View Full Version : Strange Fuse Effect
So last night I had to replace a fuse in my Croft S7 power amp after it blew.
New fuse was a T3.12amp slowblow 20mm. This was a slightly tighter fit than the fuse replaced.
The only other thing I did was disconnect all speaker, power and RCA leads and reconnect.
After reconnecting everything and replacing fuse my whole sound seems more dynamic and detailed with a touch more transparency with vocals even more in the room with you.
My thoughts are:
1. Reconnecting or leads has improved connections and removed any possible oxidation?
2. New fuse is a tighter fit and therefore better connection?
3. When the fuse blew my amp suffered a small amount of electrical burn in:scratch:??
4. I am imagining things:lol:
Ali Tait
22-04-2015, 11:44
I'd go for 1.
That's no surprise, mate, as it's happened to me umpteen times! Therefore, worry not, you're not going ga-ga :eyebrows:
Like any other components, fuses wear out with use (the filaments becoming stressed when equipment is continually switched on and off), and as such their ability to perform to their original specification becomes compromised. In a high-quality and revealing system, the sonic effect of that is often audible.
As part of my annual 'system maintenance program', I replace all the internal fuses in my equipment, polishing the metal end caps in the process, using Duraglit, and remove any residue with isopropyl alcohol, then pop in some new ones of the same type and value.
That alone, is an excellent and cheap upgrade - and if you want to go further into the realms of 'la-la land', try experimenting with some 'audiophile fuses' (not the ridiculously expensive ones, though) and you may be even more surprised at the results.... ;)
Marco.
1 and 2. but maybe 2 mostly. fuses are a link in the chain and do wear out ..on the way they are bound to change metalurgically
That's no surprise, mate, as it's happened to me umpteen times! Therefore, worry not, you're not going ga-ga :eyebrows:
Like any other components, fuses wear out with use (becoming stressed when equipment is continually switched on and off), and as such their ability to perform to their original specification becomes compromised. In a high-quality and revealing system, the sonic effect of that is often audible.
As part of my 'annual system maintenance program', I replace all the internal fuses in my equipment, polishing the metal end caps in the process, using Duraglit, and then remove any residue with isopropyl alcohol, then refit.
That alone, is an excellent and cheap upgrade - and if you want to go further into the realms of 'la-la land', try experimenting with some 'audiophile' fuses (not the ridiculously expensive ones, though) and you may be even more surprised at the results.... ;)
Marco.
Hi Marco,
Been enjoying some pics of your Merc - very nice:thumbsup: That would take my interest away from HIFI for a bit:lol:
As I got a box of 10 of these fuses think I will replace the other two in the Croft S7 aswell.
Something has definitely changed - and for the better!
Might have a look if there are any in the preamp to replace whilst I am at it!
1 and 2. but maybe 2 mostly. fuses are a link in the chain and do wear out ..on the way they are bound to change metalurgically
Hi Grant, didn,t know they wore out but I suppose the constant switching on and off will affect to metalurgy. Of course some sceptics will think I am imaging things but I have definitely heard a noticeable improvement.
The new fuses also fit tighter in their respective fuse holders so this may also help:scratch:
Hi Jimbo,
How's it going? :)
Been enjoying some pics of your Merc - very nice... That would take my interest away from HIFI for a bit...
Just a tad! What normal person, after having bought a car like that, especially with the weather we're enjoying now, would instead wish to be cooped up inside the house fannying around with hi-fi? :mental: ;)
It's not that I've lost interest in hi-fi (or listening to music - God forbid), simply that I've got better things to keep me occupied at the moment!!
Plus, for me, hi-fi always takes a back seat when the good weather comes, so you're far more likely to see me outside in the fresh air, doing some gardening, or out for a nice drive in the country, or at the pub just along from me enjoying a few beers with my dad, or if it's in the evening, some friends.
It's called having a life, which certain other folk 'elsewhere' don't seem to be privileged with! :D
As I got a box of 10 of these fuses think I will replace the other two in the Croft S7 aswell.
Something has definitely changed - and for the better!
Might have a look if there are any in the preamp to replace whilst I am at it!
You should obtain all the fuses you need, with the right values, and replace the old ones with them. If you do that, cumulatively, you'll notice a reasonable sonic improvement.
Marco.
Ali Tait
22-04-2015, 12:32
Hi Grant, didn,t know they wore out but I suppose the constant switching on and off will affect to metalurgy. Of course some sceptics will think I am imaging things but I have definitely heard a noticeable improvement.
The new fuses also fit tighter in their respective fuse holders so this may also help:scratch:
If you're imagining things, you're not the only one. Unplugging, cleaning and reconnecting all the leads in my system every so often does make a difference.
Which goes to prove that it should be done more often! ;) [Cleaning all contacts properly, that is, not simply just plugging and unplugging leads].
Unfortunately, a bit like cars, some folk seem to think that hi-fi systems just 'work', and that they can be relied upon to perform optimally at all times, with little or no maintenance.... :doh:
Marco.
Hi Jimbo,
How's it going? :)
Just a tad! What normal person, after having bought a car like that, especially with the weather we're enjoying now, would instead wish to be cooped up inside the house fannying around with hi-fi? :mental: ;)
It's not that I've lost interest in hi-fi (or listening to music - God forbid), simply that I've got better things to keep me occupied at the moment!!
Plus, for me, hi-fi always takes a back seat when the good weather is here, so you're far more likely to see me outside in the fresh air, doing some gardening, or out for a nice drive in the country, or at the pub just along from me enjoying a few beers with my dad, or if it's in the evening, some friends.
It's called having a life, which certain other folk 'elsewhere' don't seem to be privileged with! :D
You should obtain all the fuses you need, with the right values, and replace the old ones with them. If you do that, cumulatively, you'll notice a reasonable sonic improvement.
Marco.
Glad your enjoying life and the new motor. Sometimes having a distraction like that means when you do return to your other interest it is with renewed vigour.
I cycle in the summer so hifi takes a back seat, might post up a nice Lycra pic if you can stomach it:lol:
I'd say 4, probably. But of course there's no way of knowing.
PaulStewart
22-04-2015, 19:24
For many years, I have cleaned the end caps and holders of all my system fuses with Brasso wadding or DuraGlit. I also clean the connectors of mains plugs and sockets the same way. For the last few years I have also treated them with DeOxit. I do this with the annual service, or if I make any changes to the system.
daytona600
22-04-2015, 21:27
fuse just could have better contact with the pcb mounted fuse clips
or apply contact cleaner or enchancer to the fuse & fuse clips , much cheaper than buying fancy mains Fuses
Walker SST myself every connection in my system is covered in it
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/walker3/one.jpg
How much does that stuff cost, Scott? :)
Marco.
How much does that stuff cost, Scott? :)
Marco.
its not cheap ;)
That's what I'm trying to determine... Scott's claiming that it's cheaper than buying audiophile fuses, so I'd like to see the evidence. I guess it depends on how many bog standard fuses you're upgrading or replacing.
Marco.
https://walkeraudio.com/shop/e-sst-sst-extreme-super-silver-treatment-for-contacts/
$185 in the us of a
Yoinks! A fuse thread....
:uhho::sofa:
British high fidelity
23-04-2015, 02:16
Fook me 185 usd, duraglit it is then
jandl100
23-04-2015, 05:45
Walker SST - blimey that takes me back to my crazed youth! :lol:
-- I recall those sponge prongs with affection. :eyebrows:
I had a jar of that decades ago - probably about 25-30 years or more :scratch: I suppose it got a good mention in a mag - I read lots of them back then.
I recall it as horrible stuff to use, sticky/slimey and gets everywhere if you aren't careful (but then, I am a clumsy oaf) and is a bit of a booger to get residue off kit.
But mayhap they have improved the formula over the decades.
Sonically? - umm, not much to report! -- but my system wasn't very high rez back then, I guess.
I stopped using it, then went back to it after a year or 3, and it had solidified in the jar.
daytona600
23-04-2015, 07:34
How much does that stuff cost, Scott? :)
Marco.
£ 74.99
works on any electrical connection
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue20/walkersst.htm
That's what I'm trying to determine... Scott's claiming that it's cheaper than buying audiophile fuses, so I'd like to see the evidence. I guess it depends on how many bog standard fuses you're upgrading or replacing.
Marco.
i my old life used to work for the largest fuse supplier in europe
small electronic fuses are pence each £40/per 1000
audiophile fuses are £30-40 each just a OEM fuse bussmann/littelfuse/ferraz etc with silver end caps
industrial fuses with silver elements & end caps about a kilos each & hundreds of amps are £ 40
£ 74.99
works on any electrical connection
That's less than I thought - and I presume you sell it? How easy is it to apply neatly, and how quickly does it take to dry/set? :)
My understanding is that the better 'audiophile fuses' use copper, and sometimes silver, filaments, as well as gold-plated/copper and/or silver end caps. That's likely to be where the most noticeable sonic improvements will be realised, but at considerable cost!
However, I guess that the best fuse is no fuse, but safety must always come first.
Marco.
£ 74.99
works on any electrical connection
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue20/walkersst.htm
That's what I'm trying to determine... Scott's claiming that it's cheaper than buying audiophile fuses, so I'd like to see the evidence. I guess it depends on how many bog standard fuses you're upgrading or replacing.
Marco.
i my old life used to work for the largest fuse supplier in europe
small electronic fuses are pence each £40/per 1000
audiophile fuses are £30-40 each just a OEM fuse bussmann/littelfuse/ferraz etc with silver end caps
industrial fuses with silver elements & end caps about a kilos each & hundreds of amps are £ 40
Looks like Silclear contact enhancer which costs $35. Messy stuff though.
Ali Tait
23-04-2015, 09:33
Buy some of this-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Certified-Darathene-Moisture-Repellent-for-Electrical-Equipment-Industrial-15oz-/151631913078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234df76076
A couple of cans can will last you a lifetime.
That's less than I thought - and I presume you sell it? How easy is it to apply neatly, and how quickly does it take to dry/set? :)
My understanding is that the better 'audiophile fuses' use copper, and sometimes silver, filaments, as well as gold-plated/copper and/or silver end caps. That's likely to be where the most noticeable sonic improvements will be realised, but at considerable cost!
However, I guess that the best fuse is no fuse, but safety must always come first.
Marco.
Interesting Stuff Marco when you drill down into the detail on fuses. There are 3 in the back of my Croft Amp all T3.12amp so not easy to get audiophile versions!
Considering the mains supply and other parts of the amp are protected with these fuses there must be an influence on performance. Begs the question going to so much effort with plugs, sockets and power leads etc if it all ends up flowing through a crap fuse installed in the equipment itself this must be something that needs looking at?
When the Croft S7 amp fuse blew the amp still gave a very distorted output to the speakers. I am not a techy so might be wrong but this would suggest electricity flowing through these fuses is cetainly influenced by the fuse and hence the quality and construction of the fuse could be paramount.
I think there was a discussion on Stans DACS benefitting from better fuses and their influence on SQ so if there were any high quality T3.12amp fuses out there I would very much like to try them!:)
brian2957
23-04-2015, 09:50
I fitted one of these into my Beresford Capella last night http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=45_88&products_id=467
Initial impressions are a slight improvement in focus and detail . Good value at £6 IMO.
I have had a look at the construction of the T3.12a fuse that came out of the Croft and believe it had nickel end caps with a straight fuse wire of undermined material.
Other fuses I have seen conforming to the T3.12a spec have a curly wire used as fuse and the ones I had from Maplins are nickel capped with a straight fuse wire with a blob in the middle.
Ok so they all do the same thing but I bet one sounds better than the others.
I will try and find some other fuses for this specification manufactured from better materials etc such as the Mark Grant fuses but it may be difficult to get anything better.
I have had a look at the construction of the T3.12a fuse that came out of the Croft and believe it had nickel end caps with a straight fuse wire of undermined material.
Other fuses I have seen conforming to the T3.12a spec have a curly wire used as fuse and the ones I had from Maplins are nickel capped with a straight fuse wire with a blob in the middle.
Ok so they all do the same thing but I bet one sounds better than the others.
I will try and find some other fuses for this specification manufactured from better materials etc such as the Mark Grant fuses but it may be difficult to get anything better.
If you are doing this trial, then I suggest that you try and get hold of ceramic fuses as well as the more common and cheaper glass bodied type. It's no coincidence that the 'hifi' variety are usually ceramic bodied....
Interesting Stuff Marco when you drill down into the detail on fuses. There are 3 in the back of my Croft Amp all T3.12amp so not easy to get audiophile versions!
Considering the mains supply and other parts of the amp are protected with these fuses there must be an influence on performance. Begs the question going to so much effort with plugs, sockets and power leads etc if it all ends up flowing through a crap fuse installed in the equipment itself this must be something that needs looking at?
Indeed, which is why I attended to that area of my system FIRST before investing in 'fancy' plugs, sockets and mains leads! ;)
Look, the fact is that the best fuse is no fuse (all fuses are sonically a bad idea), but safety MUST come first before sound quality, so what you're doing by upgrading from bog-standard internal equipment fuses is minimising the effect of the bottleneck, by reducing resistance and impedance, as far as it is possible and safe to do.
If you want to hear more of what the effect of having no fuse is like, bearing in mind that I do NOT recommend doing this other than as a quick experiment, then try fitting a fuse with an uprated amperage value, such as a 5 or 10A one, in place of the 2 or 3A item that's currently fitted.
I guarantee you'll hear an immediate sonic improvement, simply because you're diluting the effect of the bottleneck, created by the lower-amperage fuse, through reducing resistance and impedance, and crucially, allowing the amp to draw more current when the music signal demands, the effect of which should be audible in any high-resolution system.
*HOWEVER*, and I must stress this.... THE CORRECT RATING OF FUSE, FITTED BY THE MANUFACTURER, SHOULD BE REFITTED AT ONCE, after the experiment has been conducted. AOS OR I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY INCIDENTS THAT SHOULD OCCUR IF ANY UPRATED FUSES ARE USED IN EQUIPMENT PERMANENTLY.
'Audiophile fuses' of the correct value, whilst not providing the same effect as uprated amperage ones, will address the piss-poor construction of bog-standard fuses, and the sonic degradation that occurs as a result, by reducing resistance and impedance, through their construction with better materials (end caps and filaments), which offer superior conductivity. Therefore, those are the SAFE option to choose, simply by replacing the existing fuses in your equipment with them, observing that the same type and value is selected, as was originally fitted by the manufacturer.
In your circumstances, with your Croft, I've had a quick search and Hi-Fi Tuning do a 3.15A (T), for time delay (as opposed to quick blow), shown here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hi-FI-Tuning-20mm-x-5mm-Fuse-3-15A-T-Silver-Star-/390867222838?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5b01808136
Those should be safe to use (although check first with Glenn), or see if the same company produce the 3.12A fuses you currently have fitted in your amps.
Marco.
If you are doing this trial, then I suggest that you try and get hold of ceramic fuses as well as the more common and cheaper glass bodied type. It's no coincidence that the 'hifi' variety are usually ceramic bodied....
Yes, that's a good point. It depends on how much you want to spend at once. Fitting ceramic fuses, as opposed to the more common glass ones, will give you a taster of what a 'full blown' audiophile fuse will do :)
Marco.
Interestingly I spoke with a friend the other day who is a Croft dealer and apparently he didn't use fuses in some of his older amp designs.
Think they are there to conform to modern EU safety and CE certification.!
Indeed, which is why I attended to that area of my system FIRST before investing in 'fancy' plugs, sockets and mains leads! ;)
Look, the fact is that the best fuse is no fuse (all fuses are sonically a bad idea), but safety MUST come first before sound quality, so what you're doing by upgrading from bog-standard internal equipment fuses is minimising the effect of the bottleneck, by reducing resistance and impedance, as far as it is possible and safe to do.
If you want to hear more of what the effect of having no fuse is like, bearing in mind that I do NOT recommend doing this other than as a quick experiment, then try fitting a fuse with an uprated amperage value, such as a 5 or 10A one, in place of the 2 or 3A item that's currently fitted.
I guarantee you'll hear an immediate sonic improvement, simply because you're diluting the effect of the bottleneck, created by the lower-amperage fuse, through reducing resistance and impedance, and crucially, allowing the amp to draw more current when the music signal demands, the effect of which should be audible in any high-resolution system.
*HOWEVER*, and I must stress this.... THE CORRECT RATING OF FUSE, FITTED BY THE MANUFACTURER, SHOULD BE REFITTED AT ONCE, after the experiment has been conducted. AOS OR I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY INCIDENTS THAT SHOULD OCCUR IF ANY UPRATED FUSES ARE USED IN EQUIPMENT PERMANENTLY.
'Audiophile fuses' of the correct value, whilst not providing the same effect as uprated amperage ones, will address the piss-poor construction of bog-standard fuses, and the sonic degradation that occurs as a result, by reducing resistance and impedance, through their construction with better materials (end caps and filaments), which offer superior conductivity. Therefore, those are the SAFE option to choose, simply by replacing the existing fuses in your equipment with them, observing that the same type and value is selected, as was originally fitted by the manufacturer.
In your circumstances, with your Croft, I've had a quick search and Hi-Fi Tuning do a 3.15A (T), for time delay (as opposed to quick blow), shown here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hi-FI-Tuning-20mm-x-5mm-Fuse-3-15A-T-Silver-Star-/390867222838?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5b01808136
Those should be safe to use (although check first with Glenn), or see if the same company produce the 3.12A fuses you currently have fitted in your amps.
Marco.
Thanks for that Marco - think you have certainly got me on the right track there with the HIFI-tuning.com fuses.
Just found this interesting article whilst noodling on the net.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/hifi-tuning-fuses
It's the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses I use, Jim, and they definitely do improve matters. Essentially, the best 'audiophile fuses' are those that get closest to achieving the sonic effect of no fuse, just the same as the 'best' interconnects are those that get closest to achieving the effect of hard-wiring.
All this stuff is simply about reducing the amount of bottlenecks your equipment has to go through, in order to faithfully reproduce recorded music. You want to make that job as easy for it as possible by 'opening the window' as widely as you can, thus giving your system the greatest chance to perform at its maximum potential :)
Marco.
maxrob200
24-04-2015, 00:49
I used a Bussmann ceramic body fuse in place of the standard fuse in my Caiman II and there was a noticeable change (for the better) in sound quality. From reports that I've read online "audiophile" fuses may not meet all UL electrical requirements and may not perform as advertised in the event of power surges etc whereas companies like Bussmann and Littelfuse have compliance with the standards for their fuse applications.
Anthony K
24-04-2015, 10:36
Also using Hifi Tuning Supreme fuse in my headamp , seems expensive until you hear it.
AMR fuses are cheaper but less profound:)
I still find it hard to believe a fuse can make any difference until I heard what happened with my power amp!
Anthony K
24-04-2015, 13:32
Will be interesting to hear the effects of the Phonosophie & Synergistic Research fuses as those seem to be the most highly rated
Hi Anthony, those Synergistic fuses look interesting and some of the comments regarding their improvement to equipment SQ are very positive.
Where can these be obtained?
Anthony K
24-04-2015, 15:01
Hi James ,They are available on amazon and ebay shops ( Dave at MCRU also ) as well as analogue seduction
Yep - definitely not imaging it!
Just put system on and listening this afternoon. Sounds more dynamic with better detail and imaging. Ridiculous to think change of fuse can have such an effect. Almost reminds me of the difference going from modern tubes to NOS but not obviously so pronounced.
All I can say I was was not expecting any change whatsoever and for a few pence just changing the fuse has given me that bit extra. Now going to look at some of those audiophile fuses that have been mentioned in previous posts.
Anthony K
24-04-2015, 18:22
Yeah hard to believe , lots of doubters but hearing is believing , the hifi tuning fuse has a different sound signature dependant on how it's facing
walpurgis
24-04-2015, 18:26
Yeah hard to believe , lots of doubters but hearing is believing , the hifi tuning fuse has a different sound signature dependant on how it's facing
I agree. Fuse polarity is often not considered
Last year my McIntosh amp main fuse (the original and some years old) broke during one thunderstorm evening and next morning replaced that with some standard wallmart fuse with suitable value. Did not change anything else as used the systems main power switch during operation but immediately noticed that something changed, and things went for the worse. The familiar dynamics and realism of my system were gone and I was really surprised for this.
After a while discussed with one experienced dealer about the issue and he had similar view already shared here earlier by Marco. Despite my sceptic mind bought set of AMR gold "hifi" fuses from him and promised to give it a try. To my surprise the improvement clear. The familiar sound was there added even with some resolution and more silent backround. Have changed the fuses back and forth afterwards with a friend and he had same experiences than I did.
Despite I do not 100% know the mechanism behind this, still consider this fairly nice improvement with good price ratio and have been planning to try out some other fuses also if can find some differences there. So perhaps worth of a shot for others also.. :)
As far as I am concerned the improvement from using these fuses is clear. I've had a hifi tuning fuse and an AMR mains fuse on the hifi for a while. I put the hifi tuning fuse into my Onkyo AV receiver the other day and the bass suddenly became a lot deeper, I think the separation also improved but this was harder to assess. A couple of days later I put the AMR into the fuse of the plug of my Belkin p60 which feeds the Panasonic plasma, humax and Onkyo. The picture on the tv improved a lot. Colours became much more vivid without being overdone. The picture also became clearer of terms of definition. I now need a couple more audiophile fuses.
One of the mods on the Stax energiser is the replacement of the internal fuse with a Synergistic Research type so. I don't know what difference it makes but can't do any harm.
Parts connexion in Canada have a closeout deal on internal hifi tuning fuses. Including postage they come out at about £20 a pop. They don't have UK mains fuses.
Padis fuses available on German eBay are supposedly the same as the Furutech ones, again about £20, no UK mains size available.
Anthony K
25-04-2015, 10:00
Vertex Aq also use a syn research fuse in their higher priced filters
A somewhat subjective question, If I may, on an already subjective topic, would one have the greater 'potential' for efficacy in replacing the 13Amp mains fuse in the cable powering an item of equipment OR the main internal fuse, ie 3.15Amp, of same?
A somewhat subjective question, If I may, on an already subjective topic, would one have the greater 'potential' for efficacy in replacing the 13Amp mains fuse in the cable powering an item of equipment OR the main internal fuse, ie 3.15Amp, of same?
Roger, the fuse I replaced in the power amp was a T3.12a slow blow. This is where I heard the difference. Not tried mains lead plug fuse.
If its the same as mains cables the fuse nearest the socket will probably make the most difference. I'd start with first mains fuse.
TVM Gent's, I was considering a tentative start with an 13Amp at point of mains ingress, together with the chassis fuses on CDP, Pre and Power, evaluating incrementally of course.
Anthony K
25-04-2015, 14:55
The biggest change will be with internal fuse in amp and cdp , I have 2 in my isotek power conditioner and this gave a much cleaner fuller sound also.
Yet to try the 13 amp on mains
im not paying 40 quid for a fuse.
Last year my McIntosh amp main fuse (the original and some years old) broke during one thunderstorm evening and next morning replaced that with some standard wallmart fuse with suitable value. Did not change anything else as used the systems main power switch during operation but immediately noticed that something changed, and things went for the worse. The familiar dynamics and realism of my system were gone and I was really surprised for this.
After a while discussed with one experienced dealer about the issue and he had similar view already shared here earlier by Marco. Despite my sceptic mind bought set of AMR gold "hifi" fuses from him and promised to give it a try. To my surprise the improvement clear. The familiar sound was there added even with some resolution and more silent backround. Have changed the fuses back and forth afterwards with a friend and he had same experiences than I did.
Despite I do not 100% know the mechanism behind this, still consider this fairly nice improvement with good price ratio and have been planning to try out some other fuses also if can find some differences there. So perhaps worth of a shot for others also.. :)
Mika, this happened to me but in reverse. I blew a fuse and then replaced with a new fuse and this is when I heard the difference especially in dynamics and realism, particularly vocals. In fact SQ was really better all round - even noticed by my girlfriend!
I can only really think the fuse I replaced must have been sub standard, poorly constructed or on the way out:scratch:
im not paying 40 quid for a fuse.
Hifi Grant, the fuse I popped in to the Croft were under £3.00 for 10!! from Maplin.
im not paying 40 quid for a fuse.
Me neither
Hifi Grant, the fuse I popped in to the Croft were under £3.00 for 10!! from Maplin.
You got a link Jimbo?
You got a link Jimbo?
Here you go Rich - I was 19 pence out sorry:lol: The fuses in the pic are not the same as the ones I bought in the shop, I will post a pic later.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/search?text=fuses&x=0&y=0
Ok Rich these are the fuses I actually got - don't think they are anything special but they had a profound effect on my Croft power amp.:)
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1122_zps7jl7jxko.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1122_zps7jl7jxko.jpg.html)http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/IMG_1123_zpscygybvib.jpg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/IMG_1123_zpscygybvib.jpg.html)
If you replace those with the Hi-Fi Tuning ones I linked to earlier, Jim, you'll notice a big difference again! ;)
Marco.
If you replace those with the Hi-Fi Tuning ones I linked to earlier, Jim, you'll notice a big difference again! ;)
Marco.
Cant wait to try one mate. Did you see Mika k,s comments on his fuse experience - similar to mine but in reverse:):scratch:
Yup, what that does is strengthen an already strong body of evidence (through collective user practical experience) that audible effects exist with internal fuse upgrades in equipment, and that it isn't 'foo' :)
Marco.
Yup, what that does is strengthen an already strong body of evidence (through collective user practical experience) that audible effects exist with internal fuse upgrades in equipment, and that it isn't 'foo' :)
Marco.
To be honest I am amazed at what has happened to the SQ of my system and am still scratching my head!
I received a Synergistic Reseach mains fuse on Monday. I run a Oyaide power cable from the wall to a Power Inspired mains regenerator. Then a Furutech cable from the regenerator to an Oyaide mains block. Both of these cable use Furutech plugs containing fuses (On a separate note the cables, mains block and regenerator all made a terrific imporvement to the sound of my sytem). I only have 2 mains fuses in the chain as the mains block uses US style plugs without fuses. Previously I had a Hifi tuning fuse and AMR fuse in the chain.
I replaced the AMR with the Synergistic fuse. The Synergisitc fuse is the first in the chain. I let the synergistic fuse settle in for a few hours and switched the system on to warm up. Fist impressions were that the sound was quite closed, it seemded the fuse was going to need to burn in for quite sometime. Also the sound just didn't sound quite "right". The sound did sound a bit fuller.
The AMR fuses do improve the sound but do sound a bit thin in my opinion.
I turned the system on late last might and listened to the entire new Matthew E White album which I know well. Before doing this I reversed the SR fuse in the plug, I'd read quite a few people saying they were directional and mine had been facing the wrong way. It immediately sounded about 70% better than the night before. The fuse had burnt in a fair bit but still I suspect needs quite a while longer. The sound was now fuller. The most obvious and startling difference was the clarity of the words. I could now clearly understand words which previously had merely been incomprehensible mumbling. Matthew does like to mumble!
I'll give a bit more detail in due course.
I received a Synergistic Reseach mains fuse on Monday. I run a Oyaide power cable from the wall to a Power Inspired mains regenerator. Then a Furutech cable from the regenerator to an Oyaide mains block. Both of these cable use Furutech plugs containing fuses (On a separate note the cables, mains block and regenerator all made a terrific imporvement to the sound of my sytem). I only have 2 mains fuses in the chain as the mains block uses US style plugs without fuses. Previously I had a Hifi tuning fuse and AMR fuse in the chain.
I replaced the AMR with the Synergistic fuse. The Synergisitc fuse is the first in the chain. I let the synergistic fuse settle in for a few hours and switched the system on to warm up. Fist impressions were that the sound was quite closed, it seemded the fuse was going to need to burn in for quite sometime. Also the sound just didn't sound quite "right". The sound did sound a bit fuller.
The AMR fuses do improve the sound but do sound a bit thin in my opinion.
I turned the system on late last might and listened to the entire new Matthew E White album which I know well. Before doing this I reversed the SR fuse in the plug, I'd read quite a few people saying they were directional and mine had been facing the wrong way. It immediately sounded about 70% better than the night before. The fuse had burnt in a fair bit but still I suspect needs quite a while longer. The sound was now fuller. The most obvious and startling difference was the clarity of the words. I could now clearly understand words which previously had merely been incomprehensible mumbling. Matthew does like to mumble!
I'll give a bit more detail in due course.
HI Tristan,
from what I have gathered all fuses are directional to an extent but some like the HIFI Tuning are designed to be directional. However I have been experimenting with some of the cheap fuses (T3.12a 20mmx 5mm glass) I bought from Maplins and even these do sound a little different depending on direction used. Also there is variability in these machine made mass produced fuses - have a look at the fuse wire in my close up pics and you will see not only does it taper slightly from one end to the other, it is also constructed differently from fuse to fuse.
Now although I am begining to become a bit of an anorack in my interest in fuse I dont think I will evaluate the whole box scoring them out of 10 for SQ depending on their direction and construction - but I might!:mental:
One thing is for sure the fuse I did replace has made a significant difference and has now urged me on to try some of the audiophile fuses on the market beginning with the HIFI Tuning fuses. The AMR ad Synergistic fuses are also on my radar.:)
Anthony K
29-04-2015, 12:08
The AMR are quite thin sounding , the Hifi tuning Supreme are superb , the Syn Res I have yet to get my hands on but get my hands on I will.
I used to be a powercord nut but I am better now
The SR seem a fair bit better than the standard Hifi Tuning fuses. I wish that wasn't the case as they are more expensive. God knows how good the supreme / red ones are!
Anthony K
29-04-2015, 19:27
Hey Tristan have you seen the transducer to go with the fuses? SR E.C.T
Hey Rich B if your reading this thread don't buy the Maplin fuses, with the coiled wire through the middle -not so good sounding:nono:
Hey Rich B if your reading this thread don't buy the Maplin fuses, with the coiled wire through the middle -not so good sounding:nono:
Noted Jimbo, I'm just keeping an eye on this thread to see who comes up with a budget friendly option which might be worth a punt.
maxrob200
30-04-2015, 03:46
Give the Cooper Bussmann Ceramic body HRC fuses a shot- cheap, sounds good and UL rated
Firebottle
30-04-2015, 06:26
Here is a supplier of ceramic bodied fuses, might be worth a go:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuse-5x20mm-Slow-Blow-CERAMIC-BODY-Multi-Variation-Listings/231297779799?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D30110%26meid%3Da8c756552f6e42c283678d2eb19f 43e7%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dp p%26sd%3D230926483659&rt=nc
:) Alan
I'm using a Synergistic Research fuse somewhere in the system - must try reversing it one day or is that just too sad?
Try it on the 31st of this month.
Marco.
Ok so now replaced the other 2 internal fuses in Croft 7 power amp - think these are for the HT lines.
Power supply fuse made biggest difference as I mentioned last week, however replacing the other 2 fuses has bought about subtle improvements. The sound is now overall slightly smoother and grain free. Vocals are clearer. I believe these other two fuses do wear out as they are subject to a fair bit of stress in protecting the HT circuit?
Ok so now replaced the other 2 internal fuses in Croft 7 power amp - think these are for the HT lines.
Power supply fuse made biggest difference as I mentioned last week, however replacing the other 2 fuses has bought about subtle improvements. The sound is now overall slightly smoother and grain free. Vocals are clearer. I believe these other two fuses do wear out as they are subject to a fair bit of stress in protecting the HT circuit?
Fuses arrived today, cheers Jimbo.
I've done more listening now since inserting the SR fuse. I seem to be able to play the system a lot louder without discomfort. Treble Treble to have been smoothed. There's no hiding poorly recorded cds now, well recorded ones sound gorgeously full and luxurious. The fuse seems to have made the system a lot more revealing.
I've done more listening now since inserting the SR fuse. I seem to be able to play the system a lot louder without discomfort. Treble Treble to have been smoothed. There's no hiding poorly recorded cds now, well recorded ones sound gorgeously full and luxurious. The fuse seems to have made the system a lot more revealing.
Funny that Tristan but although i am not using an audiophile fuse yet the fuses I have used have also had the same effect! I have been able to crank up the volume without it getting shouty but just more dynamic, smooth and liquid. Probably because I am using valves I am getting a more transparent liquid sound.
Soundstage is also filled out and fatter with Instruments and vocals sounding gorgeous. My feeling is the fuse 'bottleneck' has been opened more with my new fuses and thus allowed the music to flow with greater dynamics and less effort.
Now I know some folk will start to think I am bonkers but I popped two new fuses in yesterday which protect the HT lines and I heard them run in, from starting to sound etched and grainy to smooth and transparent! Yes I must be:mental:
All these observations are relative and just as I have heard valves change and cables burn in I have definitely noticed this effect.
Twud be useful if folks who have rolled the orientation of their fuses, and perceived a preference, might indicate the nature of said orientation, perhaps using the ground pin as point of reference :scratch:
Twud be useful if folks who have rolled the orientation of their fuses, and perceived a preference, might indicate the nature of said orientation, perhaps using the ground pin as point of reference :scratch:
Hi Roger, I am not fuse rolling in plugs - Internal amp fuse only at moment and have not tried different orientation yet.
I think the SR fuse is fitted with the writing reading towards the pin. I'll double check this in due course.
choirboy
11-05-2015, 13:53
I've done a bit of experimentation with fuses on my power cords.
I first got hold of some AMR's which did make a subtle improvement to the sound. Although I didn't find them thin at all. Fuller in fact than the stock Bussman silver plated fuses I was using before.
I eventually got some Synergistic Research SR-20's second hand and they in turn improved the sound further, the backgrounds seemed blacker and frequency was more linear from top to bottom.
They are not massively effective blanket tone controls or like having an equipment upgrade though. They simply reveal more of the qualities that are there to begin with. I have to say though that the effect is better observed cumulatively the more you add in. The effect is less pronounced if just swapping out one piece of equipment in my experience.
Can you live without this tweak? Probably due to the expense of some of the fuses (£60 for SR RED!) but once you've got them in reverting back to the stock ones is just not something you wish you do. They do improve the sound of your system though as far as I'm concerned especially if you use more than one.
I've no idea how they fare internally on a piece of equipment but I've heard they make more of a difference sonically than simply placing one in a power cord.
For my money the AMR's are very good value though if you wish to dip your toe in. Whilst the SR Blacks (haven't heard the RED?) are better they're not worth double the price of the AMR's in terms of performance imho - at least not in my system anyway.
I found the correct way with the SR-20 Blacks was placing them with the writing running against the flow of current as many other people have stated on the internet.
Anthony K
11-05-2015, 14:07
Nice 1 Michael :)
Replacing the internal fuse in my head amp (Lehmann) with a Hifi Tuning Supreme (£35) made a huge difference across the board.Soundsatge widened, highs and lows improved and the midrange became fluid and transparent. On replacing the 2 fuses in the powerline conditioner (Isotek) with 2 AMR's (£15 each) the effect was a lot less but still worth the £30 outlay just for the increase in blackness and lowered noise.
I am yet to try the powercord upgrade but have heard that the improvements are very subtle.
I found the correct way with the SR-20 Blacks was placing them with the writing running against the flow of current as many other people have stated on the internet.
AC = Alternating Current ;)
I am intending to replace all my pre and power amps internal fuses when I eventually move my equipment to my new house as I have heard the benefits of replacing some fuses with admitadely cheap replacements.
At the moment I can't decide to use the Synergistic or Hifi tuning fuses, may try both!
Do you think internal fuses make a bigger difference than power chord fuses
choirboy
11-05-2015, 22:00
AC = Alternating Current ;)
Yeah ok, I know it seems insane. But it did for some reason sound better one way that the other.
Might be having another Strange Fuse Effect at the end of this week as I have something being delivered that could be very interesting indeed.
Full report and pics at the weekend:eyebrows:
Firebottle
22-06-2015, 21:04
Tease :ner:
After my initial surprise in finding a replacement Maplin 3.12amp fuse sounded better in my Croft power Series 7 amp I have been determined to investigate further and try other fuses on the market. A number of you here on the site who have contributed to this post have also found some of the 'audiophile' fuses available on the market do indeed improve SQ.
Encouraged by Marco's findings using a Hifi - tuning fuse I decided to go for their top model and bought the HIFI Tuning Supreme fuse which is 99% pure silver and uses a ceramic body rather than glass which is also filled with a proprietry material and cryogenically treated.
There are a number of reviews on the net for this fuse which are all positive so I had promising expectations measured with a little bit of sceptism.
The fuse was used only in the PSU of the Croft 7 and was a nice tight fit in the holder. I switched on my system and allowed some time for the valves to warm up and played one of my favourite test records which I know intimately - Rodrigo and Gabrella's first album. Immediately I noticed the difference although it took sometime to establish where all these differences were. First off the clarity and transparency was on a different level which I later established was because the noise floor had dropped. There was less grain in the upper treble but the biggest improvement was in the bass and midrange which both were more articulate. The Rodrigo album had a better tonality and greater 3 dimentional sound stage. The whole sound was now more realistic but more relaxed. All the detail was there but with a more organic sound. I could play my system louder with greater dynamics.
Next up was some Harry Connick Junior. His first album mastered by Bernie Grundman is superb and again I could turn up the wick with greater sense of instrument tonality and weight. Indeed it was the weight in the bottom end that was more apparent than I had previously heard.
Finally I played some Agnes Noble off here Philharmonics album which is all close miked vocals and lush string and piano recording. Her voice showed just how much the midrange had improved. It was holophonic and spookily transparent in the room. Again the texture of her voice had changed with even more detail.
I need to listen to my system a little more to fully grasp the extent to which this fuse has benefitted my system. I have only one initial caveat and that was with the treble which although had less grain sounded slightly less pronounced. The detail was there but the impression was that it was less prominent. Maybe the grain and fizz accentuated the treble before and spotlighted it?
I have found this new fuse has made just as big a difference as changing a cable which I am surprised at.
There are quite a few fuses in my system so I am now wondering how many more I should try. Next up will be the T1A slow blow in the preamp! Ok these fuses are not cheap but in the context of your system they are a bargain.
Nice one, Jim. Good write up! :)
Whilst of course one would never advocate buying and using these fuses in the context of anything else other than an already well sorted system, in that scenario they can make a notable sonic improvement.
I've never understood how those who buy 'audiophile mains leads', and when using them claim significant sonic improvements, proceed to pooh-pooh the efficacy of 'audiophile fuses' (or at least shy away from going there, for fear of being ridiculed...) At the end of the day, it's ALL wire - and wire which is carrying the 'fuel' [mains electricity] that feeds your hi-fi system, so in that respect the design quality of the fuse is going to have a subtle influence.
Therefore, if you believe in the efficacy of mains leads properly designed for hi-fi purposes, which is what I prefer to call them, then believe also in the efficacy of such fuses, as the sonic improvements they (and similarly designed mains leads) can offer, are intrinsically linked.
Also, if you accept the fact that all fuses in equipment act as electrical 'bottlenecks' [which undoubtedly they do], and that the best fuse is NO fuse, then why shouldn't better designed ones act as LESS of bottleneck? That alone shows that they're making an *actual* difference.
Oh, and if you can't hear it, or don't believe in such 'foo', then worry not, you've saved yourself some money, so run along now, nothing to see here... ;)
Enjoy your improved sounds, Jim, and keep us posted of any new developments! :cool:
Marco.
Personally I suspect 2 or 4.
Cheers Marco, I have had an open mind or should I say ears on this subject and if it wasn't for the discovery I made after blowing a fuse I would never have considered fuses to have such a significant effect!
I know some folk would suggest I am imagining the effects but I can assure them it is easily demonstrated swapping between the fuses. Some folks cannot even hear the difference between IC's never mind power cables and I suggest this is very dependant on a persons hearing abilities.
I have particularly sensitive hearing such that I have to sleep with earplugs and triple glazing!
Since joining AOS I have been on a journey of discovery with building my system and have listened to much advice and recommendations but ultimately it is ones own ears which have determined the selection of components and equipment. I have been surprised by some of the things that have made a difference to my system including cables touching walls and Isolation materials used for my turntable.
As you and others have said 'everything matters' in hifi and even such small details such as fuses do make a difference.
Those who have the ability to hear such differences are either lucky or plagued by the nature of Hifi's never ending potential for improvement.
I don't think it is a question of hearing ability as such. I think it depends on the equipment and other external factors (like noisy mains). And by the equipment I don't mean that it may not be 'good enough' to reveal changes, just the some combinations of kit can be more susceptible to these changes (cables, fuses etc) than others.
It might also be dependant on how we listen , if you are mainly a background listener as opposed to one who concentrates fully on the reproduction, subtle changes/improvements may pass you by. Likewise if you only listen in short bursts, or to odd tracks as opposed to relaxing into a full album. If listening to a whole album as time goes on and you relax and focus more on the sound you become aware of the subtleties. I suspect this is one reason why blind tests tend to give negative results.
I have a spare T3.12A 20mm x 5mm (slow blow) HiFi Tuning Supreme fuse available if anyone would like to try it in their system.
I suggest the PSU fuse in the power amp is a good place to start.
Just PM me if you would like to borrow it.
Wakefield Turntables
27-06-2015, 11:55
Do ultra high end amps use these fancy fuses?
Do ultra high end amps use these fancy fuses?
Not sure if they do.
mad-moon
30-06-2015, 07:06
Also..Buy a bottle of this stuff ...do all your rca's in/outputs..the plugs on your ic's and all your speaker connections..banana plugs/binding posts...pipe cleaners are better than cotton buds....fold them so they are a tighter fit...brush on using the integral brush...and work the pipe cleaners in and out and around...you won't believe the amount of crap that comes off..this will give your sound a real lift..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLUE-HORIZON-CLEAN-IT-CONTACT-CLEANER-RRP-19-95-/361327019219?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5420c4c4d3
Wakefield Turntables
30-06-2015, 18:39
HMMMMmmm. Do you not think that some of the high end designers/researchers would have looked into the effects of expensive fuses? I can only conclude that they don't use them because they can't see a benefit. I'd like to see a £60 fuse in my £100K amp if I was to purchase such an item. Just a thought.....
Errrrmm, AMR obviously! I also seem to recall a couple of posts on a long running American forum thread, on this subject, naming a couple of Heavy Weight manufacturers supplying their $$$$$$$$ units fitted with aftermarket fuses, I shall have a ferret around and try to dig it up again.
I have done some more listening and I have come to think that these fuses can be likened to listening to different cables. They are probably equipment and system dependant as I don't think all folk can hear the difference they make in their system.
From what I have read other reviewers have also found their effects are more pronounced in power amps rather than preamps but also work well in digital equipment negating some of the harsher characteristics some CD players can display.
I swapped back to my cheapo Maplin fuse again and found it did have better top end detail and sounded more airy. The Tuning Supreme fuse was however better in the bottom end and more natural sounding.
This has confused my opinion somewhat but does confirm my original premise that fuses do make a difference. Ultimately it is up to the individual to find what works best in their system, not unlike cable choice or valve choice in amplifiers.
Wakefield Turntables
30-06-2015, 20:19
I wish someone would lend me some of these fuses. I'd love to try them in my system (about £50K worth). I'd be the first to buy a complete set if they made enough of a difference.
I wish someone would lend me some of these fuses. I'd love to try them in my system (about £50K worth). I'd be the first to buy a complete set if they made enough of a difference.
You can borrow my T3.12amp fuse if you can use this?
BilliumB
30-06-2015, 20:58
Has anyone tried this stuff on their fuses?
http://www.antivibrationmagic.ca
Has anyone tried this stuff on their fuses?
http://www.antivibrationmagic.ca
You gotta be joking!
walpurgis
30-06-2015, 21:07
You gotta be joking!
:lol:
I'd just as soon use Marmite!
And I won't say anything about fancy fuses..............
Has anyone tried this stuff on their fuses?
http://www.antivibrationmagic.ca
At a $100 for a little bottle of 'anti-vibration magic'? No!
I wish someone would lend me some of these fuses. I'd love to try them in my system (about £50K worth). I'd be the first to buy a complete set if they made enough of a difference.
If you can afford a £50K system, a few fuses at £50 a go should be nothing to a man of your means!
Wakefield Turntables
01-07-2015, 07:52
If you can afford a £50K system, a few fuses at £50 a go should be nothing to a man of your means!
Thats how I could afford a £50k system, I'm careful with my money. Every penny counts. Anyway I'd need to spend £600 on fuses (at fifty quid a Pop) if I took the plunge. I might take up James on his offer.
Thats how I could afford a £50k system, I'm careful with my money. Every penny counts. Anyway I'd need to spend £600 on fuses (at fifty quid a Pop) if I took the plunge. I might take up James on his offer.
The best thing you can do, Andy, is forget about fuses and buy the Cary preamp, currently for sale on AoS. That will increase the performance of your system rather more than some fuses! ;)
I did point you to it, on the thread you posted about valve preamps, but you didn't reply... Has your idea of a new valve preamp died a death now or what?
Marco.
mad-moon
01-07-2015, 09:57
how two face....I thought you didn't believe in foo...hahahahahahahahahahaha!
Fuses arrived today, cheers Jimbo.
Wakefield Turntables
01-07-2015, 10:22
The best thing you can do, Andy, is forget about fuses and buy the Cary preamp, currently for sale on AoS. That will increase the performance of your system rather more than some fuses! ;)
I did point you to it, on the thread you posted about valve preamps, but you didn't reply... Has your idea of a new valve preamp died a death now or what?
Marco.
Simple answer is no. I'm in the process if posting to quite a few threads, I'll get back to the preamp thread tonight.
BilliumB
01-07-2015, 10:46
At a $100 for a little bottle of 'anti-vibration magic'? No!
If it works like they and others seem to claim (I've never tried it) then it would work out much cheaper than a load of new fuses!
Cheers. Bill
Should point out that if you want to try these fuses just order on the internet and you have 14 days to try them and then return them for a full refund under EU distance selling regulations.
Simple answer is no. I'm in the process if posting to quite a few threads, I'll get back to the preamp thread tonight.
Cool, because trust me, that Cary is an absolute cracker! :eek:
Marco.
Last week a second SR quantum mains fuse arrived. Its now replaced the hifi tuning 13 amp fuse. Both mains fuses for the hifi are SR. The hifi tuning fuse has moved to the AV system.
Having 2 SR fuses is quite an improvement. The music is much clearer, better defined and the treble is smoother.
Just finished the listening session. More space round the instruments, quieter blacker background. Moon Duo sounded surprisingly clear and unmuddled. Morrisey Viva Hate on CD can sound bright and brittle, tonight it was the smoothest I've ever heard it. All of this from changing from a hifi tuning fuse to an SR one. I'd never have believed it.
Anthony K
23-08-2015, 21:22
Was there an improvement or increase in the soundstage depth?
I ask as I am thinking to get 2 SR Red 13amp for UK adapters
anthonyTD
24-08-2015, 12:01
Hi All,
Just a word of warning on using these fuses.
I have had equipment in over the years that have had various HI FI fuses fitted, and witnessed first hand the damage that has been caused.
First, you have to ask yourself: how can a fuse make so much diffrence while maintaining the exact same safety attributes of the original specified fuse fitted ? :scratch:
Anthony,TD...
I use several of these fuses, AMR & SR to good effect. Of course the best fuse is no fuse. Buy schuko plugs.
Stratmangler
24-08-2015, 14:33
Hi All,
Just a word of warning on using these fuses.
I have had equipment in over the years that have had various HI FI fuses fitted, and witnessed first hand the damage that has been caused.
First, you have to ask yourself: how can a fuse make so much diffrence while maintaining the exact same safety attributes of the original specified fuse fitted ? :scratch:
Anthony,TD...
I have a feeling your words may well fall on deaf ears...
anthonyTD
24-08-2015, 14:49
Hmmm, :(
The problem will become apparent when the "superior" fuse doesent break when its suposed to!
Equipment with toroid transformers fitted will love the extra initial inrush current they can draw, seen as they pose an almost dead short characteristic untill the core is energised. I know this from experience after having witnessed the whole fuse holder top being blown off on a large power amp which had had its original fuse substituted with one of these "superior fuses", after the repair to the fuse holder, and the original type fuse replaced, the problem never returned, and the amp returned to performing as it it did before the fuse swap.
All i am saying is, just be aware of the posibilities, and consequences that could arise from fitting these things!
A...
I have a feeling your words may well fall on deaf ears...
Stratmangler
24-08-2015, 15:07
Hmmm, :(
The problem will become apparent when the "superior" fuse doesent break when its suposed to!
Equipment with toroid transformers fitted will love the extra initial inrush current they can draw, seen as they pose an almost dead short characteristic untill the core is energised. I know this from experience after having witnessed the whole fuse holder top being blown off on a large power amp which had had its original fuse substituted with one of these "superior fuses", after the repair to the fuse holder, and the original type fuse replaced, the problem never returned, and the amp returned to performing as it it did before the fuse swap.
All i am saying is, just be aware of the posibilities, and consequences that could arise from fitting these things!
A...
Not to mention the fire risk if the "superior" fuses don't blow ....
anthonyTD
24-08-2015, 15:32
Indeed!
Not to mention the fire risk if the "superior" fuses don't blow ....
anthonyTD
24-08-2015, 15:38
There are safer ways of improving your mains supply, ie; cables, and connections, you would be surprised just how affective cleaning plugs and sockets can be, also,checking and re-tightening the cables inside consumer units, and mains sockets, although the latter should only be carried out by suitably qualified personnel.
Why risk your equipment, and posibly more for the sake of a quick fix!
A...
Stratmangler
24-08-2015, 16:24
If you don't know what you're playing with electrically then don't play with it.
The video is a pretty good illustration of why .....
q4GLrbJEDkI
anthonyTD
24-08-2015, 17:01
Good post chris,:)
Until a designer/manufacturer of these fuses can prove to me in a controlled test enviroment, that these things perform at least as well, safety wise, to the exact same rated standard fuse they are specified to replace, i will never condone the use of them!
There's a chalenge i would welcome with open arms.
A...
Was there an improvement or increase in the soundstage depth?
I ask as I am thinking to get 2 SR Red 13amp for UK adapters
I would recommend them. I can't comment if the red ones are worth the even greater premium.
PaulStewart
25-08-2015, 12:53
Sorry, but I've said it before, good quality cables and plugs, the correct value of fuse to keep the equipment safe is the way to go. To get they best result use a good quality fuse from Bussmann, clean the end caps and all the metal work in the blug with Dura-Glit and finally treat all conections with DeOxit, this includes the plug and socket. Way cheaper than boutique fuses and to my ears and others I've done this for, audibly indistinguishable forom the HiFi fuses.
anthonyTD
25-08-2015, 14:10
Totally agree Paul.
But its like talking to the wall sometimes! :doh:
Sorry, but I've said it before, good quality cables and plugs, the correct value of fuse to keep the equipment safe is the way to go. To get they best result use a good quality fuse from Bussmann, clean the end caps and all the metal work in the blug with Dura-Glit and finally treat all conections with DeOxit, this includes the plug and socket. Way cheaper than boutique fuses and to my ears and others I've done this for, audibly indistinguishable forom the HiFi fuses.
There are safer ways of improving your mains supply, ie; cables, and connections, you would be surprised just how affective cleaning plugs and sockets can be, also,checking and re-tightening the cables inside consumer units, and mains sockets, although the latter should only be carried out by suitably qualified personnel.
Why risk your equipment, and posibly more for the sake of a quick fix!
A...
Anthony, I would be interested in your views on the practice of replacing UK fused mains plugs with Schuko versions on component power cables, Albee it with a single 13A fuse in situ at the wall socket.
Hi Roger,
I'm sure that Anthony will be along shortly to answer your question.
However, in the meantime, let's not forget which fuses we're discussing. There's a difference between equipment case fuses, and using the audiophile versions of those, such was the original topic of this thread, and the 13A fuses in main plugs, which exist solely to protect the mains cable [the wire itself] powering equipment.
In that respect, fitting [un-fused] European Schuko plugs to the individual mains leads, powering your equipment, as long as those mains leads are used in conjunction with a mains distribution block, which itself is fitted with a fused 13A plug, at the wall socket, providing that all the equipment case fuses remain as standard, is perfectly safe - and indeed is what I do, with excellent results.
So, we're talking about two different things here: equipment case fuses, which Anthony is advocating shouldn't be messed around with, and fuses in 13A plugs, which in the right context (as outlined above) aren't really necessary, and indeed could be viewed as 'overkill'.
Marco.
Entirely aware Marco, However I remain curious, given Anthony's robust standing on equipment circuit fuses, as to his own considerations regarding un-fused componant PC's within a system utilising a single 13A fuse at point of ingress only.
Sure, and in due course Anthony will no doubt give you his thoughts on that :)
Marco.
anthonyTD
27-08-2015, 09:26
Hi Roger,
The 13amp fuse in the plug is only there to protect the cable, and its maximum current carrying capacity, its not there to protect any equipment connected to the cable! :)
Anthony, I would be interested in your views on the practice of replacing UK fused mains plugs with Schuko versions on component power cables, Albee it with a single 13A fuse in situ at the wall socket.
Hi Roger,
The 13amp fuse in the plug is only there to protect the cable, and its maximum current carrying capacity, its not there to protect any equipment connected to the cable! :)
Thank you Anthony, I am quite aware of the design functions of both the 13A and componant fusing within the context of a mains loom comprising Un-fused Schuko'd componant cables via distribution terminated via a single UK rated mains fuse at point of ingress, given your concerns expressed over the use of potentially non CE regulated equipment fuses (most commonly within a conventional all fused, UK mains plug loom ) I was merely curious as to you own stance on the implementation of the former configuration sporting a single 13A fuse within the whole loom?
anthonyTD
27-08-2015, 11:11
Hi Roger,
OK, Understood, well, if the cable used is all of the same current rating, then i cant see there being a problem with using one 13amp breaker source, after all, as i stated, the 13amp fuse is only there to protect the cabling, each piece of equipment should have its own correctly rated fuse fitted, for its own protection.
Hope that helps.:)
Thank you Anthony, I am quite aware of the design functions of both the 13A and componant fusing within the context of a mains loom comprising Un-fused Schuko'd componant cables via distribution terminated via a single UK rated mains fuse at point of ingress, given your concerns expressed over the use of potentially non CE regulated equipment fuses (most commonly within a conventional all fused, UK mains plug loom ) I was merely curious as to you own stance on the implementation of the former configuration sporting a single 13A fuse within the whole loom?
anthonyTD
27-08-2015, 12:01
Another alternative, and in my opinion, better than any "Trick" Fuse, is a resetable type.
By its very nature, a fuse is designed to be the weak link in the chain, its sole purpose is to break when it detects an over current, that' depending on the type of fuse fitted ie; T [time delay] S [slow blow] F [fast blow] is usualy many times the rated fuse value, so, by playing about with a fuses designed characteristics, you are affectively altering its ability to protect your equipment, when a posible fault occurs.
Anyone wanting to try these so called Hi FI devices, ask yourselve this, if a fuse makes enough diffrence for one to notice, what is it actualy doing, and how is it doing it!
Once you know the answers, i am pretty sure you will make the correct decision...
A...
Hi Roger,
OK, Understood, well, if the cable used is all of the same current rating, then i cant see there being a problem with using one 13amp breaker source, after all, as i stated, the 13amp fuse is only there to protect the cabling, each piece of equipment should have its own correctly rated fuse fitted, for its own protection.
Hope that helps.:)
Thank you for clarifying your position on this point Anthony, I have contemplated going a similar route myself , However I remain of the view that anyone contemplating running a power loom as outlined above would not be compliant within UK Regs, and should be well aware that an Insurance Assessor would not need to go as far as cracking open components checking for aftermarket fuses, when staring at a somewhat easier vehicle for dismissing ones claim!
Gordon Steadman
27-08-2015, 14:38
Over here of course, we have Shuko plugs and circuit breakers, no individual plug fuses. Plus all spurs not rings.
In spite of aural memory being decidedly dodgy, I am convinced that the system sounds better here than it did in the UK. Not just in one room but wherever it has been sited.
anthonyTD
27-08-2015, 16:24
Hi Roger,
I understand, and as i have stated, just like the RCD, or Fuse, or what ever one has in they're fuse box these days, its there to protect the circuit, and wiring, and not the appliance connected to it, there are i am sure, many on here who's HI FI electrical circuitry is shall we say' Questionable, as far as insurance purposes, or assessors are concerned, therefore, i always advise using common sense, and sound safety principles and practices, where wiring is concerned, and the individual protection of each and every piece of equipment connected to said mains supply, the rest is up to you and your own conscience!
Thank you for clarifying your position on this point Anthony, I have contemplated going a similar route myself , However I remain of the view that anyone contemplating running a power loom as outlined above would not be compliant within UK Regs, and should be well aware that an Insurance Assessor would not need to go as far as cracking open components checking for aftermarket fuses, when staring at a somewhat easier vehicle for dismissing ones claim!
Floyddroid
28-08-2015, 13:11
I'm with Ali on this one.
I'd go for 1.
I'm with Ali on this one.
After experimenting with a number of fuses I think you may be well correct Steve, although I did hear a drop in HF detail with the HIFI-Tuning supreme fuse?
anthonyTD
28-08-2015, 17:37
To be honest James,
I think it may be a combination of 1 and 2, but if i had to pick one outright, i am more inclined to go with 1.
A...
After experimenting with a number of fuses I think you may be well correct Steve, although I did hear a drop in HF detail with the HIFI-Tuning supreme fuse?
After further listening to the SR fuses I am very impressed. High frequencies are now never bright. Vocals are much clearer. The soundstage is much better defined. I can turn the volume up further by at least 2 notches.
I've done a lot to my mains supply and these fuses are the piece de resistance. FYI I have a NOS MK copper switchless double socket kindly supplied to me by loosend. Im also using a mains regenerator, furutech / oyaide mains block ,plugs, cables and iecs.
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