View Full Version : House: System Build
So just a quick intro, after fannying around for some years I've decided to put together my end of " End of Game " sysetem.
I'm not necessarily planning to spend lots of money, just suitable components that make a sound I love and let me enjoy my music.
My first purchase as you can see from my sig are The Beasts! The mighty Celef Domestic Monitor Prototype. I believe mine are the only pair, please correct me if you own a pair though.First thing you need to know about theses baby's is their weight. They are redicuously heavy, I don't know how much they weigh, but it's loads. Utterly Gerogous to my eyes, in Walnut. They are currently hooked up to a bog standard receiever and they sound nothing short of spectacular. Capable of huge dynamic shifts and they are also incredibly subtle. Did I mention they have the most monumental bass responce. Spell binding .I have them set up in a really good triangle listening position. Even at low volume they manage to make notes appear from all over the room, quite mental actually.
So, first would love some input into amplification. I can't wait to hear them with some quality amplification.
Must have a remote control, that works.
Needs to be powerful.
A turntable input.
Currently considering the Roksan Kandy K2 .
whats the efficiency of the celefs.
if its good then a superb set of speakers will sound great with pretty much any decent amp. Gazjam is getting incredible sound from an amptastic because he has such great speakers(eglingdales)
if they are pretty efficient then even a low powered valve amp will go loud and sound terrific
whats the efficiency of the celefs.
if its good then a superb set of speakers will sound great with pretty much any decent amp. Gazjam is getting incredible sound from an amptastic because he has such great speakers(eglingdales)
if they are pretty efficient then even a low powered valve amp will go loud and sound terrific
I'm afraid I don't know their efficiency. There is no info other than the label on the back. I'm not against, valves at all. I think guitars in particular sound lush using valves amps.
I guess I could trial a valve amp and see how things lie.🔥
my kefs are 90/91and work superbly with a 16 watt power amp and sound valvy sweet too.
my kefs are 90/91and work superbly with a 16 watt power amp and sound valvy sweet too.
Where can I see your pictures Grant? Just listening to Friday afternoon Creedence BTW.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?28714-I-think-I-am-(not)-finished best starting at the end lol
Gordon Steadman
22-05-2015, 15:52
I have been very impressed with the Sony ES gear I've heard lately. My ES speakers are really good and the amp I heard at the place I collected them was exceptionally good with a very tuneful and controlled bass and none of the tizz that I associate with Japanese gear in general, just very clean.
They tend to get a premium price but are well worth it if you can find one. I run a Leak Stereo 20 which seems to be able to drive anything but its a perfect match for the Quads. Maybe not for head bangers but more than adequately loud for me and I am going deaf.:(
Two possibilities but it depends on the budget of course.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-TA-F570ES-High-End-Verstarker-der-ESPRIT-Serie-/121647543582?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item1c52c2351e
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-TA-F550ES-Voll-Verstarker-in-Farbe-Titan-minimale-Gebrauchsspuren-/221778250953?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item33a3038cc9
hifi_dave
22-05-2015, 16:44
You wouldn't give house room to the 'prototype' version of those. As I recall, they were reject Walnut cabinets, heavily gouged with no corners..:eek:
I have tried to do a bit of research on the Celef speakers you have. The name "Celef" comes from the fact they originally used a Celestion tweeter with a KEF B200 low frequency unit.
Celef made several models; all of which received good reviews and were very popular in the '70s. I cannot find the sensitivity of your Celef ‘Domestic Monitor Prototype’ speakers, but the following Celef designs have a sensitivity of 82dB/W or greater:
Celef - ‘Monitor Improved’
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/zippy670/celef.jpg
Two-way design using a KEF B200 bass unit with a 25mm Audax tweeter
88dB/W
Celef - ‘Mini Professional’
Two-way design, using a KEF B200 bass unit with a 20mm Audax tweeter
82dBA/W
Celef – ‘Studio Professional’
Three-way design, using a KEF B139 bass unit, an Audax 203mm unit for the upper-bass/mid frequencies and a 25mm Audax tweeter
82.5dBA/W
Assuming your speakers have a sensitivity of no less than 82dBA/W, then a 50W/channel amplifier will quite sufficient.
(My speakers have a sensitivity of 82dBA/W and a 50W/channel is more than adequate. I have obtained satisfactory results using a 15W/channel valve amplifier as well as a 25W/channel solid-state Class A amplifier.)
Hope this is of some help.
Rothchild
22-05-2015, 19:05
I got one of these
http://www.hifi-pictures.net/amplifiers-home/Technics%20SU-V6/Technics%20SU-V6.jpg
to go with my Armstrongs
http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/600/602.jpeg
which aren't all that dissimilar to your (rather tasty looking) Celefs.
Aesthetically it's bob on for me and sonically even the lowly v6 model has plenty of grunt and refinement (+ it has MM and MC stages)
For some reason, I can't read the last post. (?)
I have had to edit the title by removing the two 'squares'. It was these that prevented me looking at successive posts on page 2.
Thanks so much for the replies.
Very detailed research Barry thanks . I think an ' assumption ' of 82 approx might be close .
Will have a look at the Sony gear Gordon
I like the Technics New Class A amps. Built like tanks they were. Defo worth a try.
I don't wont to do chopping and changing so going to takes my time.
Does any one have any knowledge of the Pure Valve integrated amps? Maybe worth saving for and I guess I would get a home demo.
For some reason, I can't read the last post. (?)
I have had to edit the title by removing the two 'squares'. It was these that prevented me looking at successive posts on page 2.
Barry my bass drivers in the Celelfs are Volt 10"
Gordon Steadman
23-05-2015, 07:24
I don't wont to do chopping and changing so going to takes my time.
The core of my system has remained unchanged for 25 years - Leak ST20/Quad 57 - but its still fun to play around the edges. I need a dedicated store room to house those playings now:lol:
Audio Advent
23-05-2015, 13:07
Barry my bass drivers in the Celelfs are Volt 10"
Because these are prototypes, I think the Domestic Monitor name is a complete red herring! Who described them as this? The cabinets are of a later era, like the PE1 or later Professional range.
The Volt driver itself is about 91db efficient - same one as used in the old Decca Volt design by the looks of it. The mid/bass driver above it looks like one Celef used in some of their later designs before turning into ProAc - google image search gives Celef CF2 like this:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll274/thanhtung13188/vnav%203/vnav%204/CelefCF2Nimbusbookshelf-13.jpg
(google search shows only two pairs, the first for which there are more photos look like they have replacement drivers due to the marks around them on the black ash vinyl wrap)
Quality cabinets so have their own weight but will be close to being doubled by the mass of that Volt driver. Anything with Volt 10" drivers seems to have fantastic bass.
hifi_dave
23-05-2015, 15:27
As I said in post no.9, the prototypes of any Celef and ProAc speakers were quite mangled, didn't match and often with crudely routed front panels to accept various drivers. Around that time, Celef/ProAc produced several speakers which never really went into production, with just a couple of pairs produced.
The speakers above are from a much later and cheap range which were mainly for export.
Because these are prototypes, I think the Domestic Monitor name is a complete red herring! Who described them as this? The cabinets are of a later era, like the PE1 or later Professional range.
The Volt driver itself is about 91db efficient - same one as used in the old Decca Volt design by the looks of it. The mid/bass driver above it looks like one Celef used in some of their later designs before turning into ProAc - google image search gives Celef CF2 like this:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll274/thanhtung13188/vnav%203/vnav%204/CelefCF2Nimbusbookshelf-13.jpg
(google search shows only two pairs, the first for which there are more photos look like they have replacement drivers due to the marks around them on the black ash vinyl wrap)
Quality cabinets so have their own weight but will be close to being doubled by the mass of that Volt driver. Anything with Volt 10" drivers seems to have fantastic bass.
Thanks for further info. So if the efficiency of the Volt driver is 91 . It would seem that my Celef's are reasonably efficient?...... And awesome.
Also Domestic Monitor is printed on the back .
Please see pic
Audio Advent
24-05-2015, 19:35
As I said in post no.9, the prototypes of any Celef and ProAc speakers were quite mangled, didn't match and often with crudely routed front panels to accept various drivers. Around that time, Celef/ProAc produced several speakers which never really went into production, with just a couple of pairs produced.
The speakers above are from a much later and cheap range which were mainly for export.
Ah, I didn't understand your post 9 - thought you meant you'd seen the original advert or ebay listing for this particular pair and knew them to be a bit beaten up.
Yes, those black CF2s are cheap ones (even vinyl wrap used on them I think). But looks like the same mid driver is used in House's pair.
Audio Advent
24-05-2015, 19:36
Also Domestic Monitor is printed on the back .
Please see pic
Ah, well there you go! From my experience the Domestic range were quite different and earlier, like my father's Domestic II Supers (which I think he still has somewhere).
Perhaps they re-visited the name later.
Audio Advent
24-05-2015, 19:41
Thanks for further info. So if the efficiency of the Volt driver is 91 . It would seem that my Celef's are reasonably efficient?...... And awesome.
Actually if it's a Volt BM2500.1, it's 93dB effiecient ( have genuine datasheets here from someone's 1980s Volt Decca speakers that came with some hifi once, sadly not the speakers themselves). I've no idea how that then translates to the whole speaker with crossover though. And bass should be pretty good yes!
Actually if it's a Volt BM2500.1, it's 93dB effiecient ( have genuine datasheets here from someone's 1980s Volt Decca speakers that came with some hifi once, sadly not the speakers themselves). I've no idea how that then translates to the whole speaker with crossover though. And bass should be pretty good yes!
Ahh the Bass, it's sumptious. Just so effortless and so deep. Well you've been very helpful thanks,
You may have guessed I'm pleased with my purchase.��
Ninanina
24-05-2015, 22:54
So, first would love some input into amplification. I can't wait to hear them with some quality amplification....
Currently considering the Roksan Kandy K2
Matt if you are considering the Kandy K2 amp, and your speakers are indeed pretty efficient, for the same sort of money on the secondhand market I would definitley try to listen to some valve amps before deciding... I used SS amps for years but once I changed to valves I've not looked back...
I hope that helps you... ;)
hifi_dave
25-05-2015, 09:06
Ah, I didn't understand your post 9 - thought you meant you'd seen the original advert or ebay listing for this particular pair and knew them to be a bit beaten up.
Yes, those black CF2s are cheap ones (even vinyl wrap used on them I think). But looks like the same mid driver is used in House's pair.
I sat in on numerous Celef and ProAc speaker developments. ProAc was a couple of miles up the road to me when I was in Radlett and Tyler would pop in at least once a day to use my facilities and ears. Prototypes were, usually, reject cabinets, very roughly routed to accept the various drivers, bashed on all corners and no grilles. The ones pictured in the OP are production versions.
I sat in on numerous Celef and ProAc speaker developments. ProAc was a couple of miles up the road to me when I was in Radlett and Tyler would pop in at least once a day to use my facilities and ears. Prototypes were, usually, reject cabinets, very roughly routed to accept the various drivers, bashed on all corners and no grilles. The ones pictured in the OP are production versions.
Well these are indeed beautifully finished, to my eyes anyway. They are also solid, you could probably own a Great Dane and not worry too much.
However, concerning the Protoype thingy. There isn't any info or pics other than mine that I can find. If they were a production model surely there would be some info on them somewhere?
M
hifi_dave
30-05-2015, 07:57
Not necessarily as some models were only produced in 5s or 10s, so there are very few out there, if at all.
I have found some Ampification for the Celef's and I hope they appreciate it.
I've waived one of my requirements, a remote control and decided to power them with the,
Pioneer SA 8500 MKII Dual Mono.
I won't be able to hook it up for a while because of work commitments which is a shame but can't wait to match them up.
THIS IS FUN........
This is what she looks like.
Bonny amp Matt.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14865&d=1433015810
Thanks Grant.
hope you are having a top weekend!
What year is that from. Is it early Seventies? It looks fantastic in any case.
Hey Macca,
It was built a year after my birth in 1976, I think . I can't wait for it to begin work, and work it will have to.
Just source after that maybe :💿📼📱 And TT
Quick update: I have decided against the Pioneer. A lovely beast indeed, but on consideration I wanted something a bit more suiting of the Celef's.
So in comes the Turner Stereo Power Amplifier, a very heavy duty and well built bit of kit. Ok maybe not quite the looks of the Pioneer, but it's going to deliver on performance though..... 😄
For a pre amp I'm going to use the Rotel RC-03 which has a built in phono amp. I have tested it with my Sure headphones and it sounds...... Spanking.
For CDs at the moment, a very solidly built Marantz CD-63SE.
Turntable to be decided.
Please see pics below, any comments welcome.
Looking good Matt!
(Actually I prefer the industrial/professional look of the Turner amplifier over the very '70s Japanese styling of the Pioneer amplifier. :))
Plugging in starts tomorrow........... Which is nice!
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