Reel to Reel newbie advice

[Idlewithnodrive]

I really fancy starting the reel to reel journey but don't have a clue where to start.

There are two main problems as I see it -

1/ I own no tapes.
2/ I know absolutely nothing about R 2 R

So any advice on cheap machines to consider or avoid, which format to use, where to buy tape, how to record, sources of info / idiot guides to read up on etc greatly appreciated. Anybody have a half decent starter deck they want to sell ?

I am really looking forward to this exciting new chapter in my hi-fi life but oh man am I a bit daunted by it all at the mo ?

Thanks for your help / sympathy in advance dudes :)

[DSJR]

This really is a dead technology now I think, so tapes are extremely expensive. Revox is ALWAYS a good bet and there are expert engineers out there able to service and set them up properly. Teac/Tascam may also be worthwhile too, as many were used by budding musicians worldwide.

As for cheaper machines at the other end of the domestic market, I have extensive experience of the Akai 4000DS and Sony TC377, which were once very popular. The Akai suffered from noisy electronics sadly, the Dolby version (4000DB) about as quiet in regards to playback hiss as the Sony 377 was without I remember.

Sony and Akai made some very heavy battleships which were rather lovely to use. Tandberg and the Logic 7 Ferrograph were good as well but may need some attention now (the Tandberg TD20A was enthused about here a few days ago, but my memories are tainted by a master tape being nearly shredded when an edit came apart when fast winding - Revox's never did this).

Loads of others in the pro market (a Revox B77 was the starting point) and prices may be ok. Many 'Pro' machines were thrashed to death, literally I think and I have memories of tales of very hard worked Studer A80's heads being run until the 15kHz tone on master tapes couldn't be eq'd to level. Only then were the heads replaced...

Maybe not helpful so apologies if not. Lovely things to look at working though but not much use otherwise unless you have stocks of pre recorded tapes to play...

[struth]

I have an Akai 4000d I think it is and a number of tapes. it works quite well and can sound rather good. Its not high end but it does work standing up and apart from the on off switch not working, has been fine all the time i had it. Took it out of service last year and may be about to sell it. Probably would need a service but not a bad start point. Ali Tait got a Tanburg recently and loves it to death, so I think there is plenty of life in them for hobbiests.
Hope you find a nice one you might be surprised at how good they can sound.

[The Barbarian]

One thing i would not be without, but i have down graded to a 7" machine..

[Audio Al]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-ultimate-master-of-master-recorders-Studer-A820-reel-to-reel-tape-recorder-/171755211357?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27fd688a5d

:eek:

[paskinn]

First things first. How serious are you.....a Revox b77' half track, high speed, is the best quality for sensibility money. Maximum quality but a lot of tape. Make sure it is in good condition because a reel to reel is very complex, full of precision parts. Revox is the best for spares. Don't do this in a half hearted way, you will then end up with a machine that is too mucgh hassle.
Franky if you do want a serius, reliable, machine, think upward of £750. A ten inch spool of new tape about £35. Bit like buying a fine vintage car, I love my machines, but this is not as simple as a record deck. Good luck.

[shane]

Another plug for Revox! Looking at your equipment list, the Akai 4000DS and Sony TC377 aren't really on the same level. To match what you have, you need to be thinking Revox, Tandberg, Ferrograph or possibly Pioneer (the RT707 is a tasty little beast).

You need to decide what you want to do wih it. If you're only gong to record from your existing sources, then a quarter-track machine will probably be OK on 7 1/2 ips, (3 3/4 is ok if you want to load up a half a dozen LPs for background music, but you've got a Squeezebox for that). If you want to have a go at live recording and really want to exploit the medium to the max, then go for a high speed half track machine. Basically the greater the area of tape going past the head every second, the wider the bandwidth and the lower the noise. A good R-R machine shouldn't need the interference of Dolby to achieve good results.

For live recording, a half-decent pair of microphones won't break the bank. I once did a recording of a local choir in a large church singing Faure's Requiem, using my A77 half-track on 7 1/2 ips with a pair of mid-range Sony electret mics, which nowadays would probably set you back £100 or so. OK, the singing was dire (!), but a simple crossed pair of mics captured the depth, width and height of the soundstage with an immediacy and "sense of occasion" the I've simple never heard from any commercial recording in any format.

Forget any idea of getting hold of decent pre-recorded tapes unless you're seriously wealthy. They were never widely sold, and any that are around now will either be knackered or unaffordable (and quite possibly both). If on the other hand you're seriously wealthy, then forget all the above, get yoyself a worked-over Technics RS1500 and pay these people a visit: http://tapeproject.com/

[Ali Tait]

I have a Tandberg TD20A which is a 1/4 track 7.5ips machine. Sounds superb to me, quiet as a mouse and easily as good as my vinyl, probably better if I did some live recording. I mostly use it for recording gigs on Sky Arts, stuff that isn't available any other way. Of particular note is the Songbook series, superb sound quality.

I took a punt on this machine on ebay and paid £175. I was expecting to have to do a lot of work to get it up to snuff, but I was lucky and got a machine in perfect working order, with very little wear on the heads. I have seen good ones go for $1800 or more on US Ebay.

From what I've read, this is one of the best sounding machines out there until you get up to the likes of Studer etc. Downside is parts availability, though I've managed to track down a Tandberg specialist near York, who apparently purchased the entire UK parts stock from Tandberg when they pulled out.

[shane]

Tandberg certainly were beautiful machines. Even their cassette deck was a bit tasty. Not much of their stuff around these days, sadly.

I'm probably being over-zealous recommending high speed half track. 7.5 quarter track will be fine for most needs. 3.75 will get a bit hissy and top-end limited though.

[The Barbarian]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-ultimate-master-of-master-recorders-Studer-A820-reel-to-reel-tape-recorder-/171755211357?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27fd688a5d

:eek:

Why do you people always go Pro equipment like that why? Does not impress me one single bit tbh.

[shane]

Here's one like Ali's.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/tandberg-td20a-4-track-REEL-TO-REEL-RECORDER-3-75-and-7-5-ips-/251900664696?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aa6731b78

[The Barbarian]

Na you don't want that you want an 'X10D' i much prefer them to the 'TD20'

WopElZmTajM

[shane]

and this could be a bargain. Only 2 hours to go though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Revox-A77-Reel-to-Reel-Stereo-Tape-recorder-quarter-track-4-/271833481737?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4a89c209

[The Barbarian]

Shane believe it or not the Uher i have sounded better than my old 'A77'..

[shane]

I can believe that easily, but Uhers are a bit thin on the ground!

Why the preference ro the X10D, Andre? Just being curious, as I'm not sufficiently familiar with either to form an opinion.

In case the OP is getting a little confused, any of the machines so far would be brilliant. It's a bit like arguing about Audi, Merc or BMW. People may have strong opinions, but any one of them is light-years ahead of a Ford Escort!

[Ali Tait]

Yep me too, must be bloody good if it's better than the 20.

[The Barbarian]

I think it sounds better to my ears. My two fav small Tandbergs were my old '6000X' & '9100'. 'X10D' is pretty much a larger reel version of the latter.

[Idlewithnodrive]

Thanks Folks, loads of info to consider; my brains already frazzled.:)

I am pretty serious in the long run, so if it works for me, a decent deck is quite possible. To see if it is for me, however, I'm looking for a fairly simple, easy to use starter deck, at say the £200 - 300 mark.

As I mentioned in my OP, I have NO tapes, so this will be a big handicap. How easy is it to tape music from CD or other digital medium onto tape and which would be the best tape format to use ? What sort of SQ can you achieve that way ? Does the reel size affect quality ?

Numpty questions I realise, but that's where I'm at with R2R :)

Thanks again; I appreciate the time you are taking to help out.

[Ali Tait]

Dead easy to tape, just connect the R to R to the tape in and outs on your pre/amp, set levels with the meters on the deck, and away you go. Exactly the same as using a cassette deck.

Not sure what you mean by tape format?

[Audio Al]

Na you don't want that you want an 'X10D' i much prefer them to the 'TD20'

WopElZmTajM

That unit looks like my 9100x machine

[Idlewithnodrive]

Dead easy to tape, just connect the R to R to the tape in and outs on your pre/amp, set levels with the meters on the deck, and away you go. Exactly the same as using a cassette deck.

Not sure what you mean by tape format?

I meant half track, quarter track etc, not that I know what that means.

[The Barbarian]

You want half track

[struth]

I meant half track, quarter track etc, not that I know what that means.

Half track will give better SQ but initially 1/4 is still pretty good and easier to find and gentler on the pocket.. Sony used to do a few decent ones too...

[The Barbarian]

Wrong thread Grant :D

Just to explain Half track uses the full width of the tape to record/play a stereo signal. Where as a Quarter track uses half the tape. The only plus point for Quarter track is you can flip the tape over & your ready to go with the other half of the tape. 7.5ips is better SQ tha 3.75ips.. but obviously even though the higher speed is better SQ you have less tape time available to record onto.

[paskinn]

Half track gives you twice the tape area for the signal, which in turn gives 3db lower noise. Doubling the speed gives similar results. So, a quarter track at 15ips will give you the same SN ratio as a half track at 7.5ips.
But there's a much more profound reason for using half-track....you can edit the tape without damaging another signal, as would be the case with quarter track. And I speak as a man who once did over a thousand physical edits on an hour long tape.
I would still advise sticking to machines for which parts are easily available. And that has to mean Revox. If you spend less buying a machine (A77 is good) you will almost certainly end up spending the difference on repairs and parts. These machines are usually over 30 years old, and they are highly complex. £200 will buy you a £200 machine, and that is pretty risky. Unless you are a good electrical diy guy. I'm not trying to put you off , but I have used these machines all my adult life. They are demanding to maintain well. Even 'little' things like gaskets and rubber pinch wheels can give a real headache.

[The Barbarian]

Revox are ok but if the heads are past re-lapping your talking more than the machines worth. Personally if you need a standard machine for the home id opt for a glass head Akai. They are a common machine & pretty reliable

[Ali Tait]

Otari would be another good choice.

[Ali Tait]

Half track will give better SQ but initially 1/4 is still pretty good and easier to find and gentler on the pocket.. Sony used to do a few decent ones too...

Assuming the deck is in good fettle. A well sorted 1/4 track will be better than a tired 1/2 methinks.

[337alant]

A well serviced and calibrated for the tape in use is capable f sounding every bit as good if not better than any modern source today :eyebrows:
I love the sound of R2R tape and cant see me ever being without one ;)
I have heard Alis Tandberg and it a mint condition and excellent sounding machine.

These are very nice machines
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Otari-mx-5050-reel-to-reel-2-track-/221742292685?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a0dedecd#ht_417wt_1275

I have 2 x Otari MX55 and these are excellent machines as well
The Tascam BR20 is one of the last R2Rs ever made so the most recent and they are excellent machines as well with a super smooth transport. I have 5 of these

I have a Revox A77 and PR99mk1, PR99mk2 they are all very good sounding machines the PR99 are the best bet to get now.
But the problem with the Revox machines now is they are full of 20-30 year old Frako electrolytic and Tantalum caps that are very leaky and sometime spectacularly fail short taking out other ICs
I have been completely recapping my A77 which didn't work at all when I got it but is now working but still not quite right so needs more work, My PR99 Mk2 sounds fab but still will need a full recap shortly, My PR99mk1 works but has very noisy switches which require a full strip down to get at the PCB to clean the tracks up so they are all a labour of love so be warned with the revox units IMO :rolleyes:.

Alan

[337alant]

Some pics of some of my machines :D


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7597/17170357991_69c53059d2_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/sahze2)IMG_2323 (https://flic.kr/p/sahze2) by 337alant (https://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8731/17170358801_842c29e30c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/sahzsZ)IMG_2322 (https://flic.kr/p/sahzsZ) by 337alant (https://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

Alan

[shane]

, I'm looking for a fairly simple, easy to use starter deck, at say the £200 - 300 mark.

A good machine is no harder to use than a rubbish one. You might as well go for a good one straight away, a crap one will only put you off the whole idea.



How easy is it to tape music from CD or other digital medium onto tape and which would be the best tape format to use ?

A bit more basic stuff. On the back of your Sony amp you'll find two sets of tape sockets, each comprising left & right in and left & right out, and on the front is a tape monitor switch with positions for source, tape one and tape two. There's also a tape copy switch. Ignore that, and ignore the sockets for tape two.

When you play music from any input on the amp, be it CD, phono, radio, Squeezebox or whatever, the signal from that input goes to the input selector switch and then to the volume control. Unbeknown to you until now, it also goes to the tape output sockets without going through the volume control.

Let's now look at your tape recorder, which also has a pair of input sockets which you connect to the tape out sockets on the amp, and a pair of output sockets which connect to tape in.

Now we need to look at what happens when you make a recording. Tape is fed from the feed reel, over the three heads, through the capstan and pinch roller which make sure the tape speed is constant, and onto the take-up reel. The first head is the erase head, which wipes whatever is on the tape already. Next comes the record head, which is fed from the input socket through a level control (like a volume control) and imprints the signal onto the tape as it goes past. Finally comes the playback head, which is used to play the tape back. When then rewind the tape and hit the play button, the erase and record heads are switched off and the playback head reads the signal off the tape and back to the amplifier.

Now comes the clever bit. When you're recording, the signal goes both to the amp's volume control and to the record head. A fraction of a second later the bit of tape you've just recorded goes past the playback head. If you now select "tape one" on the tape monitor switch, the amp's volume control is disconnected from the input selector swich and connected to the tape playback head via the tape input. This means that you are now listening to the recording you're making with a delay of about a third of a second, and can do a direct comparison between the source and the recording.


What sort of SQ can you achieve that way ? Does the reel size affect quality ?

The only difference between 7" and 10.5" reels is that 10.5" ones hold more tape!

A poor tape recorder could add hiss, restrict frequency response, cause speed fluctuations and reduce dynamic range. It could also suffer from drop-out (interruptions of playback caused by the tape losing contact with the heads) and could be mechanically noisy.

A perfect tape recorder will do none of those things. It will simply produce a signal that is indistinguishable from the input. No worse, but also no better.

Don't get bogged down too much with speed and tape width. Nearly all the Revoxes, Tandbergs and Ferroraphs you'll find for sale will do 7.5 ips and will be quarter track. They are good enough for all but the most demanding user, and the difference between them and their high speed half track versions is far lees than the drop in quality going down to the Akai 4000DS/Sony TC377 level. Tape is expensive nowadays, and a half track at 15ips is using it up four times faster!

There was a valid point made above about quarter track and editing, but you're not likely to get involved with razor blades and splicing tape unless you start getting serious about live recording.

[PaulStewart]

Good points Shane, but one point is that the first head not only erases, it also applies a bias signal to the tape. This signal puts the tapes magnetic coating into a state of flux and then the record head signal coerces the tape and that is the music or other signal that is then replayed. My point is that each tape formulation has a different requirement for bias and getting this set for ones chosen tape can really improve the dynamic range and top end performance of a recorder.

A well set up 1/2 track PR99 running at 15ips biased for and using Agfa PEM 468 will recorded up to 22kHz and can record a peak signal up to +7dB without distortion. Also, each tape has it's own eq curve, using a test tape and setting this up can enable amazing results. I set up my machine for every recording I make.

My advice is to get a Revox, A-77 to keep the price down or a B-77 if you can run to it, settle on a make of tape and get the machine set up for it. You will need an edit block and splicing tape with some leaders to keep the ends of you tape it good order. Good reel to reel can give you the best quality you will hear on your system.

[Ali Tait]

Wot he sez. Be a good idea to set the machine up for new tape, there are some companies still making it. I use RMG LPR 35. This is around 30 quid for 3600 feet, which will give you 90 mins a side at 7.5ips.

Some say old tape is better, but NOS stuff is getting to be silly money, daft to me when new can be had for less money.

[PaulStewart]

Some say old tape is better, but NOS stuff is getting to be silly money, daft to me when new can be had for less money.

Depends on the tape, steer well clear of old or NOS Ampex as this suffers from sticky binder syndrome and will coat your machine with oxide and destroy itself. It's a proplem that requires the tape to be low temperature baked and then copied. New tape is best in my opinion.

[337alant]

Very Good points shane ;)
When I tape from Digital Flac files I plug the DAC directly into the R2R input (XLR), cut out the pre amp you don't need it and you get a better recording. Most of my machines are set for an input level of 1.23Vrms so the DAC output comes out just right recording in CAL, with the older machines @ 0.775v rms the DAC can be a bit hot so I would use the pots to attenuate out of CAL

Agree with Paul give Ampex a wide birth I loved the 465 but I have thrown them all away now
I buy mainly Maxell XL1 its excellent tape
RMG tape is still sold and is very good also

Alan

[The Black Adder]

Depends on the tape, steer well clear of old or NOS Ampex as this suffers from sticky binder syndrome and will coat your machine with oxide and destroy itself. It's a proplem that requires the tape to be low temperature baked and then copied. New tape is best in my opinion.

+1 - Also Quantegy is also really awful stuff. You can get some Quantegy tape that is fine but towards the end of production the tape was generally simply not worth having, complete bin fodder. So finding a good NOS batch these days is pretty rare/impossible to find.

I recommend RMGI 911 Studio Master.

I bought it from here:
http://www.svsmedia.orangehome.co.uk/wa2a.htm#RANGE!B21

Great service/products.

[shane]

All good and valid points, but lets not lose sight of the fact that Mike is dipping his toe in the water for the first time and freely admits to having no knowledge of the subject at all. Let's not scare him off by making it seem more difficult to achieve good results than it really is. Yes, it's a good idea to settle on an ideal tape and have your machine calibrated for it, but providing he goes out and gets a half-decent machine in reasonable nick, he'll get an acceptable and rewarding result. The refinements can come later when the bug takes hold, as it surely will!

Alan, you posted your post whilst I was in the middle of writing mine, so I didn't see it until this morning. I seeth with envy.... :)

[The Black Adder]

All good and valid points, but lets not lose sight of the fact that Mike is dipping his toe in the water for the first time and freely admits to having no knowledge of the subject at all. Let's not scare him off by making it seem more difficult to achieve good results than it really is. Yes, it's a good idea to settle on an ideal tape and have your machine calibrated for it, but providing he goes out and gets a half-decent machine in reasonable nick, he'll get an acceptable and rewarding result. The refinements can come later when the bug takes hold, as it surely will!

Alan, you posted your post whilst I was in the middle of writing mine, so I didn't see it until this morning. I seeth with envy.... :)

:doh:

Not scaring him, Shane... lol Far from it, just giving him good sound advice.

Regardless of the deck he needs 'good tape' or else that deck will sound bad and need cleaning more often. Just those things can put a person off tape for good.

Tape isn't very expensive and good tape is essential to anyone regardless of the make/type of deck they have or get.

So I recommend that he buys some new tape (preferably RMGI) and enjoy.

[Idlewithnodrive]

:doh:

Not scaring him, Shane... lol Far from it, just giving him good sound advice.

Regardless of the deck he needs 'good tape' or else that deck will sound bad and need cleaning more often. Just those things can put a person off tape for good.

Tape isn't very expensive and good tape is essential to anyone regardless of the make/type of deck they have or get.

So I recommend that he buys some new tape (preferably RMGI) and enjoy.

Well, first stage is complete. I am now the proud (?) owner of a Revox A77 :) , if I can get it down from Derby.

So, let the fun / worry / idiocy really begin.

[Audio Al]

Well, first stage is complete. I am now the proud (?) owner of a Revox A77 :) , if I can get it down from Derby.

So, let the fun / worry / idiocy really begin.


This one ? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Revox-A77-Reel-to-Reel-Stereo-Tape-recorder-quarter-track-4-/271833481737?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4a89c209&nma=true&si=V3zgDYm%252FKGvSOGSCVAoNrvq67ao%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Good machine , I have one

[Idlewithnodrive]

This one ? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Revox-A77-Reel-to-Reel-Stereo-Tape-recorder-quarter-track-4-/271833481737?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4a89c209&nma=true&si=V3zgDYm%252FKGvSOGSCVAoNrvq67ao%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Good machine , I have one

Yep, that one :)

[shane]

Good choice! That one looked as though it had been well looked after. Bit of a bargain, I'd say.

[The Black Adder]

Well, first stage is complete. I am now the proud (?) owner of a Revox A77 :) , if I can get it down from Derby.

So, let the fun / worry / idiocy really begin.


lol... well done... A very nice deck indeedy. :)

[337alant]

Yes congratulations it looks in excellent condition, the obsession starts from here :D:lol:
The A77 takes 10.5" reels as well with hub adapters.
Enjoy

Alan

[Idlewithnodrive]

Yes congratulations it looks in excellent condition, the obsession starts from here :D:lol:
The A77 takes 10.5" reels as well with hub adapters.
Enjoy

Alan

As you would appear to be the AoS' tapemeister Alan, I think you will very soon become sick of me and my questions :)

[paskinn]

Good choice...the A77 is essentially the earlier version of the B77 minus the operational controls...they sound similar. Next step, buy yourself the operational manual and service manual. Or you might find them on the net. Invaluable. These machines don't make huge sense for recording cd and vinyl....too costly and awkward. A little digital recorder does a better job (sacrilege, but true). Get hold of some basic mikes, and record a local group. That's when the quality really comes through.
My B77 has been used to make some high speed masters, and they sound wonderful. It's a fun thing, and it is real fun! I also have a rather rare Ferrograph Logic Seven, fully rebuilt. The last big machines ever made in the UK. Sounds great but far more 'fussy' than a Revox, and harder to find spares. The A77 hs to be the best choice for you.....if only because of spares and serviceability.
The sound effects on Dark Side of the Moon were recorded on an A77. It has real history!

[The Barbarian]

I sold my Ferrograph 'Logic Seven' in january after a lot of money spent on it. tbh i did not really like using that machine as i did not the two standard Series Seven machines i also had. I don't have a pickkie of the Logic Seven but here's one of my old 'Series Seven' machines..


http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w425/ELPFAN1968/S7RR.jpg (http://s1075.photobucket.com/user/ELPFAN1968/media/S7RR.jpg.html)

[Idlewithnodrive]

Good choice...the A77 is essentially the earlier version of the B77 minus the operational controls...they sound similar. Next step, buy yourself the operational manual and service manual. Or you might find them on the net. Invaluable. These machines don't make huge sense for recording cd and vinyl....too costly and awkward. A little digital recorder does a better job (sacrilege, but true). Get hold of some basic mikes, and record a local group. That's when the quality really comes through.
My B77 has been used to make some high speed masters, and they sound wonderful. It's a fun thing, and it is real fun! I also have a rather rare Ferrograph Logic Seven, fully rebuilt. The last big machines ever made in the UK. Sounds great but far more 'fussy' than a Revox, and harder to find spares. The A77 hs to be the best choice for you.....if only because of spares and serviceability.
The sound effects on Dark Side of the Moon were recorded on an A77. It has real history!

Thanks Peter. I'm well pleased, as it looks like I might have inadvertently made a really good choice :)

[The Barbarian]

Good Price that Mike for a Mk.4

[Idlewithnodrive]

Thanks Andr'e

[The Barbarian]

Id pop it into Brian Reeves for a proper service.. How far is Cheshire from you?

[Idlewithnodrive]

Unfortunately, over 150 miles each way Andr'e

[PaulStewart]

Well done Mike great choice, I have two A77s one like yours and a high speed 1/2 track. If you need any work doing on your machine, Henry Dulat is in Fetcham and he is really good. He did one of my PR99s and it's really well sorted, so I will be taking the rest to him in due course. Best advice is to get a manual and a test tape and learn how to set the machine up yourself. Enjoy it :)

[Idlewithnodrive]

Thanks Paul. I'm really looking forward to getting it now :)

[337alant]

As you would appear to be the AoS' tapemeister Alan, I think you will very soon become sick of me and my questions :)

LOL no problem I never get tired of talking about reel 2 reel Mike so if I can be of any help ask away
Do you have any tape?

Alan

[Ali Tait]

I bought tape here, a "pancake" which is a reel of tape without a metal or plastic spool, so you need to have some empty reels to fit it into-

https://m.thomann.de/gb/rmg_lpr_35_14_1100m_nab_kern.htm?ref=mpd_aa_4

[Idlewithnodrive]

LOL no problem I never get tired of talking about reel 2 reel Mike so if I can be of any help ask away
Do you have any tape?

Alan

I am sure I shall need plenty of help Alan; you might regret offering your services :)

The deck came with some pre-recorded tape and I think 2 reels of blank tape but I have no idea if it is usable. How would I tell ?

I also love the look of some of the 10 1/2 ? Inch metal reels. Might as well make it look the part; :) shallow I know. Where is the best place to get those ?

[Ali Tait]

Ebay, or have a look at Gumtree.

[The Barbarian]

There was this Seller in Turkey selling NAB Adaptors for Revox, they looked good too.

[Idlewithnodrive]

Idiot alert :)

What are NAB adaptors and do I need them ? :)

[Audio Al]

Idiot alert :)

What are NAB adaptors and do I need them ? :)

They adapt the small 3 finned spool holder you have now to the big 10 1/2 " reels

like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Revox-NAB-Hub-adapters-/181716899111?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4f2bd527

[Idlewithnodrive]

Excellent, thanks.

Looks like I'll need to add some NAB Adaptors to the equation as well then. Could get expensive, this tape malarkey.

[Audio Al]

Could get expensive, this tape malarkey.

It will :lol:

Pace yourself ;)

[337alant]

Idiot alert :)

What are NAB adaptors and do I need them ? :)

You only need them with 10.5" reels
I have a couple old metal reels I don't use and you are welcome to them FOC just PM me your address.
Clean the tape heads and guides then play the tape , FF and REW if it has sticky shed there will be a collection of oxide on the guides and heads sometimes you will hear squealing
and FF/REW will slow right down



https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7480/15835124091_36613cf465_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/q8i9GT)sticky2 (https://flic.kr/p/q8i9GT) by 337alant (https://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr


Alan

[StanleyB]

Hi Mike, I have just been given an Akai 4000 plus a box of tapes by an elderly gentlemen to dispose of in a manner of my choice. I was actually thinking of offering it to anyone who is willing to make a sensible donation to the British Heart Foundation. Bedfordshire is not that far from me. So if you fancy giving it a consideration and you can pick it up, PM me. If you need some pics I can take sort that out.

[Audio Advent]

What's on the tapes? Anything interesting like home recordings (or just music).

[The Barbarian]

Akai '4000' were a good little machine regardless of what the big heads say. Millions of these were sold to more than happy customers. They still hold used prices..

[struth]

Mine still sounds pretty good

[The Barbarian]

Ive gots piles of 7" Tapes i bought as NOS they will be going up for grabs soon..

[struth]

interesting should I ever decide to get it back into operation. it will be getting moved indoors soon so might have a look at it.

[337alant]

Ok 2 x 10.5" reels in the post one blank and one is a Ampex 456 but dont panic the tape on it is Zonal 675 and is new and unused as far as I remember, this is good tape so give it a go for recording something :)
Its a pity I don't have a calibrated 4 track recorder ATM or I would have recorded something on it for you virtually all my R2Rs are 2 track

Alan

[The Barbarian]

Alan
I got piles of sealed Racal Zonal 'RZ' tape ive never used, you ever used it? It's dated 1990!

[337alant]

Alan
I got piles of sealed Racal Zonal 'RZ' tape ive never used, you ever used it? It's dated 1990!
Andre
No I haven't used that one before?, I have used the Zonal 675 and 840 both excellent especially the 675 which I believe the BBC used to use like

Alan

[Idlewithnodrive]

Ok 2 x 10.5" reels in the post one blank and one is a Ampex 456 but dont panic the tape on it is Zonal 675 and is new and unused as far as I remember, this is good tape so give it a go for recording something :)
Its a pity I don't have a calibrated 4 track recorder ATM or I would have recorded something on it for you virtually all my R2Rs are 2 track

Alan

Thanks very much Alan; very generous.

Record something ? Reading up on these machines (too much :help:) over the weekend, it seems like it will be a miracle if I have one that even works !!

[337alant]

Thanks very much Alan; very generous.

Record something ? Reading up on these machines (too much :help:) over the weekend, it seems like it will be a miracle if I have one that even works !!

No problem

Fingers crossed :D

Alan

[Lodgesound]

Hi there;

If you need test material I can make backup copies of material you own to extremely high standards on quarter inch tape.

My machines are calibrated to each piece of tape loaded.

[337alant]

Hi there;

If you need test material I can make backup copies of material you own to extremely high standards on quarter inch tape.

My machines are calibrated to each piece of tape loaded.

Stewart,
All my MRLs are IEC but I was considering buying NAB @ 7.5ips and 15ips if I sent you a 7" Maxell tape would you be able to record the following;-
50hz,100hz, 400hz, 1K, 10K 16K 22K @ both speeds?
No problem if you dont have them but I would also be willing to pay for the service
Alan

[Lodgesound]

Hi Alan;

Yes no problem - PM me...

[337alant]

Thanks very much Alan; very generous.

Record something ? Reading up on these machines (too much :help:) over the weekend, it seems like it will be a miracle if I have one that even works !!

Think positive, it might work :rolleyes::rolleyes::D

Alan

[Idlewithnodrive]

Ok 2 x 10.5" reels in the post one blank and one is a Ampex 456 but dont panic the tape on it is Zonal 675 and is new and unused as far as I remember, this is good tape so give it a go for recording something :)
Its a pity I don't have a calibrated 4 track recorder ATM or I would have recorded something on it for you virtually all my R2Rs are 2 track

Alan

Hi Alan,

The reels and tape landed safe and sound, so a massive thanks for that.

The player arrives tomorrow, so could be an interesting / amazing / disastrous (delete as appropriate) weekend ahead :)

[337alant]

Good luck hope its a good machine :)
You will need Nab adapters to use the 10.5" reels though and those things are no cheap :scratch:

Alan

[Idlewithnodrive]

Well, it's landed and all seems to be well.

It's in good condition, given it's age, although the VU meters or power light don't illuminate, so the visual aspect is a bit disappointing.

Been listening to a classical 7" tape that came with the machine and it actually sounds pretty good. Most obvious is the dynamics which are impressive and that lovely smooth analogue quality to the music. I think I could quite get to like this :)

There is a very slight, low level sort of ticking sound every couple of seconds from the tape leaving the left hand reel but it can't be heard when the music is playing and barely when it isn't, so it looks as if I could have a good one.

Now to clean it up, invest in some NAB hub adaptors and fit the 10.5" reels.

Does anybody know how easy the bulbs are to replace for the VU meters / power button ?

Anybody got some NAB hub adaptors for sale cheap ?

[Idlewithnodrive]

Well, I've done some taping now (the VU lights do work) and plenty of listening and it really is rather good, very good actually.

Great fun; I think I'm going to rather like this R2R malarkey :)

[Audio Al]

Well, I've done some taping now (the VU lights do work) and plenty of listening and it really is rather good, very good actually.

Great fun; I think I'm going to rather like this R2R malarkey :)

WARNING , It DOES get addictive ;) when you machine count starts rising , don't ask how I know :D

[Idlewithnodrive]

How do you know Al ?

[Audio Al]

How do you know Al ?

:o

[Idlewithnodrive]

?

[Audio Al]

OK

Otari MX 55

Revox A77

Tandberg 9100x

Tascam 22-2

Akai 4000DS

Ferrograph Series 7

Sony TC530

I think thats it , apart from 4 off 8 track players and about 10 Cassette decks :)

Maybe on the up depending on tomorrows boot sale if its not raining ;)

[Idlewithnodrive]

OK

Otari MX 55

Revox A77

Tandberg 9100x

Tascam 22-2

Akai 4000DS

Ferrograph Series 7

Sony TC530

I think thats it , apart from 4 off 8 track players and about 10 Cassette decks :)

Maybe on the up depending on tomorrows boot sale if its not raining ;)

You are "officially" a madman :)

[Audio Al]

Opps ! :o

Missed one out :doh:


Akai GX635D :)

[337alant]

Opps ! :o

Missed one out :doh:


Akai GX635D :)

Some very nice R2Rs there Al :eyebrows:
I don't think its madness :mental: at all they really are a very good sounding source and I just love to watch those reels going round, its therapeutic :D

Alan

[Idlewithnodrive]

As is often the case, it doesn't exist without pictures; so here is a pic of the much talked about deck in situ.


http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac143/TheMJMan/CIMG5098_zpshsvsrd0d.jpg


Not in bad condition at all and other than the power indicator seems to work perfectly :)

[Ali Tait]

Aye, looks in good nick.

[struth]

A couple of alloy reels on and it'll look the dogs doodas :lol:

[Audio Al]

As is often the case, it doesn't exist without pictures

Do I have to provide photos of my machines :scratch:

:)

[PaulStewart]

I'm telling you I'm not addicted to Revoxes, I can give them up anytime I want to, I mean it started many years ago with an A-77 high speed and then well it just sort of happened. But I only have seven and only three have remotes.......... Sigh - OK, Hello my name is Doc and I have a ReVox addiction, but I haven't bought one since Friday and I only got two then :laugh:

[Idlewithnodrive]

A couple of alloy reels on and it'll look the dogs doodas :lol:

Think I'm just going to have to fork out for the Thomann ones :scratch:

[struth]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-FABOLOUS-REVOX-LOGO-NAB-HUB-METAL-REEL-TO-REELS-10-5-X-1-4-/271845347505?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4b3ed0b1

these would be nice; still have to get hubs unless you are sorted there.

[337alant]

Think I'm just going to have to fork out for the Thomann ones :scratch:

Yes the TEAC 1/4" ones are the best IMO and new from Thomann
http://www.thomann.de/gb/tascam_tape_accessories.html

Alan