Thorens-TD-160-165-166-145-125-Motor-Spindle-Support-Kit-/221794123343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a3f5be4f

Sorry Grant, I meant to reply but forgot all about it. Yes, I hope something like that will be the answer as stripping the MKI motor doesn't seem to be an option. It's shelved for the time being but I'll return to it when work's not so hectic.

[walpurgis]

This might solve your problems darren

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stops-Knocking-Thorens-TD-160-165-166-145-125-Motor-Spindle-Support-Kit-/221794123343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a3f5be4f

All that does is place thrust onto the inside of the upper bearing instead of gravity exerting it on the lower one. A more sensible solution is to shim the shaft. I've never taken a Thorens motor apart (never had to), but it can't be that difficult.

[DarrenHW]

All that does is place thrust onto the inside of the upper bearing instead of gravity exerting it on the lower one. A more sensible solution is to shim the shaft. I've never taken a Thorens motor apart (never had to), but it can't be that difficult.

That's what I was hoping to do but I've reached an impasse, it's packed away at the moment, when I have chance I'll upload some photo's, maybe there's a solution I can't see?