Spendor BC1 - Thoughts and impressions wanted

[Wakefield Turntables]

Anyone tried them, are they any good, just fancied a change and thought these looked good.

[spendorman]

Quite nice, bass can be a bit out of control, watch out for early models with the shrinking white bass unit surrounds.

I suspect the best ones to go for are ones with Alnico magnet bass units with the black surrounds that don't shrink very much.

I have BC1's and Rogers LS3/6 which have had replacement Dalesford Bass units, this makes them pretty well identical to early Rogers Export Monitors.

I prefer the modded LS3/6 to the BC1, just a little. Bass is tighter, and with the Export Monitor bass units, power handling is better.

[Martyn Miles]

Anyone tried them, are they any good, just fancied a change and thought these looked good.
BC1s are the best speakers I've owned.
Stupidly sold a pair I'd owned for 32 years and tried various LS3/5as and little Harbeths.
Then I bought another pair of Spendor BC1s.
Happiness again...

[Jimbo]

Apart from slightly woolly bass BC1 very nice indeed with natural acoustic presentation. Might also suggest SP1 or dare I say SP2

nice pair of active SP1's here http://www.audioflair.co.uk/products-page-2/just-arrived/spendor-sp1a-active-monitors/

[spendorman]

Apart from slightly woolly bass BC1 very nice indeed with natural acoustic presentation. Might also suggest SP1 or dare I say SP2

nice pair of active SP1's here http://www.audioflair.co.uk/products-page-2/just-arrived/spendor-sp1a-active-monitors/

They look in nice condition, some say the the mid is not a magical as the BC1's, I don't know, never heard them.

[Jimbo]

They look in nice condition, some say the the mid is not a magical as the BC1's, I don't know, never heard them.

SP1's bit leaner and still have mid range magic as do the SP2's. The SP1 has super tweeter that just gives top end air. I may well buy these myself if I move to a bigger room.:)

[spendorman]

SP1's bit leaner and still have mid range magic as do the SP2's. The SP1 has super tweeter that just gives top end air. I may well buy these myself if I move to a bigger room.:)

Powered too, I need one more of those M50 built in power amps for my BC1A!

[Audio Advent]

My experience is that they sound nice. Natural and nice and very musical - so good if really you listen to the musicians playing and hum along to tunes etc.

For me though they don't do the "recreation of a sound event" thing so well as other speakers which is about soundstage and speed of response to get sharp transients like you hear in real life, an aspect that I think results in "tactile sounds" and tweeks your natural reactions to real sounds e.g specific visualisations of what you're hearing.

Some people though aren't into that and might call it "hifi" and instead prefer the musical side of things..

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thanks so far, so do I plump for passive or active?

[spendorman]

Thanks so far, so do I plump for passive or active?

They are a powered speaker, still the same crossover in there as the standard model, so its easy to use mod them to use on a separate amp.

Your decision, the M50 power amp is quite good, I believe that is what is in there.

[wee tee cee]

I have SP1s OR should I say my son now has. Lovely speaker on original castor stands. Would happily recommend them-they are keepers.

[DSJR]

Bottom line is this, and I think Martyn Miles would possibly agree - well sort of...

The following is from a realist BC2 owner (BC2's with replacement later (better) SA2 drivers from Terry Miles, Spendor's current designer I believe.


BC1's are ancient, with VERY talkative boxes which resonate badly on anything over a lowish volume. Power handling is pretty pathetic and these boxes sound as if they're going to shake to bits with modern wideband music played at anything over modest levels - bass is pretty awful in any BC1 form unless the boxes are several feet off the ground as the BBC often used them. The BC2 has a far better bass at the expense of a good, but less than perfect integration at the crossover due to the larger voice coil diameter, although I understand that removing the dust cap and fitting a 'phase plug' a la current Spendors helps here with this driver.

The other thing is that BC1's, especially knackered old white-surround and out of spec alnico drivers samples, are the domain of collectors and fetch prices now which are way outside of their actual full frequency range ability these days..

Ah now, abilities... When designed and bought by the Beeb in huge numbers (the LS3/6 never sold in any real quantities according to a letter from Spen Hughes published on the Yahoo Spendor Group and the mid bass was boxy and tuneless with a fragile wobbly cone setup I remember), the BC1 was regarded as an adequate quality general 'box' but nowhere near the proper monitors they used (largest being the LS5/5 I think). In our large dem room, BC1's always sounded small and box-bound in comparison with bigger speakers like the BC3 and IMF's we used to sell, which sounded so much 'free-er' and out of the box... The BC1's nador was in 76 or so, where the suspension was incorrectly supplied to Spendor and sonics suffered. A totally new driver followed (longer lived spec-wise ceramic magnet) and power handling increased to then acceptable levels.

Towards the early 80's, the Rogers Studio 1 was thought to out-perform the BC1 and became very popular and it wasn't until 1983 or so when the SP1 came along. It's my personal view that the SP1 is as good as a *typical* BC1 where the latter excels in a narrow part of the midrange, but trounces it everywhere else in terms of sweet treble consistency and bass quality. I think the SP1 looks far better too.

At the end of the day, it depends on the music you play. If it's 'rock' in any shape or form, I respectfully say you'd be better off looking elsewhere (Rogers LS7's or Studio 1a's/SP1's or summat). Alex_UK here has a great pair of SP1's which are fine for his room and listening levels. I dare say a modern pair of larger KEF Q series' speakers would comfortably out-perform them, although I haven't done this comparison. The odd great pair of BC1's do exist (Martyn's current pair are, I think he told me, better than his previous long-term ones), but I honestly believe rose-tinted specs are being used all over here, but me as well..

Sorry Chaps, I can't rave over BC1's, despite looking back very fondly on my times with them. They're just too flawed on wide-band digitally sourced material and don't go loud enough for many younger listeners.. I'm terrified of blowing my BC2's, so they're never let loose and they're used with an amp that self protects all its gain stages internally...

[Audio Advent]

Thanks so far, so do I plump for passive or active?

In my experience, the amplified ones (they are not active) go for less. That's because you have to modify them to use them as normal passive speakers (drill holes to put binding posts on and disconnect the amp or add a switch). Amps are nothing special though even if they sound ok - just a small amp board with a single transistor but via a balanced to single ended transformer and a cheap variable resistor.

http://www.wittnet.de/media/Hi-Fi/Spendor/M50/m50_1_-_2.jpg

[spendorman]

In my experience, the amplified ones (they are not active) go for less. That's because you have to modify them to use them as normal passive speakers (drill holes to put binding posts on and disconnect the amp or add a switch). Amps are nothing special though even if they sound ok - just a small amp board with a single transistor but via a balanced to single ended transformer and a cheap variable resistor.

http://www.wittnet.de/media/Hi-Fi/Spendor/M50/m50_1_-_2.jpg

The large single power transistor is just for the power supply regulator, there are complementary transistors MJE 3055 and MJE 2955 used as output transistors.

[DSJR]

Replacing the amp caps with good modern equivalent helps a lot I understand - Panasonic were recommended by Derek Hughes, designer of the SP1/2 and current LS3/6.

[spendorman]

My early BC1a a has the less powerful M25 amp, still sounds pretty good to me.

[Audio Advent]

The large single power transistor is just for the power supply regulator, there are complementary transistors MJE 3055 and MJE 2955 used as output transistors.

Duh.. that would make a lot more sense! I did google the 2955 and saw it is part of a complementary pair but didn't edit the post.

I wouldn't deny that they sound good... but I'm not sure that the amp does anything more than say a good, cheap and forgotten 90s integrated amp would do.

Most people will end up using a single ended rca phono to balanced XLR convertor cable only for it to be converted back to single ended by the transformer. Plus most will be driving it from a preamp with a volume control. IMO, both the pot and the transformer could be bypassed (although don't know what impedence the amp needs to see, which would be matched by the transformer I suppose and it is a quality Sowter one).

Personally, I'd take advantage of the usually lower price and remove the amp and replace it with a plate with normal binding posts. Can be converted back with no damage if need be. Afterall, most people on these forums prefer to discover good synergy between different amps and speakers as part of the fun of hifi..

[DSJR]

Those two old output transistors can make VERY sweet toned amps - the original NAD 3020 series and A&R A60 used them to very good effect.

Seriously chaps, the BC1's are now beyond audiophool messing around with different suspect amps. Their power handling is too low, they can't be repaired if they're blown up 'cos Spendor chucked away all the tooling around when the buyout happened I believe (and won't invest in making new) and they need 18" stands at least for typical UK rooms.

[RobsterD]

Lucky me just been given a pair - think they're quite good well enough for me to build some stands to evaluate and make better, will prob give the cabs a refurb and rewire with some Hitachi 102 LC-OFC but keeping the binding posts,like to keep 'em as original as possible but updateing them sympathetically
Creek 4040 powering them

http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac68/RobsterD/IMG_05532_zpsszqmiyfv.jpg (http://s886.photobucket.com/user/RobsterD/media/IMG_05532_zpsszqmiyfv.jpg.html)

[walpurgis]

Very nice. They look like a later pair. I reckon the Creek is likely to match them rather well.

[sq225917]

Andy they are OK for quiet listening, quite fun in the mids nut they aren't hifi. Joe round the corner from me owns many bc1 and early sp1, neither of them are a patch on modern.

Try the larger Harbeth or Rogers monitors if you want a decent old school big speaker.

[Gordon Steadman]

Andy they are OK for quiet listening, quite fun in the mids nut they aren't hifi. Joe round the corner from me owns many bc1 and early sp1, neither of them are a patch on modern.

Try the larger Harbeth or Rogers monitors if you want a decent old school big speaker.

Couldn't disagree more. Like many other speakers, they have their strengths and weaknesses. I have heard very few modern speakers that I prefer, most are all boom and tizz and maybe that is what you mean by 'hi-fi':). I prefer mine to make music make sense. Perhaps they are not hi-fi in the same way that my Quad ESLs are not hi-fi.

[Barry]

Couldn't disagree more. Like many other speakers, they have their strengths and weaknesses. I have heard very few modern speakers that I prefer, most are all boom and tizz and maybe that is what you mean by 'hi-fi':). I prefer mine to make music make sense. Perhaps they are not hi-fi in the same way that my Quad ESLs are not hi-fi.

Good post Gordon!

[Martyn Miles]

Bottom line is this, and I think Martyn Miles would possibly agree - well sort of...

The following is from a realist BC2 owner (BC2's with replacement later (better) SA2 drivers from Terry Miles, Spendor's current designer I believe.


BC1's are ancient, with VERY talkative boxes which resonate badly on anything over a lowish volume. Power handling is pretty pathetic and these boxes sound as if they're going to shake to bits with modern wideband music played at anything over modest levels - bass is pretty awful in any BC1 form unless the boxes are several feet off the ground as the BBC often used them. The BC2 has a far better bass at the expense of a good, but less than perfect integration at the crossover due to the larger voice coil diameter, although I understand that removing the dust cap and fitting a 'phase plug' a la current Spendors helps here with this driver.

The other thing is that BC1's, especially knackered old white-surround and out of spec alnico drivers samples, are the domain of collectors and fetch prices now which are way outside of their actual full frequency range ability these days..

Ah now, abilities... When designed and bought by the Beeb in huge numbers (the LS3/6 never sold in any real quantities according to a letter from Spen Hughes published on the Yahoo Spendor Group and the mid bass was boxy and tuneless with a fragile wobbly cone setup I remember), the BC1 was regarded as an adequate quality general 'box' but nowhere near the proper monitors they used (largest being the LS5/5 I think). In our large dem room, BC1's always sounded small and box-bound in comparison with bigger speakers like the BC3 and IMF's we used to sell, which sounded so much 'free-er' and out of the box... The BC1's nador was in 76 or so, where the suspension was incorrectly supplied to Spendor and sonics suffered. A totally new driver followed (longer lived spec-wise ceramic magnet) and power handling increased to then acceptable levels.

Towards the early 80's, the Rogers Studio 1 was thought to out-perform the BC1 and became very popular and it wasn't until 1983 or so when the SP1 came along. It's my personal view that the SP1 is as good as a *typical* BC1 where the latter excels in a narrow part of the midrange, but trounces it everywhere else in terms of sweet treble consistency and bass quality. I think the SP1 looks far better too.

At the end of the day, it depends on the music you play. If it's 'rock' in any shape or form, I respectfully say you'd be better off looking elsewhere (Rogers LS7's or Studio 1a's/SP1's or summat). Alex_UK here has a great pair of SP1's which are fine for his room and listening levels. I dare say a modern pair of larger KEF Q series' speakers would comfortably out-perform them, although I haven't done this comparison. The odd great pair of BC1's do exist (Martyn's current pair are, I think he told me, better than his previous long-term ones), but I honestly believe rose-tinted specs are being used all over here, but me as well..

Sorry Chaps, I can't rave over BC1's, despite looking back very fondly on my times with them. They're just too flawed on wide-band digitally sourced material and don't go loud enough for many younger listeners.. I'm terrified of blowing my BC2's, so they're never let loose and they're used with an amp that self protects all its gain stages internally...

Hello Dave,
Hello Martyn Miles does agree, sort of...

I read this comprehensive post again and I'll put up my two pennyworth.

My BC1s are later models ( Serial Numbers 10203/4 ) and are a definite improvement on my early ones.
( Serial numbers 6704/4 )

A lot of what DJSR writes is spot on, but I felt a personal experience might put a different perspective
on the Spendors.
I don't do 'rock' music, only Folk, Female Singers and some light 'pop' ( Beatles. etc. ) music, plus classical music.

Dave mentions Digital recoding.
I record with high quality mics, and a prof. Tascam Minidisc player/recorder. and use the BC1 for playback.
( My recording monitor speakers are modified B & W D5s )
The BC1s do the job beautifully.

As an aside, my brother belonged to a Folk Group in the '70s.
They recorded an album at Stonesfield Studio in Oxfordshire.

I listened in the Control Room and they were using Spendor BC3s as Studio playback monitors.
Hearing them in 1974 set me on the road to buying my first pair of BC1s in 1976,

Martyn.

At this moment I am listening to Vaughan Williams' Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis.'
It sounds superb through the BC1s

[wee tee cee]

I have SP1s and love them to bits. They make music,non fatiguing and utterly enjoyable. Very similar to 57s and 63s in presentation-natural!!!

I listen to cans a lot-if you want your music to sound beautiful and engrossing they are spot on.....if you want your trousers flapped and to attract bats then look elsewhere.

I do wonder what over and above what headphones can do people crave sonically....all the aforementioned can do that in your front room-wonderful.

Horses for courses methinks...

[DSJR]

I posted the above ages ago to try to put modern rock music peeps buying BC1's at currently outrageous used prices and being severely disappointed. I have ongoing fond memories of the pair I had in the late 70's, fitted with the then latest ceramic magnet drivers which sorted the mid-70's surround issues. In a smaller domestic room and placed well off the floor (I know the trolleys are easy to use, but the HF1300 main tweeters are then firing almost into one's knees or at least one's chest :D ) they're enchanting on simpler music in a way many modern bling-boxes aren't!

At the time, we used to 'demonstrate' BC1's sat on top of big IMF transmission line models and sometimes upside down as well, to get the main driver as clear from walls and floors as possible. The BBC bought hundreds of BC1's as general boxes and I believe most were hanging from the ceiling angled downwards to the desk unless I'm very much mistaken. At the time, anything higher than a spirited volume made them sound as if they were falling apart, due to lack of cone excursion and buzzing boxes. My own BC2's are driving me mad when I'm able to let rip for exactly the same reason and that's irrespective of the amp used - and I have a few including a Quad 303, the model used when they were designed.

I have to disagree with SQ's comments about the SP1 though. It may be said to lose a tiny touch of the BC1 midrange magic, but the mk1 SP1 is a significantly more modern design which holds up well today. The SP1/2 suffers driver issues now (hardening surrounds) which can be treated with brake fluid to soften it with variable results, but by this time, the then new SP1/2 stood alone in a range of increasingly 'slushy sounding boxes' as I remember. Modern Spendors have been livened up, but current new-model Harbeths do seem to have the edge in terms of integration, although the tauter tones of recent models NEED loads of power now to make them 'do' dynamics properly - in my opinion anyway. I know I've had loads of fun using the cute and sonically delightful Quad VA1 into SHL5+'s, but I don't think it could be a permanent setup ;)

[Martyn Miles]

I posted the above ages ago to try to put modern rock music peeps buying BC1's at currently outrageous used prices and being severely disappointed. I have ongoing fond memories of the pair I had in the late 70's, fitted with the then latest ceramic magnet drivers which sorted the mid-70'd surround issues. In a smaller domestic room and placed well off the floor (I know the trolleys are easy to use, but the HF1300 main tweeters are then firing almost into one's knees or at least one's chest :D ).


At the time, we used to 'demonstrate' BC1's sat on top of big IMF transmission line models and sometimes upside down as well, to get the main driver as clear from walls and floors as possible. The BBC bought hundreds of BC1's as general boxes and I believe most were hanging from the ceiling angled downwards to the desk unless I'm very much mistaken. At the time, anything higher than a spirited volume made them sound as if they were falling apart, due to lack of cone excursion and buzzing boxes. My own BC2's are driving me mad when I'm able to let rip for exactly the same reason and that's irrespective of the amp used - and I have a few including a Quad 303, the model used when they were designed.

I have to disagree with SQ's comments about the SP1 though. It may be said to lose a tiny touch of the BC1 midrange magic, but the mk1 SP1 is a significantly more modern design which holds up well today. The SP1/2 suffers driver issues now (hardening surrounds) which can be treated with brake fluid to soften it with variable results, but by this time, the then new SP1/2 stood alone in a range of increasingly 'slushy sounding boxes' as I remember. Modern Spendors have been livened up, but current new-model Harbeths do seem to have the edge in terms of integration, although the tauter tones of recent models NEED loads of power now to make them 'do' dynamics properly - in my opinion anyway. I know I've had loads of fun using the cute and sonically delightful Quad VA1 into SHL5+'s, but I don't think it could be a permanent setup ;)

Dave.
Point taken, but for us who are using our BC1s for Classical Music, Folk and 'The Like' the BC1s are perfect.
Radio is BIG in my house.
I'm currently listening to Any Questions on Radio 4 are they are PERFECT for that.

If I wanted to play 'Rock Type' music I would have something like ATC speakers in my front room

Dave. Your great guy and much of what you say about the BC1 is correct.

All the best.
Martyn.

[Arkless Electronics]

Dave.
Point taken, but for us who are using our BC1s for Classical Music, Folk and 'The Like' the BC1s are perfect.
Radio is BIG in my house.
I'm currently listening to Any Questions on Radio 4 are they are PERFECT for that.

If I wanted to play 'Rock Type' music I would have something like ATC speakers in my front room

Dave. Your great guy and much of what you say about the BC1 is correct.

All the best.
Martyn.

I'm a big fan of Spendor speakers and especially this series. SP1 is amongst my favourite ever speakers. Currently using BCII's here whilst my beloved KEF R105/3's are (temporarily I hope!) out of action.

P.s. I take it you found the "Pre Out" sockets OK?

[DSJR]

I miss the ATC 100A's I once had more and more each passing year (and shed real tears when they went as I was moving in with my then fiancé and there was absolutely no room for them), but they were very heavy and not easy to move, despite the awesome sonics if they were stretched a bit - no good in pre 'SL' trim for low level night-time listening. The BC2's don't integrate quite as well as BC1's do and as you (all?) know, mine have replacement later SA2 drivers in, which were similar but updated I gather. This room I have here is crap I now realise, my better half won't have smaller 'Boxes On Stalks' in this room and for speakers of this size to begin to work, they've got to be 18" off the floor and nigh on a metre out from the back wall in a near-field perspective, which I can't maintain in day-to-day life.

Hey Ho...

[andyrlb]

I couldn't move them on quick enough


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Martyn Miles]

To move on. I have bought two Spendor M50 amplifiers, along with a
two Spendor cabinet back panels.

[Martyn Miles]

To move on. I have bought two Spendor M50 amplifiers, along with a
two Spendor cabinet back panels.

In the end the above was a ‘sideways’ move rather than an improvement.
I sold the amps. on and the cabinet backs went, along with some Spendor cabinets I had, to someone who used
to work at Spendor.

[spendorman]

I have an M50 and an older M25 amp.