WTD Celestion hf 2000 tweeter [Archive]

spendorman

12-05-2015, 21:26

09mike69

12-05-2015, 21:41

Ah, not just used as a supertweeter then like in my LS3'6s.

Trouble is finding a good one, I reckon that quite a lot that appear second hand are not fully functional, they can go low output.

Perhaps consider the modern alternatives, there is plenty information around on this replacement, also for the Ditton 66.

One link just noticed:

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55474

thanks for the link, i thought about the seas but its more than i want to pay for a replacement id rather wait for a hf 2000, also one of the kind gents over on the wam has donated a hf 1000 for the price of post, ill use that til i can source an original. so what would you say would be a good/reasonable measurement on a used hf2000?.
cheers, mike

walpurgis

12-05-2015, 21:44

If you've blown an HF2000, there are alternative tweeters and 'drop in' diaphragms on eBay.

spendorman

12-05-2015, 21:50

If you've blown an HF2000, there are alternative tweeters and 'drop in' diaphragms on eBay.

I saw those a while back, also noticed something technically wrong on his listing, mentioned it, he said that I was right, trouble is I can't remember what it was!

I'm not sure that a HF2000 fitted with the replacement diaphragms would really perform correctly. Also, only one impedance of replacement. I think there are at least two different impedance versions of the HF2000.

I have a duff HF200 that I was thinking of trying this replacement in, but didn't.

09mike69

12-05-2015, 21:52

If you've blown an HF2000, there are alternative tweeters and 'drop in' diaphragms on eBay.

yes i saw the diaphragms but i think it might be a bit tricky to fit one, well for me at least. ive seen a couple of the hf 2000 on there go for between 40 and 60, or i might get lucky and find some cheap b+o's that have them in. cheers, mike.

spendorman

12-05-2015, 21:54

thanks for the link, i thought about the seas but its more than i want to pay for a replacement id rather wait for a hf 2000, also one of the kind gents over on the wam has donated a hf 1000 for the price of post, ill use that til i can source an original. so what would you say would be a good/reasonable measurement on a used hf2000?.
cheers, mike

The HF1000 I believe is quite different, still, it is working tweeter, better than a dead one!

As mentioned, think there are different impedance versions of HF2000. You would have to check, I can't remember!

A good DC resistance does not always imply a good HF2000, have a good read of that vintage radio forum link, some good advice there. Kat's one good HF2000 turned out to be duff as well!

spendorman

12-05-2015, 21:59

yes i saw the diaphragms but i think it might be a bit tricky to fit one, well for me at least. ive seen a couple of the hf 2000 on there go for between 40 and 60, or i might get lucky and find some cheap b+o's that have them in. cheers, mike.

People are getting wise to that, My friend just bought some B&O's with HF2000's. Effectively Ditton 66's with a smaller 10" bass unit.

09mike69

12-05-2015, 22:04

People are getting wise to that, My friend just bought some B&O's with HF2000's. Effectively Ditton 66's with a smaller 10" bass unit.

were they expensive? the b+o's i mean.

spendorman

12-05-2015, 22:07

were they expensive? the b+o's i mean.

I think he paid about £160, you could check the completed listings for that model (forgot the number), on ebay. They had the Celestion dome mids in as well, they are expensive.

walpurgis

12-05-2015, 22:14

The B&O 5700/5702 was a very nice speaker. I've heard them. They were made using drive units supplied by Celestion and are virtually a Ditton 66 with ten inch bass driver and ABR, the driver orientation differs from the vertical line up on the 66. They were actually rather more expensive than the bigger Celestion.

http://i57.tinypic.com/9a1z7o.jpg

09mike69

12-05-2015, 22:20

I think he paid about £160, you could check the completed listings for that model (forgot the number), on ebay. They had the Celestion dome mids in as well, they are expensive.

i guess ill wait for a single hf2000. well, thanks for your input, and if you ever decide to part with one of yours could i get first refusal, cheers, mike

spendorman

12-05-2015, 22:26

09mike69

12-05-2015, 22:31

mad-moon

12-05-2015, 22:56

http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/seas-19tff-1-h0737-08-tweeter-prestige-series.html

mad-moon

12-05-2015, 23:23

Or buy these....http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301615724267?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

tommy6206

13-05-2015, 12:50

they did two versions 4.ohm or 8.ohm you need to measure the good one to find out which one you need..

09mike69

13-05-2015, 20:39

they did two versions 4.ohm or 8.ohm you need to measure the good one to find out which one you need..

i measured the blown tweet and it was about 1ohm but it isnt putting out any sound so im assuming its a 8ohm, i dont really want to de-solder the good one to measure it, do you have one for sale?. cheers, mike.

spendorman

13-05-2015, 20:58

i measured the blown tweet and it was about 1ohm but it isnt putting out any sound so im assuming its a 8ohm, i dont really want to de-solder the good one to measure it, do you have one for sale?. cheers, mike.

You need to check, but I my vague memory is telling me that it might be a 4 Ohm tweeter in the Ditton 44.

09mike69

13-05-2015, 21:05

You need to check, but I my vague memory is telling me that it might be a 4 Ohm tweeter in the Ditton 44.

ive been offered one at£70 posted but im thinking that sounds a bit much....?

tommy6206

13-05-2015, 21:09

No I dont sorry but you need to check the good one to make sure you get the right one..And £70 posted is not bad I have seen them go for more...

spendorman

13-05-2015, 21:16

No I dont sorry but you need to check the good one to make sure you get the right one..And £70 posted is not bad I have seen them go for more...

Agreed, if it's a correct good one, that is not too bad.

09mike69

13-05-2015, 21:27

Agreed, if it's a correct good one, that is not too bad.

maybe. but theres a pair of ditton 25's with that tweeter in them for £155 obo. also will it make that much difference if its not an 8 or 4ohm?

09mike69

13-05-2015, 21:30

maybe. but theres a pair of ditton 25's with that tweeter in them for £155 obo. also will it make that much difference if its not an 8 or 4ohm?

im using a 6ohm (an old pos i had laying around)as a replacement for now and it sounds fine.

spendorman

14-05-2015, 15:05

You need the right impedance tweeter so that the output level and crossover freq. are correct.

I have just measured what I believe are four good Ditton 44 HF2000's, they measure between 4.2 and 4.8 Ohms on my multimeter.

09mike69

14-05-2015, 19:14

spendorman

14-05-2015, 19:20

are those 8ohm that you measured?.

There is no marking on them, but they are from Ditton 44's.

I have a 5th one which measures over 6 Ohms and has very little output, I believe it to be faulty.

A 6th one!! is completely open circuit.

09mike69

14-05-2015, 19:50

There is no marking on them, but they are from Ditton 44's.

I have a 5th one which measures over 6 Ohms and has very little output, I believe it to be faulty.

A 6th one!! is completely open circuit.

i have two others but they're the 25 mkI, plus im not goin to split a pair of perfectly good speakers. i offered the guy 50 for his hf2000 but he hasnt replied, they go on ebay for about that and he wouldnt have any fees to pay so i think thats a fair offer.

spendorman

14-05-2015, 20:04

i have two others but they're the 25 mkI, plus im not goin to split a pair of perfectly good speakers. i offered the guy 50 for his hf2000 but he hasnt replied, they go on ebay for about that and he wouldnt have any fees to pay so i think thats a fair offer.

I believe that those 25 MK1 HF2000's don't have the front mounting flange as on the 44. The connections are on the front, you could put a multimeter across and measure their resistance.

There is a pair of 44's on ebay at the moment for £175, not a bad price.

09mike69

14-05-2015, 20:44

I believe that those 25 MK1 HF2000's don't have the front mounting flange as on the 44. The connections are on the front, you could put a multimeter across and measure their resistance.

There is a pair of 44's on ebay at the moment for £175, not a bad price.

yes the 25's are mounted differently. 175 is good but then id be 1 spending more than id care to, and 2 breaking another pair of speakers and i just dont like doing that especially with good vintage speakers. have you considered selling the one you have that you believe to be faulty?.

09mike69

14-05-2015, 20:50

yes the 25's are mounted differently. 175 is good but then id be 1 spending more than id care to, and 2 breaking another pair of speakers and i just dont like doing that especially with good vintage speakers. have you considered selling the one you have that you believe to be faulty?.

dont they need to be disconnected from the cross-over before measuring?.

spendorman

14-05-2015, 20:50

yes the 25's are mounted differently. 175 is good but then id be 1 spending more than id care to, and 2 breaking another pair of speakers and i just dont like doing that especially with good vintage speakers. have you considered selling the one you have that you believe to be faulty?.

No I don't like breaking speakers, but will do to make one good pair out of two duff pairs.

I would not want to sell anyone what I consider is a faulty unit. I expect a lot on ebay are faulty.

spendorman

14-05-2015, 20:52

dont they need to be disconnected from the cross-over before measuring?.

Not necessarily, I will look for a 25 diagram to make sure.

09mike69

14-05-2015, 20:59

No I don't like breaking speakers, but will do to make one good pair out of two duff pairs.

I would not want to sell anyone what I consider is a faulty unit. I expect a lot on ebay are faulty.

fair point.

09mike69

14-05-2015, 21:01

Not necessarily, I will look for a 25 diagram to make sure.

thanks that would be helpful, i dont want to de-solder it if i dont need to.

spendorman

14-05-2015, 21:12

thanks that would be helpful, i dont want to de-solder it if i dont need to.

Can only find two diags for the 25 on the internet, and they are contradictory. Try and measure, If the HF2000's are working fine and you get nought point something of an Ohm, then you can't measure the tweeters without disconnecting. If you get around 4 Ohms or more, you are measuring the tweeter.

Best short the meter leads together before the test to see that the meter reads close to zero, if not, deduct this from the reading that you get of the tweeter.

To isolate the tweeter, you would only need to unsolder one lead anyway.

09mike69

14-05-2015, 21:59

Can only find two diags for the 25 on the internet, and they are contradictory. Try and measure, If the HF2000's are working fine and you get nought point something of an Ohm, then you can't measure the tweeters without disconnecting. If you get around 4 Ohms or more, you are measuring the tweeter.

Best short the meter leads together before the test to see that the meter reads close to zero, if not, deduct this from the reading that you get of the tweeter.

To isolate the tweeter, you would only need to unsolder one lead anyway.

thanks for taking the time, i'll check it tomorrow, no point to check the ones on the 25's, but i need to check my other one so i can match it. regarding the low output one you have, the one on mine, and the cheapo replacement put out very little sound, could it be that its because they are the 4ohm versions.

spendorman

14-05-2015, 22:15

thanks for taking the time, i'll check it tomorrow, no point to check the ones on the 25's, but i need to check my other one so i can match it. regarding the low output one you have, the one on mine, and the cheapo replacement put out very little sound, could it be that its because they are the 4ohm versions.

On the 44, you can check the tweeter without disconnecting it. The last capacitor in the crossover isolates it from the DC of the meter.

If you had two tweeters one a 4 Ohm and one a 8 Ohm, used on the same system the 4 Ohm would probably be louder, but it would crossover at a higher frequency.

09mike69

14-05-2015, 22:45

On the 44, you can check the tweeter without disconnecting it. The last capacitor in the crossover isolates it from the DC of the meter.

If you had two tweeters one a 4 Ohm and one a 8 Ohm, used on the same system the 4 Ohm would probably be louder, but it would crossover at a higher frequency.

i'll put the meter on it and see what it reads, but regardless i still need a hf 2000, i think its one of the few ive seen that doesnt have the ohm rating stamped on it. but if i get an 8ohm im thinking it would be a safe bet, better to be over than under-rated, is that sound thinking?

spendorman

15-05-2015, 07:10

i'll put the meter on it and see what it reads, but regardless i still need a hf 2000, i think its one of the few ive seen that doesnt have the ohm rating stamped on it. but if i get an 8ohm im thinking it would be a safe bet, better to be over than under-rated, is that sound thinking?

No not really, all the indications are that the Ditton 44 uses a low impedance HF2000, a higher impedance HF2000 would give low output and cross over at a lower frequency than spec.

09mike69

15-05-2015, 14:59

No not really, all the indications are that the Ditton 44 uses a low impedance HF2000, a higher impedance HF2000 would give low output and cross over at a lower frequency than spec.

i measured the good tweeter and showed between 4.2 and 4.1ohm, so if i get one that measures the same, i should be ok right??

spendorman

15-05-2015, 15:05

i measured the good tweeter and showed between 4.2 and 4.1ohm, so if i get one that measures the same, i should be ok right??

That ties up with my measurements, so yes, go for a low impedance HF2000, let's call it a 4 Ohm unit.

Just because a tweeter measures the correct DC resistance does not mean that it's a fully functional unit, but it's a good start.

09mike69

15-05-2015, 15:30

That ties up with my measurements, so yes, go for a low impedance HF2000, let's call it a 4 Ohm unit.

Just because a tweeter measures the correct DC resistance does not mean that it's a fully functional unit, but it's a good start.

but if it is working and measures 4.2ohm ish it would be suitable for my replacement?

spendorman

15-05-2015, 15:55

but if it is working and measures 4.2ohm ish it would be suitable for my replacement?

It might be a good "4 Ohm" unit, or it might be an 8 Ohm with some shorted turns of the voice coil making read like a good "4 Ohm unit". Then, of course, there is the question of the coil is rubbing on the pole pieces.

09mike69

15-05-2015, 15:57

but if it is working and measures 4.2ohm ish it would be suitable for my replacement?

i also took the other one apart, hoping it was a break, but sadly it was cooked, oh well worth a try i suppose.

09mike69

15-05-2015, 16:02

It might be a good "4 Ohm" unit, or it might be an 8 Ohm with some shorted turns of the voice coil making read like a good "4 Ohm unit". Then, of course, there is the question of the coil is rubbing on the pole pieces.

well, if i find one that measures around 4ohm, thats working, it'll have to do. thanks for your time and effort. mike.

spendorman

15-05-2015, 16:02

i also took the other one apart, hoping it was a break, but sadly it was cooked, oh well worth a try i suppose.

Shame, I have seen the same. It may be worth checking the capacitors in the crossover. I don't think they are electrolytic in the tweeter section, a good thing.

I reckon that quite a few KEFT27's are blown by out of spec electrolytic caps in some old KEF crossovers.

spendorman

15-05-2015, 16:04

well, if i find one that measures around 4ohm, thats working, it'll have to do. thanks for your time and effort. mike.

That is all you can really do.

09mike69

15-05-2015, 19:34

That is all you can really do.

pretty much. if you ever decide to sell one of yours could i get first refusal please. thanks again, mike.

spendorman

15-05-2015, 19:40

pretty much. if you ever decide to sell one of yours could i get first refusal please. thanks again, mike.

Would have to be in my will! I am using Rogers BBC LS3/6 which has HF2000's as supertweeters, I also have them in my Ditton 44's, so I need to keep a spare or two!

09mike69

15-05-2015, 20:40

Would have to be in my will! I am using Rogers BBC LS3/6 which has HF2000's as supertweeters, I also have them in my Ditton 44's, so I need to keep a spare or two!

how old are you:lol:

spendorman

15-05-2015, 20:43

how old are you:lol:

Well, it's pension time soon!

And the LS3/6's are keepers. Perhaps I'll be buried in them.

09mike69

15-05-2015, 20:50

Well, it's pension time soon!

And the LS3/6's are keepers. Perhaps I'll be buried in them.

yes, you have the boxes an leave me the tweeter.

spendorman

15-05-2015, 21:16

yes, you have the boxes an leave me the tweeter.

You'll have to pay the Inheritance tax.

By the way, my Mother lived to the age of 102 years, so If I'm like her, it will be a long wait!

09mike69

15-05-2015, 21:40

You'll have to pay the Inheritance tax.

By the way, my Mother lived to the age of 102 years, so If I'm like her, it will be a long wait!

im sure one will come up before then, if the chap still has it and it measures the same as mine, i mjght up my offer to him, i also have a chance at some b&o 5700 but they also have a blown tweeter:scratch:

spendorman

15-05-2015, 21:48

Get the 5700's, gives you the tweeter that you need, plus the Celestion dome mids are an upgrade on the cone mids in the 44. I think you could use the 44 crossover as is.

mad-moon

15-05-2015, 21:52

They are a canny ride out to Hartlepool...

http://www.gumtree.com/p/speakers/wharfedale-dovedale-3-classic-hifi-speakers/1116270149

09mike69

15-05-2015, 21:55

Get the 5700's, gives you the tweeter that you need, plus the Celestion dome mids are an upgrade on the cone mids in the 44. I think you could use the 44 crossover as is.

i'll have them tomorrow, the dust caps on the woofer are missing too but they work, but if they sound as good as the reviews say i'll be looking for another tweeter,

spendorman

15-05-2015, 21:59

i'll have them tomorrow, the dust caps on the woofer are missing too but they work, but if they sound as good as the reviews say i'll be looking for another tweeter,

I believe that missing dust caps are common on that speaker. My friend said that his were missing. He said that they were not bad at all, but the Ditton 44 with the dome mid mod was better.

09mike69

15-05-2015, 22:19

I believe that missing dust caps are common on that speaker. My friend said that his were missing. He said that they were not bad at all, but the Ditton 44 with the dome mid mod was better.

i need to get the hf2000 mod first:lol:

09mike69

15-05-2015, 22:21

They are a canny ride out to Hartlepool...

http://www.gumtree.com/p/speakers/wharfedale-dovedale-3-classic-hifi-speakers/1116270149

had apair of those and they are quite nice. but i need a hf2000 tweeter,

09mike69

19-05-2015, 12:40

still looking for a hf2000 tweeter.:scratch:
cheers,
mike.:scratch

spendorman

19-05-2015, 12:44

still looking for a hf2000 tweeter.:scratch:
cheers,
mike.:scratch

If you want a cheap and good bodge, get a pair of JPW Gold Monitors and use the tweeters from them, they are very good.

09mike69

19-05-2015, 13:31

If you want a cheap and good bodge, get a pair of JPW Gold Monitors and use the tweeters from them, they are very good.

ive got a stand-in for now but im really after an original. the chap i mentioned that has one, well i asked him to measure it and he said it measured 0.02ohm then when i said mine measured 4.2ohm in his next message his measured 4.0ohm so im a bit reluctant to buy it. cheers, mike.

spendorman

19-05-2015, 14:12

ive got a stand-in for now but im really after an original. the chap i mentioned that has one, well i asked him to measure it and he said it measured 0.02ohm then when i said mine measured 4.2ohm in his next message his measured 4.0ohm so im a bit reluctant to buy it. cheers, mike.

That is a bit odd, lead resistance of his meter would probably be more than 0.02 Ohm.

09mike69

19-05-2015, 15:20

That is a bit odd, lead resistance of his meter would probably be more than 0.02 Ohm.

thats what i thought, could have been a genuine mistake but i dont think i'll chance it. his web site looks genuine and he seems friendly enough, he seems to have a lot of decent stuff too.. but i asked if he'd audibly tested the tweeter and i havent heard back that was about three days ago, maybe he's just not that bothered if he sells it.

DarrenHW

19-05-2015, 18:17

spendorman

19-05-2015, 18:37

What's the "dome mid mod"?

Using the dome mid from the Ditton 66 in the Ditton 44. My friend did this, very good mod.

DarrenHW

19-05-2015, 18:54

I'd thought about doing this but was too cheap when a pair came up and missed out, something to bear in mind if I see another pair, thanks Alex.

DarrenHW

19-05-2015, 18:55

i'll have them tomorrow, the dust caps on the woofer are missing too but they work, but if they sound as good as the reviews say i'll be looking for another tweeter,

Did you get the 5700's Mike, if so what do you think of them?

09mike69

19-05-2015, 21:03

Did you get the 5700's Mike, if so what do you think of them?

yes, havent had a good listen with them yet but they are better than i thought they would be.

DarrenHW

20-05-2015, 05:46

I'd be interested in your thoughts compared to the 44's. Regarding the HF2000 have you considered replacing them with the SEAS 19TFF1?

09mike69

20-05-2015, 12:50

I'd be interested in your thoughts compared to the 44's. Regarding the HF2000 have you considered replacing them with the SEAS 19TFF1?

i'll wait for an orginal hf, no point dropping £20 on a temporary replacement, i havent done a direct a/b test, but initial thought was the celestions have a bit more bass but B&O have better mid range, bearing in mind the dittons have a 12" woofer compared to the 10" on the bang bangs. cheers, mike.

DarrenHW

20-05-2015, 17:19

That's kind of how I'd expect they'd sound, they look like an excellent centre speaker to me! The SEAS is considered by a few an improvement over the HF2000, Ken has done a lot of work on 66's and considers them a worthwhile upgrade http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31916-Renovation-of-Celestion-66-Studio-Monitors&p=624358#post624358. I have a pair but have yet to fit them so don't speak from experience, nor trying to tell anyone how to suck eggs :).