Channel Imbalance..

[Ninanina]

I have noticed over the last few months that my left/right channels are not quite in balance

The left channel seems louder than the right channel, not by much but I do notice it on careful listening

Now do I take my Oto for a complete service by Audio Note, who are not too far from me, or do I change out the valves and hope that fixes it?

I have no idea what the cost is to service my amp but I can't imagine it will be very cheap...knowing Audio Note prices...

[struth]

swapping the valves over from left to right should tell you if the sound follows them or not Bev

[mikmas]

I'm sure you've tried this but first and easiest check is to swap speakers and see if the imbalance follows. If it doesn't then your ears are playing tricks or speaker placement is problematic - both are cheaper to check out than a service :)

If it does follow then looking at your sig it seems all your sources go through the DAC so you could next swap the inputs from left to right on the amp to rule that out.

EDIT ... and Grant has covered the next step ;)

[Ninanina]

swapping the valves over from left to right should tell you if the sound follows them or not Bev

Thanks Grant... do you know I hadn't even thought of that... stupid just stupid.... :doh:

I've never taken the top off the amp so it's about time I did

I will swap the valves round and, like you say, see if the sound follows them... thanks again Grant..;)

[Ninanina]

I'm sure you've tried this but first and easiest check is to swap speakers and see if the imbalance follows. If it doesn't then your ears are playing tricks or speaker placement is problematic - both are cheaper to check out than a service :)

If it does follow then looking at your sig it seems all your sources go through the DAC so you could next swap the inputs from left to right on the amp to rule that out.

EDIT ... and Grant has covered the next step ;)

Thanks Mike for your response... I've noticed the imbalance with both the Tannoy's and the Klipsch so I don't think it's the speakers at fault. I will try the swap on the amp you mention first

[agk]

Do also be sure it isn't a flaw with your ears Bev. I spent months and plenty of money/hassle fannying around changing "faulty" kit before discovering a slight imbalance in my hearing.

[Rothchild]

If it does follow then looking at your sig it seems all your sources go through the DAC so you could next swap the inputs from left to right on the amp to rule that out.


Yeah, this.

Classic trouble shooting, just work your way back towards the source. Swap the speakers first, then swap the outputs from the amp (so L feeds R), then swap the valves, the L/R the thing feeding the amp etc Just be methodical and work in stages, you'll get there in the end.

[awkwardbydesign]

I rebuilt my valve amp twice. And then discovered it was a speaker voice coil rubbing at high volume! So try swapping things around thoroughly before you try anything more drastic.

[awkwardbydesign]

Do also be sure it isn't a flaw with your ears Bev. I spent months and plenty of money/hassle fannying around changing "faulty" kit before discovering a slight imbalance in my hearing.
In all seriousness, try listening with your back to the speakers. And a friend thought he had an imbalance until he realised I had put a cushion on the back of the sofa to the left of his head! Oh, how we laughed. Eventually.

[Ninanina]

Thanks everyone for your kind help..

Well I have simply plugged the left speaker cable into the right output and visa versa and the imbalance now shows the right channel to be louder than the left... so at least I wasn't imagining it ! so I'm certain it isn't my ears.. that's one thing out of the equation ;)

I think the next step will be to put the speaker cables back in their correct outputs and then swap the output valves around to see if the imbalance follows the valves... I just hope I've got an Allen key small enough for the fixings that hold the top of the amp on... I've borrowed loads today from a friend so I hope one of them fits..:)

Thanks again for all the tips, much appreciated..:D

[awkwardbydesign]

This thread has been far too polite. That's what comes of allowing women to have hifi! :steam:

[Ninanina]

This thread has been far too polite. That's what comes of allowing women to have hifi! :steam:

A ??

[Ninanina]

Not sure I understand your post Richard...

[struth]

Nothing wrong with politeness. It's an oft forgotten way of communication;)

[Ninanina]

Nothing wrong with politeness. It's an oft forgotten way of communication;)

Exactly Grant..

Well if Richard has a problem with my post then it's his problem. I could have taken that as quite a nasty post but I will just ignore it... :D

[awkwardbydesign]

Not sure I understand your post Richard...

It was tongue in cheek. Sorry if it was misunderstood; I thought you would have realised from my other posts that I don't really think like that. Otherwise why would I try to be helpful? :doh:

[Ninanina]

It was tongue in cheek. Sorry if it was misunderstood; I thought you would have realised from my other posts that I don't really think like that. Otherwise why would I try to be helpful? :doh:

No problem Richard... it was a bit misunderstood (I think forum posts can be like texting, my texts are often taken completely the wrong way!! ) and I didn't think you thought like that so no apology necessary... :D and yes you have been most helpful, thank you..

I now have to top off and have swapped the output valves round... just letting it warm up a bit before I try it out... fingers crossed this will reveal all ;)

[Ninanina]

Well I think I can rule out the output valves..

I will now swap over the ECC83's and see what happens... I have noticed that the right channel 83 seems to have a little flare-up (goes quite bright before settling) as I switch the amp on so maybe it's that at fault..

[Andrei]

Another diagnostic tool is to use in conjunction with the other tests mentioned: make a mono recording to play back as a Flac or Wav. The idea is to ensure that you are getting the same sound out of each speaker. I free program like Audacity will work, but there must be heaps of mono tracks on the Net. I did this a couple of years ago to compare cables.

[Ninanina]

Well now I have a conundrum..

I've swapped the ECC83's over and now can't make out an imbalance.... :doh:

[Canetoad]

Could have been a dirty pin Bev. :)

[Ninanina]

Could have been a dirty pin Bev. :)

Bernie that's a very good suggestion and one I hadn't thought of. Do you know if switch cleaner can be used safely on the pins/bases ?

Thanks so much.. ;)

However the same ECC83 does have this flare up, which is now in the left channel, so it still might be prudent to replace them both as they are not very expensive..

[Firebottle]

Result Bev :thumbsup:

I would now leave everything as it is, including the valve that has a flare on switch on. I have one that does the same in an OTL amp, has been going for years.

:) Alan

[Ali Tait]

Yes, the flare up is normal Bev, it's just current inrush whilst the filaments warm up.

A good way to clean pins is a saucer of Coca Cola. Stand the valves up on a saucer, fill with Coke until the pins are covered. Leave overnight, then clean them off.

[awkwardbydesign]

My Mullard ECC83s flare, some newer ones don't.

[struth]

you could mayve get a tin of dioxit to clean sockets as well. not cheap but does a good job and will likely last a lifetime.

[PaulStewart]

you could mayve get a tin of dioxit to clean sockets as well. not cheap but does a good job and will likely last a lifetime.

Hi Bev, Grant's Suggestion is best in my opinion. Whenever we service anything, we treat with DeOxit. My own valve gear is treated throughout and all the pro A/V kit we use is as well, worth it's weight in gold.

[Ninanina]

Thanks all for your suggestions

I see that Deoxit do a few cleaners, is this the one to go for...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caig-Deoxit-Contact-Lube-Cleaner-Protector-5-Spray-5OZ-D5S-6-/171782252327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27ff052727

Yes it is expensive but as I've never spent anything on the Oto it may be money well spent.. ;)

[Ninanina]

Just wondered if that DeOxit I mentioned was ok to purchase... sorry to bother peeps again.. it's just i'm keen to order it and spruce up the Oto..thanks.. ;)

[struth]

Should be fine Bev. Good stuff as it is totally non conductive; contains no alcohol or silicon as far as I know.

[Ninanina]

Should be fine Bev. Good stuff as it is totally non conductive; contains no alcohol or silicon as far as I know.

Thanks Grant I will order some... ;)

[Andrei]

Thanks all for your suggestions

I see that Deoxit do a few cleaners, is this the one to go for...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caig-Deoxit-Contact-Lube-Cleaner-Protector-5-Spray-5OZ-D5S-6-/171782252327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27ff052727

Yes it is expensive but as I've never spent anything on the Oto it may be money well spent.. ;)

As a product that will do, but it looks like 20 years supply. I buy the little aerosol containers that are about the size of a lipsitick. You only need it for the occasional troubleshooting as at present or cleaning your RCA contacts every two or three years.

[Ninanina]

As a product that will do, but it looks like 20 years supply. I buy the little aerosol containers that are about the size of a lipsitick. You only need it for the occasional troubleshooting as at present or cleaning your RCA contacts every two or three years.

Yes I know it might be over the top quantity wise but I can already think of a few more uses for it so it won't go to waste ;)

[struth]

Good for your mains plug pins and fuses too along with some brasso or the like

[Ninanina]

Good for your mains plug pins and fuses too along with some brasso or the like

I think I will give the whole system a bit of a spruce up and Colin can treat his as well.. :)

[struth]

Wadding type is best(brasso) I find, but wear gloves of some kind as it can be a bugger to get off the fingers :D

[awkwardbydesign]

Is Brasso suitable? It leaves a residue than has to be removed before painting, so I would imagine it might not be ideal for plugs and sockets.

[struth]

yep clean with brass ckeaner then clean with deoxit and polish up. should come up great...cheap way to improve things

[Ninanina]

I have some wadding type cleaning stuff which I could use first on things like plugs etc and then wipe off and treat with the DeOxit so they will be super clean ;)

[walpurgis]

I have some wadding type cleaning stuff which I could use first on things like plugs etc and then wipe off and treat with the DeOxit so they will be super clean ;)

Metal cleaning wadding (like Duraglit) uses an abrasive and as the gold plating on plugs tends to be pretty thin, I'd suggest very minimal use or another solution really, otherwise there's a good likelihood of rubbing the plating away.

[struth]

Metal cleaning wadding (like Duraglit) uses an abrasive and as the gold plating on plugs tends to be pretty thin, I'd suggest very minimal use or another solution really, otherwise there's a good likelihood of rubbing the plating away.

My plugs dont have gold plate.....Im a cheapskate :lol:

[Ninanina]

My plugs dont have gold plate.....Im a cheapskate :lol:

No I don't think mine do either...

[awkwardbydesign]

Mine have rhodium. I'm posh.

[Ninanina]

Mine have rhodium. I'm posh.

Ooooo that is very posh.. :D

[awkwardbydesign]

And very, very shiny. Not that I am influenced by such things.
My amp - http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m604/awkwardbydesign/Jungson%20JA88D%2009/20141027_173344_zpsadkwdomo.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/awkwardbydesign/media/Jungson%20JA88D%2009/20141027_173344_zpsadkwdomo.jpg.html)

[Firebottle]

Bling bling......

Good bass note on the right channel by the look of it?

[Ninanina]

I've received my DeOxit today so will be busy this evening giving the Oto a nice clean up

To clean the valve bases I purchased some little interdental brushes like these:
http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a450/ninanina2/4fc23e_6d60f3d33be349f3beea6176afa93192.jpg_srb_p_ 152_129_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srb.jpeg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/ninanina2/media/4fc23e_6d60f3d33be349f3beea6176afa93192.jpg_srb_p_ 152_129_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srb.jpeg.html)

And I will clean the valve pins with some 'Q Tips', then I will clean all the rear sockets, fuse and fuse holder and all my plugs ;)

[struth]

I've received my DeOxit today so will be busy this evening giving the Oto a nice clean up

To clean the valve bases I purchased some little interdental brushes like these:
http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a450/ninanina2/4fc23e_6d60f3d33be349f3beea6176afa93192.jpg_srb_p_ 152_129_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srb.jpeg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/ninanina2/media/4fc23e_6d60f3d33be349f3beea6176afa93192.jpg_srb_p_ 152_129_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srb.jpeg.html)

And I will clean the valve pins with some 'Q Tips', then I will clean all the rear sockets, fuse and fuse holder and all my plugs ;)

like the brushes.....not seen them before.

[walpurgis]

like the brushes.....not seen them before.

Yup. I've got some too. All sorts of fiddly little jobs they can do.

Good for teeth as well. :)

[Ninanina]

Well I've just got to do a few household type things first and then I'll be ready for the cleaning... ;)

[struth]

Yup. I've got some too. All sorts of fiddly little jobs they can do.

Good for teeth as well. :)

A bit smalll for my teeth...I'm not a hamster :eyebrows:

[Ninanina]

Well I've cleaned every pin separately of the 6 valves!, every socket in the valve bases, every phono socket, every phono plug, speaker plugs and sockets, fuse and fuse holder and every mains plug... I feel nice and clean now :D

[struth]

Well I've cleaned every pin separately of the 6 valves!, every socket in the valve bases, every phono socket, every phono plug, speaker plugs and sockets, fuse and fuse holder and every mains plug... I feel nice and clean now :D

Hope you washed your hands :eyebrows: ....and does it sound any different? .... a cleaner sound perhaps :D

[Ninanina]

Hope you washed your hands :eyebrows: ....and does it sound any different? .... a cleaner sound perhaps :D

Yes all washed up.....I can't say it sounds any different, cleaner or otherwise... :)

[struth]

Well you have that warm glow of satisfaction, and thats worth more lass.:cool: Just finished writing me will and a list of stuff; and I am happier for doing it, so its party time......Bourbon and beer :D

[walpurgis]

I'm bequeathing the writing of my (post mortem) will to the person in the family to win a series of coin tosses apart from a term that says anybody challenging that is excluded from inheriting. The order of coin tossing to be decided by a toss of a coin of course.

[struth]

I'm bequeathing the writing of my (post mortem) will to the person in the family to win a series of coin tosses apart from a term that says anybody challenging that is excluded from inheriting. The order of coin tossing to be decided by a toss of a coin of course.

A lot of tossers?:eek:

[Yomanze]

I have noticed over the last few months that my left/right channels are not quite in balance

The left channel seems louder than the right channel, not by much but I do notice it on careful listening

Now do I take my Oto for a complete service by Audio Note, who are not too far from me, or do I change out the valves and hope that fixes it?

I have no idea what the cost is to service my amp but I can't imagine it will be very cheap...knowing Audio Note prices...

Why not e-mail Audio Note as I think this could be an issue with your volume pot, which might need replacing. Can't seem to find a photo of it.

[Ninanina]

Why not e-mail Audio Note as I think this could be an issue with your volume pot, which might need replacing. Can't seem to find a photo of it.
Thanks Neil. You may well be correct about the volume pot but I am not convinced I still have the imbalance. I will be listening to some music in a short while a bit louder than I was able to last night once I'd finished my cleaning

I'll be back... as they say... :)

[Ninanina]

Surely DeOxit cannot improve the sound, can it ?? I am sure I must be imagining it!!... probably a bit of the placebo effect.. :mental:

[walpurgis]

I am sure I must be imagining it!!...

Yes, you're definitely imagining it Bev! :lol:

[Ninanina]

Yes, you're definitely imagining it Bev! :lol:

I thought so :doh:

[awkwardbydesign]

Yes, you're definitely imagining it Bev! :lol:

For heaven's sake don't tease her! She takes things so seriously. :kiss:

[struth]

Surely DeOxit cannot improve the sound, can it ?? I am sure I must be imagining it!!... probably a bit of the placebo effect.. :mental:

of course it can. better connections should mean better sound, no?

[Ninanina]

For heaven's sake don't tease her! She takes things so seriously. :kiss:

Bless... don't worry I don't mind being teased... :D

I really do think the sound is improved by my cleaning but like I say it could be the placebo effect...;)

[awkwardbydesign]

Cleaning SHOULD improve the sound. That's the point of it. Unless you're an obsessive, in which case THAT'S the point of it!

[Ninanina]

I am now convinced that the sound has been improved by my cleaning... however I suspect I do still have a little bit of imbalance...

I am enjoying my toons too much tonight to swap things around but if I get time tomorrow evening I will swap the speaker cables about to see if that makes the difference it did before... and then go from there.. ;)

[walpurgis]

I suspect I do still have a little bit of imbalance...

Down to those little drinkie poos I reckon! :cool: ;)

[Ninanina]

Down to those little drinkie poos I reckon! :cool: ;)

:rfl::rfl:

Actually I am quite sober...:D

[dantheman91]

:rfl::rfl:

Actually I am quite sober...:D


:scratch: :eyebrows: